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Is there an escape? Even though Im out, am I out??
 
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I went through a divorce just over 2 years ago.  My loss of faith played a role in it, but the main issues were more just differences in personalities.  We had an extremely fast post missionary marriage and found out pretty quickly that we were  2 very different people.  Over the next four years (which was also the timeframe in which I fell away from mormonism) we grew more and more distant.  We than moved to las vegas where we grew even more distant and a few years later it all ended when I caught her in an affair.  Simple version.  6 years has a lot more issues than just that, anyone married could attest.  But yes...she was and is the TBM.  Strangely enough I have another few friends where this happened as well..the TBM has the affair due to the non believer pulling away.

 

Anyway, things got ugly in the divorce. They had never been ugly to that point.  We had never fought when we were together.  It was purely in the separation that we started getting real.

 

I really never blamed her for the affair.  I knew I had pulled away both emotionally and physically for years.  JUST A NOTE FOR THE OTHERS QUESTIONING LIVING A DOUBLE LIFE FOR A MARRIAGE...THIS WILL HAPPEN WHETHER YOU MEAN IT TO OR NOT IF YOU DONT COME OUT ABOUT YOUR TRUE THOUGHTS......

 

Anyway, more than 2 years later and here I am with a TBM girlfriend and my TBM family begging me to see a councellor.  So signed up to see one today...after 2 and a half years.

 

I do not deny that I probably need to see one.  BUt I think that they are all expecting different results then will come out of it.  I am sure they all have it in their heads that I fell away from the church because of the divorce.  They just dont register that the one preceeded the other.

 

Other than that I dont terribly understand why I should see a councelor.  I suppose things will be revealed to me as I go talk to her. 

 

I am going to a professional recommended by my mother and sister.  And I have to tell you, I am skeptical that she might be TBM (I have no idea) and this whole thing might be an ambush to try to get me back in....

 

I still feel surrounded by mormonsim with no escape and as if everyone is trying everything they can to suck me back in using long term methods.  Paranoia?  Maybe......but maybe not.

 

I come here as one of my only outlets.....but I still dont feel as though I have a real escape or real possibilites for a life completely away from mormonism.  I dont want to sign back up to a TBM gal and be guilted and forced to participate in the mo world....but I think she is the greatest person otherwise and dont know what to do with her....especially after my divorce.  I think moving on with her would be setting myself up for another failure. But I dont know how to cut it off either..Or know if I want to.

 

 I dont even know why I wrote this.   I just feel like I can echo the godfather's saying "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."  I feel like I 've been treading mormon water trying to escape it and swim for shore for 8 years.  It wears me out. and I still feel afraid if I stop swimmming ill sink and be sucked back into it.  I dont want that.  How do I escape for real?

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Cogito Ergo Sum = “I think, therefore I am.” (Descartes) The latin word “Cogito” is also a play on words. Co=together, Gito=shake….a second meaning of the phrase is, “I shake things up, therefore I am.” (Greary.)

 
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Chterrible:

 I feel like I 've been treading mormon water trying to escape it and swim for shore for 8 years.  It wears me out. and I still feel afraid if I stop swimmming ill sink and be sucked back into it.  I dont want that.  How do I escape for real?

 

Have you resigned?  That sends a pretty clear message that you don't want to have anything to do with the church.  Don't take this the wrong way, but if you're postmo and you know the church isn't true, why would you date a TBM?  I just don't get that.  I'm sure she's a great girl but after having my mind screwed with by the church my entire life I wouldn't date another TBM if she had a billion dollars and was the hottest thing on earth...

 

Obviously you haven't told your family about your non-belief in mormonism.  Do you still attend?  What do they think your activity status with the church is?

 
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In a very real way, Mormonism is the drug of the True Believing Members.  Most addiction counselors will tell you that in order to overcome an addiction it is important to change friends.  As long as you are with friends that participate in the drug you are addicted to, then you are going to get sucked back in. 

 

I don't associate much with my family, outside of those that also are non-believers.  Fortunately, I have a son and a sister that don't believe and my parents are choosing to not make an issue of it anymore.   My two children that I get to see because of Child Visitation rights are learning that if they get too forward about it I am going to serve up a big dish of Cognitive Dissonance.  

 

One of the things I have going for me, is that I see the church as extremely harmful.  Therefore, I am not embarrassed about being out, nor do I tread lightly around family members.  If they open the ballgame with a fast pitch, I'm likely to knock it out of the ballpark.  I have studied the issues until I know the problems, the apologist responses, the sources (preferably LDS) and practiced responses so that I can respond quickly to pretty much any aspect of Mormonism, from doctrinal issues to psychological damage, to whitwashed history.  

 

Mostly, it is a live and let live with my TBM family members but they had to understand that I am not going to crumble and come crawling back.  If they want a relationship then it has to be with the REAL me, not some two dimensional image they are trying to make me into.

 

Max

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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction.
Blaise Pascal

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
― Marcus Aurelius

 
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I agree with Bringitdown: A TBM girlfriend, especially if the relationship progresses to the next natural phase, is a recipe for a lifetime in the Mormon universe. I know it's easy to say as I sit here with a TBM wife I can't talk to, but were I in the market, I think finding out a woman was a Mormon believer would mean a pretty early disqualification.  But I know sometimes we aren't completely in control of our attractions.  Unfortunately, your family may very well see your dating a TBM as an opportunity to try to get you back on the path.  And what about her?  Does she see you as a project?

 

Personally, I don't  expect to ever be free of Mormonism.  Even if I end up single again, I still have a whole TBM family who pray for my eventual return.  Plus, I spent 35 years as a believer; you can't just leave that behind.  I would be very surprised to hear of anyone who really, truly left the church behind.  Of course, anyone who DID leave it all behind wouldn't be posting here.

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I am the tortoise

 
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Ultimately, it is you who decides how much Morg you let into your life.  Yes, there are some aspects of things you can't change.  You can't change what others believe.  Fine, dandy.  You do control how much they shove down your throat.  I know it seems otherwise, but bear with me on this.  If you allow them to constantly push things and walk all over you, they will continue to do so.  If you stand firm with them, they will probably flip the hell out for awhile, but eventually they'll learn to either knock it off, or you'll get so fed up that you'll cut them off until they learn to behave themselves.  

