Inappropriate Dress

[Fredl]

Saw my wife off to visit her friend Jane around Noon today and Boy!, she looked Good! She was dressed in the kind of glittery off-the-shoulders blouse that Filipinas seem to be prone to and a skirt and shoes that complimented it. Made me feel pretty good about at least one choice I made in a largely mis-spent life!

Well, tonight at dinner she mentioned she had run into "Sister" (hers, not mine) Black at the library and she'd been obviously very disapproving of how my wife was dressed. Now, Sister Black must go close to 300 lbs. and finds a lot to disaprove of generally. I really don't like her, though I don't advertise it.

I couldn't have been more tickled! I made a comment to the effect that I thought she looked great and I could not possibly care what Sister Black thought. She then did an imitation of how Sister Black had looked at her and spoken. To which I replied, "Well, f*** Sister Black". It actually made my wife laugh!

It's really pretty early in the process of me leaving the church but I'm feeling increasingly optimistic that everyone in our family will also. I'm fortunate, I guess in the degree of respect my kids seem to have for me and the level of estrangement my wife seems to increasingly have. Time will tell, I guess.

Fred

[hamar]

Doesn't that just piss you off big time when some sanctimonious asshole has the audacity to look down upon you through "looks and the spoken word"? Not mention body language. Does your DW know how to give the one finger salute?

On a slightly off subject note, my DW got a nice card from a member of our (former) branch who said how much DW had helped her through some pretty tuff stuff last year ( an alcoholic son who tried to hang himself in her home and more).

DW called her to thank her for the card and this "sister" said that she had been told that we had gone inactive. :Crazy: We submitted our resignation letter in July. I'm in DC at the moment on business and live in NC and I really think I heard DW yelling about the liars in the branch all the way up hear. :p

Anyway DW proceeded to give "sister" a dose of moism reality regarding gawd's temple. "sister" said "I was always uncomfortable with that".

I think we may have just opened a can of worms, stay tuned.

[lunaverse]

I've been thinking of drop-shipping copies of "Women in Authority: Re-emerging Mormon Feminism" to my sister and SIL. Apparently BYU bookstore carries it, which should give them permission enough to read it.

While it is pro-Mormon, it's controversial enough to get some of the essay authors exed. It reveals the real history of women in the Church, how they used to hold the priesthood, how they were politically active feminists who fought for sufferage, who told women to go ahead and work AND have families, or skip the family if that's your inclination.

I think it should shake up a few things in their minds. I just have to be brave enough to do it. :)

Luna

[dogzilla]

Many years ago I worked an a car manufacturing plant as a technical writer. They made German cars there, so the factory was comprised of about 2,000 German nationals, about 500 local yokels -- mostly men -- and me. I had moved to the ass end of South Carolina from Ft. Lauderdale and was still seriously suffering from Culture Shock. (SC=Proof that hell is full and the dead really are walking the earth!)

One day I show up at work wearing some trendy fashion statement that was all the rage in Ft. Lauderdale but had not yet made it to the backwoods of Nowhere, SC. The guys I worked with proceeded to rib me about it. I let them have a go at me for a few minutes and then, when they paused to get my reaction, I just said...

"You know, the last time somebody made fun of my clothes, I was in 7th grade. Don't you guys have some work to do?"

:cool:


I'd suggest that any adult who has something to say about what another adult is wearing... has way more serious issues than fashion crimes.

[Fredl]

"Sanctimonious Asshole", huh! That really has a nice ring to it.

I've gotta add that to my active vocabulary.

Fred

[peter_mary]

"You know, the last time somebody made fun of my clothes, I was in 7th grade. Don't you guys have some work to do?"

:cool:

Heh...I would have loved to have seen the bubbas at that point!

And Luna, I agree that it is fascinating how radically the Church has shifted it's view on women in authority. I think it was Todd Compton's "In Sacred Loneliness" that alerted me to the full degree of spiritual participation of the "leading ladies" of Mormonism--the healings by laying on of hands, the speaking in tongues, even administering to high ranking men. And then at some point, I assume the boys realized that if the women got too upity :p , they'd just move the boys right out and take over, which is clearly unacceptable if you've founded your organization on the principles of the "He-man Women Hater's Club." :duh

Peter_Mary

[dogzilla]

Heh...I would have loved to have seen the bubbas at that point!
Peter_Mary

They were pretty much speechless and had that sheepish, busted-by-a-chick look. Actually cutting off their genitals and handing them over would not have been as effective.

Heh. :p

[why me]

Doesn't that just piss you off big time when some sanctimonious asshole has the audacity to look down upon you through "looks and the spoken word"? Not mention body language. Does your DW know how to give the one finger salute?

On a slightly off subject note, my DW got a nice card from a member of our (former) branch who said how much DW had helped her through some pretty tuff stuff last year ( an alcoholic son who tried to hang himself in her home and more).

DW called her to thank her for the card and this "sister" said that she had been told that we had gone inactive. :Crazy: We submitted our resignation letter in July. I'm in DC at the moment on business and live in NC and I really think I heard DW yelling about the liars in the branch all the way up hear. :p

Anyway DW proceeded to give "sister" a dose of moism reality regarding gawd's temple. "sister" said "I was always uncomfortable with that".

I think we may have just opened a can of worms, stay tuned.
Hamar, I think that this 'sister' was rather well-intentioned in sending your wife a card of thanks. Also it could very well be that many of the ward members do not know of your resignation letter. It could have been an honest mistake.

