A few minutes ago I got back from attending a presentation where TKStrong defended her master's thesis in Sociology. Her subject was the social implications of leaving the LDS Church in Utah. I like her title: "This Was the Place." I liked her presentation. Well done! In a room of about 12 people attending I sat next to John Dehlin.
My point in writing is that afterward John volunteered to me that he has left the church -- hasn't resigned yet, but has left. He told me that this is public information and I was free to mention it on PostMo. He said it was the integrity problem that finally took him out. He couldn't remain a member and avoid the problems with the church any longer. His personal integrity would no longer allow him to look the other way. He and his wife have both left. He's meeting with the Stake President in a few days, I assume regarding his disaffection, but I could be wrong. Congratulations to you and your wife on your 'graduation' from Mormonism John!!!!
John was a main player in the difficult role of remaining active. His departure should be a terrible loss to the TBMs of the world. The sad thing is they didn't really acknowledge his efforts, and always seemed a bit perplexed by his middle road approach to Latter-day Saintism. Mostly they didn't want to talk about problems in Mormonism. John helped hundreds, if not thousands of LDS members. The church should listen to its young warriors as opposed to its ancient old chiefs!
That is exactly why men with the integrity of John Dehlin head for the exits...
John was a main player in the difficult role of remaining active. His departure should be a terrible loss to the TBMs of the world. The sad thing is they didn't really acknowledge his efforts, and always seemed a bit perplexed by his middle road approach to Latter-day Saintism. Mostly they didn't want to talk about problems in Mormonism. John helped hundreds, if not thousands of LDS members. The church should listen to its young warriors as opposed to its ancient old men!
That is exactly why men with the integrity of John Dehlin head for the exits...
I was thinking the same thing. My first thought was that the church may soon be facing some serious problems, as respected advocates of Mormonism drift away and potentially draw quite a crowd with them. The LDS Church is turning a very bad place for intellectuals, and sooner or later they will have to pay for it.
As a fellow USU dept. Of Psych. Alum... I must say, "Wow! John you really held on there.". The belief was really entrenched. Good that you had the courage to anayze the data and come to your own conclusion, in the end.
HH =)
A few minutes ago I got back from attending a presentation where TKStrong defended her master's thesis in Sociology. Her subject was the social implications of leaving the LDS Church in Utah. I like her title: "This Was the Place." I liked her presentation. Well done! In a room of about 12 people attending I sat next to John Dehlin.
My point in writing is that afterward John volunteered to me that he had left the church -- hasn't resigned yet, but has left. He told me that this is public information and I was free to mention it on PostMo. He said it was the integrity problem that finally took him out. He couldn't remain a member and avoid the problems with the church any longer. His personal integrity would no longer allow him to look the other way. He and his wife have both left. He's meeting with the Stake President in a few days about his choice to leave and I think he's a little nervous about the meeting. Congratulations to you and your wife on your graduation John!!!!
What?!?!?! I am shocked! John hinted about the meeting with his Stake Pres before the defense, but I didn't know that was his intention!! Wow. Thanks for passing on that information!
Also, thank you for coming, it was really nice to have the two of you there. Just so you know, the committee did pass me. I have some revisions to do, but that is expected. If any one is interested in the final product let me know and I would be happy to forward it on. A special thanks to those of you who contributed to my research!!
A few minutes ago I got back from attending a presentation where TKStrong defended her master's thesis in Sociology. Her subject was the social implications of leaving the LDS Church in Utah. I like her title: "This Was the Place." I liked her presentation. Well done! In a room of about 12 people attending I sat next to John Dehlin.
My point in writing is that afterward John volunteered to me that he had left the church -- hasn't resigned yet, but has left. He told me that this is public information and I was free to mention it on PostMo. He said it was the integrity problem that finally took him out. He couldn't remain a member and avoid the problems with the church any longer. His personal integrity would no longer allow him to look the other way. He and his wife have both left. He's meeting with the Stake President in a few days about his choice to leave and I think he's a little nervous about the meeting. Congratulations to you and your wife on your graduation John!!!!
What?!?!?! I am shocked! John hinted about the meeting with his Stake Pres before the defense, but I didn't know that was his intention!! Wow. Thanks for passing on that information!
