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Sex Education in schools.
 
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On another thread a couple posters including me, said we favored sex ed in schools.  Others disagreed.    I thought I would start a new thread about sex education with the hope that it could be discussed without clouding the issue with candidate politics. 

 

 

I favor sex ed in schools because teen pregnancy can create havoc in people’s lives.  STDs, especially HIV, can kill people.  I understand that parents should teach their children this and they should make sure they know that condoms work and where to get them.  However, often parents don’t.  I discussed birth control and STDs rather uncomfortably with my kids even though they learned about it in school.  I think children shouldn’t have to suffer unnecessarily because their parents dropped the ball.  The school made my kids bring a parent signature to learn about diseases that can kill you and how prevent to that.  I think sex Ed ought to be mandatory I want the guys my daughters date to have that knowledge as well. 

 

It seems to me that you could do a lot of good by putting a condom vending machine in the school bathroom. 

 

One poster in the other suggested that sex ed classes in schools are a joke. I don’t have experience with those classes.   I was hoping some of you that have had experience with that could elaborate one way or another.

 

 

  some editing

 

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I do not support sex-ed in school.

 

First, sex isn't relevant to our lives.  I personally don't know anyone that has had it, and it has nothing to do with how I came into existence.

 

Second, education is about learning.  We divide our learning curriculum into liberal-arts (should be called conservative arts), mathematics, and science.  Sex is not science, it has nothing to do with basic principles of biology.

 

Furthermore, if we expose our kids to sex, it increases the likelyhood they will one day have it and spread the species.

 

Having sex is like strumming Satan's guitar.  It only takes one strum to go to hell.

 
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My uber overlord TBM mother and father yanked me from sex ed classes after they previewed the movies that would be shown to me if I took the classes.  Oh my, too much information for Junior (me) to have at such a tender young age.

 

I was 14.  Basically, I grew up in a bubble... a bubble of sexual repression (and opression if you think about it) and I am still suffering from the effects to some degree.

 

So I could not tell you what the deal is about sex ed in school. 

 

Personally, I think knowledge is power.

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I honestly don't think sex ed in schools do much good. Its up to the parents to teach their children. My high school offered some insights in health class, but health class was only 6 weeks long anyways. I don't remember any of it. My parents tried scaring me with lies instead of talking to me about sex. Teens are going to do what they want to do, no one at school will change their mind. But if they feel close and trustworthy to their parents they might think twice.
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needbfree:
I honestly don't think sex ed in schools do much good. Its up to the parents to teach their children. My high school offered some insights in health class, but health class was only 6 weeks long anyways. I don't remember any of it. My parents tried scaring me with lies instead of talking to me about sex. Teens are going to do what they want to do, no one at school will change their mind. But if they feel close and trustworthy to their parents they might think twice.

 

  I agree that teens are going to do what they want to do.  I do think more of them are going to do it with rubber with a little sex Ed..   Six weeks seems like plenty of time to me.

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Hiker r:
needbfree:
I honestly don't think sex ed in schools do much good. Its up to the parents to teach their children. My high school offered some insights in health class, but health class was only 6 weeks long anyways. I don't remember any of it. My parents tried scaring me with lies instead of talking to me about sex. Teens are going to do what they want to do, no one at school will change their mind. But if they feel close and trustworthy to their parents they might think twice.

 

  I agree that teens are going to do what they want to do.  I do think more of them are going to do it with rubber with a little sex Ed..   Six weeks seems like plenty of time to me.

 

 It's not just sex ed.  There needs to be available contraceptives for these students.

 
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WHAT ABOUT ABSTINENCE?

by Robert Layton

 

I was holding a notice from my 13-year-old son's school announcing a meeting to preview the new course in sexuality. Parents could examine the curriculum and take part in an actual lesson presented exactly as it would be given to the students.

When I arrived at the school, I was surprised to discover only about a dozen parents there. As we waited for the presentation, I thumbed through page after page of instructions in the prevention of pregnancy or disease. I found abstinence mentioned only in passing. When the teacher arrived with the school nurse, she asked if there were any questions. I asked why abstinence did not play a noticeable part in the material.

What happened next was shocking. There was a great deal of laughter, and someone suggested that if I thought abstinence had any merit, I should go back to burying my head in the sand. The teacher and the nurse said nothing as I drowned in a sea of embarrassment. My mind had gone blank, and I could think of nothing to say.

The teacher explained to me that the job of the school was to teach "facts," and the home was responsible for moral training. I sat in silence for the next 20 minutes as the course was explained. The other parents seemed to give their unqualified support to the materials.

"Donuts, at the back," announced the teacher during the break. "I'd like you to put on the name tags we have prepared -- they're right by the donuts -- and mingle with the other parents." Everyone moved to the back of the room.

As I watched them affixing their name tags and shaking hands, I sat deep in thought. I was ashamed that I had not been able to convince them to include a serious discussion of abstinence in the materials. I uttered a silent prayer for guidance.

My thoughts were interrupted by the teacher's hand on my shoulder. "Won't you join the others, Mr. Layton?" The nurse smiled sweetly at me. "The donuts are good."

"Thank you, no," I replied.

"Well, then, how about a name tag? I'm sure the others would like to meet you."

"Somehow I doubt that," I replied.

"Won't you please join them?" she coaxed.

Then I heard a still, small voice whisper, "Don't go." The instruction was unmistakable. "Don't go!"

"I'll just wait here," I said.

When the class was called back to order, the teacher looked around the long table and thanked everyone for putting on name tags. She ignored me. Then she said, "Now we're going to give you the same lesson we'll be giving your children. Everyone please peel off your name tags." I watched in silence as the tags came off. "Now, then, on the back of one of the tags, I drew a tiny flower. Who has it, please?"

The gentleman across from me held it up. "Here it is!"

"All right," she said. "The flower represents disease. Do you recall with whom you shook hands?" He pointed to a couple of people. "Very good," she replied. "The handshake in this case represents intimacy. So the two people you had contact with now have the disease."

There was laughter and joking among the parents. The teacher continued, "And whom did the two of You shake hands with?"

The point was well taken, and she explained how this lesson would show students how quickly disease is spread. "Since we all shook hands, we all have the disease."

It was then that I heard the still, small voice again. "Speak now", it said, "but be humble." I noted wryly the latter admonition, then rose from my chair. I apologized for any upset I might have caused earlier, congratulated the teacher on an excellent lesson that would impress the youth, and concluded by saying I had only one small point I wished to make. "Not all of us were infected," I said. "One of us ... abstained."

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I'm a "no." 

 

But I just posted on that other thread that it's been a crappy day, and I'm in a mood.

 

I'll hang around for a while to read, but I promise to refrain from posting anything else until tomorrow lest I write some more stuff I regret. 

 

Hugs to Everyone!

