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Mormons and pyramid schemes
 
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I heard someone make a comment that mormons tend to fall for pyramid schemes.  Has anyone noticed this?

 

I literally laughed to myself because before I was baptized by a family, the introduced me to Quixstar, which I shelled out like $500 for.  It was an epidemic in our local stake.  At the time I was 18 so it seemed legit, but now that I look back they were the weirdos that got deep into it.  They literally brainwashed everyone and taught how their products were so superior.  Like Quixstar's RND departments had billions invested collectively over all their products that outtrumped everyone they stole formulas from.

 

Same with Deseret brand welfare $hit.  Just because the Church made it and it had the Church logo on it.  They thought it was the best quality products in the world.   

 

Now I kind of lol when I think of the church members here in Texas that got sucked into the pyramid scheme.  I even questioned him about if he did it at church (I was agnostic at the time) and he said why would that be a problem?  

 

A couple years ago I brought it up in a friendly reminiscent way joking about how stupid that was since none of us had even brought it up for years.  And he defended himself and still tried to assert it was a wonderful business pursuit.  

 

Was this a local phenomenon or are TBM's really susceptible to falling for these things? 

 
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I think the problem is Mormons are brainwashed to totally obey and believe whatever the leaders tell you is the truth.  It is hard to keep your radar up, if you are trained to suck up lies as truth. 

 

If it looks like a sheep, sounds like a sheep, walks like a sheep, it probably thinks like a sheep. 

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Now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find
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TBM's have been brained washed by MLM's (multi-level marketing) companies for years.  My friends and I have been hit up for years by those in Amway.  A majority of MLM's start and operate in Utah.

 

Back in the 90's, my TBM brother was the number two person in a financial MLM in SLC Utah that was shut down by the SEC after it started to take off and there was a hugh lineup of suckers from Provo signing up.

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/480346/INVESTORS-DYNAMICS-TOLD-IT-MUST-CEASE-OPERATIONS.htmlhttp://www.deseretnews.com/article/480346/INVESTORS-DYNAMICS-TOLD-IT-MUST-CEASE-OPERATIONS.html

 

My brother and sister-in-law are now involved in a health related MLM called Isagenix.  It's such a joke.  The products are way overpriced.

 

All MLM's do is promise their members financial independance and focus very little on the products.  Always about the money.  Such bull$hit!

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“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
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Mr. Bubbles:

TBM's have been brained washed by MLM's (multi-level marketing) companies for years.  My friends and I have been hit up for years by those in Amway.  A majority of MLM's start and operate in Utah.

 

Back in the 90's, my TBM brother was the number two person in a financial MLM in SLC Utah that was shut down by the SEC after it started to take off and there was a hugh lineup of suckers from Provo signing up.

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/480346/INVESTORS-DYNAMICS-TOLD-IT-MUST-CEASE-OPERATIONS.htmlhttp://www.deseretnews.com/article/480346/INVESTORS-DYNAMICS-TOLD-IT-MUST-CEASE-OPERATIONS.html

 

My brother and sister-in-law are now involved in a health related MLM called Isagenix.  It's such a joke.  The products are way overpriced.

 

All MLM's do is promise their members financial independance and focus very little on the products.  Always about the money.  Such bull$hit!

 

 But look at all the pictures of happy smiling white people in light clothing relaxing in the backyard/ old black couple walking on the beach together!  I've never seen that before, where do I sign?

 
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My parents got involved with multi-level-marketing several times. They were always sure the "opportunity" would be profitable. They would spend a lot of money to start-up the business, initially work hard to make sales and sign-up new "distributors", and then gradually give-up when the anticipated profits didn't materialize. I don't think my parents ever made money with the MLM companies.
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“I’m having the best day of my life, and I owe it all to not going to Church!”—Homer Simpson, The Simpsons

“I don’t object to the concept of a deity, but I’m baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.”—Amy Farrah Fowler, The Big Bang Theory

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All comments, statements, opinions, suggestions, and information expressed, or quotes cited, represent the exclusive viewpoint of Aleut at that point in time and are NOT meant to compel or represent agreement by the reader. Aleut will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use.

 
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Once again Morg PR doesn't reflect Morg reality.  

 

TBMs are supposed to believe in thrift and honest labor, but the whole religion was founded by a guy who got his start in life claiming he could find buried treasure in people's fields using peep-stones.  

 

This was the classic get-rich-quick con game, and Joseph Smith's story appealed to dirt-poor farmers who were struggling just to feed their families.

