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Latter Day Lies
 
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It's easy to find lies by Joseph Smith and also by Gordon B. Hinckley. I'm wondering if Thomas S. Monson has told verifiable lies on behalf of the church.

 

What about other members of the current Fab Fifteen?

 

Just curious.

 

(I'm familar with Packer and Oaks advocating what might be termed "lies of omission" and Oaks allegedly initially lying to the press about Packer involvement in the Toscano excommunication.)

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Nope, President Monson was really a very young bishop to twelve thousand, four hundred and twenty-eight widows... just kidding, though with a face like that, only widows with serious vision loss would even let him in their front doors (ha). I think he truly believes in the Restoration.

 

By the way, leaving a California market yesterday, I was approached by several ladies asking for funds for the "Santa Ana Restoration Church." I laughed and asked them if they practiced polygamy? (they didn't have a clue about the Mormon connection to the name).

 
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You know as a young man growing up in the 80s and getting off my mission in 92, Monson was always the man.  Funny, great stories.  To me it was always about when he was going to be prophet.  Like Monson was always going to make an amazing prophet in my opinion.  Called to the apostleship so early.  That amazing photographic memory (or so my MP told me).......

 

what a bust he is as prophet.  I  remember his first address as prophet.  He did no look confident.  It was really bad.  If anything, he has made a point to say as little as possible.  I think he is just killing time until he dies, trying to keep comfortable and eat chocolate.

 

worst prophet in i don't know how long.  worse than hunter even.  dude is totally boring as prophet and is a coward. 

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Lloyd Dobler:

You know as a young man growing up in the 80s and getting off my mission in 92, Monson was always the man.  Funny, great stories.  To me it was always about when he was going to be prophet.  Like Monson was always going to make an amazing prophet in my opinion.  Called to the apostleship so early.  That amazing photographic memory (or so my MP told me).......

 

what a bust he is as prophet.  I  remember his first address as prophet.  He did no look confident.  It was really bad.  If anything, he has made a point to say as little as possible.  I think he is just killing time until he dies, trying to keep comfortable and eat chocolate.

 

worst prophet in i don't know how long.  worse than hunter even.  dude is totally boring as prophet and is a coward. 

 

 Oh don't be too hard on him. His milk just wasn't at the right temperature.

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If god has a sense of humor, he'd make Monson Lactose Intolerant.
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I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin

 
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Speaking of Monson and lies...

How about the widow burying her children with only a spoon? (GC a couple of sessions ago... my BS meter went off big time with that story)
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Troubled Wife:
Speaking of Monson and lies...

How about the widow burying her children with only a spoon? (GC a couple of sessions ago... my BS meter went off big time with that story)

 

 That story was just ridiculous!

 
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Tessa:
If god has a sense of humor, he'd make Monson Lactose Intolerant.

 

 that's a great response

 

TBM starts blabbing on about 'milk before meat'

 

Apostate answer; yeah, but what about those who are lactose intolerant?

 

 

hahahah 

 
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Hold up.....there really was a General Conference talk given about a widow burying her children with a spoon?!? Wow.....I really am in active. Lol
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esta:
Hold up.....there really was a General Conference talk given about a widow burying her children with a spoon?!? Wow.....I really am in active. Lol

 

 HA! I know the feeling.  I'm so out of touch with everything mormon.  A part of me wants to keep it that way but since my mom and sisters are very TBM i've just had accept the fact that it will always have to take up some corner of my reality.  It's made easier to keep that corner tiny by the fact that i only live near one of my siblings and she and I haven't spoken in two years and counting.

 

I always hated GC's.  Such a mind numbing waste of time.  I was always so bored.  You'd think I'd remember them more because my mother made me take notes and report on the talks. 

 

I think i've managed to repress most of my church memories.

 
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esta:
Hold up.....there really was a General Conference talk given about a widow burying her children with a spoon?!? Wow.....I really am in active. Lol

 

 Yeah, the April of 2009 Sunday Morning session... the reference is quite long, but near the middle-end of the talk be of good cheer. 

