Just wanted to say Hi!

[mutleydog]

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to say Hi and introduce myself....

I joined the church when I was 18 and left 10 years later, I am now 30....it was perhaps the biggest personal struggle I had to face. I thought leaving would be easy, due to the fact I had doubts about many aspects of the church. It certainly wasn't - I found it hard to believe that it had such a control over not only my life, but also my thought processes.

My turning point was fighting the struggle of who I was with what the church taught. I knew I needed to be true to myself and claw back some of the integrity I had lost battling with my 'problem'. I battled in vain trying to change something that I fundamentally could not. I remember my last meeting with the bishop - he was shocked at my resolve to leave, but I gave him my options.....

- Stay, live 'faithfully', get married and lie to myself, the church and my prospective marriage partner and kids

- Stay, live 'faithfully', be single and never ever have the hope of loving someone and being loved and therefore I will be lying to myself

-Stay, pretend to be 'faithful' and live a double life, with which again I would be lying

-Leave and be true to myself, regain my integrity and have hope in finding a loving relationship.

I asked what one he would choose.....he was lost for words. I chose the last the option and have never been happier, living the life I have always dreamed of and finding someone whom I love and loves me for who I am.
I battled for sometime thinking I could try and change members views on same-sex attraction, but new after a covert YSA activity that it was an impossible task. Since my dramatic exit, a few LDS friends have be told the truth of my leaving and all have supported me one way or another. Over that period though, a lot other issues about the church resurfaced and though my sexuality was a fundamental factor in my leaving, many other issues strengthened my resolve to be free.

I am not sure where the scripture passage "the truth shall set you free" comes from, but it certainly has in my case!

I am happy I have found this community.

[Born Free]

[QUOTE= my resolve to be free.

I am not sure where the scripture passage "the truth shall set you free" comes from, but it certainly has in my case!

I am happy I have found this community.[/QUOTE]

Mutleydog,

Over the years I considered as a straight guy, I had a lot of empathy for closseted gay men, struggling with whether to come out, because of my Church experience.

From my perspective (limited I know), I figured there were a lot of similarities to the wacko messages sent both groups:

If you just try harder/fast/pray/read the scriptures, you will get the ability to be able to make it work - a testimony in my case & be magically converted to being straight, for gays or lesbians.

In my case I tried, and tried to make it work, feeling that if others could (well appeared to anyway) then I could if I just tried harder.

As I observe the horrific pain that some gay men experience, I feel great empathy. Some try to make heterosexuality 'work', but then when midlife arrives and their spirituality demands that their integrity be dialled up a notch or two, they feel they have no choice but to come out, and of course by then there is often a family and a womans heart involved.

Whilst I have not been unaware of the particular struggle of gays in the Church, I had never seen before the way those two monumentous struggles must combine.

You have my greatest respect and admiration for your courage and wisdom in seeing clearly the implications of each option as you saw it, and having made the choice you did.

A hearty welcome! Your sanity awaits (no longer)!

Daryl

[Jeff_Ricks]

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to say Hi and introduce myself....

I joined the church when I was 18 and left 10 years later, I am now 30....it was perhaps the biggest personal struggle I had to face. I thought leaving would be easy, due to the fact I had doubts about many aspects of the church. It certainly wasn't - I found it hard to believe that it had such a control over not only my life, but also my thought processes.

My turning point was fighting the struggle of who I was with what the church taught. I knew I needed to be true to myself and claw back some of the integrity I had lost battling with my 'problem'. I battled in vain trying to change something that I fundamentally could not. I remember my last meeting with the bishop - he was shocked at my resolve to leave, but I gave him my options.....

- Stay, live 'faithfully', get married and lie to myself, the church and my prospective marriage partner and kids

- Stay, live 'faithfully', be single and never ever have the hope of loving someone and being loved and therefore I will be lying to myself

-Stay, pretend to be 'faithful' and live a double life, with which again I would be lying

-Leave and be true to myself, regain my integrity and have hope in finding a loving relationship.

I asked what one he would choose.....he was lost for words. I chose the last the option and have never been happier, living the life I have always dreamed of and finding someone whom I love and loves me for who I am.
I battled for sometime thinking I could try and change members views on same-sex attraction, but new after a covert YSA activity that it was an impossible task. Since my dramatic exit, a few LDS friends have be told the truth of my leaving and all have supported me one way or another. Over that period though, a lot other issues about the church resurfaced and though my sexuality was a fundamental factor in my leaving, many other issues strengthened my resolve to be free.

I am not sure where the scripture passage "the truth shall set you free" comes from, but it certainly has in my case!

I am happy I have found this community.


Welcome to the community! Glad you are feeling so free and happy now. That's the real purpose of life. None of this Plan of Salvation crap. The purpose of life is to experience it and enjoy it, not endure it to the end. IMHO.

Welcome!

Jeff

[mutleydog]

Daryl,

Thank you so much for your post. I feel at home here already. Coming from Scotland, its very difficult to find post-mormons, considering there isn't that many members in the first instance.

Whilst I have not been unaware of the particular struggle of gays in the Church, I had never seen before the way those two monumentous struggles must combine.