 

Look no further than the "Kirtland Safety Society Anti-Banking Company" for evidence of a religion founded and run by con men. 

 

Once you buy in to the "God loves me more than other people" mentality then it's easy to believe that wealth would be a sign of God's love and evidence that you've been living a pious and worthy life.

 

It's not just Mormons. 

 

Jim and Tammy Fay Bakker,  Joel Osteen and the whole "prosperity theology" schtick thrives on convincing ignorant and gullible people that the solution to their financial misery is to send money to the wealthy (and pious!) folks who give every indication that they have God's private cell # on their speed-dial.

 

If a trophy home, an Escalade and a houseboat on Lake Powell are evidence that God is smiling on you, and you've conditioned yourself to put more faith in your "beliefs" than in your reasoning, then falling for a MLM sales pitch is as easy as falling off a log.

 

And when reality intrudes and you find yourself even more broke and with a garage full of worthless crap that not even your relatives will buy from you, you'll blame yourself for not being a good enough sales person, not sufficiently motivated, not sufficiently inspired, not sufficiently resourceful, not sufficiently dedicated, and ultimately, not sufficiently worthy of God's blessings.

 

Deeply religious people make the best marks for con men.  They believe the sales pitch because they're conditioned to trust without questioning, they don't research because they've been taught to avoid materials that are critical of their beliefs, and when they lose, they blame themselves. 

 

And then they don't file charges, because that would not be "nice," and after all, they guy who sold them down the river was such a nice man! 

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“it is always good to keep in mind just because something is printed on paper, appears on the internet, is frequently repeated or has a powerful group of followers doesn’t make it true”.

Dieter F. Uchtdorf At CES

 
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Right on the money NickB!

 

Because this mindset is so prevalent in the LDS church and the fact that my married children are susceptible to MLM schemes I felt I needed to do something to get them to think about this subject before they fall prey.

I posted this awhile back.  What I did is give my two married kids and my YBU attending daughter the Michael Shermer book  “Why people Believe Weird Things”  and inserted a letter from me that included the following response I sent to my TBM brother and his wife who were fired up (yet again) about an MLM.

If I don’t inform them who will?  Assuming they will somehow be informed otherwise is a crap shoot.

TBM’s paying tithe and getting involved in MLM nonsense is a double whammy.

I edited out a few things that I originally sent to my brother so as not to offend my kids mormon sensibilities in hopes they would learn and not turn their brains off. 

Here is the slightly edited version:

 

 

 

From my Bro,

 

www.acninc.com/acn/us 

Call me as soon as you get this!!!”

 

My reply:

 

“I went to the website you provided to check it out.  

 

I am very skeptical right up front as I only hear “cheerleading” and see no cost per services info.  

 

Having Donald Trump as an advocate does nothing for any informed business person because anyone who knows how “real” business works knows that “ethics and “legal” don’t have to go hand in hand.

 

Having Donald as a cheerleader commits the fallacious assertion “appeal to authority fallacy” Donald being the business “authority”.  Just because Donald is involved doesn’t mean the business isn’t a “Pyramid Scheme”, it just means its legal enough for him to attach himself to it for a price.

 

So that is my first red flag.

 

Second red flag is no costs or pricing up front.  You got to become a member of a club to be privy to “special” information.

 

Third red flag is you must pay to join and get others to do the same thing.  The reality is that new recruit “fees” are how the up-line folks are making money and not off the actual residuals from any sales.

 

 
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The second half of my  post:

 

 

As we all know as in baseball after three red flags you’re out.  But just for good measure let’s give-em one more flag before they are really out.

 

So what is ACN selling?  Telecommunications Services.  These services are sold already buy a wagon load of legitimate businesses that already offer them at good rates.  Here is a list.

 

 

 

Verizon Wireless

9

0

 

Cingular Wireless**

9

0

 

Comcast

9

1

 

Verizon

8

0

 

SBC

7

0

 

Sprint*

5

1

 

DirecTV

5

0

 

Time Warner

5

1

 

BellSouth

4

0

 

Dish Network

3

0

 

T-Mobile

3

0

 

Cox

3

0

 

AT&T

2

0

 

Charter

2

0

 

Qwest

2

0

 

ALLTEL Wireless

2

0

 

AOL

1

0

 

MCI

1

0

 

Other

21

-1

 

These companies provide the “actual service” to ACN customers as ACN does not own or operate communications companies themselves.

 

Why would anyone buy services through ACN?  In reality it the real trouble comes down to selling ACN as a third party service to family and friends which in itself is a tough sell due to the number of already available and reputable services that family and friends are already using.

