I have/had a friend whom I met over 7 years ago, probably closer to 8 or 9 years ago. Either way she is Mormon TBM in every sense, even got the Obabam is a muslim terrorist e-mails from her and since she is in AZ got the pro McCain e-mails too. I let them slide and what not. My vote countered hers. Of course she is "Anti-Gay" too because they told her to be.
I met her in LLL in Mesa which had a LOT of LDS moms in it and she was one of them. We became friends along with a few other women. Unfortunately I moved from AZ about 7 years ago but I have kept in contact with this "friend" the entire time. She basically gossiped about everyone back in Arizona to me. I would listen but would always take most of it with a grain of salt, mostly since she is a gossip and I prefer hearing news from the source.
So any ways, I officially resigned back in February '08. I sent out my exit letter to my family and I thought to all of my LDS friends too. I could have SWORN I sent her the link or letter, but I guess I didn't.
Over the holidays 2 things happened. First I found her profile on facebook so we hooked up there. Secondly she sent me and e-mail asking about hooking up over Christmas since she has Family in Michigan that they were going to visit, and then she asked if she could come to church with us since her mom is still Catholic. I was seriously confused at first because I wasn't sure exactly what she was asking. Did she want to go to "my" church or an LDS one. So I replied with the standard, yeah I would love to hook up have dinner or lunch etc etc but asked which church she wanted to go to. I got a reply asking me if I wasn't going to "my" LDS church or not. At this point since the e-mails were close we IM'd instead.
We started to chit chat first and she filled me in on some gossip. She had run into one of my former best friends sister-in-law (now ex sister in law) who said that this friend has "gone crazy" and left the church {oh no gasp, LOL}. I was shocked but excited now, but I just listened to her go on about how this friend really lost the spirit and left the church etc etc etc. Then she headed back into the e-mail topic.
She then said "Yeah I saw you listed yourself as a 'rationalist' on Facebook under your religion what is that all about?" So I explained that we resigned from the church too, but I thought she knew that. She said she didn't. I replied saying how I thought I sent her my letter and that I would send her a copy of it, and I did. I said a few more things but she never typed back.
I awaited her e-mail or phone call but nothing came. I knew at the first sign of her non-response to our IM at the fact I resigned the church I had a hunch she now thought I went "crazy" too. So Christmas came and went and she never did contact me while she was in town.
Well tonight while on facebook I realized I hadn't seen anything from her in feeds in a while so I checked my friends list and sure enough she wasn't listed as a friend anymore. I looked her up again and requested to be friends with an added note asking if "I did anything wrong?". My hunch is it'll be ignored and after 8+ years of friendship I am worthless to her without that LDS title anymore.
I guess the hardest part is the fact that while she talked to me all year long while I was NOT a Mormon she had no problem with me. But as soon as she found out I resigned I suddenly became "unworthy" of her time, and was even removed as her friend from FB (it's petty I know but significant).
Mormon's can be so petty and rarely follow their own teachings. Such a effing petty thing as what church I go to ruined a relationship.
But the bright side of it is I e-mailed my former best friend, and thankfully her e-mail still worked, to let her know I too left the church. I then of course got the real story. She indeed "left" but not officially and even asked for help in that department for which I gave her the info on how to formally leave the church. I also gave her the link here. So now we're talking again. {The reason we stopped talking is because she did have a nervous break down after I left AZ due to the stress of 6 kids and a very unsupportive husband who refused to take her out on a date. She also got into one of those pyramid schemes and kept calling me and pressuring me to buy and join. Right there is what did it. Those Mormon pyramid schemes.}She's since divorced her husband and is actually doing really well. She belly dances and is 100 times more happier since leaving the church. She said she felt too much pressure to be perfect that it was making her depressed and all of that that we all know too well.
I was surprised by the fact that she was surprised by my resignation from the church, LOL. She was a crunchy mom like me. She started me on my UC/homebirth path and cloth diapers and everything else I do "natural". I think she was headed out way before me.
I guess it's one of those bitter sweet deals. I lost one friend whom I thought WAS a good friend, only to find out she was petty, shallow and superficial but I regained an old friend who shares the same values and ideals I do. I just wish it didn't hurt so much to be snubbed by someone whom you thought was a true friend. 8 years of friendship tossed to the curb over religion. Very sadly petty. Like I said though hurt but not too surprised.