 

It is tough, yes.  I know I'm sounding flippant, but I've been there.  The longer you cave in and allow the LDS members in your life to push and weasel things in, they will.  It's much like how you treat small children:  they will constantly push boundaries.  If you allow them to act up, they will and they'll only get worse.  If you put your foot down and refuse to allow them to treat you that way, they may throw a bit of a tantrum, but they will learn.  They may try it again later, but they'll learn.  You have to be the grownup on this one.  You have to have a spine of steel. Is everyone in your life trying to drag you back in?  Possibly, very possibly.  As long as they think they've got half a chance, they're going to continue to annoy the living daylights out of you.  Don't cave in, stand firm.

 

As for the TBM girlfriend...  dude.  Just don't.  Don't do that to you or to her.  Why would you two both date somebody who you're trying to change?  It just seems like you're setting yourself up for a major crash and burn failure? 

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TBM girlfriend? Yikes. How did that happen? What does she think of you going to counseling? Is she receptive to being in a mixed relationship? Does she view you as someone who will never be a member, or someone who has gone through a hard time and will soon be ready to come back to the fold? Even though it is painful, it sounds gut wrenching to go through two failed marriages because of the church.

 

If you feel like you want to see a counselor, look into finding one on your own. The one your mom chose might be great - but going to that one will only reinforce the idea that she is in charge of you to both you and her.You aren't a child, and she needs to know that you will take responsibility for yourself.

 

My Dad has never asked about the reasons I left because he doesn't want to know. Does your mom know why you left? Does she consider your reasons valid?

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Bringitdown:
Chterrible:

 I feel like I 've been treading mormon water trying to escape it and swim for shore for 8 years.  It wears me out. and I still feel afraid if I stop swimmming ill sink and be sucked back into it.  I dont want that.  How do I escape for real?

 

Have you resigned?  That sends a pretty clear message that you don't want to have anything to do with the church.  Don't take this the wrong way, but if you're postmo and you know the church isn't true, why would you date a TBM?  I just don't get that.  I'm sure she's a great girl but after having my mind screwed with by the church my entire life I wouldn't date another TBM if she had a billion dollars and was the hottest thing on earth...

 

Obviously you haven't told your family about your non-belief in mormonism.  Do you still attend?  What do they think your activity status with the church is?

 

I have not yet resigned.  I should do that.  I had long just figured why even bother with it.

 

My family actually does know.  They know well. I was outted by this TBM girlfriend last may.  The sad thing is is that this  isnt far from the truth.

 

I have been honest with them about how I am and what I believe and that its not going to change.  But they seem to ignore it and try to do little things to urge me back in.....and Im afraid this councelling thing is another one....more concerned with my beliefs then my need for a councellor....but as I said maybe thats paranoia,

 

I look back and realize that I should have avoided a TBM at all costs.  It is hard to look at things as deal breakers when it was such a bitter pill to swallow when it was made apparent that it was a deal breaker in my ex marriage....to quote peter mary again.

 

I know I need to get drastic to cut free for good.   But being in and around it all my life..and all of my real life personal life based in it....it seems really hard right now to get it all behind me...and I feel in the middle of the battle more than ever before when I thought I had made so much progress to get out.

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Cogito Ergo Sum = “I think, therefore I am.” (Descartes) The latin word “Cogito” is also a play on words. Co=together, Gito=shake….a second meaning of the phrase is, “I shake things up, therefore I am.” (Greary.)

 
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Chterrible:

I went through a divorce just under 2 years ago.  My loss of faith played a role in it, but the main issues were more just differences in personalities.  We had an extremely fast post missionary marriage and found out pretty quickly that we were  2 very different people.  Over the next four years (which was also the timeframe in which I fell away from mormonism) we grew more and more distant.  We than moved to las vegas where we grew even more distant and a few years later it all ended when I caught her in an affair.  Simple version.  6 years has a lot more issues than just that, anyone married could attest.  But yes...she was and is the TBM.  Strangely enough I have another few friends where this happened as well..the TBM has the affair due to the non believer pulling away.

 

Anyway, things got ugly in the divorce. They had never been ugly to that point.  We had never fought when we were together.  It was purely in the separation that we started getting real.

 

I really never blamed her for the affair.  I knew I had pulled away both emotionally and physically for years.  JUST A NOTE FOR THE OTHERS QUESTIONING LIVING A DOUBLE LIFE FOR A MARRIAGE...THIS WILL HAPPEN WHETHER YOU MEAN IT TO OR NOT IF YOU DONT COME OUT ABOUT YOUR TRUE THOUGHTS......

 

Anyway, more than 2 years later and here I am with a TBM girlfriend and my TBM family begging me to see a councellor.  So signed up to see one today...after 2 and a half years.

 

I do not deny that I probably need to see one.  BUt I think that they are all expecting different results then will come out of it.  I am sure they all have it in their heads that I fell away from the church because of the divorce.  They just dont register that the one preceeded the other.

 

Other than that I dont terribly understand why I should see a councelor.  I suppose things will be revealed to me as I go talk to her. 

 

I am going to a professional recommended by my mother and sister.  And I have to tell you, I am skeptical that she might be TBM (I have no idea) and this whole thing might be an ambush to try to get me back in....

 

I still feel surrounded by mormonsim with no escape and as if everyone is trying everything they can to suck me back in using long term methods.  Paranoia?  Maybe......but maybe not.

 

I come here as one of my only outlets.....but I still dont feel as though I have a real escape or real possibilites for a life completely away from mormonism.  I dont want to sign back up to a TBM gal and be guilted and forced to participate in the mo world....but I think she is the greatest person otherwise and dont know what to do with her....especially after my divorce.  I think moving on with her would be setting myself up for another failure. But I dont know how to cut it off either..Or know if I want to.

 

 I dont even know why I wrote this.   I just feel like I can echo the godfather's saying "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."  I feel like I 've been treading mormon water trying to escape it and swim for shore for 8 years.  It wears me out. and I still feel afraid if I stop swimmming ill sink and be sucked back into it.  I dont want that.  How do I escape for real?

 Is this what you really, truly want??

 

If so then get professional counselling from someone you have chosen, not someone your mother or sister or aunt or anyone else for that matter has chosen.

 

Maybe, just maybe in those counselling sessions you will discover why you keep allowing yourself to be sucked back in and then you can move forward on your terms.

 

Chterrible - it seems to me that you keep giving your power away to others and dating a TBM is right up there.

 

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Honor The Past, Live The Present, Create The Future


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If there’s someone who makes your blood boil, thank him.
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I'm a really non-confrontational person.  I also think TBM's are good people.  It's not that they are bad or malicious at all.  However - they are TBM's!  You can't expect them to act like they are not. 