Also, thank you for coming, it was really nice to have the two of you there. Just so you know, the committee did pass me. I have some revisions to do, but that is expected. If any one is interested in the final product let me know and I would be happy to forward it on. A special thanks to those of you who contributed to my research!!
In some ways I'm actually kinda sad - because he was my last hope that I could reconcile my existence in the church.
Even then his how to stay in the church presentation at Sunstone (which I listened to) - really boiled down to "you should stay because why the hell not - its a good support organization" - which one could argue for and against until the sun becomes a chunk of coal the size of my fist.
Oh well ;).
One thing I do miss about church is my pseudo friends. Most of my other "friends" are work friends and about as useful sadly. One of the best guys I've ever met in my life I met online while playing World of Warcraft - and happened to work at the same company as I did.
I was intiially very critical of John Dehlin. I blogged about him and posted here about my disdain for his "Stay LDS" website. Several of you here had very nice things to say about him and recommended his pod cast. I have been a subscriber for about a year or so and it has become a a staple in my iPod.
I have really come to enjoy John Dehlin as a person and have empathy for his struggle. I want to say, very publicly, that I had reevaluated my feelings about John a while ago and felt like his contribution to the Mormon community and ours has been extremely positive. I honestly hope John finds peace in this decision and can find the support from us that he has given.
For some reason a lot of things related to the church have been making me feel terribly sad today. This is just adding to the pain.
John has done more than any individual in helping me with my disaffection. His MormonStories podcasts have given me comfort dealing with a rabid TBM DW. Though I haven't been able to convince her to listen to those podcasts, many of them - especially those concerning mixed TBM / Disaffected marrieages - have at least given me hope if only a fool's hope.
The church ought to be on its knees begging him to stay. I am wondering, also, whether this, when word gets out, will encourage others to follow him out. I know I have been seriously considering it, and maybe this will give me the final *push*
Congratulations, TKS. And somewhat more tentative congratulations to John. I imagine this has been, and will continue to be, a difficult transition. I respect what you tried to do and the emotional and psychological space you created for people both inside and on the way out of the Church.
I also listened to his podcasts and experienced several "Hats off to John" moments as his story and scenario rang true to my own on several points. I am kind of "in" (bodily only) the church still... and attend with the "why the hell not" reasoning since my wife and family, extended family are in and not going anywhere else anytime soon. To not attend means my marriage suffers and further more severe ostracising would happen with extended family.
It's complicated, I don't want to rehash it all here as this thread is not about me or whatever I am involved with.
So I think from what I can tell, John's wife's support brought crucial impetus for making this last step.
It's sad really. The church has set itself up for more people like John to choose intellectually to leave.
Count me in the camp who can't begin to quantify how much impact his podcasts had on my transition. I'll be forever grateful for his contribution and I never had any doubt whatever as to his sincerity or his integrity. I admire Mr. Dehlin and wish him the best in his future endeavors.
John, if you haven't read the thread above (from a couple weeks ago) you really should--you have a lot of supporters here.
I think John has done more for the "Postmormon" cause than most ex-mormons. If there is not a place in the church John Dehlin, there is not a place for many, many more of us who are like him. Its incredibly frustrating to go to church but not be able to say what you believe, for fear of being branded an apostate. I always admired John for openly and honestly confronting issues with the church. If the church wants to stem the tide of disaffected members, it really needs to create a safe place for people like us to express our opinions and discuss troubling issues. Otherwise, it will continue to drive us into underground Internet forums--which only hastens our apostasy.
A few minutes ago I got back from attending a presentation where TKStrong defended her master's thesis in Sociology. Her subject was the social implications of leaving the LDS Church in Utah. I like her title: "This Was the Place." I liked her presentation. Well done! In a room of about 12 people attending I sat next to John Dehlin.
My point in writing is that afterward John volunteered to me that he had left the church -- hasn't resigned yet, but has left. He told me that this is public information and I was free to mention it on PostMo. He said it was the integrity problem that finally took him out. He couldn't remain a member and avoid the problems with the church any longer. His personal integrity would no longer allow him to look the other way. He and his wife have both left. He's meeting with the Stake President in a few days about his choice to leave and I think he's a little nervous about the meeting. Congratulations to you and your wife on your graduation John!!!!
What?!?!?! I am shocked! John hinted about the meeting with his Stake Pres before the defense, but I didn't know that was his intention!! Wow. Thanks for passing on that information!