It is always interesting, that when a "door" closes...a "window" opens. You've just been blessed with that cliche. Things do seem to work themselves out.
I started to write "that is too bad" and realized that wasn't what I was really thinking. What I was really thinking is how the wheat does get separated from the chaff and that is okay no matter what the catalyst ... but still sorry you had to deal with the rejection emotionally...
Well tonight while on facebook I realized I hadn't seen anything from
her in feeds in a while so I checked my friends list and sure enough
she wasn't listed as a friend anymore. I looked her up again and
requested to be friends with an added note asking if "I did anything
wrong?". My hunch is it'll be ignored and after 8+ years of friendship
I am worthless to her... Lilith
Funny today that I would coincidentally be thinking of the clique-trading that seems to go on, guaranteed with the perceived high authority of the Mormon Church, but disrespecting long term acquaintances and the close and beloved family relationships too.
I am so sorry that this has happened again to the both persons who really did nothing wrong. And now are cast onto the pile of dead relationships, among the holocaust of tens of thousands of others, as if they might never have the chance to ever be resurrected again.
I think it really sucks the way your friend acted. I think it is so sad that this religion enables people to be jerks, (or maybe people can feel good about being jerky, since they are doing in the name of religion.)
I'm worried, too. I've met up with a lot of former ward friends from other states, and they have no idea my status. But, it they act in the same manner as your friend, I guess I will know what kind of "friends" they really are.
I'm so glad you met up with an old friend, though! True friends are great to have!
Sounds kind of like my MIL. She's always been pretty stand-offish with me, until I emailed her awhile ago and said I'd read the BOM and suddenly I was being bombed with emails like we were buddy buddy. Then I said I didn't agree with any of it and they stopped. Barf.
It is so her loss..I wonder at all the good friendships and sound relationships
that are lost because of this church. It is a narrow road that they walk and
in the end, they will have learned nothing about life and unconditional love.
Hugs, you have many friends, a wonderful family..it is definitely her loss!
I was surprised by the fact that she was surprised by my resignation from the church, LOL. She was a crunchy mom like me. She started me on my UC/homebirth path and cloth diapers and everything else I do "natural". I think she was headed out way before me.
I guess it's one of those bitter sweet deals. I lost one friend whom I thought WAS a good friend, only to find out she was petty, shallow and superficial but I regained an old friend who shares the same values and ideals I do. I just wish it didn't hurt so much to be snubbed by someone whom you thought was a true friend. 8 years of friendship tossed to the curb over religion. Very sadly petty. Like I said though hurt but not too surprised.
I can relate to your experience with the former best friend. I had a similar experience. Sent an email to someone I "thought" was a close and dear friend, with my explanation of why I left the church, and how that really doesn't change who I am and how I live my life. But she came back at me like a rabid dog.
It does sound like you have a lot in common with the belly dancer friend anyway! I'm curious tho, what is a "crunchy mom"??
I was surprised by the fact that she was surprised by my resignation from the church, LOL. She was a crunchy mom like me. She started me on my UC/homebirth path and cloth diapers and everything else I do "natural". I think she was headed out way before me.
I guess it's one of those bitter sweet deals. I lost one friend whom I thought WAS a good friend, only to find out she was petty, shallow and superficial but I regained an old friend who shares the same values and ideals I do. I just wish it didn't hurt so much to be snubbed by someone whom you thought was a true friend. 8 years of friendship tossed to the curb over religion. Very sadly petty. Like I said though hurt but not too surprised.
I can relate to your experience with the former best friend. I had a similar experience. Sent an email to someone I "thought" was a close and dear friend, with my explanation of why I left the church, and how that really doesn't change who I am and how I live my life. But she came back at me like a rabid dog.
It does sound like you have a lot in common with the belly dancer friend anyway! I'm curious tho, what is a "crunchy mom"??
I'm sure Lillith will be back with the answer... but I want to guess.
I was surprised by the fact that she was surprised by my resignation from the church, LOL. She was a crunchy mom like me. She started me on my UC/homebirth path and cloth diapers and everything else I do "natural". I think she was headed out way before me.
