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God can lift your ‘burden,’ LDS leader tells gay Mormons
 
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On another board, this little gem of a topic was brought up for thought.

 

From the SLTribune article:

 

On Saturday, McMullin [second counselor in the Presiding Bishopric, and part of the 'Big 18'] said people with same-sex attraction should not call themselves “gay” or “lesbian.” He offered advice to LDS ecclesiastical leaders in the audience of about 200 people.

 

“If someone seeking your help says to you, ‘I am a homosexual,’ or, ‘I am lesbian,’ or, ‘I am gay,’ correct this miscasting,” McMullin said. “Heavenly Father does not speak of his children this way and neither should we. It is simply not true. To speak this way seeds a doubt and deceit about who we really are.”

 

 

While I have a brief retort, with a little something McMullin can mull about in his mouth, I've chosen a creative format to preface my remarks. Limericks, I find, can be much more entertaining and useful than parables.

McMullin says there are girls and there are boys,
And sexuality has no room for a choice. -
You're a Mars or a Venus,
With a vagina or a penis ,
But there's an appropriate place for your toys.

You're not lesbian or gay, you're just you;
And to say otherwise, says McMullin, is untrue. -
For god wouldn't play tricks,
With our pussies and dicks,
If not so, who would a queer Jesus screw?

O, silly god, you've played a hoax;
And McMullin is an ignorant oaf! -
You've created children with hearts,
And supposedly two different 'parts',
But intersexuals, you seem to have blessed with 'both'.

And so it is, Mormons, you've no plan,
For any person who's not exclusively woman or man.
Whether within or without,
There can no longer be doubt,
They can call themselves LGBT, yes they can!

Based on research reviewed from 1955 to 1998 to determine the frequency of sex variations in children that are born neither completely male or female, one in 100 births differ from standard male or female genders (Klinefelter XXY). Assuming there are 6 billion people living on the earth today, that's 60 million people currently living that are born neither completely male or female. (Blackless, Melanie, Anthony Charuvastra, Amanda Derryck, Anne Fausto-Sterling, Karl Lauzanne, and Ellen Lee. 2000. How sexually dimorphic are we? Review and synthesis. American Journal of Human Biology 12:151-166.) Undoubtedly, these individuals will have sexual urges, tendencies, and desires that are not in accord with the Mormon God or his plan of salvation.

The dick for McMullin to proverbially choke on, comes in the form of a question: How many more millions of variations are we unable to detect based on our limited technologies and our ability to 'observe' what the labels 'boy and girl' supposedly mean?

Education, as Hinckley would exclaim; Isn't it wonderful?!

 

Edited:  Fixed a link.

 
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Isn't it nice to know that EVERYONE is accepted and loved in the Mormon Church?   You just have to correct your misconceptions that gay people even exist, and then you are just fine.  
 
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LDS Missionary:

On another board, this little gem of a topic was brought up for thought.

 

From the SLTribune article:

 

On Saturday, McMullin [second counselor in the Presiding Bishopric, and part of the 'Big 18'] said people with same-sex attraction should not call themselves “gay” or “lesbian.” He offered advice to LDS ecclesiastical leaders in the audience of about 200 people.

 

“If someone seeking your help says to you, ‘I am a homosexual,’ or, ‘I am lesbian,’ or, ‘I am gay,’ correct this miscasting,” McMullin said. “Heavenly Father does not speak of his children this way and neither should we. It is simply not true. To speak this way seeds a doubt and deceit about who we really are.”

 

 

 

Sure....Heavenly Father speaks of his children in the following way:

 

Active and inactive

Righteous and wicked

Blessed and cursed

Member and non-member

Temple-worthy, member in good standing and excommunicated, etc

Chosen and gentile

 

It is also pathetic that McMullin cannot see that some people actually prefer the terms gay, lesbian, and homosexual. In a few short words he proves that he knows nothing of the topic he wishes to counsel others on.

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I think it is noteworthy that this guys training is in Banking Finance not psychology.
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I am glad the church is saying what it does on this issue.  It makes it clear how uninspired they are.  These kinds of talks and comments will one day show many others how wrong the doctrines of this church really are and were.  Just like the rotten things in the Journal Discourses that have come back to bite the church on the ass.