 

Love, Tonto

 
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I feel that parent SHOULD discuss sex ed at home, but I know that many do not. So the educational system has to pick up the slack. Studies are showing that sex education doesn't increase sexual activity, but instead, decreases unwanted pregnancy and the spread of STD's. I think it's Sweden that has high end sex-ed programs, and the lowest pregnancy rate.

 

Now, of course there's a lot more to sex than preventing STD's and pregnancy, and the schools cannot really touch the emotional aspects very well. This is definitely a parent's role to fill. If they do, I think the kids have a win-win situation. If they don't, you have better educated kids re: sex, but who lack some of the important emotional tools re: sex.

 

Not a black/white issue... like most things in life.

 

-Heather

 

 

 

 

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Hiker r:
needbfree:
I honestly don't think sex ed in schools do much good. Its up to the parents to teach their children. My high school offered some insights in health class, but health class was only 6 weeks long anyways. I don't remember any of it. My parents tried scaring me with lies instead of talking to me about sex. Teens are going to do what they want to do, no one at school will change their mind. But if they feel close and trustworthy to their parents they might think twice.

 

  I agree that teens are going to do what they want to do.  I do think more of them are going to do it with rubber with a little sex Ed..   Six weeks seems like plenty of time to me.

 

 I remember my guy friends who thought it was so cool to have condoms on hand, lol. But they never used it. I remember my senior year in HS, I tried pushing my then bf into having sex, but I guess he was smarter than that, lol. Schools aren't going to hand out condoms, parents would be so mad if they felt the schools were encouraging sex. Thats why its up to the parents to teach their children what they want them to know. If you are going to have sex, then use a condom. Or for girls, I get on the pill, but my tbm parents didn't know, lol. 

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Plain and simple it's biology and it should be taught in school.

 

Sex-ed should be a joint effort that both parents and schools do together. Let kids know they have a safe place to go on either turf.

 

My kids are young still but I've talked about it for a while now. I do age appropriate talk especially if the subject comes up. Recently I showed some of the kids this little ditty http://www.planetdan.net/pics/babies/index.htm plain simple and to the point. They understood it and I don't have to go into details of how to prevent it just yet but I am certainly prepared.

 

You can't always leave it up to parents to teach the proper knowledge of STD protection or pregnancy protection if they only believe in abstinence. look how well it turned out for Palin's family. I know far too many LDS teen mom's because they didn't understand the basics of sex and pregnancy prevention! MAYBE if their school taught just the basics of prevention while the parents just taught abstinence then the teens wouldn't have become pregnant (not saying they wouldn't have had sex because you can't stop people from doing what they want to).

 

My mom was an LDS teen and pregnant at 16 married by 17 and a mom 3 months before she was 18. My LDS sisters - one got lucky and only had a pregnancy "scare", the other had a couple of secret abortions. I had an LDS roommate who was being raised by grandparents who got tired of her getting pregnant and then having abortions. After her 3rd abortion they kicked her out into the real world at 17 because they thought it was "for the best". Really they just didn't want the little heathen anymore.

 

She was SO ill equip for the "real world" that (while I was no expert I did have sex-ed in school and I LOVED listening to Love Line with Dr. Drew and Adam Corolla; where I got a much better understanding of sex and the implications of it, oddly enough) she asked me if she could get pregnant if the guy pulls out and just cvms on her on the outside! I was shocked! Apparently the 3 abortions didn't teach this girl a damn thing and neither did the abstinence only teaching through her LDS parents and grandparents. All she knew is that it felt good and an abortion got rid of an unwanted baby! I at least knew that she indeed could get pregnant that way and told her she needed to use condoms. Her response was "But it doesn't feel as good." WTF?!?! (this was in AZ where it is largely LDS too)

 

Getting second hand information from friends, or "hoping" parents will actually TEACH sex-ed is irresponsible if the government is the one paying for these mistakes in the end.

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Nogginus Skepticalus:

My uber overlord TBM mother and father yanked me from sex ed classes after they previewed the movies that would be shown to me if I took the classes.  Oh my, too much information for Junior (me) to have at such a tender young age.

 

I was 14.  Basically, I grew up in a bubble... a bubble of sexual repression (and opression if you think about it) and I am still suffering from the effects to some degree.

 

So I could not tell you what the deal is about sex ed in school. 

 

Personally, I think knowledge is power.

 

By the time my children needed the talk from me, I was still confused about sexuality and did not know what to tell them.  When my daughter became sexually active with her boyfriend in high school, she had the presence of mind to go to Planned Parenthood by herself and get contraceptives.  Where did she get her informations?   Sex education?

 
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Lilith:

Plain and simple it's biology and it should be taught in school.

 

Sex-ed should be a joint effort that both parents and schools do together. Let kids know they have a safe place to go on either turf.

 


 

I agree with the above statement whole heartedly.  If the sex education in your child's school isn't "up to par" in your opinion, then you need to supplement it.  Problem is, most parents don't.  They are too tired, too stress and too embarrassed to even go there with their kids.  Some children get nothing at all from their parents, so they should at least get the basics from school, even if it isn't that great - its better than nothing.  

 

Kids are curious about sex and if they don't learn about it from you or school, they will learn about it from Billy across the street - and Billy probably doesn't know many "truths" and he probably learned it from Fred around the corner...and so on....

 

My parents had me read the book "Where Did I Come From" when I was about 8 years old.  It was awesome, answered all the questions and explained all the details about ACTUAL SEXUAL INTERCOURSE, and then proceeded to talk about pregnancy and the gestation of the baby etc...  I used this exact same book to teach my own daughter (who will be 8 in a few months) about sex.  She had lots of questions and my husband and I answered all of them, even the most embarrassing ones.  At this point, the idea of sex is gross to her and I told her that is because its for grown-ups, not kids - and she thinks thats just fine.  She knows she can come to us with any questions she might have and we will answer them honestly.  Will she always come to us?  Probably not.  But at least I can feel good knowing that I told her the real deal from an early age.

 

We are a sexual society that is completely afraid to talk about sex!  I for one think that it is maddening that so many people (women mostly) have sexual issues, problems having orgasms, etc...  We need to shed our fear of it and be open and honest about it - even with our children.  No one wants to fathom their children as sexual beings, but if you live with blinders on, well, you will be blind!

 

 

 

 

 
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As someone who has taught sex education at the HS level, I wish I could say that abstinence works.  The reality is, it has an incredibly tough time competing with teenage hormones. 

 

When I taught sex ed (and I admit it was several years ago), I did stress abstinence.  But I also gave them the cold hard facts and real information -- which, by a show of their own hands, most had not gotten at home.  (Because, in my opinion, many parents are too embarrassed to discuss sex with their kids.  For some reason, even I found it easier to teach a class of students than my own kids!)  And it's appalling to me how many parents still believe "if I don't mention it, it won't happen."  

 

Lilith, your examples aren't unusual.  Sometimes the misinformation the kids swore was true made me gasp/cry/laugh/all-of-the-above while trying to keep a straight face.  Some examples:

 

All women start their cycles on the first day of each month -- that's how we got our calendars.

