Update: Closer to home. Please see the 6:53 pm post (June 10) on this thread.
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In an earlier post, I mentioned that our pleasant little neighborhood (eight houses) was 25% gay by household.
A couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that I was looking for some used golf clubs for the 16 year old son of an unemployed single Mom in the next town. The son wanted to learn to play golf and couldn’t afford clubs.
Ten minutes later, our gay neighbor knocked on my door with a very nice set of clubs, bag and all, and asked me to give them to the boy. These have since become the boy’s prize possessions.
This and many other acts of kindness were reasons that I was shocked to read on the MADB board the other day that, had this gay individual been Mormon, he may well have had members suggesting that, instead of living in a mutually supportive and loving relationship, he should voluntarily chemically castrate himself.
When I actually opened and read the post, I thought about someone suggesting that to my friend in person, and almost wished that this Mormon author could have that opportunity.
For a moment, I imagined this Mormon individual receiving a personal lesson in gay pride that would take effect faster than any anti-gonadal chemicals. (But it was just a fantasy. Our neighbors are in excellent physical condition, but would never cause bodily injury to another except in self defense.)
I apologize if posting this seems inappropriate. But the more I thought about this apparently acceptable Mormon viewpoint, the more upsetting it was.
I have heard some pretty silly, and even (perhaps unintentional) malevolent, suggestions for helping apostates or potential apostates to come back to the fold and live in accordance with gospel principles. But this one takes the cake.
Again, if apologies are needed for posting this bit or Mormon insight and wisdom, you have mine.
If this is too off the wall to respond to, please just ignore it. However, I get upset just thinking about this. I makes me embarrassed to be a member of the Church, even if in name only (which I hasten to assure you is the case.)
I wanted to let this community know what kind of irrational (twisted?) thinking goes on in the minds of supposedly faithful members of the Church when it comes to what they view to be God's will.
What an evil idea. It speaks well of you DrW, that you're disgusted by the thought. It doesn't surprise me that some people would think this way, but it always scares me anyway.
I don't post here often (RfM is down today)--but I usede to post here. My "ex" is gay--and he and I are on very good terms. I'm not surprised about this and, if I remember right, I've heard it before. I'm assuming you've heard of the shock therapy they used on gays at BYU.
I believe this is a very appropriate post and you shouldn't be apologizing for it. It never ceases to amaze me the ignorance of a lot of mormons when it comes to gay issues. I found out my "ex" is gay 26 years ago. Although society has come a long way since then, the mormon church has not. They've twisted their words just a little to make it sound like they have changed--but they haven't.
Two weeks ago, my 16 year old daughter came into her history class late, and walked in on a constitutional debate. The kids were debating new laws.
One mormon student was proposing a new law making it illegal to allow gays to marry. Up to that point no one had opposed the law (including the teacher). My daughter was disgusted.
She put together a well crafter counter-argument, and had several students in tears when she was done. It is important to not remain silent and speak up to ignorance.
I've heard similar ignorance from folks who would be considered more fundamentalist Nazi LDS (ok, she's my DIL) but the thing that hurts most is that they teach these silly harmful attitudes to their children then look for only that information that would feed their blatant bias.
So what are you doing over at MADB??? Them idjuts are way beneath your vast intellect.
OMG. Their argument that it would be a "choice" for the homosexual mormon to make if they want to do this procedure makes it humane in some way. Knowing some gay members that agonized about being gay and would of done anything to of been "normal" makes this argument all the more amoral to me.
From the poster "charity" - "It isn't the Church's stance on homosexuality that you quarrel with. It
is God's. But if you want to fight against Him, you really think your
puny ideas will win?"
That's a whole lot of crazy right there. That type of reasoning will take you right back to the 15th century.
I don't post here often (RfM is down today)--but I usede to post here. My "ex" is gay--and he and I are on very good terms. I'm not surprised about this and, if I remember right, I've heard it before. I'm assuming you've heard of the shock therapy they used on gays at BYU.
I believe this is a very appropriate post and you shouldn't be apologizing for it. It never ceases to amaze me the ignorance of a lot of mormons when it comes to gay issues. I found out my "ex" is gay 26 years ago. Although society has come a long way since then, the mormon church has not. They've twisted their words just a little to make it sound like they have changed--but they haven't.
I've heard church leaders say that they certainly don't recommend or condone such practices. Present tense. They don't mention that they did in the past and then they remain silent and allow the uninformed to infer that the church never has done anything of the sort.
Just like polygamy and racism, they are very insulted when you have the audacity to hold them accountable for past bad acts.
