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Church Buildings Vandalized in Idaho…..(news link)
 
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http://www.localnews8.com/news/fbi-offers-reward-in-church-vandalism-case/-/308662/24694478/-/82puvlz/-/index.html

 

And I'm being indirectly (albiet very indirectly) blamed. This story was emailed to me by a (now ex) friend that said..

 

"I have noticed you becoming more outspoken against the church lately.  This is the kind of thing that happens when people critize the church and incite anger. You need to stop."

 

There was more to the email, asking me to stop posting things on facebook and the such that is "anti" mormon, and calling me to repentance because as a conerned friend she just wants to see me back in the church and happy.  Barf. 

 

Anyways, the building was vandalized with the phrase "you will pay for what you've done" and "Burn mormons", and the crime is being investigated as a hate crime by the FBI.  I was absoutely floored when I got this email saying that it's people (including myself specifically) speaking out against the church and inciting anger that is responsible for things like this.  Absoutely  no responsibility put on the actual person that did this.  Nope, it's my fault.  But "you will pay for what you've done" sounds like someone who has been harmed in some way acting out.  And before anyone says that sounds like I'm condong this, I'm not.  I do not believe in causing damage to get a point across.  After having a good cry about being treated so horribly by someone I thought was a friend, I just felt the need to vent.  Thanks for being a soft place to land.  

 

Edited to add: It was more than one building, with several other things also painted on, such as genatalia and the such. 

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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.  ~Edmund Burke

 
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That's quite the "friend" you have there! Is the friendship worth saving? If so, don't reply with snark. 

 

Here are my suggestions, for what they're worth. You know her better than I do, so you may have better insight as to what will work with her and what won't.

 

Ask her if she believes in the Articles of Faith. Most surely she will answer yes.

 

Then remind her that men will be punished for THEIR OWN sins, not for Adam's transgression. She CANNOT pin the acts of others upon you!

 

Also, JUDGE NOT, as it says in the Bible. She CANNOT judge you for what you put on facebook and the cause-effect it may have on others. That is un-christlike and morally irresponsible.

 

You might ask her to read this talk by President Uchtdorf from last conference, specifically this part:

 

-

The search for truth has led millions of people to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. However, there are some who leave the Church they once loved.

 

One might ask, “If the gospel is so wonderful, why would anyone leave?”

 

Sometimes we assume it is because they have been offended or lazy or sinful. Actually, it is not that simple. In fact, there is not just one reason that applies to the variety of situations.

 

Some of our dear members struggle for years with the question whether they should separate themselves from the Church.

 

In this Church that honors personal agency so strongly, that was restored by a young man who asked questions and sought answers, we respect those who honestly search for truth. It may break our hearts when their journey takes them away from the Church we love and the truth we have found, but we honor their right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own conscience, just as we claim that privilege for ourselves. 

 

You may also wish to tell her that it is not right or fair of her to judge you or call you out on your beliefs until she gives you the opportunity to explain why you now believe the way you do. (Of course, she probably won't take you up on that!)

 

Finally, remind her that Facebook was not developed as a soapbox for religionists. She is just as welcome to post her own views as you are. If she doesn't like it, she can block your comments or unfriend you. You are 100% within your rights to say what you want on facebook, as is she.

 

Your mileage may vary. 

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AprilT:

http://www.localnews8.com/news/fbi-offers-reward-in-church-vandalism-case/-/308662/24694478/-/82puvlz/-/index.html

 

And I'm being indirectly (albiet very indirectly) blamed. This story was emailed to me by a (now ex) friend that said..

 

"I have noticed you becoming more outspoken against the church lately.  This is the kind of thing that happens when people critize the church and incite anger. You need to stop."

 

There was more to the email, asking me to stop posting things on facebook and the such that is "anti" mormon, and calling me to repentance because as a conerned friend she just wants to see me back in the church and happy.  Barf. 

