Native American DNA
[Post-Mormon Mag.]
Knoxville Dinner Social
[East Tennessee Po...]
FACEBOOK INFO
[Sanpete County Po...]
October '14 Meetup
[Denver Post-Mormo...]
September '14 Meetup
[Denver Post-Mormo...]
Annual ExMormon Sacramento Party
[San Francisco Bay...]
FACEBOOK INFO
Crissy
FACEBOOK INFO
Barn
October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
Starfleet
October 5th PostMormon Lecture Series 2014
alvie
Why I am a Better Mother
by aworkinprogress
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
exmoinaz
SF Bay Area Monthly Gathering SUNDAY (5/4)
owned
The Mormon Mask
by Born Free
Las Vegas Meetup--Jazz in the Park Saturday May 10 6:30PM
onendagus
Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage
Resignation Letter to My Family
ShadowSage
Guru Busters
by Flora4
Guru Busters
by Flora4
Resignation Letter to My Family
Hbush1987
General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
Swearing Elder
Sunday Morning Hangout at Container Park March 30th
onendagus
Second Wednesdays
Houston
General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
Swearing Elder
General Non-Conference: Palmetto State Session
dovahkiyn
February Meetup Sunday the 16th 2:00pm Grand Cafe at Sunset Station
onendagus
Visitors welcome !
priorvej12
Las Vegas meetup Sun Jan 12th 1pm at Milos in Boulder City
onendagus
January 5th- Southern Utah PostMormon Lecture Series
gypsyrose
Book of Mormon Tories
by Tom Donofrio
Book of Mormon Tories
by Nogginus Skepticalus
  It gets better! Resources to help with coping
  House Rules for posting on this website
  Why is there sometimes anger here?
  Glossary of Post-Mormon Terms
  Frequently Asked Questions
 
   
 
Missing Verses In The Lords Prayer - 3rd Nephi 13
 
Member
RankRankRank
Joined  2011-05-03

In my continued study of 3rd Nephi, I' trying to see from a Nephite perspective, if there would be anything in these verses that I would not understand. I also wanted to test the time frame for the verses. So here goes ...

3rd Nephi written AD 34
Matthew 6 written somewhere between AD 50 - 70
So 3rd Nephi would be the first account from a historical point.

In researching this chapter, I found a large majority of this chapter was written word for word with Matthew 6 and that anytime the word "which" appeared in the Bible text, it was changed to "who", which doesn't' correspond with  the 1830 version of the Book of Mormon that has the word " which" in i
t's text.

ALMS

Verse 1 & 2 the word."Alms." does not show up in the Old Testament or in the BofM before this chapter. How would the Nephites know what alms meant? I wonder why Nephi or Mormon did not write "offering" or  "to help the poor" instead of using a word like Alms that was clearly not in there vocabulary.

MISSING VERSES IN THE LORDS PRAYER:

This one really caught my attention. Why would Nephi/Mormon leave out verse's in the Lord's Prayer. Here's how it reads in 3rd Nephi 13:9-13

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
11 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
12 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
13 For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.

It's the same in the 1830 version as today's version of BoM. It's missing 2 verses ...

And here is Mathew 6:9-13
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

And Luke 11:2-4
2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

"Thy kingdom come" and "Give us this day our daily bread" are missing in the Book of Mormon. The question is ... " Why"?

PUNCTUATION 

Verse 23 has the same exclamation point in the current as well as the 1830 edition after the word darkness! Would punctuation during translation be that precise?

SYNAGOGUE
Synagogue's originated from around the Babylonian captivity, when the Temple was destroyed and that the system of synagogue worship was for the exiles to gather for the reading of the law and the prophets. To date there has been no evidence of a pre-columbiam synagogue in the new world. Yet there is a reference to it in this chapter ... 3rd Nephi 13:2

2 Therefore, when ye shall do your alms do not sound a trumpet before you, as will hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward.

There is only 1 mention of "Synagogue" in the Old Testament and it's in Psalms 74:8 which may be a revision for ,"Hebrew meeting place"
The Book Of Mormon has 25 references the earliest at between 559 to 545 B.C.

The Wadi Qelt Synagoguee located in Wadi Qelt west of Jericho, is the oldest synagogue that has been found to date. It dates from between 70 and 50 BCE, and was built as part of a Hasmonean royal winter palace complex in the warm desert oasis of Jericho.

Despite the excavator's identification of a building among the Hasmonean palatial complex near Wadi Qelt as a synagogue, the matter is far from conclusive. In fact, few scholars seriously consider this suggestion in discussions of Second Temple period synagogues, though even fewer have openly challenged the identification in print.

MAMMON

Verse 24 the word Mammon
Definition "riches or material wealth"
Scriptures N.T 4 /Book of Mormon 1 /D&C 1
So we can see that the word mammon does not show up in the Old Testament and only shows up 1 time in the Book of Mormon. So I don't think he Nephites new what Mammon meant. 

MAMMON is a biblical term, Aramaic in origin, that refers to all material wealth or corporeal substance. Its reference is to one's possessions, one's property and equity, and, most importantly, one's spiritual attitude toward all things owned. An important measure of any individual is the way in which that person views the material world around him. The array of personal possessions which enhance and crowd our lives is boundless. People define themselves by what they own and consider wealth and valuable possessions to be a blessing. Success is also often defined in material terms. In contrast, the teaching of the Christ were dedicated to freeing mankind from the slavish pursuits of material mammon.

The word is assumed to  derive from Late Latin and Greek and was an Aramaic loan word in Hebrew.
Origin: 1350–1400; Middle English  < Late Latin  < Greek mam ( m ) ōnâs < Aramaic māmōnā  riches

FINAL QUESTIONS:
As a believer, I'm not questioning the message of the Savior, I'm questioning the History of this document. Can this really be the first recorded record before Matthew was written? I find the structure of verses so identical between Matthew 6 and 3rd Nephi 13, even within punctuation, that for me sends up a caution of authenticity. If in the process of translation, Joseph was looking for something that would be close to the Bible record, which I guess we call  Functional Translation, why don't we have some words in the text that might be more in line with Nephite history such as "Senine" for the value of currency in another chapter and not using Farthing?

I wish that there would have been some embellishment in the message that would have brought more light and understanding to the doctrine instead of a identical message. I was taught that we believe in the Bible as long as it has been translated correctly, well wouldn't thus assure us that it was?




 
       
 


Our next project
will be announced soon.

Tax exempt status.
Bold Wish
DrW
Muffin Top
Tapir Whisperer

Logged in: 4
Not logged in: 74
Logged in anonymous: 0
(Joined in last 24 hours)
 

Total members: 9736
A friendly suggestion for Tom Monson
by Strong Free & Thankful
Recent Member
by shadow_angst
OT: Know Anyone With MS?
by Strong Free & Thankful
Great Article About Cult Life
by ElectricLiahona
The Ever-changin' Gospel...
by Celestial Wedgie
Gender Equality
by Celestial Wedgie