 

 

It made my blood boil at the time, and I was even more shocked that my family would believe such crud, and not see through it! Excuse me! But do you even know how long it takes to dig a grave with PROPER equipment?  (At least 3 hours... in the olden times, when there were shovels, it could take 3 days. So imagine how long a spoon would take, and in frozen dirt, how much the spoon would wear away!)

 

Yeah, BS meters went off big time! 

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Troubled Wife:
esta:
Hold up.....there really was a General Conference talk given about a widow burying her children with a spoon?!? Wow.....I really am in active. Lol

 

 Yeah, the April of 2009 Sunday Morning session... the reference is quite long, but near the middle-end of the talk be of good cheer. 

 

 

It made my blood boil at the time, and I was even more shocked that my family would believe such crud, and not see through it! Excuse me! But do you even know how long it takes to dig a grave with PROPER equipment?  (At least 3 hours... in the olden times, when there were shovels, it could take 3 days. So imagine how long a spoon would take, and in frozen dirt, how much the spoon would wear away!)

 

Yeah, BS meters went off big time! 

 

Wait, wait, wait!  Maybe you're misunderstanding the dear profit!  Maybe he meant that the widow buried her children with a spoon ... in the coffin?  That changes everything!  She was simply, as did the Egyptians, providing for their travel needs.  I carry a big spoon in the glove compartment of my car, in case of nuclear annihilation, so's I can survive on canned goods found in stores and home, or wherever I might find them.  I also have a can opener, but maybe they hadn't been invented back when this widow was being so provident?

 
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oh .  I just read it.  They're really going for the emotional jugular there.

 

That's one of my biggest issues with the church.  The way they manipulate people emotionally so they'll "feel the spirit".

 
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Troubled Wife:
esta:
Hold up.....there really was a General Conference talk given about a widow burying her children with a spoon?!? Wow.....I really am in active. Lol

 

 Yeah, the April of 2009 Sunday Morning session... the reference is quite long, but near the middle-end of the talk be of good cheer. 

 

 

It made my blood boil at the time, and I was even more shocked that my family would believe such crud, and not see through it! Excuse me! But do you even know how long it takes to dig a grave with PROPER equipment?  (At least 3 hours... in the olden times, when there were shovels, it could take 3 days. So imagine how long a spoon would take, and in frozen dirt, how much the spoon would wear away!)

 

Yeah, BS meters went off big time! 

 

Maybe she was surrounded by angels who were armed with spoons of their own?

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I think the reason Monson looks like a coward and has no confidence is he really reasly thought he would get a chance to talk with God. I think he really believed in the fairy tale. It's like finding out Santa Claus isn't real but not wanting to let everyone else know that you know. I wonder if he thinks the people aren't righteous enough for him to be visited in the holy of holies?
 
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Elder OldDog:
Troubled Wife:
esta:
Hold up.....there really was a General Conference talk given about a widow burying her children with a spoon?!? Wow.....I really am in active. Lol

 

 Yeah, the April of 2009 Sunday Morning session... the reference is quite long, but near the middle-end of the talk be of good cheer. 

 

 

It made my blood boil at the time, and I was even more shocked that my family would believe such crud, and not see through it! Excuse me! But do you even know how long it takes to dig a grave with PROPER equipment?  (At least 3 hours... in the olden times, when there were shovels, it could take 3 days. So imagine how long a spoon would take, and in frozen dirt, how much the spoon would wear away!)

 

Yeah, BS meters went off big time! 

 

Wait, wait, wait!  Maybe you're misunderstanding the dear profit!  Maybe he meant that the widow buried her children with a spoon ... in the coffin?  That changes everything!  She was simply, as did the Egyptians, providing for their travel needs.  I carry a big spoon in the glove compartment of my car, in case of nuclear annihilation, so's I can survive on canned goods found in stores and home, or wherever I might find them.  I also have a can opener, but maybe they hadn't been invented back when this widow was being so provident?

 

 It would definitely make it more plausable... and to the other's of the time, it probably wouldn't have made a hill of beans sense!

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heathjh:
I think the reason Monson looks like a coward and has no confidence is he really reasly thought he would get a chance to talk with God. I think he really believed in the fairy tale. It's like finding out Santa Claus isn't real but not wanting to let everyone else know that you know. I wonder if he thinks the people aren't righteous enough for him to be visited in the holy of holies?