 

Anyways, the building was vandalized with the phrase "you will pay for what you've done" and "Burn mormons", and the crime is being investigated as a hate crime by the FBI.  I was absoutely floored when I got this email saying that it's people (including myself specifically) speaking out against the church and inciting anger that is responsible for things like this.  Absoutely  no responsibility put on the actual person that did this.  Nope, it's my fault.  But "you will pay for what you've done" sounds like someone who has been harmed in some way acting out.  And before anyone says that sounds like I'm condong this, I'm not.  I do not believe in causing damage to get a point across.  After having a good cry about being treated so horribly by someone I thought was a friend, I just felt the need to vent.  Thanks for being a soft place to land.  

 

Edited to add: It was more than one building, with several other things also painted on, such as genatalia and the such. 

 

I think this harassment email to you needs looked at with a lawyer with the possibility of legal action toward this imbecile of a so called friend. It in itself deserves newspaper and television airtime.

 

 

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One is as committed into testimony as much as they pay into the belief in dollars time talent and energy. Afterall, it has to be true once you signed the lifetime subscription and you have a track record to defend.

 
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FreeLive:
AprilT:

http://www.localnews8.com/news/fbi-offers-reward-in-church-vandalism-case/-/308662/24694478/-/82puvlz/-/index.html

 

And I'm being indirectly (albiet very indirectly) blamed. This story was emailed to me by a (now ex) friend that said..

 

"I have noticed you becoming more outspoken against the church lately.  This is the kind of thing that happens when people critize the church and incite anger. You need to stop."

 

There was more to the email, asking me to stop posting things on facebook and the such that is "anti" mormon, and calling me to repentance because as a conerned friend she just wants to see me back in the church and happy.  Barf. 

 

Anyways, the building was vandalized with the phrase "you will pay for what you've done" and "Burn mormons", and the crime is being investigated as a hate crime by the FBI.  I was absoutely floored when I got this email saying that it's people (including myself specifically) speaking out against the church and inciting anger that is responsible for things like this.  Absoutely  no responsibility put on the actual person that did this.  Nope, it's my fault.  But "you will pay for what you've done" sounds like someone who has been harmed in some way acting out.  And before anyone says that sounds like I'm condong this, I'm not.  I do not believe in causing damage to get a point across.  After having a good cry about being treated so horribly by someone I thought was a friend, I just felt the need to vent.  Thanks for being a soft place to land.  

 

Edited to add: It was more than one building, with several other things also painted on, such as genatalia and the such. 

 

I think this harassment email to you needs looked at with a lawyer with the possibility of legal action toward this imbecile of a so called friend. It in itself deserves newspaper and television airtime.

 

 

 If obtaining an attorney sounds too expensive, you might check into Legal Shield.  The company has been around since 1972 and is very legit.  For $17 a month, you have unlimited access to advice from an attorney--every business day, unlimited questions.  They will also make a free phone call or write a free letter--say to your ex-friend.  There is a one time enrollment fee of $10 and that is it.  No long term contract.  Cancel anytime.  They are out of Ada, OK.  If you end up with a local LDS attorney and he/she does not treat you right, you can complain to the home office and get a new attorney.  I have had it for years and sell it but am not in your state.  You can sign up on the web.  LegalShield.com. They will defend you if someone trys to sue you for free up to so many hours that grow every year.  Great product for the price.  Sorry about your jerk friend.  You don't need that false friend.  You have us and we rock!

 

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I laughed out loud and said “Thank you sir. And I hope every time you hear the name of JS you don’t think about him having sex with those girls and the women who were already married because if you’re going to start being honest with yourself then sooner or later you will also realize a real god would never do that, a real prophet would never do that, and it’s all just bull shit.”
Oh mercy, it just felt so damn good to say that.  —BOLD WISH

 
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It may help to consider how very real rejection of churches and organized religion is becoming.  Of course, you are in NO WAY responsible for what an out of control person does and you're in NO WAY responsible to someone who is, basically, panicking and lashing out.  Who knows?  She may even be a person beginning to wrestle with her own doubts or someone who resents that you've been brave enough to chart your own course.

 
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I'm a free-speech absolutist. People are entitled to say what they want.