I am not sure anyone who hasn't been in the position could really understand the underlying struggles. Its bad enough coming to terms with general reactions (though admittedly many people do not view being gay as anything but normal), let alone knowing one thing and trying to believe another. I used to struggle with the guilt everyday, not to mention the self-hatred I had for myself.....the list of negative emotions goes on.


You have my greatest respect and admiration for your courage and wisdom in seeing clearly the implications of each option as you saw it, and having made the choice you did.

A hearty welcome! Your sanity awaits (no longer)!

Thank you. I admire and have respect for anyone and everyone who has had the courage to leave the mormon church. It does take courage and it also takes determination - for some its a far from easy road, but it is worth it! (Mmmmm....where have I heard that one before!). The hardest thing for me was the fact that I just left and told no-one (except for the bishop) - I could have been ill or in trouble - but no-one called to see how I was - it truly brought home to me that my so-called friends just weren't who I thought they were. That hit me very hard. Since then, I have made contact with a couple of friends (USA ones) and they have been very supportive - one is even getting married back here in Scotland as asked me and my partner to the civil wedding. I would like to attend to see my friend, but am fully aware of the truama and questions I will put myself through if I do, so I will not.

Thanks again.

[mutleydog]

Welcome to the community! Glad you are feeling so free and happy now. That's the real purpose of life. None of this Plan of Salvation crap. The purpose of life is to experience it and enjoy it, not endure it to the end. IMHO.

Welcome!

Jeff


Thanks so much Jeff! I definitely agree with you.... ;)

[peter_mary]

My turning point was fighting the struggle of who I was with what the church taught. I knew I needed to be true to myself and claw back some of the integrity I had lost battling with my 'problem'. I battled in vain trying to change something that I fundamentally could not. I remember my last meeting with the bishop - he was shocked at my resolve to leave, but I gave him my options.....



Thanks for sharing your story! While there can be no doubt that it's especially tough for a gay man struggling with the social ramifications of his sexuality AND the condemnation of the Church, ultimately I think many of us left the Church for the same reason...our personal integrity. For me, I left because I demanded the right to express myself openly and honestly. I demanded the right to make my own choices, to think my own thoughts, to pursue my own dreams--and the Church just wasn't going to let me do that. My integrity and insistence that I be allowed to be who I am drove me right out the door! :cool:

Interestingly, we talked at our house often about the similarities between "coming out of the Church" and "coming out of the closet." In many ways, the pain is the same, it's just that when coming out of the Church, you have a much smaller community whose disapproval you have to face. As I begin to feel the double edged sword of both freedom and isolation that is associated with coming out of the Church, I can at least empathize, as can SO many of us, with what it must have been like for you, coming out of BOTH closets, so to speak.

Welcome, and I hope you find this board to be a supportive new home for you!

Paul

[mutleydog]

Thanks for sharing your story! While there can be no doubt that it's especially tough for a gay man struggling with the social ramifications of his sexuality AND the condemnation of the Church, ultimately I think many of us left the Church for the same reason...our personal integrity. For me, I left because I demanded the right to express myself openly and honestly. I demanded the right to make my own choices, to think my own thoughts, to pursue my own dreams--and the Church just wasn't going to let me do that. My integrity and insistence that I be allowed to be who I am drove me right out the door! :cool:

Interestingly, we talked at our house often about the similarities between "coming out of the Church" and "coming out of the closet." In many ways, the pain is the same, it's just that when coming out of the Church, you have a much smaller community whose disapproval you have to face. As I begin to feel the double edged sword of both freedom and isolation that is associated with coming out of the Church, I can at least empathize, as can SO many of us, with what it must have been like for you, coming out of BOTH closets, so to speak.

Welcome, and I hope you find this board to be a supportive new home for you!

Paul

Thanks Paul. I am sure I will find much support here. I totally echo your thoughts though about coming out of both closets!! I would also have to agree with the 'personal integrity' bit beyond the sexuality issue. I found it increasingly hard (as a woman - just in case anyone thought otherwise - should have made it slightly clearer) to express my opinions and thoughts and feel fully comfortable with pursuing my own dreams too. This not meant to sound big headed, but I am intelligent (a degree, a masters and a PhD in marine engineering/environmental subjects) and relatively attractive etc. etc. As my career took hold, I found much disapproval in my wanting to reach my academic and professional potential - of course i should have been married by 25 at least! I just can't understand these women (I am by no means feminist) that go to college, university and have promising careers to give it all up for an early marriage and having kids young! There are so many LDS women out there with loads of brains and talent that just waste their full potential!! Arghhhhh! :eek: I am not saying, don't be mothers and wives etc., but can't they see it is possible to have it all and go beyond your potential as just a 'woman in the home'! That it is possible to have a successful career, happy wee ones and loving home all at the same time. For me its a matter of balance!! Rant Over!

[silverfox]

What's this? You all started a party without ME????? :eek:

I've been swamped with work and now I have to play catch up. sigh

Welcome, mutleydog (I have to giggle at this name...it's just sooooooo......CUTE)

My hubby's old mission companion and close friend for many years recently left his straight marriage at age 39 to start enjoying life. He has been open with his struggles to be "straight". We've watched him over the years struggle. It's been heartbreaking to watch him fight the turmoil...trying to be something he isn't. Although it's difficult for them, his wife and kids are supportive. He is lucky.