 

They do not care how harmful they are being to the youth of the church that are discovering their sexuality.  They have blood on their hands and I wish there really was  a just god that would "enlighten" them.

 
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I knew this sounded familiar......

 

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad skirted a question about the treatment of homosexuals in Iran on Monday, saying in a speech at a top US university that there were no gays in Iran.

 

"In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country," Ahmadinejad said to howls and boos among the Columbia University audience.

 

"In Iran we do not have this phenomenon, I don't know who has told you that we have it," he said.

 

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hATGOzv6YSmgeMY1zdYbdpyrG2cw

 

 

 
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It is nice that the church has defined it's lines.  Makes it so easy for me to say '#### YOU'!!   to them all.

 

I have to admit I spent many years of my life speaking of gay's and lesbians in hushed tones and trying to convince myself that they don't exhist, at least not in my world. 

 

What a sad realization it was for me when I realized that the church was a hoax and how awful the cult was to normal regular people who choose a different lifestyle than I did.  My father can rape his children, and minimize it and stay an excepted member, but two adults can love each other and that isn't accepted.  How twisted.

 

I have since 'repented' and am completely accepting of all kinds of lifestyles. My life is richer knowing all people and accepting every lifestyle.  What a wonderful life it is!!

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Let's be clear about what LDS Evergreen "ex-gay" therapy actually does:

 

*electro-shock and other phsyical and psychological repulsion 'therapies'

 

* "reparative therapy" teaching queer kids that it's their fault they are bullied, to act less "fem" or deserve the beatings 

 

* "shame aversion" spiritual programs that humiliate subjects into guilt at their very being

 

* all of the above and more lead to increased risk of suicide and years of torment

 

Worst of all: Somewhere in Utah, a 15yo kid is reading that God did not create him or her because God did not create gays, says the Presiding Bishop. I pray for that kid to survive.

 

 

 
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God can lift your ‘burden,’ LDS leader tells gay Mormons

This is excellent news!!  I can't wait until they make the announcements that God is  disolving the mormon church.  

That's what they mean, right? 

After all, the MAJOR burden for gay mormons is their own church, which demeans, demonizes, demoralizes and disdains them, and encourages their family and friends to deny them.  

 

 

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I say bring on these ignorant comments from church leaders.  They are creating a massive amount of "on the record" ignorance on the gay issue that rivals anything they amassed regarding women, blacks, monogamy etc.  The age of communication creates like a reverse dog years effect on this crap.  In other words, these horrendous statments and all the others like them by church leaders regarding homosexuality is not going to bite them in the ass 20 years from now when someone finally goes to all of the books and libraries and microfish and compiles it.  It is going to bite them in the ass immediatly over and over again as the country moves more secular and becomes more respectful regarding these civil rights.

 

They will have made these statements in the last 10 years and it will make them look like they are coming out of the 1940s.

 

think about what this dude just said regarding someone who IS gay, "just say your not gay"  don't refer to yourself that way..........

 

you can't get much more insulting or stupid....the church continues to define what a person is.  they continue to try to set the rules regarding what people can be and on top of that provide the content on whether that is good or not.  They can do this because they talk to god and this is gods church.  Sounds great.

 

please keep it up.

 

now, the only thing wrong with my little rant is that the goddamn church is damaging real people right now with these kinds of statements.  unfortunately, these peoples stories, those casualties will have to stand alonside the ignorant statements by church leaders against the church.

 

frankly, that is not a bad idea, amass all of these statements and the churchs history regarding homosexuality and put it together with real gay member stories, their horrific stories of trying to live their life and how the church ruins it.  THAT would be a great website.

 

does it already exist?

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When my first daughter was born my ex's parents started noticing that she slept with her left arm up and her right arm down, and her legs bent in the same arrangement. They had read some bizarre report that if infants favored the left hand that they'd become left handed and the statistics showed that left handedness led to lower reading and test scores in students.

 

They would nag us to move her arm and leg into the "RIGHT" position so that her brain would start to get used to sending the signals correctly and she wouldn't have to suffer the shame and low intellect of left handedness. The absurdity of this is even more ironic since their son, the father of my daughter and husband at the time was left handed. They actually used that to prove their point since he seemed to have lower intelligence and did poorly in school. Ergo, it was because he was left handed.