 

I've learned this lesson many times, but most recently when I offered to buy some mishies groceries at the store.  Just wanted to be nice.  That's all.  Of course I knew what they were about, but was thinking I could pay, tell them I wasn't interested and that was it.  No, no, it did not happen like that.  To make matters worse this story was no doubt brought up in church as being faith promoting.

 

You can't expect them to act like they aren't TBM's, you can't expect them to be an exception. 

 

I don't know how you got involved with this TBM girlfriend, but it's a really bad idea.  We have people find this site over dating TBM's and the advice is always 100% - run the other direction!  It's a bad idea.  I know it's not so cut and dried when you have time and emotional energy invested - but come on! 

 

Also, please don't see a therapist unless YOU want to or feel you need to.  You can't do that for another person.  And please find someone that YOU like, not let someone else pick a therapist for you.  If the therapist is TBM or even religiously based you are going to get told to pray about your issues and seek healing in the Atonement.  Not helpful!

 

Best of luck to you!

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Some great advice here.

 

I guess thats why I posted.  I think I needed to hear from people on my side of the debate.

 

 

I am pretty firm in my beliefs.  Nothing could make me buy back into it. NOTHING. But being surrounded by it all the time I feel like Im losing my mind and giving consideration to things I know I shouldnt.

 

Thanks for the insight.

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Cogito Ergo Sum = “I think, therefore I am.” (Descartes) The latin word “Cogito” is also a play on words. Co=together, Gito=shake….a second meaning of the phrase is, “I shake things up, therefore I am.” (Greary.)

 
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Chterrible:

Some great advice here.

 

I guess thats why I posted.  I think I needed to hear from people on my side of the debate.

 

 

I am pretty firm in my beliefs.  Nothing could make me buy back into it. NOTHING. But being surrounded by it all the time I feel like Im losing my mind and giving consideration to things I know I shouldnt.

 

Thanks for the insight.

 

If it's a possibility, get the heck out of Dodge.

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i'm missing something.  Why would you date a TBM?

 

Actually LMR's post on the Matrix was timely.

 

Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

 

You're sleeping with the enemy.  It may not be her fault but she's still part of the system you are trying to get away from.

 

End it?

 
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Another thought:  You are out when you decide you are out and do what you gotta do to follow through on being out.
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Honor The Past, Live The Present, Create The Future


J9 When you need me I am here for you.


If there’s someone who makes your blood boil, thank him.
He’s showing you what you need to know to become a kinder person.
He’s doing the best he can and so are you.
Byron Katie 2008

 
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Blue Skies:
Chterrible:

Some great advice here.

 

I guess thats why I posted.  I think I needed to hear from people on my side of the debate.

 

 

I am pretty firm in my beliefs.  Nothing could make me buy back into it. NOTHING. But being surrounded by it all the time I feel like Im losing my mind and giving consideration to things I know I shouldnt.

 

Thanks for the insight.

 

If it's a possibility, get the heck out of Dodge.

 

 Was just going to come back to post something about this. Judging by your Rubio's incident, I assume you're a Salt Laker, right?  (Me too)  How can you NOT feel surrounded by Mormonism sometimes?  If you are sufficiently unconnected, a new city, with new friends who have only the dimmest notion of what Mormonism is might be more therapeutic than an actual therapist.

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Chterrible:

...we grew even more distant and a few years later it all ended when I caught her in an affair.  Simple version.  6 years has a lot more issues than just that, anyone married could attest.  But yes...she was and is the TBM.  Strangely enough I have another few friends where this happened as well..the TBM has the affair due to the non believer pulling away.  

 

I found out recently that a friend of mine was holding onto  the church for his TBM wife. She had an affair too.

 

Strange things brewing in Mormonism.

 

Sorry to hear the troubles you're going through.  Good luck with the counselor -- and with figuring out what to do with your girlfriend situation. (No advice from me. I'm the last one on earth to be giving relationship advice.)

 
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Here's info. about how cultic Mormonism 'programs' people: http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/

 

You need to stop living your life according to what Mormons, including your family members and girlfriend, want, think is 'right', believe is the 'will of God', etc. You're the captain of the ship of your life; you're in command.

 

Don't base your self-esteem on your marital status (being married = you're a 'better' person in cultic Mo-ism). Marriage is a human-made institution and has as much or little meaning as people give it (with their thoughts). The same is true for being divorced.

 

The past is like water that has passed under the bridge of here/now upon which we stand; it's not coming back. The future is filled with possibilities. 

 

What do you want out of life? What do you want to do with your remaining existence? What do you want to experience? What are you passionate about? You get to create the life you want, so choose with integrity to your inner truth. If you need to take time to figure out what that is, do so.

 

Re. counseling, be aware (beware!) that 'faithful' Mormon psychologists, LDS Social Services counselors, and other believing LDS mental health professionals are themselves psychologically dysfunctional because they believe nonsensical LDS 'spiritual' teachings/ideas (there are so many) as well as Mormon propaganda about JS and early church history. I strongly suggest that you stay away from them.

 

I also strongly suggest that you break up with your TBM girlfriend. As long as she's psychologically chained to cultic Mormonism, you'll never be what she's been 'programmed' to believe she needs (e.g., a 'righteous' priesthood-holder who has a 'strong' testimony and will be 'worthy' and take her to the temple to marry her).

 

For your psychological and emotional well-being and the overall quality of your life, you need to liberate yourself from cultic Mormonism. We can help with posts (search for ones that I've done on this board if you want more info. about cultic Mo-ism), but you have to become your savior/liberator.

 

It comes down to choices and action. Choose and act in accordance with your inner truth, your judgments and sense of what's best for you, whether anyone else agrees with you or not. 

 

Best wishes!

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StepfordWife:

i'm missing something.  Why would you date a TBM?

 

Actually LMR's post on the Matrix was timely.

 

Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

 

You're sleeping with the enemy.  It may not be her fault but she's still part of the system you are trying to get away from.

 

End it?

 

Thats a great way of looking at it. 

 

I hadnt thought of it that way before.

 

As I stated before, the same way I hated being tossed out with the trash for my beliefs....I didnt want to do that to anyone else. 

 

Also, it is a longer story than is interesting.  But Ill condense.  Skip the rest of the post if you bore easily

 

How a Divorcee getting out of a TBM relatioship ends up with a TBM Girlfriend. sorry if its pieced together sporadically

 

I was 2 months out of the marriage and feeling pretty down on myself and living in las vegas virtually alone after the separation.  I was extremely embarrassed about the divorce and didnt know what to do. I had been away from my family and friends for years.  I left Salt Lake a supposedley married goody 2 shoe mormon boy, and didnt know how to come back a divorced, nonmormon, freak. 