Sadly, he felt he could get his bishop and other leaders to understand. He wanted to remain active in the church. But when things didn't go as planned he attempted suicide. He survived. I think he is finally realizing he needs to let go. He has met someone and is starting to rebuild his life and he is very happy right now. It was painful for him to leave his family. He LOVES his family and his wife. But it was just too difficult staying in a mold where he doesn't fit.

It angers me how many members have become depressed enough (for many different reasons) to try to commit suicide.

I admire your courage and thanks for sharing your story. I know you are not alone. :)

The following link may be informative for anyone reading who may need support, "Links to Gay Friendly Sites":

http://home.att.net/~david.cornwell/Links.htm

There was a site called "Affirmative.org" that was up and running a couple weeks ago but now looks like it is defunct. It was dedicated to Gay and Lesbian Mormons. I thought it was an excellent resource for support for all gay members. I am sad that it's not there anymore. I will research and see if it has moved or why it was taken down. sigh

[mutleydog]

What's this? You all started a party without ME????? :eek:

I've been swamped with work and now I have to play catch up. sigh

Welcome, mutleydog (I have to giggle at this name...it's just sooooooo......CUTE)

My hubby's old mission companion and close friend for many years recently left his straight marriage at age 39 to start enjoying life. He has been open with his struggles to be "straight". We've watched him over the years struggle. It's been heartbreaking to watch him fight the turmoil...trying to be something he isn't. Although it's difficult for them, his wife and kids are supportive. He is lucky.

Sadly, he felt he could get his bishop and other leaders to understand. He wanted to remain active in the church. But when things didn't go as planned he attempted suicide. He survived. I think he is finally realizing he needs to let go. He has met someone and is starting to rebuild his life and he is very happy right now. It was painful for him to leave his family. He LOVES his family and his wife. But it was just too difficult staying in a mold where he doesn't fit.

It angers me how many members have become depressed enough (for many different reasons) to try to commit suicide.

I admire your courage and thanks for sharing your story. I know you are not alone. :)

The following link may be informative for anyone reading who may need support, "Links to Gay Friendly Sites":

http://home.att.net/~david.cornwell/Links.htm

There was a site called "Affirmative.org" that was up and running a couple weeks ago but now looks like it is defunct. It was dedicated to Gay and Lesbian Mormons. I thought it was an excellent resource for support for all gay members. I am sad that it's not there anymore. I will research and see if it has moved or why it was taken down. sigh

Hello Silverfox,

Thanks for your response. When I was in church I felt like I was the only person with those difficulties.....after searching around, I found that there were so many LDS people battling the same issue.....soon I realised I didn't need to battle any longer. i got in touch with affirmation, which was a great source of help. I am happy to hear your hubby's old mission companion has got through it. Unfortunately, there are so many that feel the need they get carry on and feel the only way out was depart the mortal coil. I was practically driven to a nervous breakdown, but I had supportive non-lds friends that got me through it and left before I got to that point, but admittedly I was on a knifes edge. I find it hard to believe I was ever like that - my life has totally changed and I am happier than ever, though sometimes 'what if' questions spring into my mind.....but they are getting less......

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOO HOO - What a Ride!" :)

Thanks for the other link. Will look at that. Mmmmm....best get on with some more work!! Only an hour to go for me in Scotland!! :)

[silverfox]

Hello Silverfox,

Thanks for your response. When I was in church I felt like I was the only person with those difficulties.....after searching around, I found that there were so many LDS people battling the same issue.....soon I realised I didn't need to battle any longer. i got in touch with affirmation, which was a great source of help.

Do you happen to still have that link? Is it really offline now? I would like to see some links like that posted for any lurkers or members of the board who may benefit from it. I can't stand the thought that there are members going through this alone.

I remember how elated I was to find message boards for apostates! What a RELIEF! I wasn't alone and there was support and people who knew exactly what I was feeling and going through! I think had I not found the support I'd still be hanging onto my membership out of guilt if nothing else.

[Born Free]

[QUOTE
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOO HOO - What a Ride!" :)
:)[/QUOTE]

I laughed so hard, I could have split my sides.

Daryl

[mutleydog]

[QUOTE
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOO HOO - What a Ride!" :)
:)

I laughed so hard, I could have split my sides.

Daryl[/QUOTE]

I am glad you liked....I only heard it today...not even sure where! Very appropriate I thought!! Loved it myself and will heed every word!! LOL!! :D

[free thinker]

Welcome to the site. I cant even begin to imagine the pain you have experienced, so I will not even try. Just want you to know that this is a place to hang out, put your feet on the table, and have a bag of chips!

I am not gay, but I went for 15 years, as an active healthy man, without sex!!!. I was just trying to do what I thought was right. From 30 to 45 with no MOGAMBO!!! Damn near crushed me!! Then I found out Joseph Smith was a sexual libertine!! :mad:

Never again! No way in hell ever again!! :mad:

Glad to make your aquaintance!

Free Thinker