 

When she started kindegarten they were concerned because she continued to use her left hand to color and eat with. They had a private school and proceeded to do these freakish intelligence tests on our children to see what their potential intellectual promise held. They gave us a dismal assessment for our daughter, mostly based on her left handedness and aversion to using public toilets.

 

She graduated from HS with a 3.8 GPA and was a Sterling Scholar. So much for statistics.

 

But what was so weird was the belief that you can cure left handedness. It's equally bizarre to think that not identifying someone as gay or lesbian will cure them of the gay. You may as well try to tell me that if I stop calling myself short I will somehow grow taller.

 

I am so tired of the ignorance of so many LDS and political leaders. It's like they haven't picked up a book or read a magazine article printed after 1954 and are hoping by remaining in the backward sexist, racist, bigoted, ignorant dark ages that they can maintain their high ground with like minded sexist racist bigoted ignorant followers.  Even more outrageous, they do.

 

The fact that such a moron could rise up the ranks of the church is a reflection of the body of the church and the typical mindset of the members. These men reflect all the ignorance and promote it like it's some sort of benevolent loving message inspired by an equally backward sexist racist bigoted ignorant God.

 

I tried and tried, but I'm still short. I must not love Jesus.   

 

 
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LDS Missionary:

 

While I have a brief retort, with a little something McMullin can mull about in his mouth, I've chosen a creative format to preface my remarks. Limericks, I find, can be much more entertaining and useful than parables.

McMullin says there are girls and there are boys,
And sexuality has no room for a choice. -
You're a Mars or a Venus,
With a vagina or a penis ,
But there's an appropriate place for your toys.

You're not lesbian or gay, you're just you;
And to say otherwise, says McMullin, is untrue. -
For god wouldn't play tricks,
With our pussies and dicks,
If not so, who would a queer Jesus screw?

O, silly god, you've played a hoax;
And McMullin is an ignorant oaf! -
You've created children with hearts,
And supposedly two different 'parts',
But intersexuals, you seem to have blessed with 'both'.

And so it is, Mormons, you've no plan,
For any person who's not exclusively woman or man.
Whether within or without,
There can no longer be doubt,
They can call themselves LGBT, yes they can!

The dick for McMullin to proverbially choke on, comes in the form of a question: How many more millions of variations are we unable to detect based on our limited technologies and our ability to 'observe' what the labels 'boy and girl' supposedly mean?

 

 

MOST EXCELLENT POEM LDS Missionary. I read it aloud to my husband and we both laughed, sort of through the tears of realizing that this is a common and growing problem among the more ignorant and illiterate in our nation. I'm so tired of having to explain things to them. The information about gays has been around for decades and it's so obvious to most of us that it's just something that some people are and some are not, and to stop obsessing about or trying to "Cure" or impose shame.

 
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Good old Mormon church, with it's backward ways and it's belief that if you don't "name it" it goes away. Can we laugh now? It would be funny if it didn't affect so many people who were raised Mormon. It's like Evergreen using electrical stimulus to "cure" homosexuality. Torture and water-boarding by any other name.
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I've also heard that if you don't teach your kids about STD's, birth control, or even their own bodies that they won't have sex. Yep, keep em in the dark and they won't stray...How's that working out for you Utah?

 

 

 http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/05/13/utah-pushes-abstinence/

Utah Still Pushing Abstinence Education Despite a Rise in Teen Pregnancy & STDs

Posted by Ellen Friedrichs on @ 8:20 pm
Article printed from speakeasy: http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy
URL to article: http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/05/13/utah-pushes-abstinence/

How many times do states need to push abstinence-only education before deciding that telling kids to just say no, just isn’t working? In Utah’s case, it seems like an awful lot. Thanks to Utah Senator, Orrin G. Hatch, the health bill, (which, thankfully, includes $375 million for comprehensive sex education), has set aside $250 million for abstinence funding.

Utah’s teens have long had this brand of education. In fact, state law not only requires “emphasizing abstinence before marriage and fidelity after marriage,” but it also prohibits teaching, “the intricacies of intercourse, sexual stimulation, or erotic behavior; the advocacy of homosexuality; the advocacy or encouragement of the use of contraceptive methods or devices; or the advocacy of sexual activity outside of marriage.”