 

My friend set me up with her.  She was in Salt Lake and I was in Vegas.  He told me she was single attractive nice and funny and mormon.  I, at that time, IMMEDIATELY discounted my chances with her.   He had no idea I had become a postmo...any way, I just though..it will be a date....what better way to get out there again then just go on a date with a harmless mormon gal.

 

I went out with her, had fun, and thought nothing of it.   She was very pretty and sweet.  And I really figured divorced, falling apart me had no chance w/ her.  But I felt a million bucks to be back out there after everything I had been through.

 

I was shocked a few weeks later when I found out she wanted to date me more. My friend called me and told me. I made no effort to set up follow-up dates. I really figured I had no chance.

 

I think I was shocked that this type of person could be interested in me again and I went along with it for my own pride.

 

Since we lived in seperate cities, the first 6 months were just get togethers here and there when one or the other was in the others' city. So I still didnt think much of it.  Just a good time out to help me get my bearings again.

 

SO, by the time  I moved back to salt lake..we had only dated several times...but it was like a 6 month old relationship.  I saw her more over the summer, but we kept it very light, because she knew I was coming out of the divorce.  WEll it started getting more serious and obviously started eating at me that I needed to tell her where I was religiously.  The subject had just never come up.

 

Finally last may, I confessed to her I about my beliefs. It was hard. I talked to her all night in a car telling her as much as I could about my process....well, She reacted by going and telling my family. All hell broke loose.  My family started coming at me trying to send me articles and what not....they didnt really know... We broke up at that time becasue I was infuriated.  A few months later we started hanging out here and there again (the first time was becasue she wanted to apologize to me for outing me to my family)  So we had several conversations on it..I even bore my testimony-for lack of a better term- to her about the falseness of the gospel.   She keeps saying its not an issue.  Anyway, after getting together for several discussions on it...somehow we have ended up back together and now SHE is pushing me to see a councelor.

 

But then she always drops hints showing me that she doesnt believe my position.

 

She will say things that Im her dream man.  Ill ask how?  She will say....you have a job, play the guitar are nice handsome and mormon. (This is after my testimony of the falseness of the church)  Ill correct her and say I'm not mormon.   

She'll say oh yeah I forget, youre still a better mormon then most mormons I know.  She'll also make comments saying that she thinks my issues arent with the church, they are with my ex. 

 

She states she would want children to go to church and that she would expect a husband to go with her.  I have spent long hours considering if that were possible. But she is completely just a traditional mormon. and when I talk too much about history or doctorine she says, I dont care about all that, thats boring.

 

My family all likes her and of course wants me to stay with her.

 

I m ranting too long...... All I know is Im at my wits end, and cant help but feel like an asshole if I dump a sweet attractive girl that has been there for me for 2 years after my divorce...who cant get it through her head I dont want to be mormon.  My family and she will never understand a break up for that reason.  Especially when she is claiming she can work through it and doesnt expect me to be mormon...but then her actions and hints say otherwise.  AAAAAAAAAARGH  As I type this stuff though....I feel I want out....badly

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Zenock-Knock:
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Chterrible:

Some great advice here.

 

I guess thats why I posted.  I think I needed to hear from people on my side of the debate.

 

 

I am pretty firm in my beliefs.  Nothing could make me buy back into it. NOTHING. But being surrounded by it all the time I feel like Im losing my mind and giving consideration to things I know I shouldnt.

 

Thanks for the insight.

 

If it's a possibility, get the heck out of Dodge.

 

 Was just going to come back to post something about this. Judging by your Rubio's incident, I assume you're a Salt Laker, right?  (Me too)  How can you NOT feel surrounded by Mormonism sometimes?  If you are sufficiently unconnected, a new city, with new friends who have only the dimmest notion of what Mormonism is might be more therapeutic than an actual therapist.

 

I have thought about this a hundred times....Just run for the hills and start over in another city.

 

Ill tell you though, It was tough when I was in vegas all alone....so I came back to a support group in utah....well my support group is all part of a twisted religion.

 

I cant complain about too many things in life really...in comparison to whats out there....but damn....it sure seems like I should be able to complain about being dealt mormonism to deal with.......

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Zenock-Knock:

I agree with Bringitdown: A TBM girlfriend, especially if the relationship progresses to the next natural phase, is a recipe for a lifetime in the Mormon universe. I know it's easy to say as I sit here with a TBM wife I can't talk to, but were I in the market, I think finding out a woman was a Mormon believer would mean a pretty early disqualification.  But I know sometimes we aren't completely in control of our attractions.  Unfortunately, your family may very well see your dating a TBM as an opportunity to try to get you back on the path.  And what about her?  Does she see you as a project?

 

Personally, I don't  expect to ever be free of Mormonism.  Even if I end up single again, I still have a whole TBM family who pray for my eventual return.  Plus, I spent 35 years as a believer; you can't just leave that behind.  I would be very surprised to hear of anyone who really, truly left the church behind.  Of course, anyone who DID leave it all behind wouldn't be posting here.

 

Thanks for the nudge.  Best wishes to you.

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First off, what is the objective of seeing a counselor? Is it to deal with your divorce? or to deal with Mormons?

 

If you are still struggling with the divorce, it can help to have a somewhat non partisan person to discuss things with and overcome them. And I applaud you for that.

 

But if its for dealing with Mormons and such, I would object. 

 

1st off, I would recommend against living a double life just for the sake of your significant other. You will someday come to resent his/her life choices and cause yourself more emotional pain than necessary. If you can be honest and upfront with them, and they can respect that, inspite of your differences, you are still in for a world of hurt in my opinion. I know of very few relationships that can deal with the normal stresses of life, and maintain 2 sets of values. What happens when you have kids and mom forces the kids to go to church while the dad goes golfing or hangs around watching football? My wife is the product of such a union and still is dealing with parents that somehow love each other, yet have no common ground or ideals and contradict each other in almost every instance. Going to church and hearing people talk about how evil things like drinking coffe or wine is, and coming home to dad having to hide the coffee maker in the bathroom when the visiting teachers come over, and somehow think thats ok, creates tremendous juxtaposition that is often detrimental

 

In my opinion you need to find a person who respects you and loves you for YOU. And not forcing you to be or think in a way you don't. Sure we all need to make small concessions in all relationships. But if she wants you to see a counselor about your faith and beliefs, she is in love with what she wants you to become, not who you are. In the words of N Eldon Tanner "Remember who you are"

 
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Gilgal:
Chterrible:

...we grew even more distant and a few years later it all ended when I caught her in an affair.  Simple version.  6 years has a lot more issues than just that, anyone married could attest.  But yes...she was and is the TBM.  Strangely enough I have another few friends where this happened as well..the TBM has the affair due to the non believer pulling away.  