 

It's when voices aren't heard or are suppressed that people find other ways of making their feelings known. Put another way, putting your thoughts into words means you generally don't have to put your feelings into violence.

 

The people who did this should be found and punished. Whatever one's feelings about an institution are, the proper course to redress bad speech (whether it be anti-gay or something) is more speech.

 

It's unfortunate your friend is blaming you for this.

 

Corollary to this, we should all realize that people are usually satisfied to express themselves with speech. All too often various groups and individuals get labeled unjustly as violent because we disagree with what they've said. A few examples -- like equating Mormons to the Taliban (they're not), the Tea Party with violent insurrectionists, Democrats with Communists (and by extension, N. Korea / Cuba) have even been expressed on this board. Just as we all should realize our own speech doesn't legitimize any kind of violence, violence is not the intent of those we disagree with either.

 
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FreeLive:
AprilT:

http://www.localnews8.com/news/fbi-offers-reward-in-church-vandalism-case/-/308662/24694478/-/82puvlz/-/index.html

 

And I'm being indirectly (albiet very indirectly) blamed. This story was emailed to me by a (now ex) friend that said..

 

"I have noticed you becoming more outspoken against the church lately.  This is the kind of thing that happens when people critize the church and incite anger. You need to stop."

 

There was more to the email, asking me to stop posting things on facebook and the such that is "anti" mormon, and calling me to repentance because as a conerned friend she just wants to see me back in the church and happy.  Barf. 

 

Anyways, the building was vandalized with the phrase "you will pay for what you've done" and "Burn mormons", and the crime is being investigated as a hate crime by the FBI.  I was absoutely floored when I got this email saying that it's people (including myself specifically) speaking out against the church and inciting anger that is responsible for things like this.  Absoutely  no responsibility put on the actual person that did this.  Nope, it's my fault.  But "you will pay for what you've done" sounds like someone who has been harmed in some way acting out.  And before anyone says that sounds like I'm condong this, I'm not.  I do not believe in causing damage to get a point across.  After having a good cry about being treated so horribly by someone I thought was a friend, I just felt the need to vent.  Thanks for being a soft place to land.  

 

Edited to add: It was more than one building, with several other things also painted on, such as genatalia and the such. 

 

I think this harassment email to you needs looked at with a lawyer with the possibility of legal action toward this imbecile of a so called friend. It in itself deserves newspaper and television airtime.

 

 

 

 Certainly in poor taste and par for course with TBMs "defending the faith, but likely not something for which you'd have a cause of action.  Had your "friend" taken out a flier blaming you, or started talking about you and blaming you publicly (and especially if this happened in your community and you'd suffered reputational harm), you might have a claim for libel or slander (libel = written/literature, slander = spoken...that's the easy way to remember which applies in each case).  Just a personal email, that's much more of a stretch unless there's a larger pattern of harassment or bullying.*

 

*Disclaimer - the foregoing does not constitute legal advice, nor does it form an attorney client relationship between us.  If you feel you need advice of counsel, please contact your own legal counsel. 

 

As another aside, we're far to litigious as a society. generally, I think suing someone should be the very last course of action after all attempts at handling things civilly break down. 

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“Nell,” the Constable continued, indicating through his tone of voice that the lesson was concluding, “the difference between ignorant and educated people is that the latter know more facts. But that has nothing to do with whether they are stupid or intelligent. The difference between stupid and intelligent people—and this is true whether or not they are well-educated—is that intelligent people can handle subtlety. They are not baffled by ambiguous or even contradictory situations—in fact, they expect them and are apt to become suspicious when things seem overly straightforward.”

From “The Diamond Age” - Neal Stevenson

 
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sak_pase:

I'm a free-speech absolutist.

 

I like the great points that you have made however I do not agree that false allegation innuendo or the start of a snotty rumor is legal or moral. Therefore I think they may say what they wish but they must be ready for repercussions for provably false statements. I do believe that there is a fraud case now being processed in the UK over untruths that can be proved false.

 

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One is as committed into testimony as much as they pay into the belief in dollars time talent and energy. Afterall, it has to be true once you signed the lifetime subscription and you have a track record to defend.