So how’s that working out for Utah? Apparently, not so well. A recent report found that between 2004 and 2008, Utah’s teen birthrate grew by over 30%. During that time, chlamydia rates increased 70% among teen girls, while the rates of gonorrhea also rose at nearly that level.

 
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No, we wouldn't want gay or lesbian Mormons identifying with the gay and lesbian population outside the church.  Because outside the church it's becoming more and more okay to be gay.  I hold the belief that my generation (I'm 40) is the last generation to hold this prejudice against gay citizens.  My childrens generation seems to not care in the least.  Some people are straight, some are gay. 

 

All gay people should leave the church.  The church comprises .02% of the US Population.  Please get yourselves out of the church where you can live a  normal, happy eixistance as a GAY PERSON.  Yes, you are gay and what made you gay is probably no more complicated than what made me brunette or 5'4".  Get out of the church, please. 

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 So the church still teaches that gays don't exist? One of the gay Mormon suicides was the first thing that shook me up years ago, and arguably paved the way for me to do the BoM read-through that ultimately led to my discovery of the truth.

 

 Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to share with you exhibit A on why the church is harmful: illigitimizing people in the glbt community. 

 

 This was one of those things that I had a really hard time with. Because I was Mormon I didn't dare stand up for gays. But I've come to understand that the true mark of a good person is someone who will stand up for something that's right even when they are not affected by it in anyway. The willingness to stick your neck out and stand up for someone else.  

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MishMagnet:

No, we wouldn't want gay or lesbian Mormons identifying with the gay and lesbian population outside the church.  Because outside the church it's becoming more and more okay to be gay.  I hold the belief that my generation (I'm 40) is the last generation to hold this prejudice against gay citizens.  My childrens generation seems to not care in the least.  Some people are straight, some are gay. 

 

All gay people should leave the church.  The church comprises .02% of the US Population.  Please get yourselves out of the church where you can live a  normal, happy eixistance as a GAY PERSON.  Yes, you are gay and what made you gay is probably no more complicated than what made me brunette or 5'4".  Get out of the church, please. 

 

fantastic post.  not only is it more and more okay to be gay but it is becoming more and more ok to be okay with gay people.  they can't afford to have their 20something and younger members being totally tolerant of gays.  it screws with their power.  I am 39 and agree with you on the age thing.  My kids are growing up in a totally different world regarding gay tolerance.  they just are not going to have the kind of ignorance, hate, prejudice hard wired into them.

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First of all, i had to check the calendar to make sure i was still in the year 2010. Then, for real i actually checked the date on the article because I thought for sure it must be an article from years ago. It's from yesterday!!!!

 

I just sent the following message to Rosemary Winters  -the author of the Trib article:

 

Dear Ms. Winters,
 
I just read your article "God can lift your ‘burden,’ LDS leader tells gay Mormons". I noticed the following message at the end:
 
The Salt Lake Tribune
Copyright 2010 The Salt Lake Tribune. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
 
All I can say, is thank god!! I would hate to think that such antiquated and inaccurate views such as those spewed by the mormon bigots would in any way be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
 
Thank you for writing the article that clearly lets the world see how yet again, in 2010 the mormon bigots are still holding strong to their rediculous farytales and mythology about gays and lesbians. It is my hope that articles such as yours keep reminding the world how out of step the mormon faith continues to be. I appreciate you using the term "gay" in the title of the article in spite of the outrageous statement by McMullin that use of the term should be discouraged.
 
Thank you
 
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LDS Missionary:

On another board, this little gem of a topic was brought up for thought.

 

From the SLTribune article:

 

On Saturday, McMullin [second counselor in the Presiding Bishopric, and part of the 'Big 18'] said people with same-sex attraction should not call themselves “gay” or “lesbian.” He offered advice to LDS ecclesiastical leaders in the audience of about 200 people.

 

“If someone seeking your help says to you, ‘I am a homosexual,’ or, ‘I am lesbian,’ or, ‘I am gay,’ correct this miscasting,” McMullin said. “Heavenly Father does not speak of his children this way and neither should we. It is simply not true. To speak this way seeds a doubt and deceit about who we really are.”