 

I found out recently that a friend of mine was holding onto  the church for his TBM wife. She had an affair too.

 

Strange things brewing in Mormonism.

 

Sorry to hear the troubles you're going through.  Good luck with the counselor -- and with figuring out what to do with your girlfriend situation. (No advice from me. I'm the last one on earth to be giving relationship advice.)

 

Gilgal, It really is a strange little phenomenon.  The TBM acting up more than the one losing the religion.....yet in the scenario, people will view the one losing the religion as the cause of all that happened.

 

I know of at least 4 similar situations.  And I cant even start to grasp the cog dis that must be going on in the cheaters' heads.  

 

I dont judge them very harshly.  Obviously, it is a confusing situation for all.

 

Another reason I really dislike the church.  Everyone builds their marriage on a foundation of BS.  How is calamity not supposed to ensue when it tumbles down?

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Chterrible - IMO from what you say about this relationship with this girl (as nice as she may be and as supportive as she has been) she is NOT dating YOU she is dating what she wants you to be.  And unless you change to her version of you you will never be happy and neither will she or anyone else around either and/or both of you.
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Chterrible:
StepfordWife:

i'm missing something.  Why would you date a TBM?

 

Actually LMR's post on the Matrix was timely.

 

Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

 

You're sleeping with the enemy.  It may not be her fault but she's still part of the system you are trying to get away from.

 

End it?

 

Thats a great way of looking at it. 

 

I hadnt thought of it that way before.

 

As I stated before, the same way I hated being tossed out with the trash for my beliefs....I didnt want to do that to anyone else. 

 

Also, it is a longer story than is interesting.  But Ill condense.  Skip the rest of the post if you bore easily

 

How a Divorcee getting out of a TBM relatioship ends up with a TBM Girlfriend. sorry if its pieced together sporadically

 

I was 2 months out of the marriage and feeling pretty down on myself and living in las vegas virtually alone after the separation.  I was extremely embarrassed about the divorce and didnt know what to do. I had been away from my family and friends for years.  I left Salt Lake a supposedley married goody 2 shoe mormon boy, and didnt know how to come back a divorced, nonmormon, freak. 

 

My friend set me up with her.  She was in Salt Lake and I was in Vegas.  He told me she was single attractive nice and funny and mormon.  I, at that time, IMMEDIATELY discounted my chances with her.   He had no idea I had become a postmo...any way, I just though..it will be a date....what better way to get out there again then just go on a date with a harmless mormon gal.

 

I went out with her, had fun, and thought nothing of it.   She was very pretty and sweet.  And I really figured divorced, falling apart me had no chance w/ her.  But I felt a million bucks to be back out there after everything I had been through.

 

I was shocked a few weeks later when I found out she wanted to date me more. My friend called me and told me. I made no effort to set up follow-up dates. I really figured I had no chance.

 

I think I was shocked that this type of person could be interested in me again and I went along with it for my own pride.

 

Since we lived in seperate cities, the first 6 months were just get togethers here and there when one or the other was in the others' city. So I still didnt think much of it.  Just a good time out to help me get my bearings again.

 

SO, by the time  I moved back to salt lake..we had only dated several times...but it was like a 6 month old relationship.  I saw her more over the summer, but we kept it very light, because she knew I was coming out of the divorce.  WEll it started getting more serious and obviously started eating at me that I needed to tell her where I was religiously.  The subject had just never come up.

 

Finally last may, I confessed to her I about my beliefs. It was hard. I talked to her all night in a car telling her as much as I could about my process....well, She reacted by going and telling my family. All hell broke loose.  My family started coming at me trying to send me articles and what not....they didnt really know... We broke up at that time becasue I was infuriated.  A few months later we started hanging out here and there again (the first time was becasue she wanted to apologize to me for outing me to my family)  So we had several conversations on it..I even bore my testimony-for lack of a better term- to her about the falseness of the gospel.   She keeps saying its not an issue.  Anyway, after getting together for several discussions on it...somehow we have ended up back together and now SHE is pushing me to see a councelor.

 

But then she always drops hints showing me that she doesnt believe my position.

 

She will say things that Im her dream man.  Ill ask how?  She will say....you have a job, play the guitar are nice handsome and mormon. (This is after my testimony of the falseness of the church)  Ill correct her and say I'm not mormon.   

She'll say oh yeah I forget, youre still a better mormon then most mormons I know.  She'll also make comments saying that she thinks my issues arent with the church, they are with my ex. 

 

She states she would want children to go to church and that she would expect a husband to go with her.  I have spent long hours considering if that were possible. But she is completely just a traditional mormon. and when I talk too much about history or doctorine she says, I dont care about all that, thats boring.

 

My family all likes her and of course wants me to stay with her.

 

I m ranting too long...... All I know is Im at my wits end, and cant help but feel like an asshole if I dump a sweet attractive girl that has been there for me for 2 years after my divorce...who cant get it through her head I dont want to be mormon.  My family and she will never understand a break up for that reason.  Especially when she is claiming she can work through it and doesnt expect me to be mormon...but then her actions and hints say otherwise.  AAAAAAAAAARGH  As I type this stuff though....I feel I want out....badly

 I think I can see you have arrived at this position.

 

 Dude, this can only end in tears one way or another. 

 

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Chterrible:

She will say things that Im her dream man.  Ill ask how?  She will say....you have a job, play the guitar are nice handsome and mormon. (This is after my testimony of the falseness of the church)  Ill correct her and say I'm not mormon.   

She'll say oh yeah I forget, youre still a better mormon then most mormons I know.  She'll also make comments saying that she thinks my issues arent with the church, they are with my ex. 

 

She states she would want children to go to church and that she would expect a husband to go with her.  I have spent long hours considering if that were possible. But she is completely just a traditional mormon. and when I talk too much about history or doctorine she says, I dont care about all that, thats boring.

Barf. Can you do that for her? What do you do about church now?

 

What? She thinks your reasons for making a life altering choice are boring?? It's just the cognitive dissonance, but that is seriously callous thing for her to say.

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Chterrible: 

 

She states she would want children to go to church and that she would expect a husband to go with her.  I have spent long hours considering if that were possible. But she is completely just a traditional mormon. and when I talk too much about history or doctorine she says, I dont care about all that, thats boring. 

 

 

Dude. I'm sorry, are seriously reading your own words? She calls you "Mormon" and says she doesn't care about the history and doctrine and expects you to go with her to church.