 

You have paid your $499 in Fees to become a member of the club and in order to get your money back you MUST recruit.  You could sell the services of course but the residuals are minimal and would require one heck of a lot of work to get it back.  The up-line (or however you refer to the guys who signed you up) guys who did nothing, get paid from you and your recruits and from a percentage of your residuals.  Just like a percentage of fees and money that I might make would get paid to you who did nothing, but make me a member of the “special information club”.  My money gets sent upstairs and I never see it again.

 

So the reality again is, only the one guy in a thousand makes any money and everyone else gives up after a very short while and up the up-line guys keep your club fees money and says thanks!   What a great flipping business this is!

 

That’s four red flags!  That means you’re “OUT!” ACN!

 

Because I have gotten to a point in my life where I am tired of anyone who tries to BS me, (ACN) I now do my own research.  I no longer believe anything that anyone is selling regardless of the product until I check it out myself.  Until I check it (ON MY TIME) out, I don’t need what is being sold.  This includes anything over the pulpit, on FOX news, in glossy sales flyers, or from used car salesman.  I use facts, logic and reason backed up with research and common sense. 

 

I have learned that “warm and fuzzies” can be the biggest liars on the planet.   You may “feel” good about ACN but after a little checking into it I must say no thanks.

 

Go to GOOGLE and enter “ACN MLM + fraud”   and get info from multiple sources.  Read the numbers.  Yes it is legal.  But that doesn’t make it ethical, right or a life changing money maker for folks at your level.  It just makes the upper 100 or so rich, mostly from your recruits and not from any sales you or your down-line may make.   Sorry.”

 

 
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My simplistic thinking never could wrap my brain around MLM's.

.

The whole point was to get other people to sell the product for you so you could sit back and relax while they did the "selling", but you have to sell THAT same idea to other people, to get other people to "sell" so they wouldn't have so.

.

It never sounded like ANYONE was selling anything other than laziness and an idea.

.

BTW - MLM's are being focused on in 'Big Love' this season, because it's just another thing to make fun of Morons on. Oops I mean Mormons. Ok I really mean Morons. raspberry

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“You might want to tell the truth. It’s easier to remember.” - Cho ~ The Mentalist..
A Mormon?! But I’m from Earth! - Homer Simpson..
I’m sorry, but if I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong! As it is I refuse to have a ‘Battle Of Wits’ with an unarmed person!

 
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I was involved with an MLM company, I have dealt with the SEC, I have spoken at the United Nations with a group with an anti-gay agenda, I have been the escort for my two daughters in taking them through the temple and away from our family, I arrogantly walked into the temple on my own wedding day leaving both sets of parents in the waiting room, I have made more mistakes as a parent than I can even admit to myself. Ten years from now, I will probably cringe at mistakes I am making right now.  It is life! We are all doing the best we can with the knowledge we have. Time and events make us wiser--sometimes we don't know the backstory on a lot of events in people's lives (even people walking hand in hand on the beach) and how they finally arrived at Post-Mo.

 

Wisdom comes from experience and often that experience comes with a very high price tag of bad judgement. 

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I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man—Thomas Jefferson

It takes courage to grow up and turn out to be who you really are.—e.e.cummings

 
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I remember getting caught up in a thing called Neways.  What a lot of shit that was.  It was just a way to use people beneath you to earn the money and then sitting back reaping other people's hard work.  I soon left it, as I saw what a load of shit it was.  Unfortunately, so many TBMs do get caught up in these so called make-money-fast schemes.
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- Peter Lindberg Jensen.

 

The most rewarding thing in life is to live authentically.
- Peter Lindberg Jensen.


There’s nothing like looking through the door of reality and seeing what’s there. How can this not be more interesting than looking through the door of ignorance and seeing nothing?
- Peter Lindberg Jensen.

 
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If anyone even breaks even- A it's a miracle, and B you've just set up and screwed over tons of people, probably your friends.  
 
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Luckily even as a TBM I had a good BS detector for everything else.  I've always had a problem with Mormons and the MLM scams they fall for.  I recommend sending them to MLM-Thetruth.com as it gives theological reasons to not do it.  If there was a Mormon God, they are still all going to outer darkness. At BYUI I remember being forced by some FHE girls a video for pre-paid legal services.  Hilarious stuff.  Luckily I was able to convince them to get out as they had just heard the sales pitch by the good LDS guy that day.  I also had some roommates who were into ACN, but I held no sway compared to Donald Trump.  My parents are very TBM but they have always fended off these leeches for what they are.  Unfortunately my extended family wasn't so lucky, and any inheritance I could have hoped for from my once well off grandfather has been flushed down the drain of a ponzi scheme that recently made Get Gephart.  Glad to see somebody is benefiting from their daddy's work. 
 