 

"Correct this miscasting," McMullin said.  "Rather, call them what a loving Heavenly Father would call them....abomonations!  If we are to help these poor, misguided children of our loving Father, we should follow the example of the scriptures and refer to them as, 'sinners', 'wicked and adulterous generation', and my personal favorite, 'generation of vipers.'  There are many more things that the scriptures call them, you will just have to study diligently to familiarize youselves with all the names we should use when refering to....those people.  And while you are at it you might also want to gather stones.  President Monson is going to receive a revelation next month that stoning is going to be restored.  Another sign of the divinity of our Father's loving plan.  And, as a special honor, Glenn Beck is privileged to cast the first stone."

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jidduman:
LDS Missionary:

On another board, this little gem of a topic was brought up for thought.

 

From the SLTribune article:

 

On Saturday, McMullin [second counselor in the Presiding Bishopric, and part of the 'Big 18'] said people with same-sex attraction should not call themselves “gay” or “lesbian.” He offered advice to LDS ecclesiastical leaders in the audience of about 200 people.

 

“If someone seeking your help says to you, ‘I am a homosexual,’ or, ‘I am lesbian,’ or, ‘I am gay,’ correct this miscasting,” McMullin said. “Heavenly Father does not speak of his children this way and neither should we. It is simply not true. To speak this way seeds a doubt and deceit about who we really are.”

 

"Correct this miscasting," McMullin said.  "Rather, call them what a loving Heavenly Father would call them....abomonations!  If we are to help these poor, misguided children of our loving Father, we should follow the example of the scriptures and refer to them as, 'sinners', 'wicked and adulterous generation', and my personal favorite, 'generation of vipers.'  There are many more things that the scriptures call them, you will just have to study diligently to familiarize youselves with all the names we should use when refering to....those people.  And while you are at it you might also want to gather stones.  President Monson is going to receive a revelation next month that stoning is going to be restored.  Another sign of the divinity of our Father's loving plan.  And, as a special honor, Glenn Beck is privileged to cast the first stone."

 

that actually is pretty funny. this whole thing is the perfect script for a non-stamp collector video on you tube.

 

 

 
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They are in a tight little box here. Because of the doctrine of a gender specific pre-existence they cannot accept this reality of being born gay.

 

 

My hope is that young mormons will be able to get enough information so as not to kill themselves. I so hope they can get to sites like this and know that they are loved.

 

 

ft

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For some reason this post is really starting to get my blood boiling.  In my previous post above, I was trying to make the church sound stupid (like they need my help with that!) but just what is the church driving at?

 

While I was an employee at a massage school here in Utah, I knew a few gay men and many lesbian women.  I did not have one single 'bad' encounter with any of them.  I would have gladly let any of the gay men work on me and give me a massage.  They were professional, not perverts.  I even made it a point during my introductory class to tell that very thing to my students.  When I remember my time there and the gays and lesbians I knew it is with a great fondness for our relationships.  When I occasionally run into one of them I get a big smile and hug and a few minutes of genuine conversation.  Not the 'turn my head and pretend I don't see you' thing that so many TBM's give me.

 

I guess if the church is to be consistent then we should refuse to call American Indians lamanites.  Lamanite is a term for a sinful condition.  If a member says they are indian or lamanite we should correct them and call them 'unrepentant white and delightsome nephites'?  Or black members.  If a member says that they are black or African American we should correct them and tell them that they are really 'mark-of-cain white people'?

 

Gay people call themselves gay.  They are OK with that.  At least the church could give them the dignity to follow suit.  Prisoners have rioted to be called by their own name rather than be called by their prison number, which they found to too belittling.  It wouldn't surprise me if this is what is behind it all.  Teach the members that they should not really show respect or to give them any sign of being treated with dignity.

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wesmanlv:

First of all, i had to check the calendar to make sure i was still in the year 2010. Then, for real i actually checked the date on the article because I thought for sure it must be an article from years ago. It's from yesterday!!!!

 

I just sent the following message to Rosemary Winters  -the author of the Trib article:

 

Dear Ms. Winters,
 
I just read your article "God can lift your ‘burden,’ LDS leader tells gay Mormons". I noticed the following message at the end:
 
The Salt Lake Tribune
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All I can say, is thank god!! I would hate to think that such antiquated and inaccurate views such as those spewed by the mormon bigots would in any way be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
 
Thank you for writing the article that clearly lets the world see how yet again, in 2010 the mormon bigots are still holding strong to their rediculous farytales and mythology about gays and lesbians. It is my hope that articles such as yours keep reminding the world how out of step the mormon faith continues to be. I appreciate you using the term "gay" in the title of the article in spite of the outrageous statement by McMullin that use of the term should be discouraged.
 