 

 I can just imagine, a kid (Monson) opening his gift with anxious, excited, awe, only to find an empty room. No voices, no out of body experience, no treasure. Feeling really saddened that he'd been led to believe such wonderful things, and realizing the promises are empty... 

Just opposite the reactions of "Polar Express".

Yeah, I think he's got more of the "deer in the headlights look"... not wanting to spoil it all for the rest of the dimwits (oh, not everyone is a dimwit... look at us, We've figured it out!)... yet wondering if it's just him.

If he ever gets the idea really stuck in his head that the followers aren't being righteous enough, he'll probably turn mean, and get a really bad scoul on his face.  Oh, I used to think that already at times.

 

At least GBH let people know in his own way (at least I hope that's what he was doing), that he didn't really believe, but he couldn't step away either. I mean, telling the world that it's either all true or the biggest hoax... I think he really knew, but couldn't spill the beans outright. 

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Troubled Wife:

 

 I can just imagine, a kid (Monson) opening his gift with anxious, excited, awe, only to find an empty room. No voices, no out of body experience...

 

Well, that just means the Holy of Holies doesn't have the right...equipment...if you know what I mean.

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Lloyd Dobler:

You know as a young man growing up in the 80s and getting off my mission in 92, Monson was always the man.  Funny, great stories.  To me it was always about when he was going to be prophet.  Like Monson was always going to make an amazing prophet in my opinion.  Called to the apostleship so early.  That amazing photographic memory (or so my MP told me).......

 

what a bust he is as prophet.  I  remember his first address as prophet.  He did no look confident.  It was really bad.  If anything, he has made a point to say as little as possible.  I think he is just killing time until he dies, trying to keep comfortable and eat chocolate.

 

worst prophet in i don't know how long.  worse than hunter even.  dude is totally boring as prophet and is a coward. 

 

REALLY?!?!?!?  I was on a mission in the late 80's.  The other missionaries always got excited when Monson would talk... but honestly, I couldn't stand it.  To me, Monson always appeared to be very phony.  His stories seemed improbable.  And something about the cadence in his speaking voice is worse than fingernails on a chalkboard.  Not sure why I never liked him, but there's something about him that just seems a bit off. 

 
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Troubled Wife:
Speaking of Monson and lies...

How about the widow burying her children with only a spoon? (GC a couple of sessions ago... my BS meter went off big time with that story)

 

That story might not be perfectly true, but the talk does cite a reference where the story is found in a 1972 book where it's presumably portrayed as a true story; so any lie there isn't Monson's. (And unlike some of his other stories, this tragic situation was not caused by the church or someone's ill-placed faith in it. The tragedy was political rather than religious, apparently.)

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Rational Basis:
Troubled Wife:
Speaking of Monson and lies...

How about the widow burying her children with only a spoon? (GC a couple of sessions ago... my BS meter went off big time with that story)

 

That story might not be perfectly true, but the talk does cite a reference where the story is found in a 1972 book where it's presumably portrayed as a true story; so any lie there isn't Monson's. (And unlike some of his other stories, this tragic situation was not caused by the church or someone's ill-placed faith in it. The tragedy was political rather than religious, apparently.)

 

 who was it by? Paul H. Dunn?

 

 

 
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Lloyd Dobler:

You know as a young man growing up in the 80s and getting off my mission in 92, Monson was always the man.  Funny, great stories.  To me it was always about when he was going to be prophet.  Like Monson was always going to make an amazing prophet in my opinion.  Called to the apostleship so early.  That amazing photographic memory (or so my MP told me).......

 

what a bust he is as prophet.  I  remember his first address as prophet.  He did no look confident.  It was really bad.  If anything, he has made a point to say as little as possible.  I think he is just killing time until he dies, trying to keep comfortable and eat chocolate.

 

worst prophet in i don't know how long.  worse than hunter even.  dude is totally boring as prophet and is a coward. 

 

I had the same thoughts! I remember growing up thinking "Hinckley's great, but Monson? He is gonna be the best!". Even as a TBM, I slowly realized what a terrible prophet he is (although I tried to shut such an evil thought out, of course). All he does is tell touching stories to touch our emotions and then make everyone think it's the spirit. He rarely talks about doctrine.