You can't get pregnant if you only have sex in the middle of your cycle.

You can get AIDS by donating blood.

If a girl only has oral sex, she won't get any diseases.

You can get most STDs from toilet seats. 

If a guy jacks off before a date, the girl won't get pregnant cause all the sperm are used up. 

If you douche right after, you can wash all the sperm out. 

  

   And I could go on....

 

Good sex ed needs a good teacher and good parents, IMHO.

 

 

 

 

 
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Tonto:

I'm a "no." 

 

But I just posted on that other thread that it's been a crappy day, and I'm in a mood.

 

I'll hang around for a while to read, but I promise to refrain from posting anything else until tomorrow lest I write some more stuff I regret. 

 

Hugs to Everyone!

 

Love, Tonto

 I respect your opinion Tonto.  I started this thread hoping that informed people like you would chime in about what works in sex ed and what doesn't work.  

 

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Mountain Girl:

 

As someone who has taught sex education at the HS level, I wish I could say that abstinence works.  The reality is, it has an incredibly tough time competing with teenage hormones. 

 

When I taught sex ed (and I admit it was several years ago), I did stress abstinence.  But I also gave them the cold hard facts and real information -- which, by a show of their own hands, most had not gotten at home.  (Because, in my opinion, many parents are too embarrassed to discuss sex with their kids.  For some reason, even I found it easier to teach a class of students than my own kids!)  And it's appalling to me how many parents still believe "if I don't mention it, it won't happen."  

 

Lilith, your examples aren't unusual.  Sometimes the misinformation the kids swore was true made me gasp/cry/laugh/all-of-the-above while trying to keep a straight face.  Some examples:

 

All women start their cycles on the first day of each month -- that's how we got our calendars.

You can't get pregnant if you only have sex in the middle of your cycle.

You can get AIDS by donating blood.

If a girl only has oral sex, she won't get any diseases.

You can get most STDs from toilet seats. 

If a guy jacks off before a date, the girl won't get pregnant cause all the sperm are used up. 

If you douche right after, you can wash all the sperm out. 

  

   And I could go on....

 

Good sex ed needs a good teacher and good parents, IMHO.

 

 

 

 

 that makes sense to me.  I don't why people would treat sex differently than other aspects of human life.  Parents should teach kids how to look both ways before they cross the street.  It is very important and is a matter of life and death.  the fact that it is my responsibility to teach my kids doesn't mean repetition at school won't help them.  I think the same thing applies to sex.  It is going to be a part of everyone's life at some point.  It should not be a taboo subject in my opinion.

 

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I'd like the materials sent home and the education done there where your kid can ask questions and you can find answers if you don't know them already. It is embarrassing to take the class with your peers I think.
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Hiker r:

 that makes sense to me.  I don't why people would treat sex differently than other aspects of human life.  Parents should teach kids how to look both ways before they cross the street.  It is very important and is a matter of life and death.  the fact that it is my responsibility to teach my kids doesn't mean repetition at school won't help them.  I think the same thing applies to sex.  It is going to be a part of everyone's life at some point.  It should not be a taboo subject in my opinion.

 

 

 The morg makes it a taboo subject, starting at a very young age kids are taught not to play with themselves.  Then the porn taboo is drilled into their heads.  On and on it goes.  I really dislike what the church does to young men and women to condition them to believe that sex is for proecreation and the women's place is in the home making babies.  

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Mountain Girl:

 

As someone who has taught sex education at the HS level, I wish I could say that abstinence works.  The reality is, it has an incredibly tough time competing with teenage hormones. 

 

When I taught sex ed (and I admit it was several years ago), I did stress abstinence.  But I also gave them the cold hard facts and real information -- which, by a show of their own hands, most had not gotten at home.  (Because, in my opinion, many parents are too embarrassed to discuss sex with their kids.  For some reason, even I found it easier to teach a class of students than my own kids!)  And it's appalling to me how many parents still believe "if I don't mention it, it won't happen."  

 

Good sex ed needs a good teacher and good parents, IMHO.

 

 

Here's an excellent study of the relationship between religion and social ills.

Which concludes,  in summary, that higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator and lower rates of acceptance of the theory of evolution, correlate with higher rates of social ills, like homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion in the prosperous democracies, like the US.

"The United States' deep social problems are all the more disturbing because the nation enjoys exceptional per capita wealth among the major western nations (Barro and McCleary; Kasman; PEW; UN Development Programme, 2000, 2004). Spending on health care is much higher as a portion of the GDP and per capita, by a factor of a third to two or more, than in any other developed democracy (UN Development Programme, 2000, 2004). The U.S. is therefore the least efficient western nation in terms of converting wealth into cultural and physical health. Understanding the reasons for this failure is urgent, and doing so requires considering the degree to which cause versus effect is responsible for the observed correlations between social conditions and religiosity versus secularism. It is therefore hoped that this initial look at a subject of pressing importance will inspire more extensive research on the subject. Pressing questions include the reasons, whether theistic or non-theistic, that the exceptionally wealthy U.S. is so inefficient that it is experiencing a much higher degree of societal distress than are less religious, less wealthy prosperous democracies. Conversely, how do the latter achieve superior societal health while having little in the way of the religious values or institutions? There is evidence that within the U.S. strong disparities in religious belief versus acceptance of evolution are correlated with similarly varying rates of societal dysfunction, the strongly theistic, anti-evolution south and mid-west having markedly worse homicide, mortality, STD, youth pregnancy, marital and related problems than the northeast where societal conditions, secularization, and acceptance of evolution approach European norms (Aral and Holmes; Beeghley, Doyle, 2002). It is the responsibility of the research community to address controversial issues and provide the information that the citizens of democracies need to chart their future courses."


The nomination of "Abstinence Only" Sex ed advocate, Gov. Sarah Palin by McCain, and the subsequent revelation that her 17 y.o. daughter is pregnant, by her teenage b.f., is a perfect illustration of this study's conclusions, that stigmatizing condom use and other proven birth/STD control measures with religious dogma, which advocates far less effective "abstinence only " solutions, has resulted in the increase in social ills in the US, like teenage pregnancy, out of wedlock births and STD's. 

The federal government now wastes $176 annually on ineffective "abstinence only" programs with millions more spent every year state and local matching grants.

Abstinence-only education, a cornerstone of the Bush Administration social policy, has been criticized in official statements by the American Psychological Association,[15] the American Medical Association,[16] the National Association of School Psychologists,[17] the Society for Adolescent Medicine,[18] the American College Health Association,[18] the American Academy of Pediatrics,[19] and the American Public Health Association,[20] which all maintain that sex education needs to be comprehensive to be effective.
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FYI: My first post was satirical...