 

Welcome to my marriage. It's a disaster.

 

You may love this woman -- even a lot -- but you're headed for some trouble. I think you know it. You initially said you didn't know why you were posting all this on here. I think you know. You're thinking out loud, trying to figure out how to proceed.

 

I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I'm glad you're thinking it out. Good luck!

 
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Rico Suave:

First off, what is the objective of seeing a counselor? Is it to deal with your divorce? or to deal with Mormons?

If you are still struggling with the divorce, it can help to have a somewhat non partisan person to discuss things with and overcome them. And I applaud you for that.

But if its for dealing with Mormons and such, I would object. 

 

 

 

In my opinion you need to find a person who respects you and loves you for YOU. And not forcing you to be or think in a way you don't. Sure we all need to make small concessions in all relationships. But if she wants you to see a counselor about your faith and beliefs, she is in love with what she wants you to become, not who you are. In the words of N Eldon Tanner "Remember who you are"

I really dont know.  I think I should have done it for the divorce a while back. Although I really dont feel that out of control about it.

I think mormonism might become a hot topic if I do go speak with one...obviously.  I really do feel it is the bain of my existence.  

 

Sometimes doesnt seem possible in Salt LAke :/

 

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Zenock-Knock:
Chterrible:
StepfordWife:

i'm missing something.  Why would you date a TBM?

 

Actually LMR's post on the Matrix was timely.

 

Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

 

You're sleeping with the enemy.  It may not be her fault but she's still part of the system you are trying to get away from.

 

End it?

 

Thats a great way of looking at it. 

 

I hadnt thought of it that way before.

 

As I stated before, the same way I hated being tossed out with the trash for my beliefs....I didnt want to do that to anyone else. 

 

Also, it is a longer story than is interesting.  But Ill condense.  Skip the rest of the post if you bore easily

 

How a Divorcee getting out of a TBM relatioship ends up with a TBM Girlfriend. sorry if its pieced together sporadically

 

I was 2 months out of the marriage and feeling pretty down on myself and living in las vegas virtually alone after the separation.  I was extremely embarrassed about the divorce and didnt know what to do. I had been away from my family and friends for years.  I left Salt Lake a supposedley married goody 2 shoe mormon boy, and didnt know how to come back a divorced, nonmormon, freak. 

 

My friend set me up with her.  She was in Salt Lake and I was in Vegas.  He told me she was single attractive nice and funny and mormon.  I, at that time, IMMEDIATELY discounted my chances with her.   He had no idea I had become a postmo...any way, I just though..it will be a date....what better way to get out there again then just go on a date with a harmless mormon gal.

 

I went out with her, had fun, and thought nothing of it.   She was very pretty and sweet.  And I really figured divorced, falling apart me had no chance w/ her.  But I felt a million bucks to be back out there after everything I had been through.

 

I was shocked a few weeks later when I found out she wanted to date me more. My friend called me and told me. I made no effort to set up follow-up dates. I really figured I had no chance.

 

I think I was shocked that this type of person could be interested in me again and I went along with it for my own pride.

 

Since we lived in seperate cities, the first 6 months were just get togethers here and there when one or the other was in the others' city. So I still didnt think much of it.  Just a good time out to help me get my bearings again.

 

SO, by the time  I moved back to salt lake..we had only dated several times...but it was like a 6 month old relationship.  I saw her more over the summer, but we kept it very light, because she knew I was coming out of the divorce.  WEll it started getting more serious and obviously started eating at me that I needed to tell her where I was religiously.  The subject had just never come up.

 

Finally last may, I confessed to her I about my beliefs. It was hard. I talked to her all night in a car telling her as much as I could about my process....well, She reacted by going and telling my family. All hell broke loose.  My family started coming at me trying to send me articles and what not....they didnt really know... We broke up at that time becasue I was infuriated.  A few months later we started hanging out here and there again (the first time was becasue she wanted to apologize to me for outing me to my family)  So we had several conversations on it..I even bore my testimony-for lack of a better term- to her about the falseness of the gospel.   She keeps saying its not an issue.  Anyway, after getting together for several discussions on it...somehow we have ended up back together and now SHE is pushing me to see a councelor.

 

But then she always drops hints showing me that she doesnt believe my position.

 

She will say things that Im her dream man.  Ill ask how?  She will say....you have a job, play the guitar are nice handsome and mormon. (This is after my testimony of the falseness of the church)  Ill correct her and say I'm not mormon.   

She'll say oh yeah I forget, youre still a better mormon then most mormons I know.  She'll also make comments saying that she thinks my issues arent with the church, they are with my ex. 

 

She states she would want children to go to church and that she would expect a husband to go with her.  I have spent long hours considering if that were possible. But she is completely just a traditional mormon. and when I talk too much about history or doctorine she says, I dont care about all that, thats boring.

 

My family all likes her and of course wants me to stay with her.

 

I m ranting too long...... All I know is Im at my wits end, and cant help but feel like an asshole if I dump a sweet attractive girl that has been there for me for 2 years after my divorce...who cant get it through her head I dont want to be mormon.  My family and she will never understand a break up for that reason.  Especially when she is claiming she can work through it and doesnt expect me to be mormon...but then her actions and hints say otherwise.  AAAAAAAAAARGH  As I type this stuff though....I feel I want out....badly

 I think I can see you have arrived at this position.

 

 Dude, this can only end in tears one way or another. 

 

Pretty poignant use of a highlighter.

 

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

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That is a lot of drama.  Not that it isn't real. It is. Its just messy which is how life is getting out of a mind controlling cult.  my exit was really no less messy i was just better at hiding all my crazy shit since that's what i had always done anyway.

 

i think you are in the phase my Husband was in for about the first 3 years after he left.  He still gave mormonism credence as a religion.  He didn't want to call it a cult.  He still thought religion in general was valuable for creating order in society and passing down age old wisdom.  i fought and fought with him over this.

 

It hasn't been until the last year that he really sees it for what it is.  That he sees basically all controlling religions for what they are.

 

You're trying to respect your families belief system but by doing so you are elevating that belief system in your own mind to the level of something acceptable.  You are basically saying it's not for me personally but i respect it as a valid belief system for other people.

 

Have you read any Sam Harris?  The book "The End of Faith" might be really good for you.  It illustrates very clearly how moderate believers, and casual practitioners of religion actually lend credence to extremists by propping up the foundation of the system.