 
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FreeLive:
sak_pase:

I'm a free-speech absolutist.

 

I like the great points that you have made however I do not agree that false allegation innuendo or the start of a snotty rumor is legal or moral. Therefore I think they may say what they wish but they must be ready for repercussions for provably false statements. I do believe that there is a fraud case now being processed in the UK over untruths that can be proved false.

 

 

 My point was intended to be in your favor. Namely, that what you say -- unless it's a direct incitement to violence or damage -- in no way makes you responsible for what others do. 

 

It's a two-edged sword. You're free to say bad things about the church. Its members are free to say bad things about you. Unless they've made false claims about your responsibility (ie, accused you directly over the pulpit) in the crime, it doesn't make what they're saying illegal. We can see for ourselves whose speech is winning out.

 

Many European democracies still have anti-blasphemy laws on the books. Here's one such example from Greece:

http://www.volokh.com/2014/01/19/prison-blasphemy/

 

Imagine how much harder it would be to operate sites like this in a country where blasphemy is still a crime 

 

The LDS church is a uniquely American church. I believe it'll go away in a uniquely American fashion -- destroyed not by government fiat or by men with torches, but by the words of its departed members.

 
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AprilT:

http://www.localnews8.com/news/fbi-offers-reward-in-church-vandalism-case/-/308662/24694478/-/82puvlz/-/index.html

 

And I'm being indirectly (albiet very indirectly) blamed. This story was emailed to me by a (now ex) friend that said..

 

"I have noticed you becoming more outspoken against the church lately.  This is the kind of thing that happens when people critize the church and incite anger. You need to stop."

 

There was more to the email, asking me to stop posting things on facebook and the such that is "anti" mormon, and calling me to repentance because as a conerned friend she just wants to see me back in the church and happy.  Barf. 

 

Anyways, the building was vandalized with the phrase "you will pay for what you've done" and "Burn mormons", and the crime is being investigated as a hate crime by the FBI.  I was absoutely floored when I got this email saying that it's people (including myself specifically) speaking out against the church and inciting anger that is responsible for things like this.  Absoutely  no responsibility put on the actual person that did this.  Nope, it's my fault.  But "you will pay for what you've done" sounds like someone who has been harmed in some way acting out.  And before anyone says that sounds like I'm condong this, I'm not.  I do not believe in causing damage to get a point across.  After having a good cry about being treated so horribly by someone I thought was a friend, I just felt the need to vent.  Thanks for being a soft place to land.  

 

Edited to add: It was more than one building, with several other things also painted on, such as genatalia and the such. 

 

Keep in mind that you're (we're) just the messenger.  The root cause of the criticism lies with the liars that lead the church.

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I think as angry as I was with TSCC at the time I'd left, I wouldn't go as far as to write graffiti on the walls of the church building.

I don't think it's fair that your friend is making these false accusations against you, but I would definitely try the peaceful approach first and use her "gospal" against her so to speak, just as people pointed out earlier in this thread.

I think before seeking legal action, you have to remember that this "friend" has been brain washed in the church, and therefore is more likely to blame such actions on their nearest target, someone who has left the church, than to actually blame the real person. I actually think that may be human nature. Obviously someone was butt hurt by the church and lashed out at it, and so they assume that you're associated with this nonsense because you left. We all know that isn't true, but that's probably how your "friend" sees it. I would try to reconcile your friendship first, and get to the legal actions later. A good friendship should remain a friendship even if you leave a church. I have a friend who is still a BAC and while we do get into some political and religious arguments, I still view him as a brother after 18 years. I think there is hope, but a friendship is something you both need to work at. I'd also encourage your friend that you're not going to force her to leave the church either, and that you're welcome to respect her beliefs, but ask that she respects yours in return.

 
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Making a guess here, but would be willing to bet one Idaho Lottery ticket, that the "vandals" are members of the buildings' wards. Disgruntled teenagers.
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I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin

 
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Tessa:
Making a guess here, but would be willing to bet one Idaho Lottery ticket, that the "vandals" are members of the buildings' wards. Disgruntled teenagers.