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Great letter.  Yes, what the Mormon Church states in articles like this is announcing to the world what bigots and homophobes they truly are.

 

Mormons constantly have to point out that they are "Christian" -- it says so in the name of the church.  But these are not Christian attitudes when they contradict what Christianity actually teaches like "Love one another as I have loved you" and "Judge not lest ye be judged."  Hypocrites to the nth degree.

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When we were tbm our teenage child informed us that love would only be possible with the same-sex.  We were heart broken and thought we had lost a beautiful child to some hellish situation..... that we didn't understand.

 

Through a fast and furious study of all the information we could find and studying what our church leaders had taught, we came to the conclusion that they did not know a damn thing about the subject. 

 

We did not share with our teenage child the cruel teachings of our adored apostles and prophets.  The damage they do is horrendous.  The people that helped us through were nonmembers and a few members that had gay children.

 

God never lifted our burden.  Good people, accurate information, and an intuitive understanding of the goodness of our child or I guess just love and acceptance. 

 
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God could have saved himself such a hassle if he had created everyone identically the same sexual orientation....hermaphrodites which can impregnate themselves or asexual subdivision of a single cell person. Instead, he chose to make all the variations....then call a few of them abominations? This doesn't make any sense.
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I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin

 
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Somewhere a TBM parent with gay child is reading the article (see the lips moving?). Tonight or tomorrow, or sometime this week that parent is going to confront the child with the obvious consequences of the seeds McMullin has sown. Many outcomes of those conversations won't be pretty.

It seems to be a natural conclusion of McMullin's POV that any person who says he or she is homosexual is lying.  Right now you can admit same-sex attraction and be in good standing in TSCC if you're not acting on that SSA.  But this has to change, if SSA is not really part of the human genome.  Apparently TSCC accepts that left-handedness is 'natural' so that's okay, along with red hair...   But if SSA is NOT built in from conception, then merely admitting it is a sin, whether you act on it or not.  

If I tell McMullin that I lust after his wife, that I constantly think about her and about taking her clothes off and touching her and rubbing her and putting her nipples in my mouth and feeling her sweet hot wetness and imagining how it feels when she arches her back in orgasm, but hey, Bro. McMullin, I'm not going to act on it, what are my chances of getting my TR renewed? 

I've never heard of a church leader actually saying that ghawd had revealed that the human genome was 'without sin' but TSCC is not the only religious group to believe this.  In the comments section to this Tribune story I found this gem:

"I really enjoy reading, though, the posts from female members stating how they disagree with our leadership. And they wonder why they are barely trusted with relief society! Go back to your baskets and we'll let you know about the next earthquake. (I threw this part in because it really tickled me!!)

And so many people on here talk science this and science that--fine...tell me the gay gene. Describe to me one difference between gays and straights. You can't, because there are no differences. And this is, actually, mroe shocking then anything else. We know we have genes that influence this or influence that, but what about gayness? You want to prove me wrong. Find the gene, and tell me where it is. If you can find it, I will for once and for all accept two things: a. homosexuality is natural and occurs at birth. b. there is no god, as he has decreed gayness a sin, and since gays are born there can be no god."

Of course when science does finally point the finger at the genetic component to homosexuality, people like this will find the twisting set of words that allow them to avoid following through on the a. & b. noted in the comment.

And yes, I've very hopeful that those functioning human beings not fully committed to yielding their free agency to TSCC will soon find themselves heading for the exits.  Because with the kind of thinking going on in TSCC, E-meters can't be all that far away.
 
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Elder OldDog:

I've never heard of a church leader actually saying that ghawd had revealed that the human genome was 'without sin' but TSCC is not the only religious group to believe this.  In the comments section to this Tribune story I found this gem:

"I really enjoy reading, though, the posts from female members stating how they disagree with our leadership. And they wonder why they are barely trusted with relief society! Go back to your baskets and we'll let you know about the next earthquake. (I threw this part in because it really tickled me!!)