It is incredible the damage the church causes to people, in this case screwing with people's heads until they are so morally confused that they would suggest this. If anybody has been wondering how Hitler convinced good honest people to become killers and part of his grand "plan", look no farther than the blinding effects dogma can have on the human mind.
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One thing I've appreciated about growing older is my imagination is no longer held captive all day by a beautiful woman who smiles & says hello. Much easier to get back to work, be productive, without having "flash backs" of what might potentially be. The old diminishing sex drive has its benefits! LOL
More seriously, is chemical castration an option for LDS gays? I mean, if you're faithful LDS & accept that for whatever reason the Lord has put you on Earth as a "eunuch" (best case, if you can stay strong), why should you have to struggle with incessant thoughts that are not just inappropriate now, but will be inappropriate in the next life, too, only serve to pervert any desires to have children in a celestial relationship in the next life. There is zero point to having homosexual thoughts, it's not as though they're a normal part of the procreation process - they're just an annoying, perverted form of biology, entirely worthless.
Does the handbook have information on this?
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"I'm not apprehensive about the future - it is the past that scares the bejesus out of me."
- Kilgore Trout
Ladies and gentlemen, It would be a real tragedy if this mans address should be researched and a little GAY welcoming committee and ceremony performed to help him understand what he's suggesting. Since he's no longer bothered by sexual desire it shouldn't be any loss for him to have his own shriveled cahoneys severed and then stuffed down his raspy throat.
Not that I'm suggesting such a thing but I can fantasize.
I've heard similar ignorance from folks who would be considered more fundamentalist Nazi LDS (ok, she's my DIL) but thething that hurts most is that they teach these silly harmful attitudes to their children then look for only that information that would feed their blatant bias.
<snip>
So what are you doing over at MADB??? Them idjuts are way beneath your vast intellect.
Not according to them.
According to them I am a narrow minded, egomaniacal , Satan-inspired Kirihor; an unempathetic ,hard core rationalist who keeps beating them over the head with facts and refuses to even consider their well thought out views on the importance of "faith" and the "spirit".
Whenever I'm feeling masochistic and need a little self-flagellation, I head on over there. After all, I need to keep up on what my kids and grandkids are being exposed to as Mormon thought evolves.
And, if there are any threads on how Mormonism is compatible with science, or on religion and science in general, or how angels can travel faster than the speed of light, or how wonderful it is that the existence of Kolob was revealed to mankind, I will often post.
A few facts and a little dose of reality never hurt anyone. (But you wouldn't know that from the local response to my posts.)
I have a very odd pseudonym that I've used there but only under extreme duress will I even hint at reading the absolute codswallop that gets re-gurgitated and lapped up by the silly folks there. ----I'm not the sharpest stick in the bunch but messing with their heads is like kicking the quadrapeligic kid on the playground except they're just lame enough to taunt till I do it out of a sense of community service to teach them a lesson. Luckily I don't do it often. ---- My pseudonym came about accidentally when I was looking up a greek word for "Fear of Clowns". It has a familiar word in it that was just too poetic to pass up.---My favorite game there is to play dumb (this comes quite naturally) and then ask innocent childlike questions posed by my mean Anti-Mormon sister who is always trying to trip me up and then see what sort of crazy ass crap they come up with as good retorts. Like shooting fish in a barrel. Nothing makes me feel smarter than to spend an afternoon among the intellectual retards and cultural hillbillies at MADB.
condition is one of the most remarked-upon phobias on the Internet. Coulrophobia was coined during the 1990's and is based on the Greek word Koulon or limb. Related derivatives are suggestive of stilts and stilt walking. For example the Greek work Kolobathristes means one who goes on stilts. Clowns are often known to walk on stilts and so this how the relationship developed and the word Coulrophobia was made.
I'm glad I ate already, because now I'm going...Wait, maybe not so glad.
That is just...I don't have the words for it. At least some of the other posters seemed to think it was a bad idea...but then there were those idiots who called out the people saying it was a bad idea and...Wait, here I go again.
. For example the Greek work Kolobathristes means one who goes on stilts. Clowns are often known to walk on stilts and so this how the relationship developed and the word Coulrophobia was made.
Kolobathristes
Are you kidding me? This is too much. Oh, this one is too good to be true.
I don't know which sounds more cruel and inhuman. This subject or the one I was presented with while seeking therapy at LDS social (DIS) services after comming out as a gay man in the mission field. I had told myself that if I went on a mission for TSCC that God would grant me the only selfish thing I can remember praying for and make me NOT gay. I SOOOO completely hated myself and the feeling I knew were not in line with church teachings. After 5 months it became obvious that being in that environment only made things worse so I called the mission president and told him I had to go home. I told him why and his response was that I spent too much time playing the piano instead of football. I was home within 24 hours.