 

Based on the non-textual content of the graffiti (i.e. genital iconography) I think you're probably right!

 

I wonder whether they're upset about them and their friends being coerced to have conversations of a sexual nature with creepy bishops, or whether they're upset more generally about the whole clusterfunk that is Mormonism. While violence and vandalism are inappropriate, we know the church doesn't respond to direct communication from the people it coerces. In the case of teens, that coercion usually takes place under the endorsement of parental authority.

 

What avenue of expression is left for the unbelieving LDS teenager? Non-confidential therapy sessions with LDS Social Services? Arguments with authoritarian parents or bishops with whom said parents will force them to have private interviews every six months? Graffiti is what you get for sexually harassing teens who figure out the con but are powerless to escape.

 
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kinderhooker:
Tessa:
Making a guess here, but would be willing to bet one Idaho Lottery ticket, that the "vandals" are members of the buildings' wards. Disgruntled teenagers.

 

Based on the non-textual content of the graffiti (i.e. genital iconography) I think you're probably right!

 

I wonder whether they're upset about them and their friends being coerced to have conversations of a sexual nature with creepy bishops, or whether they're upset more generally about the whole clusterfunk that is Mormonism. While violence and vandalism are inappropriate, we know the church doesn't respond to direct communication from the people it coerces. In the case of teens, that coercion usually takes place under the endorsement of parental authority.

 

What avenue of expression is left for the unbelieving LDS teenager? Non-confidential therapy sessions with LDS Social Services? Arguments with authoritarian parents or bishops with whom said parents will force them to have private interviews every six months? Graffiti is what you get for sexually harassing teens who figure out the con but are powerless to escape.

 

Great observations!!

 

I, like the rest here, can only guess as to who might have been behind the graffiti and what motivated them....but kinderhooker's description of the situation many Mormon teens find themselves in is accurate and striking.

 

Sexually harassed and powerless to escape

 

I can certainly see how this could lead to acting out. 

 

SG

 
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AprilT:

http://www.localnews8.com/news/fbi-offers-reward-in-church-vandalism-case/-/308662/24694478/-/82puvlz/-/index.html

 

And I'm being indirectly (albiet very indirectly) blamed. This story was emailed to me by a (now ex) friend that said..

 

"I have noticed you becoming more outspoken against the church lately.  This is the kind of thing that happens when people critize the church and incite anger. You need to stop."

 

There was more to the email, asking me to stop posting things on facebook and the such that is "anti" mormon, and calling me to repentance because as a conerned friend she just wants to see me back in the church and happy.  Barf. 

 

Anyways, the building was vandalized with the phrase "you will pay for what you've done" and "Burn mormons", and the crime is being investigated as a hate crime by the FBI.  I was absoutely floored when I got this email saying that it's people (including myself specifically) speaking out against the church and inciting anger that is responsible for things like this.  Absoutely  no responsibility put on the actual person that did this.  Nope, it's my fault.  But "you will pay for what you've done" sounds like someone who has been harmed in some way acting out.  And before anyone says that sounds like I'm condong this, I'm not.  I do not believe in causing damage to get a point across.  After having a good cry about being treated so horribly by someone I thought was a friend, I just felt the need to vent.  Thanks for being a soft place to land.  

 

Edited to add: It was more than one building, with several other things also painted on, such as genatalia and the such. 

 

I'm so sorry you experienced this from your "friend."  Her comments are, frankly, appalling.

 

As you can see, you have lot's of support here, I too am glad you had this soft place to land. 

 

SG

 
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Now that I've had a day to let this marinate, I'm inclined to believe that my friend was upset about the vandalism (she lives close, though not in the same town) and lashed out at the first person she could think of.  I haven't replied at this point, I don't know if I ever will.  I think I'm more inclined to just let it be and walk myself out of her life.  The funny thing is, I don't use facebook for anything besides sharing family news, and things of that nature.  I did post one picture of me wearing a tank top (gasp!) and a comment on the recent ensign article that has been talked about on other threads.  The only place I talk about my experience leaving is here, and on my personal blog, which I think has 5 readers now.  LOL!