 

 
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I would support sex ed to be taught in our schools, and as a parent I would like to view the curriculum in order to know know what my children are being taught and where I might need to supplement.  Maybe there are good reasons that I just haven't been made aware of, but I don't understand what the big fear is in teaching it.  Is it because people are afraid that it will encourage their children to have sex when they otherwise wouldn't have?  I totally disagree.  I grew up in Utah County and ran around with the good Mormon girls who went to church and didn't drink or swear or sluff school, and were on the honor roll.  Still almost every one of us were having unprotected sex or at least doing everything but. A couple of them got pregnant, one went through a hurried up repentance process and got married right after her 18th birthday before it happened again, another hated herself so bad for being so "sinful" that she ended up sleeping around and getting an STD.  The rest  were lucky.  All of these women ended up getting married or later sealed in the temple and are your classic TBM Mormon wives and mothers. 

 

The only "sex ed" I got was by a perverted pedophile supplemented by a mother, church, and community who taught me that it was wrong and I would be committing a terrible sin next to murder if I did it--too bad I had already been exposed by the time I was 4 years old.  The shame was almost unbearable growing up in this community.  I thought the sexual desires I had were my punishment for being bad. I needed desperately to have an adult talk to me about my sexuality that could have put the frickin' morality issue on the shelf for a bit.   Instead I went on to get raped in college, and completely blamed myself and vowed to rid myself of any sexuality.  So I guess what I'm saying is that I would really like to see the issues of rape and abuse being addressed as well in these classes.  

 

And sure, I believe the benefits of abstinence without morality being shoved down your throat, should be given just as much of a focus as  protected sex.  My daughter who was 11 at the time and in the throws of puberty came to me one night confused about her sexual feelings.  She was thinking that it sounded like a good thing, and wondered why all her friends said it was bad and why they teach that at church.  It provided a wonderful opportunity for us to have a good talk and let her know that her sexual feelings were natural, and then discuss the possible physical consequences as well as the consequences of acting on those feelings before she is emotionally ready and educated. I want my daughters and son to be able to make their choices coming from a place of self-confidence and wisdom, and not necessarily based on the morality of it that in my view often just makes you want what you think you can't have, or plagues you with uneccesary guilt. At the very least, I hope they will be smart enough to protect themselves if they're going to do it before they are mature enough to deal with the consequences.

 

So far, my children seem to feel safe coming to us and have been open to us talking to them, but as a parent I would be grateful for the support of a good, objective sex education teacher that might reach my children at times when maybe they didn't want to listen or talk to mom or dad. However, I question what kind of a  sex ed you might get here in Utah County, and if the teacher taught anything but abstinence, I'm afraid they would be run out of town. 

 

Sorry this was so long....

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Has US abstinence policy failed?

 

By Jane O'Brien
BBC News, Washington

<!-- E IBYL -->

<!-- S IIMA -->

Merchandise counter at an event organised by the US teen celibacy group Silver Ring Thing
Critics of abstinence programmes say they do not cut teen pregnancy rates

<!-- E IIMA -->

US lawmakers are investigating whether to cut government funding for health education programmes that promote sexual abstinence until marriage.

The move follows a report earlier this year from America's leading health agency, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which revealed one in four teenage girls has a sexually transmitted disease.

Opponents of abstinence education say the approach ignores the fact that teenagers are sexually active and fails to give them accurate medical information or advice on safer sex.

"We get sex-ed classes in school and that should be where teens get the right information - but that isn't happening," says 15-year-old Mildred, from Arizona, who volunteers as a peer educator with the pro-choice organisation Planned Parenthood.

"They don't touch on subjects like sexuality, STDs (sexually transmitted diseases), birth control - it's not allowed because of abstinence-only education. It leaves you on a cliff-hanger - and a lot of teenagers become sexually active in their middle school years."

"Teens are curious and they want to experiment and if they know what's out there and they have the correct information, they're going to know how to protect themselves and prevent an unwanted pregnancy and an STD," adds Maryland high school student Melissa.

"Putting up a wall and saying 'don't have sex' makes them more curious and wanting to know what it is. But if you tell them the straight facts they're going to know how to protect themselves. It's about taking care of yourself."

Teen pregnancy

Planned Parenthood estimates that two thirds of teenagers will have experienced sexual intercourse by the time they leave school.

And with some 750,000 teenage pregnancies a year, America has one of the highest teen birth rates in the developed world.

"This national programme which has wasted $1.5bn (£750m) of tax money is a failure and our teens are paying the price," says Cecile Richards, president of Planned Parenthood.

<!-- S IBOX -->

If we can learn to control the most basic of drives - the sex drive - for good, then we can control drugs, gangs, alcohol and abusive anger
Roger Norman
'Wonderful Days' abstinence programme
<!-- E IBOX -->

"We've been wasting money on programmes that don't work and we're seeing the consequences every single day."

State governments receive federal money they must match to fund abstinence programmes.

At least 17 states have opted out of the system and others have suspended funding while Congress investigates whether such programmes work.

Critics say there is no evidence that they delay sexual activity and teenagers who have taken a vow of virginity are less likely to use protection if they break their promise.

Religious right

Roger Norman, a Texas lawyer, describes himself as being part of the religious right.

He runs an organization called Wonderful Days which does not receive government funding but teaches abstinence as part of the health curriculum in some local schools.

"I am convinced that abstinence is the only way for kids," he says. "You begin by teaching the consequences of bad behaviour and the benefits of proper behaviour and you do that in a way that a child can grasp.

"Self control leads to a happy, joyful life. If we can learn to control the most basic of drives - the sex drive - for good, then we can control drugs, gangs, alcohol and abusive anger."

His lessons promote marriage and virginity - for both partners - as an ideal.

<!-- S IBOX -->

A lot of the young people I know who go around have experiences with lots of different people are just preparing themselves for not knowing how to be committed to somebody
Ashley, 18
<!-- E IBOX -->

They emphasise disease as a consequence of sex before marriage.

Some of his former students say that sexual abstinence is sensible and beneficial.

Eighteen-year-old Ashley says she believes teenagers who experiment with sex are laying the foundations for troubled relationships later in life.

"At some point everybody ends up getting married. Everybody wants commitment at some point and nobody likes to be cheated on.

"But a lot of the young people I know who go around have experiences with lots of different people are just preparing themselves for not knowing how to be committed to somebody.

"Once you get into the practice of doing whatever you want, it's hard to change when you're older."

Sixteen-year-old Josh says he relies on friends to help him stay abstinent.

"I have a lot of close friends and we pretty much agree on the same thing so we keep each other in line most of the time. Yes, it's difficult, but my friends are there and I'm there for them, and it gets easier if you have friends who agree with you."

"I'm pretty confident I can keep my abstinence vows," says 15-year-old Kirsten. "It was pretty hard reaching that decision, because living in this world today, it's almost expected of you to 'do it'. But with my religious upbringing and convictions and commonsense, it's really not that hard."

"Secondary virgins"

Teenagers who do have sex before marriage are given another chance by becoming "secondary virgins".

"Of course, if you view virginity as number one, and you've slept with someone, of course it's going to be different and you can never go back - but that doesn't mean there's no tomorrow," explains Ashley.