I was sent to a Mr. Haggerty in Ogden, Ut where he proceeded to dig through every aspect of my past to try to discover the cause of my perversion. (His words)
He had me join the Deseret Gym. My favorite part of that therapy became the shower after the workout. He told me that when I walked down the street I was to look at the ground else I might see someone attractive. That just led to an awful lot of run ins with street signs and lamp posts. He told me to sing hymns to myself whenever I thought of sex. This was useless since I had been the ward organist from age 12 and did that anyway. There were many other lame and rediculous "therapies" that never had any effect whatsoever.
In the last session that I went to, Mr. Haggerty was becooming very frustrated
with me and actually said this to me..." It would be better for your eternal soul to commit suicide rather than live a life as a homosexual!" A year later I tried and failed.
One thing did die that day though. My need to belong to that @#&%! church!
I don't know which sounds more cruel and inhuman. This subject or the one I was presented with while seeking therapy at LDS social (DIS) services after comming out as a gay man in the mission field. I had told myself that if I went on a mission for TSCC that God would grant me the only selfish thing I can remember praying for and make me NOT gay. I SOOOO completely hated myself and the feeling I knew were not in line with church teachings. After 5 months it became obvious that being in that environment only made things worse so I called the mission president and told him I had to go home. I told him why and his response was that I spent too much time playing the piano instead of football. I was home within 24 hours.
I was sent to a Mr. Haggerty in Ogden, Ut where he proceeded to dig through every aspect of my past to try to discover the cause of my perversion. (His words)
He had me join the Deseret Gym. My favorite part of that therapy became the shower after the workout. He told me that when I walked down the street I was to look at the ground else I might see someone attractive. That just led to an awful lot of run ins with street signs and lamp posts. He told me to sing hymns to myself whenever I thought of sex. This was useless since I had been the ward organist from age 12 and did that anyway. There were many other lame and rediculous "therapies" that never had any effect whatsoever.
In the last session that I went to, Mr. Haggerty was becooming very frustrated
with me and actually said this to me..." It would be better for your eternal soul to commit suicide rather than live a life as a homosexual!" A year later I tried and failed.
One thing did die that day though. My need to belong to that @#&%! church!
How your life would be different if you only hadn't touched that gay piano...
I wonder if there is a chemical treatment for stupidity that would render such idiots as that Mr. Haggerty mute and at least temporarily paralyzed so that he could not do any more damage to the young hearts and souls of those sent to him. Trust that there's a special place in Hell (if there's a hell) for such men.
-------------I wonder how many gay football players wonder if they'd not been surrounded by so many studly young buffed up men if they'd been less tempted. The assumptions that playing the piano or football or any other activity adds to ones gender preference is ludicrous.------I always liked camping and hiking instead of the innane useless stitchery the girls were required to do and there's no doubt that I have a strong preference for men, especially my own man.----- The people who promote such idiotic ideas as that Mr. Haggerty should be placed on a special ice floe and set adrift in the North Atlantic.
Dahli-mama:
I wonder if there is a chemical treatment for stupidity that would render such idiots as that Mr. Haggerty mute and at least temporarily paralyzed so that he could not do any more damage to the young hearts and souls of those sent to him. Trust that there's a special place in Hell (if there's a hell) for such men. -------------I wonder how many gay football players wonder if they'd not been surrounded by so many studly young buffed up men if they'd been less tempted. The assumptions that playing the piano or football or any other activity adds to ones gender preference is ludicrous.------I always liked camping and hiking instead of the innane useless stitchery the girls were required to do and there's no doubt that I have a strong preference for men, especially my own man.----- The people who promote such idiotic ideas as that Mr. Haggerty should be placed on a special ice floe and set adrift in the North Atlantic.
After telling my story to an MCC (gay affirming) church in SLC some years later someone came up to me afterwards and said that he was told the same thing. If any of you good people hear of someone going to LDS social services for ANY reason tell them in no uncertain terms to RUN FOR YOUR LIFE! LITERALLY!!!
LITH, I believe it stands for Mormon Apologetics Discussion Board.
I figure anything that has to have Apology in it's title already passed up it's opportunity for truth.
If you go there wear your tallest barn mucking boots, maybe even hip waders because the shit flows fast and deep and it's very very acrid if it gets on you. Stains something fierce!!