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My tbm niece and sister in law are involved with eXfuse, the power of seven ingredients fused together ," the world's truly first "multi-botanical" dietary supplement".  They have told me in can cure diabetes, depression, and many other ailments.

 Just another name for snake oil.

 
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A very good friend of mine was neighbors and friends (and still is) with a woman who is renowned for training others to recruit for MLMs.  She asked me to go listen to her one time as she was "so impressed" with her.

 

She wasn't pushing a product...yet she got 100 people to pay $1000 to listen to her for 2 days (I did not pay...we got to sit in the back and listen).

 

Yes, she was amazing.  She was captivating...and I can see why everyone flocks to her.  But here was her message.  Have a story....tell the story over and over again and people will want what you have.  She was right.  She had made millions with Herbalife and her story was amazing.  She told it over and over again.  People wanted to be with her, talk to her, have what she had.

 

Sounds familiar?  Lots of return missionaries do really well in MLM's...I wonder why?

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Mrs. Jello Salad:

 

Sounds familiar?  Lots of return missionaries do really well in MLM's...I wonder why?

 

 Because they have proven to be highly capable of both buying into bullshit, and also peddling bullshit.

 

 

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deanh:

 

My tbm niece and sister in law are involved with eXfuse, the power of seven ingredients fused together ," the world's truly first "multi-botanical" dietary supplement".  They have told me in can cure diabetes, depression, and many other ailments.

 Just another name for snake oil.

 

I thought a Priesthood Blessing with enough faith could cure diabetes, depression, and other ailments. 

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Morality is doing what’s right regardless of what you are told. Obedience is doing what is told regardless of what is right!

 
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The entire American economy is one big pyramid scheme.
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Think for yoursef; question authority.

 
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In their rush to make Utah business friendly, Utah has liberalized its laws on MLMs and made Utah the state with the most MLMs registered.

 

http://www.mlmwatch.org/11Legal/utahbill.html

 

They threw families to the dogs by opening this up.  Anything for a buck.

 

It's just another form of affinity fraud, like Madoff taking money from fellow Jews, and it isn't your imagination the Utah is overrun with them.

 
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Let's see, just within a few miles from where I live in Salt Lake County, we have XanGo (really expensive juice with the "miracle fruit" mangosteen, and other really expensive personal care products), Tahitian Noni juice, Zrii juice (the Deepak Chopra endorsed amalaki juice), Young Living with its line up of essential oils popular with the new age and reiki crowds (their Thieves oil is supposedly made up of the same ingredients used by thieves in biblical times who stole valuables off of dead bodies -- the oils kept them safe from the diseased, decaying corpses).   Neways, Nuskin, Nature's Sunshine, among others.

 

All these health products for a state that already has the word of wisdom. 

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“Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is right and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been the work of men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have whooped them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant, in this field as in all others. His culture is based on “I am not too sure.”” H.L. Mencken

 
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My TBM ex-husband fell for just about every MLM scheme out there, you name it, he's probably been a part of it. He even came close to fallng for that Nigerian scam, but he showed me the e-mail and I somehow was able to talk him out of sending his bank account information to them.

 

He didn't really want to get a real job, as he wanted a quick way to get rich, or if that wasn't possible, to live off of his mom or others. He's been kicked out of several community colleges for financial aid abuse, as he would sign up for the unit minimum required, then the moment his check arrived, he dropped some of those classes until he was well below the required number of units.

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I’m proud to be a B.I.T.C.H (Being In Total Control of Herself)

 
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Of The World:

Let's see, just within a few miles from where I live in Salt Lake County, we have XanGo (really expensive juice with the "miracle fruit" mangosteen, and other really expensive personal care products), Tahitian Noni juice, Zrii juice (the Deepak Chopra endorsed amalaki juice), Young Living with its line up of essential oils popular with the new age and reiki crowds (their Thieves oil is supposedly made up of the same ingredients used by thieves in biblical times who stole valuables off of dead bodies -- the oils kept them safe from the diseased, decaying corpses).   Neways, Nuskin, Nature's Sunshine, among others.

 

All these health products for a state that already has the word of wisdom. 

 

 Lol, no kidding.  We've actually lost friends due to Amway, and some really expensive knife selling scheme (it was weird).  

 
       
 


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