"Every day is a new decision and abstinence is not one you make once. You're going to have to make this decision over and over again. So if you fail once, you get back up and you try again."

The row over abstinence education is part of a much wider debate in the US about "family values".

Many conservatives are concerned that "American values" are being eroded.

But their opponents believe that the conservatives have an overly influential political voice, particularly within the current Bush administration.

For liberals, the campaign to roll back the abstinence programmes is part of a broader struggle against what they regard as reactionary elements in the US government.

Pro-abstinence campaigners say it is unfair to blame abstinence programmes for America's teenage health crisis.

Valerie Huber, chief executive of the National Abstinence Education Association, says only one in four schools teaches abstinence - the vast majority use comprehensive sex education.

That, she says is the real reason for the rise in STDs and teenage pregnancies.

"We would argue that abstinence education is not an ideological approach. We know that in the area of teen sexual activity, abstinence is the optimal approach.

"Compare this with healthful eating. We know that obesity is rising in America. That doesn't mean though that we minimise the optimal health message."

"We still stress good eating habits, we still stress exercise, knowing that, unfortunately, many Americans are not going to listen."

If Congress does decide to cut government funding for abstinence programmes, they will still continue.

Many enjoy public support and will likely find money elsewhere.

 
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Frank:
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I honestly don't think sex ed in schools do much good. Its up to the parents to teach their children. My high school offered some insights in health class, but health class was only 6 weeks long anyways. I don't remember any of it. My parents tried scaring me with lies instead of talking to me about sex. Teens are going to do what they want to do, no one at school will change their mind. But if they feel close and trustworthy to their parents they might think twice.

 

  I agree that teens are going to do what they want to do.  I do think more of them are going to do it with rubber with a little sex Ed..   Six weeks seems like plenty of time to me.

 

 It's not just sex ed.  There needs to be available contraceptives for these students.

 

There are contraceptives for the students, but most don't know about them. Planned Parenthood is an organization that works side by side with most WIC (women, infants, and children) offices and is gov't run. I don't know if it is a state org. or a federal org. They hand out condoms, give free pap smear exams, and will put girls on free birth control (usually the pill or shot). They also give free birth control to women from low income families. For the girls, they can let the dr know that their parents don't know and the parents will not be contacted.

 

I heard about this when I was 16 and put myself on birth control even though I wasn't having sex yet.

 

I don't think they need to teach sex ed in the schools, aside from the basic biology part of babies. I do think that they need to have pamphlets or something to direct kids to these other organizations that can answer the questions their parents aren't.

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....I tried to write my Exit Story and it came out a weird future visions rampant, sexual kink filled story…. http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/pomopedia/My_Morals_are_Different/

 
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Frank:

FYI: My first post was satirical...

 

 

Yeah, if I'm anything like the rest of us, we got that after reading the 2nd sentence, "..sex isn't relevant to our lives."

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I had Sex Ed. in 6th grade. I remember being shown films about the biology, facts, statistics and risks of sex. I remember being intensely embarrassed during the classes but I am glad I had the education. This was 1984.

 

The extent of my home education consisted of a booklet left quietly on my bed. I don't remember talks with the parents. There was the occasional sarcastic sneer about sex and I never witnessed any physical affection between the parents. That was an education in itself.

 

I won't even bring up the 'Sex Ed.' I got from church.

 

I have spoken with my children about sex whenever they ask questions. I had The Talk with my 12 year-old a few years ago. I mention every so often that if she has any issues or questions, to talk to me because I don't want her learning incorrect information from her friends, a likely source for information.

 

One of my daughter's friends told her that she couldn't use tampons if she was a virgin and I promptly spoke with the friend and the friend's mom about it. The mother said that the doctor had told her that. I corrected them all.  True story.

 

ETA: I didn't correct the doctor! 

 

 

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I'm finding I just "have to post" on this thread.


I am one that believes sex  ed is personal, and really needs to be done one on one. AND YET, I know that most parents ARE NOT comfortable talking to their children about sex. Not even JUST THE BIOLOGICAL aspects of menstration, what causes erection, and that it's normal to have "whet" dreams..  (Yes, I spelled it the way an OLD encyclopedia spelled it), and you are NOT wicked for "looking" and getting a hard on, feeling tingly and juicy.

 

Ok. So, we've embarrassed several of our children's friends. But, if there's a question, the kids deserve an answer. PERIOD. And if it's a lie, they'll quickly learn to turn somewhere else for an answer.

Now, I grew up in a "sexually repressed" household. I had been molested on a pretty consistent basis between the ages of 3 and 5 years old. I was told I was "BAD" for "humping a chair" - man it felt good though. I was told that you JUST DO NOT DO THOSE THINGS UNTIL YOU GET MARRIED. I didn't know that when I felt myself out until I got "juicy and tingly" that I was masterbating....

When I started my mensus... I was handed a box of Tampax and "Modess", and told, "Welcome to womanhood". That was the extent of my "official sex ed."

 

But, my parents had a set of encyclopedias.... in those books there was a section on how babies developed. I had that MEMORIZED. 

 

When I "thought" I knew as much as I could about sex, I found myself pregnant. And then I realized just how much I really didn't know (and still don't). That started a whole new learning curve and study field for me.

 

I decided right then that MY children would NOT be as "illiterate" about sex, sexuality, and biological functions as I had been.

I allowed my children to participate in the sex ed classes (and the abstainence class... supposedly happened in AZ? Well, I never saw that approach. AND abstainence DOES NOT WORK. I believe that is WHY we are seing a surge in teen pregnancies), and found that those classes only fueled more "myths" among the youth.

 

Oh, yeah, I definitely heard the theory that all girls' cycle starts on the first of the month, and IF a guy has sex with her in the middle of the cycle she can't get pregnant.

 

My kids have been known to bring others into our home to get a "real" sex education. Many parents have commented and paid compliments that my kids know so much, and I'm able to talk so freely about sex, any aspect.

 

Of course, you always have to be aware of the "limitations" that some parents place, what the "child" is ready for, and if the child needs some special "intervention" - such as in the case of child being sexually abused.

 

But, I DO feel that more than abstainence education is needed in public schools. Abstainence should be taught as an option. But, so should "protection" and what to do if you find you are raped, molested, or find you are pregnant with an unwanted pregnancy.  NONE of the latter is taught, even in the GOOD sex ed classes. 

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Frank:

FYI: My first post was satirical...

 

 

 well duh.. I for one never take you seriously..

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Dahli-mama:

Has US abstinence policy failed?

 

By Jane O'Brien
BBC News, Washington

 

Teen pregnancy

Planned Parenthood estimates that two thirds of teenagers will have experienced sexual intercourse by the time they leave school.

And with some 750,000 teenage pregnancies a year, America has one of the highest teen birth rates in the developed world.

"This national programme which has wasted $1.5bn (£750m) of tax money is a failure and our teens are paying the price," says Cecile Richards, president of Planned Parenthood.