Dahli-mama:
I wonder if there is a chemical treatment for stupidity that would render such idiots as that Mr. Haggerty mute and at least temporarily paralyzed so that he could not do any more damage to the young hearts and souls of those sent to him. Trust that there's a special place in Hell (if there's a hell) for such men. -------------I wonder how many gay football players wonder if they'd not been surrounded by so many studly young buffed up men if they'd been less tempted. The assumptions that playing the piano or football or any other activity adds to ones gender preference is ludicrous.------I always liked camping and hiking instead of the innane useless stitchery the girls were required to do and there's no doubt that I have a strong preference for men, especially my own man.----- The people who promote such idiotic ideas as that Mr. Haggerty should be placed on a special ice floe and set adrift in the North Atlantic.
After telling my story to an MCC (gay affirming) church in SLC some years later someone came up to me afterwards and said that he was told the same thing. If any of you good people hear of someone going to LDS social services for ANY reason tell them in no uncertain terms to RUN FOR YOUR LIFE! LITERALLY!!!
Manonry, I belive the line around the block would fill up fast if we put up a sign for those that have been seriously damaged by LDS social services. They seem to have a special pre-requisite for hypocrites and idiots to work for their "Service". Horror stories about forced/manipulated adoptions, electroshock therapy, etc. are abundant. The one who counseled my ex and I told me that I could overcome my frustration and disappointment in my ex's illegal shennanigans if I would "Honor his priesthood and become more submissive." and then he sealed the deal with, "If you would just lower your expectations you would be less disappointed when he gets fired".
When the guys daughter took her own life I felt very sad for him but could imagine a girl growing up in that atmosphere might see it as the only way out.
I chose divorce and to leave the church as my life line. I've never been sorry for either. I'm really glad you got out too and I hope you someday find or have found the love of your life and a base of good people that love and understand you. It hurts to know that our own immediate family often do not qualify as "Friends" but someday we move on and make better family connections with the others who have gotten out of this harmful cult.
I don't know which sounds more cruel and inhuman. This subject or the one I was presented with while seeking therapy at LDS social (DIS) services after comming out as a gay man in the mission field. I had told myself that if I went on a mission for TSCC that God would grant me the only selfish thing I can remember praying for and make me NOT gay. I SOOOO completely hated myself and the feeling I knew were not in line with church teachings. After 5 months it became obvious that being in that environment only made things worse so I called the mission president and told him I had to go home. I told him why and his response was that I spent too much time playing the piano instead of football. I was home within 24 hours.
I was sent to a Mr. Haggerty in Ogden, Ut where he proceeded to dig through every aspect of my past to try to discover the cause of my perversion. (His words)
He had me join the Deseret Gym. My favorite part of that therapy became the shower after the workout. He told me that when I walked down the street I was to look at the ground else I might see someone attractive. That just led to an awful lot of run ins with street signs and lamp posts. He told me to sing hymns to myself whenever I thought of sex. This was useless since I had been the ward organist from age 12 and did that anyway. There were many other lame and rediculous "therapies" that never had any effect whatsoever.
In the last session that I went to, Mr. Haggerty was becooming very frustrated
with me and actually said this to me..." It would be better for your eternal soul to commit suicide rather than live a life as a homosexual!" A year later I tried and failed.
One thing did die that day though. My need to belong to that @#&%! church!
MM,
Even one story like yours is one too many, and I would guess that there are hundreds, if not thousands.
(Let's see, 60,000 missionaries times (approximately 5% to about 8.5%) of the male population would make it in the thousands. ( I realize that the Mormon male missionary cohort is somewhat self-selecting against homosexuality, but still, over the many years, it does make one wonder).
Thanks for letting us know that this kind of thing really does happen. I am sorry and a bit ashamed that it happened to you personally.
One well-known Mormon voice of reason on this issue (who draws a lot of fire over at MADB) is Carol Lynn Pearson. Once a loved and respected Mormon fiction and inspirational literature writer, she has become somewhat of a pariah since several gays showed up in her family (including her husband and a son-in-law). To her great credit ,she defends them and gay men in general.
It is supposed to be a board where those seeking knowledge about the Church can come and be edified and educated by caring, mainly self-appointed, apologists (although there are a couple of pro's, including Daniel C. Peterson.)
I am guessing the Church Leadership is sorry they ever started it. Because the apologists are getting their clocks cleaned on Hebrew DNA, JSJ translating from his hat, the Book of Abraham (there are even TBM's who are now saying it should be dropped from the scriptural canon) , gay rights, etc.
The "locals", no doub,t think they are doing a great job, but one only need follow a few threads to see that the critics are making them look silly to any rational third party.