Also, thank you for coming, it was really nice to have the two of you there. Just so you know, the committee did pass me. I have some revisions to do, but that is expected. If any one is interested in the final product let me know and I would be happy to forward it on. A special thanks to those of you who contributed to my research!!
As someone who's been highly critical of John staying in the church knowing what he knows, I'll happily say - glad I turned out to be wrong. Congrats John.
A few minutes ago I got back from attending a presentation where TKStrong defended her master's thesis in Sociology. Her subject was the social implications of leaving the LDS Church in Utah. I like her title: "This Was the Place." I liked her presentation. Well done! In a room of about 12 people attending I sat next to John Dehlin.
My point in writing is that afterward John volunteered to me that he had left the church -- hasn't resigned yet, but has left. He told me that this is public information and I was free to mention it on PostMo. He said it was the integrity problem that finally took him out. He couldn't remain a member and avoid the problems with the church any longer. His personal integrity would no longer allow him to look the other way. He and his wife have both left. He's meeting with the Stake President in a few days about his choice to leave and I think he's a little nervous about the meeting. Congratulations to you and your wife on your graduation John!!!!
What?!?!?! I am shocked! John hinted about the meeting with his Stake Pres before the defense, but I didn't know that was his intention!! Wow. Thanks for passing on that information!
Also, thank you for coming, it was really nice to have the two of you there. Just so you know, the committee did pass me. I have some revisions to do, but that is expected. If any one is interested in the final product let me know and I would be happy to forward it on. A special thanks to those of you who contributed to my research!!
I would love a copy!
me too ! thanks ! I'll PM my email address, thanks again
TheRipper:
wow do i feel like an outcast... who is John Dehlin?
He and I were freshmen together at BYU back in the good old days! Long live Chipman Hall! He is the founder and creator of mormonstories.org. Check it out, full of lots of very interesting interviews and information. He is a very genuine guy.
I think John mentioned somewhere a couple of months ago that he was "out." I have been critical of John's positions in the past, but I have always been worried about John as a person, because I knew he was trying to help, and I knew he was trying to be someone of integrity, and I just couldn't see how it could work for him long term. In another forum where John and I both occasionally hang out, I wrote the following:
Although I admire the tremendous work John Dehlin has done in, for,
and with the Disaffected Mormon Underworld, the PostMormons, the
Ex-Mormons, the Former Mormons, the New Order Mormons, the Liberal
Mormons and also many others, I have often times been critical
of John. My criticisms have been o...n the exact topic he has identified in his in his recent post. I have questioned his integrity.
John has now disclosed to this group that he has made a significant
decision that he felt his integrity compelled him to make. I commend,
applaud, and indeed "tip my hat" to John both for making this move and
for sharing that decision here.
I know that John has been struggling for a long time, precisely
because his heart is pure. John's driving motivation in life is to help
others. In the complex world that he finds himself in, the thoughtful,
critical, loving Mormon who has reached out to so many, no matter what
their internal or external affliction, John was a target for others to
attack. The internal and external forces pulling at John would have
either sent a lesser man retreating into protected, cloistered enclave
of orthodoxy or running into the streets fomenting revolution.
I'm certain John's decision was not an easy one to make, but I am also certain it was the right one for John.
I cannot thank John enough. His thoughtful, thorough, genuine interviews presented a palatable way for me to view my (freightening) questions of the church.
Welcome John, I'm grateful to you though we will probably never meet.
TheRipper: wow do i feel like an outcast... who is John Dehlin?
He and I were freshmen together at BYU back in the good old days! Long live Chipman Hall! He is the founder and creator of mormonstories.org. Check it out, full of lots of very interesting interviews and information. He is a very genuine guy.
I watched one of John's power point presentations on why people leave the Mormon church. It was instrumental in me deciding to leave, and for that I'm grateful to him. I couldn't quite figure out how, knowing all that information about the church, it was possible for him to stay in. I knew it was not possible for me.
Shout out to TKStrong! Congratulations girl! As one of your interviewee's for your paper, I must say that I was extremely impressed with the revision you shared with me before you made your final edits. You did a superb job and I felt like you represented me in your paper with superb accuracy. Way to go! And yes, I definitely want a copy of your final paper.
