We have all see it (many places, not just LDS land tho that is what I am most familiar with). The girl is found to have lost her virginity and is nearly castigated and shunned and made out to be a slut, whore and not worth anything.
We have all see it (many places, not just LDS land tho that is what I am most familiar with). The girl is found to have lost her virginity and is nearly castigated and shunned and made out to be a slut, whore and not worth anything.
Nothing happens to the boy.
This is so NOT true!!
I think we all know that the boy is comforted and led to understand that it was the girl's fault and that since she was going to be a licked cup cake anyway, it doesn't really matter who got the first nibble, all because she made herself available. How dare she allow him to soil himself with her, that Jezebel!
I hear it works pretty much the same way when a divorce occurs and the female says it's because HE was fooling around. Obviously it's her fault because he would NOT have to fool around if she were a good and proper wife!
I don't see women ever getting the priesthood and being allowed to participate in church discipline and counseling. Too dangerous for men's egos!
I agree that women get more of the blame in this situation which is wrong. I have seen the opposite though. When I was in a combined YM/YM meeting as a youth, the bishop told of a recent YM from the ward who went away to college and had sex, making him unworthy to serve a mission. Talk about placing the scarlet letter on a guy. The bishop was trying to warn us against doing something similar. He didn't name names, but anyone with two brain cells knew who it was—and the guy probably had siblings (or at least a relative) in the room when the bishop said this to us. At the time, I thought it was strange for the bishop to do this, but looking back on it it's disgusting.
Happy Guy:
I agree that women get more of the blame in this situation which is wrong. I have seen the opposite though. When I was in a combined YM/YM meeting as a youth, the bishop told of a recent YM from the ward who went away to college and had sex, making him unworthy to serve a mission. Talk about placing the scarlet letter on a guy. The bishop was trying to warn us against doing something similar. He didn't name names, but anyone with two brain cells knew who it was—and the guy probably had siblings (or at least a relative) in the room when the bishop said this to us. At the time, I thought it was strange for the bishop to do this, but looking back on it it's disgusting.
I've heard tell of a 'raising of the bar' regarding mission worthiness. Back in the day, you could 'repent' and be forgiven and then go serve your mission. Is that no longer the case?
Happy Guy:
I agree that women get more of the blame in this situation which is wrong. I have seen the opposite though. When I was in a combined YM/YM meeting as a youth, the bishop told of a recent YM from the ward who went away to college and had sex, making him unworthy to serve a mission. Talk about placing the scarlet letter on a guy. The bishop was trying to warn us against doing something similar. He didn't name names, but anyone with two brain cells knew who it was—and the guy probably had siblings (or at least a relative) in the room when the bishop said this to us. At the time, I thought it was strange for the bishop to do this, but looking back on it it's disgusting.
I've heard tell of a 'raising of the bar' regarding mission worthiness. Back in the day, you could 'repent' and be forgiven and then go serve your mission. Is that no longer the case?
This was pre-raising the bar, but in my ward, even before the bar was raised we were told it was practically impossible to have sex then serve a mission. I suspect the truth is the guy simply had no desire to serve a mission, he let slip to the bishop he had sex, and the bishop ran with the story to warn the youth.
We have all see it (many places, not just LDS land tho that is what I am most familiar with). The girl is found to have lost her virginity and is nearly castigated and shunned and made out to be a slut, whore and not worth anything.
Nothing happens to the boy.
My very religious father told me about the birds and bees in this using these words."Ecstacy, come here. I have something very important to tell you." "I want you to know that a man can take off his pants many times, BUT a woman can't. The moment a woman takes off her underwear, she becomes forever stained."
We have all see it (many places, not just LDS land tho that is what I am most familiar with). The girl is found to have lost her virginity and is nearly castigated and shunned and made out to be a slut, whore and not worth anything.
Nothing happens to the boy.
This old double standard, along with no priesthood for women, etc. has always made me think that TSCC would be less attractive to women than it is to men. Apparently though, the opposite has long been true.. more women join than men!
I'm going to argue a bit with the thesis of this thread. No offense to Nephi as I think in general the statement is true.
When my oldest son was 16 years old, he was raped by a girl he was dating. Turns out she'd been sexually active...well, since she was five years old and had been repeatedly raped over a period of years by her grandfather. Oddly enough, I actually feel quite a bit of compassion for her rather than anger. This girl later married into my girlfriends family and I've seen firsthand just how batshit crazy she really acts. She's told me herself that she's had sex with more males than she can remember.
However, I am utterly furious with the bishop and what he did to my son. Instead of scheduling rape counseling with LDS Social Services, he entirely blamed my son for being a teenage horn dog, disfellowshiped him, and made a social pariah out of him. I was furious, still am whenever i think about it. This was also about the time that the "raise the bar" thing was announced. I remember sitting in a stake priesthood meeting when they announced that little piece of idiocy. After the meeting was over I walked over to the bishop and said to him, "I strongly disagree with the church's inspiration on "raising the bar." I truly believe the day will come when the church will rue the day they thought that up. The leadership of the church has just told every one of these boys that there is no forgiveness." The bishop didn't much like my interpretation of that, but I wasn't about to be silenced that time.