ETA: Just saw that Dahli -mama already provided this information. (You gotta watch'er, 'cause she's a fast one -- and knows what she's talking about when it comes to MADB BS, and most other kinds of TBM BS as well.)
It is supposed to be a board where those seeking knowledge about the Church can come and be edified and educated by caring, mainly self-appointed, apologists (although there are a couple of pro's, including Daniel C. Peterson
I am guessing the Church Leadership is sorry they ever started it. Because the apologists are getting their clocks cleaned on Hebrew DNA, JSJ translating from his hat, the Book of Abraham (there are even TBM's who are now saying it should be dropped from the scriptural canon) , gay rights, etc.
The "locals", no doub,t think they are doing a great job, but one only need follow a few threads to see that the critics are making them look sily to any rational third party.
I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but this guy takes the cake he is supposed to be a scholar, educated and some kind of intellectual but his reasoning is something else
I read a thread were he gives apologies for the FRENCH word in the BoM claiming that a translator is free to express themselves how they wish in order to get their point across! This includes words from other languages?!
So when my relatives come to visit and I have to translate from German to English for DW I can start throwing some French, Dutch, Italian and maybe some Swahili words in the mix despite the fact she only speaks English!
I mean he has a point I "can" do that but it would be rather confusing to my wife I doubt she would get the gist of what I was translating.
Dahli-mama:
I wonder if there is a chemical treatment for stupidity that would render such idiots as that Mr. Haggerty mute and at least temporarily paralyzed so that he could not do any more damage to the young hearts and souls of those sent to him. Trust that there's a special place in Hell (if there's a hell) for such men.
-------------I wonder how many gay football players wonder if they'd not been surrounded by so many studly young buffed up men if they'd been less tempted. The assumptions that playing the piano or football or any other activity adds to ones gender preference is ludicrous.------I always liked camping and hiking instead of the innane useless stitchery the girls were required to do and there's no doubt that I have a strong preference for men, especially my own man.----- The people who promote such idiotic ideas as that Mr. Haggerty should be placed on a special ice floe and set adrift in the North Atlantic.
I agree; extracurricular interests are not related to gender preference as far as I can tell. I don't enjoy competitive sports of any sort. My mom was worried about me going into the art field because of the "lifestyle" that so many artists get into (the insinuation was that it would make me gay).
Sorry, but I don't buy that line of crap. Men have simply never interested me that way. I like to paint. I enjoy interior decorating shows. I grow orchids, I like to cook, and I enjoy gardening... and I am really into women.
If I were a woman I'd certainly be a lesbian because I simply don't know how y'all can be into us guys and our various offensive odors, obnoxious noises, hairy bodies, juvenile antics, etc. What exactly is the attraction anyway?
Dahli-mama:
I wonder if there is a chemical treatment for stupidity that would render such idiots as that Mr. Haggerty mute and at least temporarily paralyzed so that he could not do any more damage to the young hearts and souls of those sent to him. Trust that there's a special place in Hell (if there's a hell) for such men. -------------I wonder how many gay football players wonder if they'd not been surrounded by so many studly young buffed up men if they'd been less tempted. The assumptions that playing the piano or football or any other activity adds to ones gender preference is ludicrous.------I always liked camping and hiking instead of the innane useless stitchery the girls were required to do and there's no doubt that I have a strong preference for men, especially my own man.----- The people who promote such idiotic ideas as that Mr. Haggerty should be placed on a special ice floe and set adrift in the North Atlantic.
I agree; extracurricular interests are not related to gender preference as far as I can tell. I don't enjoy competitive sports of any sort. My mom was worried about me going into the art field because of the "lifestyle" that so many artists get into (the insinuation was that it would make me gay).
Sorry, but I don't buy that line of crap. Men have simply never interested me that way. I like to paint. I enjoy interior decorating shows. I grow orchids, I like to cook, and I enjoy gardening... and I am really into women.
If I were a woman I'd certainly be a lesbian because I simply don't know how y'all can be into us guys and our various offensive odors, obnoxious noises, hairy bodies, juvenile antics, etc. What exactly is the attraction anyway?
Don't ask the question you know you don't want the answer to.
The Morg(ue) has abused gays and lesbians in every other way known to man, so why stop short of this obscene outrage?
Thank goodness for the internet, so hopefully more young G&Ls can research the bigger picture on the quiet before the worst of mental abuses can be rolled out.