I guess it's one of those bitter sweet deals. I lost one friend whom I thought WAS a good friend, only to find out she was petty, shallow and superficial but I regained an old friend who shares the same values and ideals I do. I just wish it didn't hurt so much to be snubbed by someone whom you thought was a true friend. 8 years of friendship tossed to the curb over religion. Very sadly petty. Like I said though hurt but not too surprised.
I can relate to your experience with the former best friend. I had a similar experience. Sent an email to someone I "thought" was a close and dear friend, with my explanation of why I left the church, and how that really doesn't change who I am and how I live my life. But she came back at me like a rabid dog.
It does sound like you have a lot in common with the belly dancer friend anyway! I'm curious tho, what is a "crunchy mom"??
I'm sure Lillith will be back with the answer... but I want to guess.
I can so, like many others, relate to your post. I've lost count of the number of people I thought were my friends that have decided I'm no longer worthy of their friendship now that I'm no longer Mormon. It hurts.
I don't have much else to add, other than I feel for you. I, too, wear those scars. ((HUGS))
Wow it only took 2½ months to get a reply from her. Of course having messaged her on facebook LAST week I guess helped too.
Any ways here was her reasoning behind deleting me as a "friend" on facebook:
-
(Lilith),
I have to admit I was a bit shocked, but I only deleted you because of the content that you post that was showing up on my blog, such as the post about you trying to get people to support gay rights. I don't want that stuff showing up on my wall & people associating me with things that I do not support. I was going to email you to explain this but I've been so busy with my English class and all the other million things I do.
I am very rarely ever on facebook anyway, I mainly got on there to find some old friends from our singles ward for a reunion that we just had, now that that is over I won't be spending much time there at all.
You are still a reader on my blog & still in my email & IM contacts, so we can keep in touch that way still.
Seems a little odd. She deletes me as a friend because I don't support her views?!
I want to say something but am not sure what. This is what I am thinking so far:
That is extremely petty. I have nearly 70 friends on facebook who are Mormon. Some family but mostly friends with whom I grew up with. I don't delete them whenever they post something positive about Mormonism, or post about their views on Gays, which are usually the same as yours but NOT always. Believe it or not, NOT ALL Mormons believe the Prophet and General Authorities have it right on the Gay issue. Many DO believe Gays should be allowed to marry and many see this as a repeat of the Black issue within the church.
I also have Christian Fundamentalist as friends and I don't delete them whenever they start praising their "God" and preaching how "God" is the only way to salvation. I accept my friends for who they are because I DO associate with them and they ARE my friends. But just because I do does NOT mean I support their ideas or beliefs. I'm mature enough to allow my friends the right and freedom to have different ideas and beliefs from me even if I do not support those beliefs and ideas.
The Mormon church also has guidelines about this. It's called the 11th article of Faith, if you remember it goes something like this:
"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."
Either you believe in this or you don't, but my guess at this point is that you don't since you don't allow even your friends to have a different opinion from you on a friend networking site. Beside that your friends don't SEE what I post or my status updates or if I post an article about supporting gays unless they are my friends too. It does not post on your wall for your friends to see, only you see it. You even have the option of making sure you don't see feeds by me, and still COULD have kept me as a friend.
I don't know what else to say. It sounds like BS to me, her excuse. She has the option of not receiving any feeds from me and not receiving anything from me but stil keep me as a friend on facebook. Of course I don't know how savvy she is with Facebook, and by the sound of it she assumes whatever she sees on her feeds all of her friends can see it.
Still, to delete a friend over different beliefs and ideas is just plain pettiness and shows her true colors.
How would some of you approach this? What other great ideas do you have that I could say? (Besides "shove it", LOL I know some of you )
I might remove, "That is so petty," but keep everything else. Petty is a bit judgmental, even if she is being petty... will it really help the friendship or get her back if you say that straight up, first thing?
In terms of accepting who people are, not loving them for what they do or don't do, just accept that she is a petty, small-minded, little person and don't feel compelled to tell her you think that.
Either she groks your argument about the 11th article of faith, or she won't. Of course, I say "good riddance" because I can't understand why you want someone that shallow and thoughtless in your cadre of loved ones, but maybe she has other really wonderful qualities I don't know anything about. So focus on those and don't label her behavior if you really want to keep her as your friend.