And so many people on here talk science this and science that--fine...tell me the gay gene. Describe to me one difference between gays and straights. You can't, because there are no differences. And this is, actually, mroe shocking then anything else. We know we have genes that influence this or influence that, but what about gayness? You want to prove me wrong. Find the gene, and tell me where it is. If you can find it, I will for once and for all accept two things: a. homosexuality is natural and occurs at birth. b. there is no god, as he has decreed gayness a sin, and since gays are born there can be no god."

Of course when science does finally point the finger at the genetic component to homosexuality, people like this will find the twisting set of words that allow them to avoid following through on the a. & b. noted in the comment.

And yes, I've very hopeful that those functioning human beings not fully committed to yielding their free agency to TSCC will soon find themselves heading for the exits.  Because with the kind of thinking going on in TSCC, E-meters can't be all that far away.

 

 Somewhere in Utah a 15yo gay Mormon kid is reading the SL Trib and hearing that he is responsible for non-existence of God.

 

In fact the scientific evidence of natural determinants of homosexuality is extensive and growing. Evidence from endocrinology suggests that hormonal difference in utero determine sexuality in the fetus and baby.  Evidence from neuroscience shows that brain arousal and function can be divided into two broad sets: (straight men/lesbians) and (straight women/gay men).  Evidence from comparative zoology shows that homosexuality is extant in almost every species. Evidence from anthropology shows that homosexuality has existed for all of human history, in every race, nationality, religion and culture.

 

But science and reason are irrelevant in the face of Mormon hatefulness.   LDS members, yes all members, are vicious hateful scum who sacrifice their own children to follow the Prophet.

 
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Elder Old Dog, if you would stop calling yourself Old and Dog you would cease to be either. Remember, it's all in your head (the big one up top). You are not old. You are not a dog. You are a young verile spry man in his prime. Repeat that ten times and if that doesn't work, attach some electrodes to your gnads and then shock yourself till you feel invigorated again, then pray and you should be cured of Old and doggedness. Don't make me get out the 12 step program.
 
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LDS Missionary:

 

On Saturday, McMullin [second counselor in the Presiding Bishopric, and part of the 'Big 18'] said people with same-sex attraction should not call themselves “gay” or “lesbian.” He offered advice to LDS ecclesiastical leaders in the audience of about 200 people.

 

“If someone seeking your help says to you, ‘I am a homosexual,’ or, ‘I am lesbian,’ or, ‘I am gay,’ correct this miscasting,” McMullin said. “Heavenly Father does not speak of his children this way and neither should we. It is simply not true. To speak this way seeds a doubt and deceit about who we really are.”

 

  

 

 This is true.  It should be noted that Heavenly Father doesn't speak of his children at all.  Ever.  Or to them.  In fact, he's sufficiently neglectful of his offspring, that I'd argue He's not the best role-model for "ways to treat human beings."

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Cloudbusting:
LDS Missionary:

 

On Saturday, McMullin [second counselor in the Presiding Bishopric, and part of the 'Big 18'] said people with same-sex attraction should not call themselves “gay” or “lesbian.” He offered advice to LDS ecclesiastical leaders in the audience of about 200 people.

 

“If someone seeking your help says to you, ‘I am a homosexual,’ or, ‘I am lesbian,’ or, ‘I am gay,’ correct this miscasting,” McMullin said. “Heavenly Father does not speak of his children this way and neither should we. It is simply not true. To speak this way seeds a doubt and deceit about who we really are.”

 

  

 

 This is true.  It should be noted that Heavenly Father doesn't speak of his children at all.  Ever.  Or to them.  In fact, he's sufficiently neglectful of his offspring, that I'd argue He's not the best role-model for "ways to treat human beings."

 

 Yeah, it's almost as though he isn't there at all. 

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Ferret out the truth

 
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From the article:

 

McMullin also spoke at the conference 17 years ago, when it was held at a hotel. He said it was “appropriate” that the group now meets in the LDS chapel inside the Joseph Smith Memorial Building in downtown Salt Lake City.

 

“We’ve improved. We’ve come from the hotel to the meetinghouse,” McMullin said. “This has to be an inspiration to us all in whatever circumstance we may find ourselves.”

 

 

i'm just speechless....really, i just can't think of what to say!!!

 
       
 


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