Dahli-mama:
I wonder if there is a chemical treatment for stupidity that would render such idiots as that Mr. Haggerty mute and at least temporarily paralyzed so that he could not do any more damage to the young hearts and souls of those sent to him. Trust that there's a special place in Hell (if there's a hell) for such men. -------------I wonder how many gay football players wonder if they'd not been surrounded by so many studly young buffed up men if they'd been less tempted. The assumptions that playing the piano or football or any other activity adds to ones gender preference is ludicrous.------I always liked camping and hiking instead of the innane useless stitchery the girls were required to do and there's no doubt that I have a strong preference for men, especially my own man.----- The people who promote such idiotic ideas as that Mr. Haggerty should be placed on a special ice floe and set adrift in the North Atlantic.
After telling my story to an MCC (gay affirming) church in SLC some years later someone came up to me afterwards and said that he was told the same thing. If any of you good people hear of someone going to LDS social services for ANY reason tell them in no uncertain terms to RUN FOR YOUR LIFE! LITERALLY!!!
My (brief) time with LDS Social Services to help my depression (suicidal thoughts) was actually helpful to me, but I'm starting to think I'm in the minority. It did help me manage my depression, though it never got to the root of the actual problem (which I did myself several years later).
As for the original topic: I read only part of that post before I had to close the tab. It was not only sickening but also absolutely infuriating. How do you even get to a point where thinking that is even acceptable, let alone suggesting it as a valid way to "stop the evil gay"? I can't fathom it, and the majority of my family is stupidly homophobic.
It is supposed to be a board where those seeking knowledge about the Church can come and be edified and educated by caring, mainly self-appointed, apologists (although there are a couple of pro's, including Daniel C. Peterson
I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but this guy takes the cake he is supposed to be a scholar, educated and some kind of intellectual but his reasoning is something else
I read a thread were he gives apologies for the FRENCH word in the BoM claiming that a translator is free to express themselves how they wish in order to get their point across! This includes words from other languages?!
So when my relatives come to visit and I have to translate from German to English for DW I can start throwing some French, Dutch, Italian and maybe some Swahili words in the mix despite the fact she only speaks English!
I mean he has a point I "can" do that but it would be rather confusing to my wife I doubt she would get the gist of what I was translating.
Ozlamanite,
Peterson has built himself quite a reputation and made a number of outspoken personal enemies in the ex-mo / post/mo community.
On the one occasion that I offered to debate him on a subject that he had raised (cosmology, includng Islamic cosmology), he declined to have a discussion. This was in spite of the fact that he claims to have a background in Islamic philosophy (including cosmology) and mathematics.
Perhaps he reviewed some of my other posts on pro-mormon websites (including a blog I had on S.P.A.M. until they banned me) and decided that he did not like my general attitude (or perhaps he could see from those posts exactly where the discussion would go and did not want end up there).
Anyway, he is an apologist, and all they need to create (in their minds) is plausibility.
The associated probabilities (usually vanishlgly small) are apparently of no concern to them. Or if they are, I have yet to see one admit it.
Wow . . . every time I think that I have reached the final frontier of Mormon idiocy something like this comes up.
Heck, why stop with gays? Why not just start subscribing Depo-Provera to every unmarried Mormon over the age of twelve? It could be a new coming of age present for people entering young men's/women's, and you can stop taking it after you are finally sealed in the temple. Think of how wonderful this will be . . . huge reduction in teen pregnancy and the Bishop will probably have TONS more time to spend with his family given that he will have to hear less sexual confession. Baptism numbers will almost certainly sky rocket across the world since, as we all know, the work is suffering simply because missionaries can't stop dithering their doodle. The invention of chemical castration is just another wonderful way that the Lard has used science to further the work of his one true church!
Bottom line: once you have decided that you are God's personal gunslinger, there is no limit to the absolutely horrific things that you are capable of doing.
I'm so glad that I found this web site(THANKS JEFF) and all the kind and intelligent folks that come here to enlighten us and keep us in the loop of what TSCC is up to. It is so important that this kind of info is put out there for all to see.
I personally would like to see Dr. Phil (NOT A REAL DR.) replaced by our own REAL DR. Yes, and his side kick our own MAMMA! I can't wait for the next post mo conference so I can meet everyone. I am really curious to see the size of Dr. W's head. I have followed his posts and this is one smart cookie. His brain must be
. For example the Greek work Kolobathristes means one who goes on stilts. Clowns are often known to walk on stilts and so this how the relationship developed and the word Coulrophobia was made.
Kolobathristes
Are you kidding me? This is too much. Oh, this one is too good to be true.
Dahli, you slay me! If I ever find myself in a debate over what it means to be a Kolobian clown [as opposed to a killer clown], I want you to have my back.