"We've been wasting money on programmes that don't work and we're seeing the consequences every single day."

State governments receive federal money they must match to fund abstinence programmes.

 

At least 17 states have opted out of the system and others have suspended funding while Congress investigates whether such programmes work.

Critics say there is no evidence that they delay sexual activity and teenagers who have taken a vow of virginity are less likely to use protection if they break their promise.

 

If Congress does decide to cut government funding for abstinence programmes, they will still continue.

Many enjoy public support and will likely find money elsewhere.

Wonderful. My tax dollars being squandered on ineffective programs that just exacerbate the problem instead of really offering comprehensive sex ed programs, that have been proven to work, far more effectively than other programs.

 

Like we tell our children when they hit puberty, "Look, here's the deal. You're getting to the age where you're starting to mature and be attracted to the opposite sex, which is perfectly natural. Your body starts producing chemicals that make you want to have sex with those people you're attracted to, which is good. That's the reason you're here. That's the reason we're all here, not just humans, but all life forms in nature. It's perfectly natural. You might not understand it completely but that's what's happening to you too. You're growing up, physically. 

 

Now, you may be growing up physically, and you will soon be able to reproduce, if you have unprotected sex. Now we would prefer that you don't have sex before you're married, but we also are well aware of the statistics that show that most kids have sex before they get out of High School and we don't want to be ignorant of that fact. But just because most of your friends are having sex, and many of them are not responsible, it does not mean you have to contribute to that statistic.

 

The problem is that you are far too young to cope with being parents by the time you're physically capable of reproducing. Financially, emotionally, intellectually, spiritually, you still have a long way to mature before you're capable of raising a child. Besides which there are many other risks associated with promiscuous, irresponsible or risky sex and by that we mean, unprotected sex or sex with multiple partners. Most people in society have some form of a sexually transmitted disease.

 

So chances are, if you have unprotected sex with somebody who's sexual history you don't know, you will become one of those infected with an STD. If you have unprotected sex with multiple partners, you're almost guaranteed to become infected.

 

65 million people in the US have life long, incurrable sexual diseases. Every year there are 19 million new cases of STD's. Don't be one of them.

 

Obviously the best way to prevent pregnancy or the spread of STD's is to not have sex. But we're not ignorant and we know that at some point, you will probably have sex before you are married. Hopefully you are mature and responsible enough to realize all of the consequences (potential pregnancy, STD's, emotional, spiritual) of the decision to have sex before you are married and you are responsible when you do finally decide the time and your partner are right for you to have sex.

 

Hopefully you will be in a committed, monogamous relationship with a responsible person, whom you love and who loves you, and you're both committed to each other and to nobody else so that you are not sharing diseases, but regardless, the top priority is to use a condom!

 

Condoms are only 98% effective in preventing pregnancy, which means that if you don't have any other form of protection, chances are, every 50 times you have sex, even with a condom, you'll end up pregnant. Which is why when you become sexually active your girlfriend (or you) need to be on the pill.

 

And if for whatever reason, you do end up having sex while your partner was not on the pill (or you) and there is any chance that the condom might have failed, or you didn't even use a condom, you need to let us know so that we can get you down to planned parenthood for a morning after pill.

 

Failing all of that, and you find out that you or your partner are pregnant, then you've got some tough decisions to make. You can either get an abortion, have the child and give it up for adoption or have the child and become a teenage parent, which will probably be the worst choice you will ever make in your life, but those are the very real consequences of making really bad decisions for yourself.

 

Either way, you'll be responsible, not only for the outcomes in your own life, but potentially for the outcome of the life you will create if you are irresponsible and fail to understand the consequences of your behavior.

 

So far it's worked with our first two children, who've survived High School without getting anybody pregnant. Our oldest son, who is now 20 is in a committed relationship with his sweetheart of a girlfriend of 3 years. They're both responsible and sexually active. They have always used condoms and she's been on the pill the whole time, thanks to DW calling her clueless mother and informing her that her daughter was sexually active and that she needed to get her down to her doctor for an exam and to get on the pill, which she did years ago.

 

Our 18 y.o. son is in a relationship with a very nice girl his age and they are not sexually active. She's got morals and goals and nothing is going to prevent her from achieving them, which we love about her! Hopefully some of that rubs off on our son!

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my opinion on sex ed in schools is that it needs to be taught as a regular, normal part of life.  Not some taboo issue.  We all have "private parts", we all are wired for sex, pretty much everyone will "do it".  everyone should have access to information.  it's a natural, normal part of being a human.  why does it have to be so shameful? 

But, I think that sex ed needs to start at home.  What is offered at the school is to supplement. 

as I remember my sex ed classes, I thought they were a joke.  really.  but since my parents already had the "birds and bees" talk, I already knew everything, and even (OMG) felt the need to correct the teacher a few times. 

my kids will participate in the sex ed classes.  after I tell them the info first. 

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Our 18 y.o. son is in a relationship with a very nice girl his age and they are not sexually active. She's got morals and goals and nothing is going to prevent her from achieving them, which we love about her! Hopefully some of that rubs off on our son!

 

Just curious, what makes you so sure they are NOT sexually active? Because that is what they told you?  

 

When I was 18 my boyfriend at the time (who is now my husband) had great morals and goals of a Mormon Mission.  Low and behold, we still had sex....My 20 year old babysitter just lost her virginity, as did her younger sister.  I know this because they confided in me.  Their mother, an acquaintance of mine, often talks openly about her "virginal" daughters and how they would never have sex before marriage......When I ask her how she "knows" this she tells me because they tell her everything, they trust her, and she always knows where they are.....well one of the girls lost her virginity to her long-time boyfriend in the back of his car in the school parking lot while at lunch during school!

 

All I am saying is, our children are no different than we were at their age....and I know what I was doing then!

 

All that being said, though, every kid is different and of course there is absolutely a possibility that your son and his girlfriend are the exceptions - and thus you have nothing to worry about.   I guess I just wanted to stir the pot a little .

 

 
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Kori:
 
 

Wonderful. My tax dollars being squandered on ineffective programs that just exacerbate the problem instead of really offering comprehensive sex ed programs, that have been proven to work, far more effectively than other programs.

 

Like we tell our children when they hit puberty, "Look, here's the deal. You're getting to the age where you're starting to mature and be attracted to the opposite sex, which is perfectly natural. Your body starts producing chemicals that make you want to have sex with those people you're attracted to, which is good. That's the reason you're here. That's the reason we're all here, not just humans, but all life forms in nature. It's perfectly natural. You might not understand it completely but that's what's happening to you too. You're growing up, physically. 

 

Now, you may be growing up physically, and you will soon be able to reproduce, if you have unprotected sex. Now we would prefer that you don't have sex before you're married, but we also are well aware of the statistics that show that most kids have sex before they get out of High School and we don't want to be ignorant of that fact. But just because most of your friends are having sex, and many of them are not responsible, it does not mean you have to contribute to that statistic.