My son, well, he went on to college a year later at age seventeen and became best friends with two roommates that were part of the local "freethinkers" group. During the four years he was at college, he completely left the church...something for which his mother disowned him. I think that was the first time in my life I was really thoroughly pissed with both the church and my son's mother. Come to think of it, I am still pissed at his mother over it. My son is an amazing young man. He is now working in California for a major medical corporation, in two years has advanced to running the software lab for that company and is making decisions that affect the entire division. He's only 26 years old. Somehow, being made a social pariah became the impetus that propelled him forward and I am extremely proud of him. He and I are very close and I have to admit that his successful exodus from Mormonism gave me the courage to examine all the questions on my personal "shelf."
Oh yes, while my son was being disfellowshiped and made a public example in the ward and stake, this girl was (not much) later married in the temple.
This is all SO up to the individual bishop. There is no inspiration at all. In the bishoprics I served in, the Bishops were very forgiving of youth or even married folk who "slipped up". Yet not 20 minutes away, in my SIL's ward, a man left his wife after she underwent a double mastectomy, and SHE had to turn in her temple recommend because she was going through a divorce. WTF???
I was TBM at the time and it bothered the hell out of me, but I shelved it. Then upon reading the HOI, I found that there was NO doctrinal or procedural requirement for surrendering a temple recommend if the person remains "worthy".
This just evidences the fact that there are many leaders who view TSCC as an old boy's club. They're right, you're wrong, and that's it.
NoLongerASheeple, regarding your son, that is again a bishop overstepping his bounds. My friend Chris was excommunicated for similar "indiscretions". He never served a mission. He never even became an elder. He was re-baptized, and eventually attended a singles ward. The bishop did not like him from the start. He knew of Chris's background and actually told him that he woudl make his life miserable!
Eventually, Chris realized that several of the girls there were "easy" and he took advantage of this. He told me that he never slept with a virgin, only girls who did not take the whole chastity thing seriously. The bishop found out, excommunicated him again, and branded him a sexual predator and warned the entire ward to keep away from Chris.
This just boggles my mind. How can the church excommunicate someone, TWICE, who was never an elder? How can they go on the word of one untrained man to accept him being branded as a sexual predator?
For some reason, Chris eventually got re-baptized, married a mormon girl (although he told me they were sexually active for months before they got married) and had kids. One day he was having a beer with his lunch and his home teacher saw him and told him he was drinking damnation to his soul, and that he was putting his wife and children in eternal peril. The local church leaders started hounding him, and a few months later he took his own life.
As far as your son's mother is concerned, it's just another example of the "family first" values which the church claims are so important! And as for your son, I am thrilled for his success, and for his first hand knowledge that the fruits of apostasy are NOT bitter!
I dunno about that. My husband was not my first. I had one other before him. When we met I was 18 and he was 23 year old virgin. Then we had premarital sex and I became pregnant, he got disfellowshipped and I got no discipline whatsoever.
But then I was inactive as a teenager and that sort of behavior was expected out of me...shrug. He taught gospel doctrine in his ward.
This is all SO up to the individual bishop. There is no inspiration at all. In the bishoprics I served in, the Bishops were very forgiving of youth or even married folk who "slipped up". Yet not 20 minutes away, in my SIL's ward, a man left his wife after she underwent a double mastectomy, and SHE had to turn in her temple recommend because she was going through a divorce. WTF???
I was TBM at the time and it bothered the hell out of me, but I shelved it. Then upon reading the HOI, I found that there was NO doctrinal or procedural requirement for surrendering a temple recommend if the person remains "worthy".
This just evidences the fact that there are many leaders who view TSCC as an old boy's club. They're right, you're wrong, and that's it.
NoLongerASheeple, regarding your son, that is again a bishop overstepping his bounds. My friend Chris was excommunicated for similar "indiscretions". He never served a mission. He never even became an elder. He was re-baptized, and eventually attended a singles ward. The bishop did not like him from the start. He knew of Chris's background and actually told him that he woudl make his life miserable!
Eventually, Chris realized that several of the girls there were "easy" and he took advantage of this. He told me that he never slept with a virgin, only girls who did not take the whole chastity thing seriously. The bishop found out, excommunicated him again, and branded him a sexual predator and warned the entire ward to keep away from Chris.
This just boggles my mind. How can the church excommunicate someone, TWICE, who was never an elder? How can they go on the word of one untrained man to accept him being branded as a sexual predator?
For some reason, Chris eventually got re-baptized, married a mormon girl (although he told me they were sexually active for months before they got married) and had kids. One day he was having a beer with his lunch and his home teacher saw him and told him he was drinking damnation to his soul, and that he was putting his wife and children in eternal peril. The local church leaders started hounding him, and a few months later he took his own life.
As far as your son's mother is concerned, it's just another example of the "family first" values which the church claims are so important! And as for your son, I am thrilled for his success, and for his first hand knowledge that the fruits of apostasy are NOT bitter!
As far as I am concerned the church leaders should be held responsible for your friend's death. It is nothing short of spiritual bullying.
After my son didn't see his mother more than a couple times over a period of about 5 years, I think she started to realize how much she'd hurt him. Over the last year, I've seen her starting to try to reach out to my son a little...maybe even starting to come to a little bit of acceptance that he isn't coming back and if she ever wants to have a relationship with him, she's going to have to make the effort. If she will treat him decently, I want it to happen. If she hurts him again, I'm going to rip her a new asshole.