 

i respect an individual's right to believe what they want.  i don't respect whatever they believe, not by a long shot.  i respect an individual's right to be a racist bigot member of the KKK.  i have zero respect for the KKK or its members.  Respecting an individual's RIGHT to keep their head in the sand is not the same as respecting them and their refusal to pull their head out.

 

i have to say i am a bit baffled why you would want to attach yourself to someone who remains brainwashed.  How can you even carry on meaningful dialog?

 

When i go visit extended family or talk to my in-laws we pretty much stick to the weather and technology.  There are very few meaningful subjects we can converse about without bumping up against the elephant in the room.  It's anathama to me why you would want to continue a relationship with someone when it means you will once again have that elephant in your home and in your bedroom when you barely managed to get away from it the first time.

 

Remember the saying about doing the same thing expecting different results?

 
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TruthR:
Chterrible - IMO from what you say about this relationship with this girl (as nice as she may be and as supportive as she has been) she is NOT dating YOU she is dating what she wants you to be.  And unless you change to her version of you you will never be happy and neither will she or anyone else around either and/or both of you.

 

 I have felt that, and not really been able to verbalize it. 

 

WHo the hell needs a counselor when you have postmo.

 

I feel Ive been bombarded with logic about this situation for the first time.

 

 

Thanks all for considering my problem and giving advice.

 

Its like a free counselor in surround sound.

 

 

Now let me ask this.   Does anyone think a counselor could do more than just the advice I have recieved here?  Or am i waisting my money???

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Chterrible:

Sometimes doesnt seem possible in Salt LAke :/

 

 

7 years after leaving the church, I met a fantastic woman in SLC of all places.  She left the church during college, albeit for reasons not at all similar to mine. 

 

I would be upfront and honest with people you date. Let them know you are no longer mormon, not interested, and especially do not want to become a 'project' of sorts to see if they can turn you back into one.

 

I know that SLC can be especially daunting to find a good non-mormon or exmo significant other. But you will be surprised. Especially if you say, do some trail running up mill creek on a sunday afternoon or start hanging out at starbucks. 

 
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Chterrible:
TruthR:
Chterrible - IMO from what you say about this relationship with this girl (as nice as she may be and as supportive as she has been) she is NOT dating YOU she is dating what she wants you to be.  And unless you change to her version of you you will never be happy and neither will she or anyone else around either and/or both of you.

 

 I have felt that, and not really been able to verbalize it. 

 

WHo the hell needs a counselor when you have postmo.

 

I feel Ive been bombarded with logic about this situation for the first time.

 

 

Thanks all for considering my problem and giving advice.

 

Its like a free counselor in surround sound.

 

 

Now let me ask this.   Does anyone think a counselor could do more than just the advice I have recieved here?  Or am i waisting my money???

 Now we are getting somewhere.

 

The advice here is great, helpful, reassuring, confirming but it in no way replaces one on one with a good, qualified counsellor who can address YOUR specific issues - because there is more to you than just this issue.  IMO it is helpful to have someone guide you as you start peeling the layers, someone who can introduce you to the tools you specifically need to navigate the process and find the real YOU.

 

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A non-member therapist is probably a good idea.  Face to face time with someone who can really validate what you are experiencing and help you feel more sure of yourself would likely really help.

 

i would think this especially true living in Utard.

 
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CdnXMo:

Here's info. about how cultic Mormonism 'programs' people: http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/

 

You need to stop living your life according to what Mormons, including your family members and girlfriend, want, think is 'right', believe is the 'will of God', etc. You're the captain of the ship of your life; you're in command.

 

Don't base your self-esteem on your marital status (being married = you're a 'better' person in cultic Mo-ism). Marriage is a human-made institution and has as much or little meaning as people give it (with their thoughts). The same is true for being divorced.

 

The past is like water that has passed under the bridge of here/now upon which we stand; it's not coming back. The future is filled with possibilities. 

 

What do you want out of life? What do you want to do with your remaining existence? What do you want to experience? What are you passionate about? You get to create the life you want, so choose with integrity to your inner truth. If you need to take time to figure out what that is, do so.

 

Re. counseling, be aware (beware!) that 'faithful' Mormon psychologists, LDS Social Services counselors, and other believing LDS mental health professionals are themselves psychologically dysfunctional because they believe nonsensical LDS 'spiritual' teachings/ideas (there are so many) as well as Mormon propaganda about JS and early church history. I strongly suggest that you stay away from them.

 

I also strongly suggest that you break up with your TBM girlfriend. As long as she's psychologically chained to cultic Mormonism, you'll never be what she's been 'programmed' to believe she needs (e.g., a 'righteous' priesthood-holder who has a 'strong' testimony and will be 'worthy' and take her to the temple to marry her).

 

For your psychological and emotional well-being and the overall quality of your life, you need to liberate yourself from cultic Mormonism. We can help with posts (search for ones that I've done on this board if you want more info. about cultic Mo-ism), but you have to become your savior/liberator.

 

It comes down to choices and action. Choose and act in accordance with your inner truth, your judgments and sense of what's best for you, whether anyone else agrees with you or not. 

 

Best wishes!

Chterrible---I took CndXMo's paper to MY counselor.  It was the best thing I have ever done.  My counselor is not a member and it was really hard for him to wrap his head around mo'ism because mo's are so good at presenting the "every member a missionary" self for the rest of the world to see.   I would strongly suggest you read it and really consider how being a mo affects your life.  I feel like you are trying to walk the "good guy" tightrope.  You are trying really hard to make those around you happy and you don't want to hurt any feelings.  I feel like you are setting yourself up for failure because you can't be what they are wanting and it seems like everyone else's happiness is more important than yours.  

 

I totally agree with this statement and you have to decide that you have to own your own happiness.  

 

Good luck---sounds like you are in a pickle, but you are in a position of not having kids to worry about and that makes it a million times easier. 

 

 
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stubborndane:
CdnXMo:

Here's info. about how cultic Mormonism 'programs' people: http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/

 

You need to stop living your life according to what Mormons, including your family members and girlfriend, want, think is 'right', believe is the 'will of God', etc. You're the captain of the ship of your life; you're in command.

 

Don't base your self-esteem on your marital status (being married = you're a 'better' person in cultic Mo-ism). Marriage is a human-made institution and has as much or little meaning as people give it (with their thoughts). The same is true for being divorced.

 

The past is like water that has passed under the bridge of here/now upon which we stand; it's not coming back. The future is filled with possibilities. 

 

What do you want out of life? What do you want to do with your remaining existence? What do you want to experience? What are you passionate about? You get to create the life you want, so choose with integrity to your inner truth. If you need to take time to figure out what that is, do so.