 

Judging by the vandalism itself, I'm inclined to agree that it looks like teenagers.  I'm keeping an open mind because of the phrase "you'll pay for what you've done".  I just hope and pray that whatever was done was not something like child rape or physical abuse, and was more just being uncomfortable being asked about masturbation.  I always think there are better ways of seeking restitution for some wrong against you besides criminal acts.  How sad it would be if it is someone who has been harmed and felt like this was the only way to be heard.  

 

Thank you all for the advice, and for helping me bring it back into perspective.  I tend to be sensitive sometimes and take things more personally than I probably should.  It's pretty great having somewhere I feel safe while working through these things.

 

And thank you for the information on legal aid.  I have saved that information for future use on some other things that I thought I had run out of options for.  Forever grateful! 

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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.  ~Edmund Burke

 
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Thank you both sak_pase and Hitchen's Razor for following up on the legal review for the possibilities of litigation on this breach of friendship of AprilT's nomorefriend. I for one would not stand still and roll over like a good TBM and let it slide. I would start looking into the news story outlets on this fear mongering religionists "(albeit very indirectly blamed)" message statements. This next level of harassment is news worthy. Blind retaliatory blasts out into cyber-space with no facts are no better than the original graffiti and in my opinion may be worse where an innocent known 'friend' is targeted to be hit by the HATE arrow. I especially did like the follow up commentaries that fleshed out possible motivations that most likely a youth involved in the "trespassing and vandalism" is the story in the first place. People do have to talk and deal with frustrations especially when the so called church only adds to the dung heap of moral infringement. I too add my supporting vote that some youth most likely is hurting and there most likely is an ugly story of abuse by the monster of the church corporation in adding to that pain. As I wrote originally but has been not talked about, "It in itself deserves newspaper and television airtime." This internet attack is a news worthy story. Thank you for divulging this experience AprilT!

 

With our absolute free speech I can wonder out loud if maybe that ex friend has a few other friends in the news lately... One may have went and bought up all the t-shirts in a store. Another one may have started a blog about a movie Frozen. Many others , so many others.

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FreeLive:

"Thank you both sak_pase and Hitchen's Razor for following up on the legal review for the possibilities of litigation on this breach of friendship of AprilT's nomorefriend. I for one would not stand still and roll over like a good TBM and let it slide."

 

 I'm not an advocate for rolling over and letting things slide, just a fan of jumping to "sue them" as the first solution for anything, ever.  If you haven't seen it yet, I posted a long back and forth I had with a long ago ex/super TBM where my last words ended up being "F$%& off" I don't back down when prodded enough.  Given that I am an attorney by training, I can be tenacious and potentially obnoxious in a verbal or written back and forth if the other side decides to continue prodding me, but unless something was actionable AND I thought that something would actually be gained in exchange for my giving more than two F&%4s, I'd find another way to add friction/pain to the other person at the lowest investment of my time/resources.

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“Nell,” the Constable continued, indicating through his tone of voice that the lesson was concluding, “the difference between ignorant and educated people is that the latter know more facts. But that has nothing to do with whether they are stupid or intelligent. The difference between stupid and intelligent people—and this is true whether or not they are well-educated—is that intelligent people can handle subtlety. They are not baffled by ambiguous or even contradictory situations—in fact, they expect them and are apt to become suspicious when things seem overly straightforward.”

From “The Diamond Age” - Neal Stevenson

 
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Re: "I have noticed you becoming more outspoken against the church lately.  This is the kind of thing that happens when people critize the church and incite anger. You need to stop."

 

I love how in the siege mentality Mormon mind, criticism = incite anger. 

 

This is first cousin to the Mormon 'dissention confusion'.

Sorry former friend, in the real world people can explore difference in an attempt to better approach a sound understanding of issues.  In MormonLaLaLand leaders are too fragile to accomodate critique, and the only history acceptable has been thorougherly laundered.