 

The problem is that you are far too young to cope with being parents by the time you're physically capable of reproducing. Financially, emotionally, intellectually, spiritually, you still have a long way to mature before you're capable of raising a child. Besides which there are many other risks associated with promiscuous, irresponsible or risky sex and by that we mean, unprotected sex or sex with multiple partners. Most people in society have some form of a sexually transmitted disease.

 

So chances are, if you have unprotected sex with somebody who's sexual history you don't know, you will become one of those infected with an STD. If you have unprotected sex with multiple partners, you're almost guaranteed to become infected.

 

65 million people in the US have life long, incurrable sexual diseases. Every year there are 19 million new cases of STD's. Don't be one of them.

 

Obviously the best way to prevent pregnancy or the spread of STD's is to not have sex. But we're not ignorant and we know that at some point, you will probably have sex before you are married. Hopefully you are mature and responsible enough to realize all of the consequences (potential pregnancy, STD's, emotional, spiritual) of the decision to have sex before you are married and you are responsible when you do finally decide the time and your partner are right for you to have sex.

 

Hopefully you will be in a committed, monogamous relationship with a responsible person, whom you love and who loves you, and you're both committed to each other and to nobody else so that you are not sharing diseases, but regardless, the top priority is to use a condom!

 

Condoms are only 98% effective in preventing pregnancy, which means that if you don't have any other form of protection, chances are, every 50 times you have sex, even with a condom, you'll end up pregnant. Which is why when you become sexually active your girlfriend (or you) need to be on the pill.

 

And if for whatever reason, you do end up having sex while your partner was not on the pill (or you) and there is any chance that the condom might have failed, or you didn't even use a condom, you need to let us know so that we can get you down to planned parenthood for a morning after pill.

 

Failing all of that, and you find out that you or your partner are pregnant, then you've got some tough decisions to make. You can either get an abortion, have the child and give it up for adoption or have the child and become a teenage parent, which will probably be the worst choice you will ever make in your life, but those are the very real consequences of making really bad decisions for yourself.

 

Either way, you'll be responsible, not only for the outcomes in your own life, but potentially for the outcome of the life you will create if you are irresponsible and fail to understand the consequences of your behavior.

 

So far it's worked with our first two children, who've survived High School without getting anybody pregnant. Our oldest son, who is now 20 is in a committed relationship with his sweetheart of a girlfriend of 3 years. They're both responsible and sexually active. They have always used condoms and she's been on the pill the whole time, thanks to DW calling her clueless mother and informing her that her daughter was sexually active and that she needed to get her down to her doctor for an exam and to get on the pill, which she did years ago.

 

Our 18 y.o. son is in a relationship with a very nice girl his age and they are not sexually active. She's got morals and goals and nothing is going to prevent her from achieving them, which we love about her! Hopefully some of that rubs off on our son!

 

Sounds like you've got good communication w/ your children. I think I'll rip off your frankness and use it in our family. The last sex talks we had here were before we left the church, so some of our words will change... I like the method you've taken.

 

As an aside, "pill" use isn't always so cut and dry. Using it can come at a high physical and emotional cost for many women. Some side effects can be simply annoying (weight gain, moodiness, etc), to downright dangerous (blood clots, increased risk of certain cancers, etc). I occasionally wonder if there was a male 'pill' developed, how long it would have taken them to work out the kinks... But women, historically, get the short end of the medical stick and have put up w/ some life altering side effects in order to avoid pregnancy.

 

I am not completely trashing the 'pill', as it's proven helpful for many women, and in fact, nations! And it has allowed women to take some control over their fertility. But I am saying that it's not as simple as it's made out to be, and I yearn for a better alternative for my daughters, one day.

 

-Heather

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MelissaMay:

Just curious, what makes you so sure they are NOT sexually active? Because that is what they told you?  

 

When I was 18 my boyfriend at the time (who is now my husband) had great morals and goals of a Mormon Mission.  Low and behold, we still had sex....My 20 year old babysitter just lost her virginity, as did her younger sister.  I know this because they confided in me.  Their mother, an acquaintance of mine, often talks openly about her "virginal" daughters and how they would never have sex before marriage......When I ask her how she "knows" this she tells me because they tell her everything, they trust her, and she always knows where they are.....well one of the girls lost her virginity to her long-time boyfriend in the back of his car in the school parking lot while at lunch during school!

 

All I am saying is, our children are no different than we were at their age....and I know what I was doing then!

 

All that being said, though, every kid is different and of course there is absolutely a possibility that your son and his girlfriend are the exceptions - and thus you have nothing to worry about.   I guess I just wanted to stir the pot a little .

 

 

Because my son does not hesitate to communicate with me. 

He's not a virgin and didn't hesitate to tell me the two times he had sex, and we talked about the consequences of that. 

One of his girlfriends when he was 16 wanted to have sex and he didn't think they were ready, after talking with me about it, which I was proud of him for. 

After they broke up, the girl ended up pregnant with her next boyfriend and had to get an abortion.

 

He was grateful for making the responsible decision and I made sure to use that as an opportunity to reinforce the positive consequence of his good decision to be responsible. 

 

I think that really sunk in with him and he fully understands the implications of being irresponsible, since he feels like he really dodged a bullet by being responsible and he's a very responsible adult, which I'm grateful for.

 

We have frank and open discussions with our children at an early age.

 

Information is power. The more they have, the more empowered they are.

 

It also helps them to know that no matter what decisions they make, we'll be in their corner fighting for them, tooth and nail.

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Wow, where to begin.  As a pediatrician I counsel kids about sex all the time and I honestly don't think I make a big difference.  Those kids with ambition and good self-esteem tend to make good choices whether it be abstinence or using birth control.  Other kids who have a harder time in adolescence and look for acceptance through sex often end up pregnant.  One patient, a 16yo girl, admitted (and they don't all admit it to me obviously) she was having unprotected sex, we went through the whole process, she got it and she got pregnant.  Sometimes I wonder if that is the outcome she wanted.  Another girl, giggled like an 8 year old everytime I said "you are going to end up pregnant or with an STI or both."  She was clueless and harder to help, she literally thinks "it won't happen to me."  She's not pregnant...yet.  Many of my patients are in my old ( did I mention I resigned) ward, good LDS kids.  The smart confident ones do well, the others, pregnant--2 in the last 2 years.  I find the same % sexually active in LDS vs non-LDS.  Oh, and one  boy just left on his mission, wonder if his sexual past came up?

 

 

Kids need information but since they mature at different rates, one size does not fit all.  Thats why I don't think teen pregnancy will be solved with sex ed in school, however I do not oppose it.  I always opted out for my kids and handled it at home. Parents can do so much helping children  when they are young, developing their self image and confindence.  Some will have sex and some won't but those with goals and a vision of their future will be more likely to use protection.  And then there is the whole other topic of the adolescent brain and risk taking...