 

Re. counseling, be aware (beware!) that 'faithful' Mormon psychologists, LDS Social Services counselors, and other believing LDS mental health professionals are themselves psychologically dysfunctional because they believe nonsensical LDS 'spiritual' teachings/ideas (there are so many) as well as Mormon propaganda about JS and early church history. I strongly suggest that you stay away from them.

 

I also strongly suggest that you break up with your TBM girlfriend. As long as she's psychologically chained to cultic Mormonism, you'll never be what she's been 'programmed' to believe she needs (e.g., a 'righteous' priesthood-holder who has a 'strong' testimony and will be 'worthy' and take her to the temple to marry her).

 

For your psychological and emotional well-being and the overall quality of your life, you need to liberate yourself from cultic Mormonism. We can help with posts (search for ones that I've done on this board if you want more info. about cultic Mo-ism), but you have to become your savior/liberator.

 

It comes down to choices and action. Choose and act in accordance with your inner truth, your judgments and sense of what's best for you, whether anyone else agrees with you or not. 

 

Best wishes!

Chterrible---I took CndXMo's paper to MY counselor.  It was the best thing I have ever done.  My counselor is not a member and it was really hard for him to wrap his head around mo'ism because mo's are so good at presenting the "every member a missionary" self for the rest of the world to see.   I would strongly suggest you read it and really consider how being a mo affects your life.  I feel like you are trying to walk the "good guy" tightrope.  You are trying really hard to make those around you happy and you don't want to hurt any feelings.  I feel like you are setting yourself up for failure because you can't be what they are wanting and it seems like everyone else's happiness is more important than yours.  

 

I totally agree with this statement and you have to decide that you have to own your own happiness.  

 

Good luck---sounds like you are in a pickle, but you are in a position of not having kids to worry about and that makes it a million times easier. 

 

 

Thats some good stuff, thank you.  I think I will take in a copy, or do some memorization.

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Cogito Ergo Sum = “I think, therefore I am.” (Descartes) The latin word “Cogito” is also a play on words. Co=together, Gito=shake….a second meaning of the phrase is, “I shake things up, therefore I am.” (Greary.)

 
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She states she would want children to go to church and that she would expect a husband to go with her.  I have spent long hours considering if that were possible. But she is completely just a traditional mormon. and when I talk too much about history or doctorine she says, I dont care about all that, thats boring.

 

 

Dude...run for the hills and never look back.  This is a bad idea to even be dating her, for both of you.  The mormon church is a huge black hole of time, commitment, money, control, fear, manipulation and lies.

 

There are plenty of us here who have mixed marriages and they are a burden(that means they suck sometimes.) 

 

Run, run, as fast as you can....just like the gingerbread man. 

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Myths which are believed in tend to become true. George Orwell

The beginning of wisdom is found in doubting; by doubting we come to the question, and by seeking we may come upon the truth.  Pierre Abelard

“The truth is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution.”  Dumbledore

 
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Gilgal:
Chterrible: 

 

She states she would want children to go to church and that she would expect a husband to go with her.  I have spent long hours considering if that were possible. But she is completely just a traditional mormon. and when I talk too much about history or doctorine she says, I dont care about all that, thats boring. 

 

 

Dude. I'm sorry, are seriously reading your own words? She calls you "Mormon" and says she doesn't care about the history and doctrine and expects you to go with her to church.

 

Welcome to my marriage. It's a disaster.

 

You may love this woman -- even a lot -- but you're headed for some trouble. I think you know it. You initially said you didn't know why you were posting all this on here. I think you know. You're thinking out loud, trying to figure out how to proceed.

 

I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I'm glad you're thinking it out. Good luck!

When you are in the beginning of an intimate relationship, and in love, your brain actually produces chemicals that can make you euphoric and cloud your judgement. Be careful.

 

TruthR: Chterrible - IMO from what you say about this relationship with this girl (as nice as she may be and as supportive as she has been) she is NOT dating YOU she is dating what she wants you to be.  And unless you change to her version of you you will never be happy and neither will she or anyone else around either and/or both of you.

 I agree with this 100%

 

I too went through a "messy mormon divorce" two years ago. I am still not over it. It's amazing how you can live with someone for years and when you get divorced you see a side of them that just comes out of nowhere. If they choose to remain active in the church YOU are seen as the one with the problem no matter what.

 

I wonder if because you are dating a TBM everyone in your life that was worried about your salvation now has their hopes up.  My only advice is do NOT go to an LDS counselor!! 

 

 

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“Character is determined not by where you stand in times of comfort and convenience,
but where you stand in times of conflict and controversy.”
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then the world will know peace.”
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Chterrible,

 

I have been thinking about this post a bit since reading it.  I have a couple of thoughts.  First, you mentioned that you moved back to SLC because that is where your support system is.  I would ask you, are they really being a support system, or is it just that they are familiar so that is what you have gone back to?

 

Secondly, your comment about being lonely in Las Vegas got me to thinking.  I grew up as a military brat.  We moved to all kinds of crazy places, where I had to meet new people, make new friends, etc.  Granted, as a kid it is a bit easier because you are going to school and that is your social network.  So often in the church, it is at church that one establishes a new social network.  Especially for people who have been members their whole lives, it can be tough to consider that there are other places to meet people and make friends so you aren't lonely.  I would like to make some suggestions here for you to consider, in addition to the couple already listed earlier in the thread.  These would work in SLC or if you decided to leave the insanity behind.

 

Go back to college (especially if you didn't go before).

Hang out at the bookstore, coffee shop, or other store of interest on Sunday.

Go to a bar at night and look for the non-party girls.

Do some online networking looking for non-mormon people to hang out with, possibly date.

Get to know your neighbors.

If you haven't already, meet some of the fine post-mo peeps on here in person.

Join a gym.

Get a hobby and get to know other locals through it.

Get a part-time job and use it to meet new people.

 

I would also seriously recommend building up a non-mormon support base. It might be harder in Utah that just about any other state out there, but it is still totally possible.  Stand up for who you are and your beliefs.  It is very clear from what you have written that the girl you are dating is not really interested in you and your interests, just in your potential and who she wants you to be.  She has no interest in learning, and that does not bode well for a long-term relationship.  Communication is SO important in a marriage that you have to really understand and listen to one another.

 

I hope this helps give you something to think about and that you find something useful.  Best wishes to you, and thanks for your thoughtful contributions to other posts.

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Sheldon: You know, in difficult times like this, I often turn to a force stronger than myself.
Amy: Religion?
Sheldon: Star Trek.

—The Big Bang Theory

 
       
 
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