 

And regularly re-laundered.

In addition to learning how to spell as part of a broader familiaristion with the concept of of healthy criticism, this person suffers from the common Mormon boundary ailment - blindness. They feel anger about the criticism (as conditioned), they confuse their anger with 'attackers anger', and therefore you should be contrained.

Who knew so much sloppy thinking skills could be exposed in just three sentences.

 

Daryl 

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Our life is the creation of our minds, and we do much of that creating in metaphor…. With the wrong metaphor we are deluded; with no metaphor we are blind. ’ Jonathan Haidt

and I am responsible for the metaphors that populate my mind.’ Daryl

 
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Hitchen&#;s Razor:
FreeLive:

"Thank you both sak_pase and Hitchen's Razor for following up on the legal review for the possibilities of litigation on this breach of friendship of AprilT's nomorefriend. I for one would not stand still and roll over like a good TBM and let it slide."

 

 I'm not an advocate for rolling over and letting things slide, just a fan of jumping to "sue them" as the first solution for anything, ever.  If you haven't seen it yet, I posted a long back and forth I had with a long ago ex/super TBM where my last words ended up being "F$%& off" I don't back down when prodded enough.  Given that I am an attorney by training, I can be tenacious and potentially obnoxious in a verbal or written back and forth if the other side decides to continue prodding me, but unless something was actionable AND I thought that something would actually be gained in exchange for my giving more than two F&%4s, I'd find another way to add friction/pain to the other person at the lowest investment of my time/resources.

 

 People whose first instinct is to say "Sue them!" have probably never been on either the receiving or delivering end of a lawsuit. And in the US, people can spread rumor and innuendo all they want. The First Amendment doesn't exist to protect nice people saying polite things to each other. It exists so that people may say ugly things -- the Westboro Baptist Church's anti-homosexual screeds, the OWS's intimidation of bankers, the Tea Party's vehement anti-Obama stance.

 

I'm not an attorney, but I usually end up having to do one or two pro se cases a year regarding rental collections. I don't care for it, even though I've never lost.

 

As you said, there are much, much better ways to get problems addressed than threatening lawsuits. 

 

 

 
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sak_pase:
Hitchen's Razor:

Both of you keep typing about lawsuits when you already said that is not a possibility. (of which I thanked you) I reiterated the use of newspaper television or other media to get this next level of harassment story that AprilT is the recipient of out there. That internet bullshit of a threat and lie in itself is news worthy. That is what I thought I wrote. What is it that you two are getting worked up about? Being worked up ought to be about how idiot lds exfriend accuses a good woman with ultra false accusations. So it isn't a practical and lawyer profitable case. It is a moral disgrace and it is newsworthy..."In My Opinion!".

 

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FreeLive:
sak_pase:
Hitchen's Razor:

Both of you keep typing about lawsuits when you already said that is not a possibility. (of which I thanked you) I reiterated the use of newspaper television or other media to get this next level of harassment story that AprilT is the recipient of out there. That internet bullshit of a threat and lie in itself is news worthy. That is what I thought I wrote. What is it that you two are getting worked up about? Being worked up ought to be about how idiot lds exfriend accuses a good woman with ultra false accusations. So it isn't a practical and lawyer profitable case. It is a moral disgrace and it is newsworthy..."In My Opinion!".

 

 

 In my case I was responding to your post, where you seemed to imply that a failure to trounce on an opportunity to focus public discussion on a private email equated to rolling over. Again, I'm an advocate of making a strong response to idiots out there who disparage you.  However, I think in this case it's a battle best fought privately (and if AprilT wants, repeated to the crowd here, who would probably enjoy seeing the back and forth with an irrational TBM, or share it anonymously on Quora as a cautionary tale about TBM obsession with ex-mormons).

 

I think your suggestion of calling the press is not the greatest use of anyone's time. It is not really newsworthy.  To call the press about it would end up looking petty in comparison to the crime of painting graffiti that could be considered hate speech in some jurisdictions (though I agree with the consensus opinion that the person adding the graffiti is likely someone who was part of the church and wronged in some way, rather than an outsider, which can play into whether the crime would be prosecuted as a hate crime). 