If I were a woman I'd certainly be a lesbian because I simply don't know how y'all can be into us guys and our various offensive odors, obnoxious noises, hairy bodies, juvenile antics, etc. What exactly is the attraction anyway?
Well Draconis, this might be a can of worms to dig into but from my perspective the things I love about men are pretty simple. The men I like or have enjoyed (before my very good and committed marriage to Bad Ass Brave Billy (BABB) have all been very different physically but offered a variety of intellectual and creative gifts that drew me to them long before I was attracted physically. The physical stuff is easy. I like the way men look,even the ones whove lost their hair, gotten pudgy, start to sag in the middle, etc.. I figure if they can forgive me for being a middle aged human being I can easily look past their humanity for the good things underneath the skin.
I had five brothers so there's almost nothing a guy can do that would shock me. In fact, I can probably outdo them in crude analogies and grossology, at least in words. (Please don't challenge me on this). In spite of the buffoonery I like that obvious male side of many men, the willingness to just be who they are, flaws and all. I don't feel that way when I'm around some women and find that most of my close friends are men. I can appreciate the beauty of women and am always fascinated by the variety that abounds, but they do nothing for me sexually...well, maybe a few, but only as a shared fantasy with my husband.
Most men have about five needs or ways to reach them. Many of them are pretty straight forward about those needs and if I can't tease or satisfy them on one front I can always bring a box of doughnuts and get right to the heart of the matter. Many men are very fragile in their egos but are pretty resiliant in other ways and so the games don't have to be as complicated and manipulative as the ones some women require. I know when a man says, "I like that that" he really likes it.
I know this will seem offensive to some but please take it in the spirit with which I give it. I like many men because they're simple to understand. And the other reason but that's just me. I've known since I was two that I was heterosexual. I can imagine it is that way whether someone is gay or straight. I Yam what I Yam.
I'm so glad that I found this web site(THANKS JEFF) and all the kind and intelligent folks that come here to enlighten us and keep us in the loop of what TSCC is up to. It is so important that this kind of info is put out there for all to see.
I personally would like to see Dr. Phil (NOT A REAL DR.) replaced by our own REAL DR. Yes, and his side kick our own MAMMA! I can't wait for the next post mo conference so I can meet everyone. I am really curious to see the size of Dr. W's head. I have followed his posts and this is one smart cookie. His brain must be
GYNORMOUS!
So stay tuned for the Dr.W and Mamma show.
I LOVE YOU ALL!
MM,
Thanks for the kind words and vote of confidence.
However, there seems to be some confusion on one point (and I don't understand how this could have happened).
But, it should be pretty clear by now that I am actually Dhali-mama's sidekick.
She outranks me by a substantial margin. In fact, in some circles, she is actually considered a kind of a god (and you can see why).
It's my boobs, isn't it? I knew it. A gal can go to college, have a career, raise three kids, build and rennovate homes, etc. and try to write brilliant prose and it all comes down to her mammaries. You disgust me. In conclusion, BOOBS.
I don't know which sounds more cruel and inhuman. This subject or the one I was presented with while seeking therapy at LDS social (DIS) services after comming out as a gay man in the mission field. I had told myself that if I went on a mission for TSCC that God would grant me the only selfish thing I can remember praying for and make me NOT gay. I SOOOO completely hated myself and the feeling I knew were not in line with church teachings. After 5 months it became obvious that being in that environment only made things worse so I called the mission president and told him I had to go home. I told him why and his response was that I spent too much time playing the piano instead of football. I was home within 24 hours.
I was sent to a Mr. Haggerty in Ogden, Ut where he proceeded to dig through every aspect of my past to try to discover the cause of my perversion. (His words)
He had me join the Deseret Gym. My favorite part of that therapy became the shower after the workout. He told me that when I walked down the street I was to look at the ground else I might see someone attractive. That just led to an awful lot of run ins with street signs and lamp posts. He told me to sing hymns to myself whenever I thought of sex. This was useless since I had been the ward organist from age 12 and did that anyway. There were many other lame and rediculous "therapies" that never had any effect whatsoever.
In the last session that I went to, Mr. Haggerty was becooming very frustrated
with me and actually said this to me..." It would be better for your eternal soul to commit suicide rather than live a life as a homosexual!" A year later I tried and failed.
One thing did die that day though. My need to belong to that @#&%! church!
This post moved me, really moved me. What a terrible thing to go through. Thanks for sharing it.
Wow . . . every time I think that I have reached the final frontier of Mormon idiocy something like this comes up.