John Dehlin, I just want to say that I have admired your courage for years and your thoughtful and kind responses when you were attacked for the "middle of the road" approach you took. I was always afraid that you were going to get run over by 15 myopic gerantologists. I am so happy to see you take your power and decision in your own hands instead of risking having those...those...(can't think of an adjective degrading enough to describe them) men railroad you out of the church. I truly believe you are a good and kind man and there really isn't much higher complement that I can give someone.
Congrats to tkstrong! I hate that I couldn't make it to your presentation. Thanks for allowing me to be part of your graduate experience.
John, I've always admired you. One of these days we really DO need to meet in person!
John. How are you feeling about being the subject of so much conversation? anyway, I respect your integrity and I would also like to meet you some time. Due to where I live I don't meet many postmormons. There is good and bad in not living near Utah.
I had already mentally left before John hit the scene, but his early work with the PP presentation helped me in my coming out to my wife. Many thanks John and best wishes for whatever lies ahead for you and your family.
My understanding is that John was the founder of "Stay LDS". I joined the Stay LDS group and stayed for over one year. I struggled terribly with "truths" of the LDS Church and finally came here after suffering severe depression when I realized that much that I had been taught wasn't true.
Thanks to John anyway. He helped me through a difficult process.
P.S. for those of you who want an update, my family became very active in a nondemomintional Christian Church. My daughter met a guy with a Master's Degree in Adolescent Psychology who works at a Christian Counselling Center for youth with substance abuse issues. They are getting married this month. Honestly, I am so excited because this is one of the choicest men I have ever met. I can't boost about him enough. He also works for Valley Mental Health part-time. It was our answer to a prayer. We are all doing fine. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Some Elders make it sound like if you leave the LDS Church, you will be forever single, lonely, alone and abandoned. Nothing can be further from the truth. My friends are making dinner at the Ronald McDonald House on Friday and we just finished that fantastic drive to collect items for the homeless. I'm busy, but I'm so happy because this is the very first time in my life that I have been able to act so directly with my community. Before, we always had to have Priesthood approve activities and direct them.
A few minutes ago I got back from attending a presentation where TKStrong defended her master's thesis in Sociology. Her subject was the social implications of leaving the LDS Church in Utah. I like her title: "This Was the Place." I liked her presentation. Well done! In a room of about 12 people attending I sat next to John Dehlin.
My point in writing is that afterward John volunteered to me that he had left the church -- hasn't resigned yet, but has left. He told me that this is public information and I was free to mention it on PostMo. He said it was the integrity problem that finally took him out. He couldn't remain a member and avoid the problems with the church any longer. His personal integrity would no longer allow him to look the other way. He and his wife have both left. He's meeting with the Stake President in a few days about his choice to leave and I think he's a little nervous about the meeting. Congratulations to you and your wife on your graduation John!!!!
What?!?!?! I am shocked! John hinted about the meeting with his Stake Pres before the defense, but I didn't know that was his intention!! Wow. Thanks for passing on that information!
Also, thank you for coming, it was really nice to have the two of you there. Just so you know, the committee did pass me. I have some revisions to do, but that is expected. If any one is interested in the final product let me know and I would be happy to forward it on. A special thanks to those of you who contributed to my research!!
Yes, TK, I would like to see the final product please. Thank you for the gracious offer! Looking forward to it!
A few minutes ago I got back from attending a presentation where TKStrong defended her master's thesis in Sociology. Her subject was the social implications of leaving the LDS Church in Utah. I like her title: "This Was the Place." I liked her presentation. Well done! In a room of about 12 people attending I sat next to John Dehlin.
My point in writing is that afterward John volunteered to me that he has left the church -- hasn't resigned yet, but has left. He told me that this is public information and I was free to mention it on PostMo. He said it was the integrity problem that finally took him out. He couldn't remain a member and avoid the problems with the church any longer. His personal integrity would no longer allow him to look the other way. He and his wife have both left. He's meeting with the Stake President in a few days about his choice to leave and I think he's a little nervous about the meeting. Congratulations to you and your wife on your graduation John!!!!
John, we are all proud of you and your wife for having the courage to be authenic people. Life on this side of honest is pretty dang awsome!
I liked her presentation. Well done! In a room of about 12 people attending I sat next to John Dehlin. 
I am shocked! John hinted about the meeting with his Stake Pres before the defense, but I didn't know that was his intention!! Wow. Thanks for passing on that information!