 

Then again, I could have been reading too much into your original response. At some point someone asked what an attorney would think.  I'm an attorney, so I responded with what most rational attorneys would say. My follow on response included what most rational people would add if their friend said....I'm so mad about that private email, I think ill call the newspaper and see if they'll write a story about this person trying to blame me privately for creating an environment that they think led someone to think committing this crime was ok. Most friends would say, "you'll end up being the one who looks crazy for bringing that up to the press."

 

Stepping away from the mike on this one now. 

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“Nell,” the Constable continued, indicating through his tone of voice that the lesson was concluding, “the difference between ignorant and educated people is that the latter know more facts. But that has nothing to do with whether they are stupid or intelligent. The difference between stupid and intelligent people—and this is true whether or not they are well-educated—is that intelligent people can handle subtlety. They are not baffled by ambiguous or even contradictory situations—in fact, they expect them and are apt to become suspicious when things seem overly straightforward.”

From “The Diamond Age” - Neal Stevenson

 
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Methinks that anyone who would take the effort to do this has a much deeper affectation toward TSCC than the ex-mormons here and other places online would have.  This has become personal ["you will pay for what you have done"] for them and the retaliation and condemnation and threats to the "eternal life" of members, i.e., "burn mormans" [sic] does bring this into the realm of a hate crime.  Someone, likely even a never-mo, has a problem with the mo'org and was willing to display their hostility openly... Even under the cover of darkness.  

 

But this did take a concerted effort... Buying/stealing a can [or cans] of paint, waiting until they knew the building would be unoccupied, taking the time to spray more than one wall and that L-O-N-G phrase all the while running the risk of getting caught, all these aspects, taken together, compile an anger... No, a HATRED of the COJCOLDS.  I'm willing to bank on some post-pubescent male whose girlfriend dumped him because he isn't a member!

 

Meanwhile, AprilT... Send your "friend" to MY FaceBook page... S/He will get their fill of marriage equality, pro-choice and anti-religion that their hair'll catch fire and they'll run off into the hills.

 

"Problem" solved.   

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“Nearly 7 billion people on the planet, hurting one person’s feelings really isn’t a big deal. You’ll find other friends. Better ones that won’t try to force feed you pig shit.” — General Smith

 

 
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So I have been away from the interwebz for a few days (which can actually be a relief sometimes), so I just now caught up on this thread today.  Thanks again for being such a soft place to land, and a great place for discussion!  I love that we can have discussions and be respectful at the same time.  That's something that I'm not seeing much anymore.  

 

Anyways, a quick update on my "friend".  She emailed me again this morning.  She said that she had wondered why I hadn't responded so she re-read what she had sent to me.  She (with lots of little frowny faces) said she realized what she had said, and fully understood why I had not responded, then procedded to apologize profusely and try to assure me that she in no way menat that I was responsible for the damage to the buildings.  That she was just concerned about my dissaffection and wanted to point out what "anti's" were doing.  I have not responded yet, but being the person I am, I'll probably just let it go and slowly walk myself out of her life, which won't be hard since most of my mormon friends refuse to speak with me anymore.  At least she recoganized that what she said to me was very inappropriate.  

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Sometimes just "letting it go" is the best. Congratz.
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I’ve begun worshiping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It’s there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There’s no mystery, no one asks for money, I don’t have to dress up, and there’s no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to God are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate.” George Carlin

 
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I don't condone vandalizing someone's property mind that was done to the Nauvoo Expositor. What's worse than this is vandalizing people's lives with false promises. Breaking up families. Causing some to take their own lives because they don't fit the mold. Telling them they wont go to heaven if they don't obey every word. That others are 'unrighteous' who don't follow their way. That they must be like robots and dress alike. What is worse than the graffiti is not telling the truth and leading people to waste their entire lives. To think and speak for yourself is rebellion. Like in the matrix movie some would rather be part of the illusion. Ignorance is bliss as it is said.
 
       
 


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