Heck, why stop with gays? Why not just start subscribing Depo-Provera to every unmarried Mormon over the age of twelve? It could be a new coming of age present for people entering young men's/women's, and you can stop taking it after you are finally sealed in the temple. Think of how wonderful this will be . . . huge reduction in teen pregnancy and the Bishop will probably have TONS more time to spend with his family given that he will have to hear less sexual confession. Baptism numbers will almost certainly sky rocket across the world since, as we all know, the work is suffering simply because missionaries can't stop dithering their doodle. The invention of chemical castration is just another wonderful way that the Lard has used science to further the work of his one true church!
Bottom line: once you have decided that you are God's personal gunslinger, there is no limit to the absolutely horrific things that you are capable of doing.
Ed,
Perhaps you should consider posting some of this over on MADB. The potential advantages of Depo-Provera that you point out in helping ease the burden of unholy sexual thoughts for young Mormon men may well be welcomed there.
With regard to absolutely horrific things that have been done based on a "sure knowledge" of God's will, here is an example from my personal experience.
When we lived in Washington State, a young Mormon mother (Christine Jonson) threw her two infant sons off of a bridge over the Columbia River because she loved them. She honestly believed that, since they had died before the age of accountability, they would automatically inherit the celestial kingdom.
She later explained that she believed herself to be evil (by Church standards) and believed that the only chance her two boys had to enter the celestial kingdom was to die before the age of eight. She knew that she would go to prison, but to her, her two boys were more important. She called the police to turn herself in within minutes after throwing them off the bridge.
She was later ruled temporarily insane and given a reduced sentence. Friends of mine knew this woman. She lived in our Stake. They assured me that, in general, she was a caring, helpful and balanced woman, and had no history of anything but mild depression (and what LDS mom can honestly say she has never been depressed?).
When I posted about this story on MACD, many TBM's apparently did not believe me. Once I provided the reference to Ann Rule's published account of this tragedy*, most of these folks did not post further.
Some said that Christine was delusional (which was true, much as the TBM's making the observation were delusional).
Most amazing of all responses was that from an individual who said that she doubted that mankind could really know what the age of accountability really was, and that this important issues was still open to question and (like everything else TBM's cannot explain) would require further revelation from God to settle the issue.
Think about this statement. This TBM was responding to the story of a mother who had committed a double murder because she was taught by the Church that the victims (her children) would go directly to the CK, and the most important thing to this TBM was to try and provide the Church with some apologist wiggle room on the age of accountability (as if it mattered).
I relate this last piece of information in support of your statement that there can always be yet more idiocy (and callous disregard to the plight of others) from the magic well (make that the magical thinking well) of Mormonism.
When my nephew took his sweet life a yr. and half ago I was devastated. He came home early from his mission. He was traumatized by the experience and then in the shame he felt {and was not so subtly infused from years of being told that to come home or not serve was akin to a death sentence or set up for a lifetime of failure), he did what some young men who are faced with all that judgement and cruel ostricization feel and do, he took his own life. It still brings me to my knees with sadness and longing for all that he could have been and would have been if the LDS church and it's culture had not infused such horrific emotional abuse on his sweet pliable mind. In this I cannot forgive this harmful cult.
--------Dr. Wilsons account of the young woman who was sure her children would be saved if they died before the "age of accountability" is something that the LDS people should bear collective shame for since they continue to preach such bullshit and play on the very tender hearts and fears of their own people. Any that would claim that such things are NOT DOCTRINAL are full of crap. I heard it, read it, saw it with my own eyes.
When my own daughter passed away from genetic defects that could not be corrected I was told the same placebo baloney, that she would be better off in Mormon Heaven because she died before the age of accountablity. My son was in first grade when his little sister died and he too was filled with the illusion that to die before turning eight was almost a golden ticket into heaven. At six years old he was contemplating his glorious death so he too could "Go to the Celestial Kingdom".
---The LDS church and it's doctrine are equal to the Taliban to me in the way they teach our young people to glorify their own deaths for the imagined rewards of heaven. Hell, just strap some C-4 to their chest and send them into a church nursery and you could make sure they all go to Mormon Heaven.
------Just don't give me 70 virgin men. I've had virgin men. It's no picnic. They're done before the nightgown is off.
Such horrible and sad stories! I can't believe the church can be so insentive and not see the harm they cause! I'm truly starting to see how little life is valued in the church. Life is only valuable if you conform to their rules.
Wow!!!
Knowing some gay members that agonized about being gay and would of done anything to of been "normal" makes this argument all the more amoral to me.