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hmccue: 

Sounds like you've got good communication w/ your children. I think I'll rip off your frankness and use it in our family. The last sex talks we had here were before we left the church, so some of our words will change... I like the method you've taken.

 

As an aside, "pill" use isn't always so cut and dry. Using it can come at a high physical and emotional cost for many women. Some side effects can be simply annoying (weight gain, moodiness, etc), to downright dangerous (blood clots, increased risk of certain cancers, etc). I occasionally wonder if there was a male 'pill' developed, how long it would have taken them to work out the kinks... But women, historically, get the short end of the medical stick and have put up w/ some life altering side effects in order to avoid pregnancy.

 

I am not completely trashing the 'pill', as it's proven helpful for many women, and in fact, nations! And it has allowed women to take some control over their fertility. But I am saying that it's not as simple as it's made out to be, and I yearn for a better alternative for my daughters, one day.

 

-Heather

 

Personally, I think good communication with your children is the best way to ensure their well being, health and safety, which is my primary concern in life. 

 

I think it's pretty simple to identify the social ills in our country (drug abuse, promiscuity, STD's, unwanted pregnancies, teenage pregnancies, violence, abuse....the list goes on) and it's pretty simple to raise our children to be healthy and avoid risky behaviors that lead to those kinds of social ills, by showing them how to fulfill their higher (emotional, intellectual, belonging, meaning, self actualization and spiritual) needs. When children are living fulfilling lives, then their lower, base, physical needs can be fulfilled in a healthy, natural way, instead of an overindulgent way. 

 

If children are happy and feel like they are loved at home and belong to something larger than themselves, like their family and community, then they  will not go out looking to fulfill those needs in inappropriate ways, like acting out in risky, inappropriate behaviors in order to fulfill their need for love, affection, attention and Ego. 

 

As far as the pill goes. I know. My wife refused to take the pill because of the negative side effects, which meant I had to get a vasectomy if we didn't want any more kids, half of whom were born as a result of the 98% effectiveness of condoms. We've learned from sad experience, which turned out to be ok in our case, since we were married and old enough to deal with having kids, but if we were young, not married and got pregnant, it would have been an entirely different outcome in our lives.

 

The side effects of not doubling up on protection (having a kid) are far worse than the side effects of doubling up on protection. 

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Just throwing this out there since we homeschool - I wonder what the teen pregnancy rate is among piblic schooled children verses homeschooled children.

.

Aside from the obvious fact that HS kids aren't around peers as much to end up having sex in the back of a car during lunch, HS'd teens do have friends and do still go out on dates and are aout alone with the opposite sex.

.

I just wonder if there is a study or statistic on it.

.

Maybe it is higher among HS'd kids because many parents who decide to HS do it for religious reasons so I can only assume sex ed would come in the form of preaching abstinence only.

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NotYourWife:

my opinion on sex ed in schools is that it needs to be taught as a regular, normal part of life.  Not some taboo issue.  We all have "private parts", we all are wired for sex, pretty much everyone will "do it".  everyone should have access to information.  it's a natural, normal part of being a human.  why does it have to be so shameful? 

But, I think that sex ed needs to start at home.  What is offered at the school is to supplement. 

as I remember my sex ed classes, I thought they were a joke.  really.  but since my parents already had the "birds and bees" talk, I already knew everything, and even (OMG) felt the need to correct the teacher a few times. 

my kids will participate in the sex ed classes.  after I tell them the info first. 

 

 I know you didn't mean it the way it sounds.

 

 

"California education officials said today that the state of California needs 52,000 more teachers. They say we are facing a huge teacher shortage. In fact, by the year 2007, they said many students will be forced to have sex with each other." --Jay Leno

 

Or...

 

 



Ron Jeremy


"Here's what I don't understand," said Jay Leno in his monologue last night. "Why did Ron Jeremy make a commercial not to watch porn? Do kids know him? It's not like he's Michael Jordon. I mean if your kid knows who he is, isn't it too late already?"

 

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It should be taught in schools. It's biology.

 

 
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I agree with those who think sex ed should be taught in schools. I may be biased, however...coming from a weirdly conservative household. When I was maybe thirteen or fourteen, I asked my mom what it meant to be raped. After a long pause, she told me that it was when a man took off a woman's clothes and looked at her naked. Yeah...you can imagine that I didn't get a lot (any) sex ed from my parents. The most I got as far as "sex talks" was that a man and a woman make a baby together. That's it. Though it was a little embarassing to be taught all that stuff in public school, I am so glad someone informed me about STD's, pregnancy prevention, etc.
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Hiker r:
Tonto:

I'm a "no." 

 

But I just posted on that other thread that it's been a crappy day, and I'm in a mood.

 

I'll hang around for a while to read, but I promise to refrain from posting anything else until tomorrow lest I write some more stuff I regret. 

 

Hugs to Everyone!

 

Love, Tonto

 I respect your opinion Tonto.  I started this thread hoping that informed people like you would chime in about what works in sex ed and what doesn't work.  

 

 

Hiker, you're a great dude.  Fact is, I'm surprised anyone respects me today.  I had the absolute day from hell yesterday... and I drop by my favorite site to find that the very thing that sent me over the edge happened to be the topic of the day.

 

To clarify some of my comments from yesterday...

 

Yes, I think that biological mechanics of reproduction are absolutely appropriate for a biology classroom.  Sperm meets egg... etc. etc.  That is part of the cycle of life and is entirely suitable, in fact it is essential, learning material.  I also think a reasonably clinical discussion of STDs and family-planning methods are suitable in the proper classroom environment.

 

Where I get off the bus is when we must have these touchy-feely assemblies and small group meetings about "how we feel" and open discussion of any and all topics... etc. etc. etc.

 

I shit you not.  I have been in these things where brassy girls openly discuss the first blow-job they gave so they can be the "baddest" girl in school... where smart-ass boys contrive to ask more and more outlandish questions in an attempt to draw attention to themselves... "Hey, what kind of rubber is best for the woman... cause, hey, I want her to come back for more, you know."  "Hey, can you tell me exactly what it is that lesbians do?"

 

Meanwhile,  quiet kids look like they want to find a rock to climb under, and administrators are trying to get things under some semblence of control.  Detentions are thrown out like beads from a Mardi Gras float.  Nobody is getting ANYTHING worthwhile out of the whole exercise.  Sex Day is the topic of conversation for weeks afterwards, and NOT for the reasons that many of you seem to think.

 

I'm a teacher.  My business is "what you know."  "How you feel" about sex is Mom and Dad's job.

 

No doubt, I'm the minority... I'm swimming against the tide to convince many Post-mo's that not EVERYTHING should be the government's job, EVEN IF Mom and Dad aren't doing theirs.

 

 
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Tonto:

  Detentions are thrown out like beads from a Mardi Gras float. 


 

 

AWESOME simile! Perfect imagery. I give it a 10.0.

 

 

 

Did they have to show their (*) (*) to get beads?

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