 

Honestly, I think he is doing this because he knows it ain't true, but he's petrified to let his conscious mind admit that. So he's just trying to ride out the rest of life telling stories instead of preaching false doctrine. I would probably do the same thing if I didn't have the courage to publicly admit that I didn't believe anymore. 

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Every Prophet since JS have been deer-in-the-headlights....never admitting when they haven't had Jesus sit in on their lives....while they pretend he does. They participate in the scam, hook-line-and-sinker. And the gullible support their insanity. Their empire would crumble if even one of them said...nope...no Jesus.
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Monson has told a certain story differently, quite significantly, in a few talks.  The details of the story that can be checked easily seem to indicate there is no such person that he referred to.  Here is the scoop.

 

(got the talk off of lds.org)

 

Story Time Number One:

 

Time Frame:  Monson was a First Counselor in the First Presidency, and he makes reference to the passing of President Faust, so it was pretty recent maybe 2007...so during Hinkley's reign?)

 

Setting: General Conference Talk

 

Story: About his "childhood" friend "Arthur Patton".  So this guy must have lived in Salt Lake, certainly Utah, Monson grew up in Salt Lake.  Arthur died at a "young age".  The story recounts that he died in March 1944 aboard the USS White Plains (an aircraft carrier).  The battle was "Saipan" and the ship was attacked and "Arthur was one of those on board lost at sea".

 

Story Time Number Two:

 

Time Frame: April 6, 1969

 

Setting: General Conference Talk

 

Story: Arthur Patton, boyhood friend, dies at sea aboard the USS Lexington during a battle in May 1942.  Arthur appearance is described in detail by Monson, "blonde, taller than any in his class", etc.

 

I understand this story has been told other times by Monson.

 

Anyway the stories are different and specific.  Different battles, different years, different ships.

 

BUT, what is most interesting is that a check of Utah war dead from WWII shows NO ARTHUR PATTON.  There is a Kenneth Bingham Patten (Seaman, USN) from Payson, Utah who died, no Arthur from Salt Lake.

 

So is this a lie?  A made up story?  A Paul Dunn gotcha type thing?  Or what is it?

 

I don't know.  It doesn't "feel right".  I'll bet if somebody checked his other stories (helping widows, etc.) there would be some big holes in them also...

 

 
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wildonrio:
Lloyd Dobler:

You know as a young man growing up in the 80s and getting off my mission in 92, Monson was always the man.  Funny, great stories.  To me it was always about when he was going to be prophet.  Like Monson was always going to make an amazing prophet in my opinion.  Called to the apostleship so early.  That amazing photographic memory (or so my MP told me).......

 

what a bust he is as prophet.  I  remember his first address as prophet.  He did no look confident.  It was really bad.  If anything, he has made a point to say as little as possible.  I think he is just killing time until he dies, trying to keep comfortable and eat chocolate.

 

worst prophet in i don't know how long.  worse than hunter even.  dude is totally boring as prophet and is a coward. 

 

I had the same thoughts! I remember growing up thinking "Hinckley's great, but Monson? He is gonna be the best!". Even as a TBM, I slowly realized what a terrible prophet he is (although I tried to shut such an evil thought out, of course). All he does is tell touching stories to touch our emotions and then make everyone think it's the spirit. He rarely talks about doctrine.

 

Honestly, I think he is doing this because he knows it ain't true, but he's petrified to let his conscious mind admit that. So he's just trying to ride out the rest of life telling stories instead of preaching false doctrine. I would probably do the same thing if I didn't have the courage to publicly admit that I didn't believe anymore. 

This may be all that's left.  He's not going to win anybody over in 2011 by talking about [weird, ever-changing] doctrine.  The emotions=spirit lie can be pretty effective.  We DO have feelings and emotions.  All he has to do is tie those feelings to the church and label them the spirit.  I think that's one reason why so many people with doubts hang on so long.  "I can't deny what I felt," they say, accepting without question that the feelings mean something they actually don't.  The feelings are real; the interpretation blindly swallowed.

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