Be the change you want to see. Model the behavior you'd like her to demonstrate.
I might remove, "That is so petty," but keep everything else. Petty is a bit judgmental, even if she is being petty... will it really help the friendship or get her back if you say that straight up, first thing?
In terms of accepting who people are, not loving them for what they do or don't do, just accept that she is a petty, small-minded, little person and don't feel compelled to tell her you think that.
Either she groks your argument about the 11th article of faith, or she won't. Of course, I say "good riddance" because I can't understand why you want someone that shallow and thoughtless in your cadre of loved ones, but maybe she has other really wonderful qualities I don't know anything about. So focus on those and don't label her behavior if you really want to keep her as your friend.
Be the change you want to see. Model the behavior you'd like her to demonstrate.
No, I don't believe I want to keep her as a friend. I had written her off until I opened my e-mail this afternoon. I agree though I probably shouldn't keep that in there.
One so closed minded like that is not worth being friends with. I don't need the headache.
I have nearly 70 friends on facebook who are Mormon. Some family but mostly friends with whom I grew up with. I don't delete them whenever they post something positive about Mormonism, or post about their views on Gays, which are usually the same as yours but NOT always. Believe it or not, NOT ALL Mormons believe the Prophet and General Authorities have it right on the Gay issue. Many DO believe Gays should be allowed to marry and many see this as a repeat of the Black issue within the church.
I also have some Christian Fundamentalists as friends and I don't delete them whenever they start praising their "God" and preaching how "God" is the only way to salvation. I accept my friends for who they are because I DO associate with them and they ARE my friends. But just because I do does NOT mean I support their ideas or beliefs. I'm mature enough to allow my friends the right and freedom to have different ideas and beliefs from me even if I do not support those beliefs and ideas.
The Mormon church also has guidelines about this. It's called the 11th article of Faith, if you remember it goes something like this:
"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."
Either you believe in this or you don't, but my guess at this point is that you don't since you don't allow even your friends like me to have a different opinion from you on a friend networking site. Besides that your friends don't SEE what I post or my status updates or if I post an article about supporting gays unless they are my friends too. It does not post on your wall for your friends to see, only you see it. You even have the option of making sure you don't see feeds by me, and still COULD have kept me as a friend.
I'm just wondering where I stand with you since you had mentioned visiting us while you were in town but you never contacted me after I told you I wasn't Mormon anymore. It did hurt a little, but then I understood since I know many Mormons cut ties with family and friends who leave the church so I was prepared. I still found it funny in the fact that you had spoken to me all year since I left and nothing had really changed until the moment I told you we left the church. I hadn't changed because even as a Mormon I supported Gay rights. I do not believe a church, ANY church should force their morals onto others like that. Marriage is not sacred because if it was then there would be a law against divorce and religions would support it. As it is Joseph Smith who practiced polygamy and polyandry certainly stretched the meaning of marriage to include between a man and a woman and a man when he married several women who were already married to other men who were still alive!
I know when you started to send mass e-mails out about Prop H8 and gave links to your position I didn't remove you from my e-mail list or block your e-mails. When you sent e-mails about how horrible Obama would be as a president I again didn't block your e-mails or remove you from my e-mail list. Those e-mails attacked my beliefs and my ideas but it is your right to have those opinions and ideas and I respect that and appreciate the fact that we are different. I however am getting the sense that this respect is not reciprocated, and I understand it is because of how you think and believe and how you were raised.
I don't know where this leaves our friendship though. I don't believe we'll ever be on the same page with beliefs and opinions and since that seems to be something you need in order to have friends then I seriously question our friendship.
My attitude is "With friends like that, who needs enemies?!?!?!"
I've got lots of TBM friends with whom I communicate on a daily basis.
I don't get offended by them signing up to be fans of Lil Tommy Monson and they don't get offended that I make Pantheist comments on the Ekhart Tolle discussion board.
One of my really redneck TBM friends is now listening to Eckhart Tolle and Jill Bolte Taylor podcasts, whom he'd never heard of before, and told me, "Wow, they really get it."
Personally I think that if we can leave our Egos out of our interaction with our TBM friends and always take the high road in every interaction, then every now and then, we're able to get past their herd instinct and connect to their NeoCortexes where reason, empathy, compassion and conscience rule.
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