I don't think that such things are announced from the pulpit. Usually, it is word of mouth but if the mouths are not moving, most people would be clueless. Nothing to get upset about. It just shows that some things are kept private. And what is wrong with that?

In some way I sort of feel sorry for the women who sent the card. Her thanks were returned by hearing the 'truth' about gawd's temple.

It sort of makes me not want to send a thank you card anymore to anyone.

But the 'sister's' act was very thoughtful.

[peter_mary]

This just in:

Dateline: Rexburg, Idaho. Specifically BYU-Idaho

One of my wife's clients, a young BYU-I student, was talking yesterday about the new BYU-I president, Kim Clark. She indicated that students were pretty upbeat about him, and then went on to talk about how intimidating the last guy, President Bednar was (now a recently called member of the Quorum of 12 Apostles).

I thought you'd love this little tidbit that she shared with my wife (and which is relevant to this thread). She said that the Bednars held Family Home Evening every Monday night, and students could sign up to take a turn to have FHE with the President and his wife. When they were all seated, "Sister" Bednar would take a hand mirror, and go around the room to each girl and have her lean way over, so she could see her...ahem..."bosom" in the mirror. If they COULD in fact see down their shirts, they got a gentle reprimand for being inappropriately dressed.

I'm not sure if this was routine, or if it happened to be the subject of the FHE lesson the night this young woman was in attendance, but regardless...it was HIGHLY inappropriate and utter nonsense. The girls (not the boys) were mortified, and left utterly embarassed in front of their peers (even though I'm certain they all felt they were dressed very nicely...they just didn't know that bending WAYYYYYY over was included in the dress standard). :rolleyes: I can't help but wonder if President Bednar went around and held a hand mirror up to all the boys'...ahem..."packages" to see if they were appropriately tucked away or showing uneccesary bulging. :eek:

Makes me SO sad my children don't attend that particular institution.

Peter_Mary

[dogzilla]

Who else read that as "President Bendar" as in Bend-too-far?

:D

[silverfox]

Hamar, I think that this 'sister' was rather well-intentioned in sending your wife a card of thanks. Also it could very well be that many of the ward members do not know of your resignation letter. It could have been an honest mistake.

I don't think that such things are announced from the pulpit. Usually, it is word of mouth but if the mouths are not moving, most people would be clueless. Nothing to get upset about. It just shows that some things are kept private. And what is wrong with that?

In some way I sort of feel sorry for the women who sent the card. Her thanks were returned by hearing the 'truth' about gawd's temple.

It sort of makes me not want to send a thank you card anymore to anyone.

But the 'sister's' act was very thoughtful.

Actually from what I understand a resignation IS announced in sacrament meeting. I remember having to include in my letter to not announce it, to respect my privacy in the matter.

[helemon]

I can't help but wonder if President Bednar went around and held a hand mirror up to all the boys'...ahem..."packages" to see if they were appropriately tucked away or showing uneccesary bulging. :eek:


I can't help but wonder if President Bednar's "package" was showing unnecessary bulging after that little excercise. :duh Something like that should not have been conducted in FHE in mixed company. Such a test could have been suggested as a way to test the modesty of a woman's blouse in the privacy of her own home, but not in public. However, I must confess that a glimpse of my wife's cleavage on one particular occasion did help to convince me that she was the one! ;)

[why me]

This just in:

Dateline: Rexburg, Idaho. Specifically BYU-Idaho

One of my wife's clients, a young BYU-I student, was talking yesterday about the new BYU-I president, Kim Clark. She indicated that students were pretty upbeat about him, and then went on to talk about how intimidating the last guy, President Bednar was (now a recently called member of the Quorum of 12 Apostles).

I thought you'd love this little tidbit that she shared with my wife (and which is relevant to this thread). She said that the Bednars held Family Home Evening every Monday night, and students could sign up to take a turn to have FHE with the President and his wife. When they were all seated, "Sister" Bednar would take a hand mirror, and go around the room to each girl and have her lean way over, so she could see her...ahem..."bosom" in the mirror. If they COULD in fact see down their shirts, they got a gentle reprimand for being inappropriately dressed.

I'm not sure if this was routine, or if it happened to be the subject of the FHE lesson the night this young woman was in attendance, but regardless...it was HIGHLY inappropriate and utter nonsense. The girls (not the boys) were mortified, and left utterly embarassed in front of their peers (even though I'm certain they all felt they were dressed very nicely...they just didn't know that bending WAYYYYYY over was included in the dress standard). :rolleyes: I can't help but wonder if President Bednar went around and held a hand mirror up to all the boys'...ahem..."packages" to see if they were appropriately tucked away or showing uneccesary bulging. :eek:

Makes me SO sad my children don't attend that particular institution.

Peter_Mary
I wish I were the mirror! Okay so I am a perv. :rolleyes:

[why me]

Actually from what I understand a resignation IS announced in sacrament meeting. I remember having to include in my letter to not announce it, to respect my privacy in the matter.
I have never heard of that. Perhaps you are right. I just never heard of such a thing and I have never heard of an announcement being made. One more question that I need to find out about. Thanks!

Or maybe this 'sister' missed the announcement...

[Born Free]

<snip>

When they were all seated, "Sister" Bednar would take a hand mirror, and go around the room to each girl and have her lean way over, so she could see her...ahem..."bosom" in the mirror. If they COULD in fact see down their shirts, they got a gentle reprimand for being inappropriately dressed.

<snip>

Makes me SO sad my children don't attend that particular institution.

Peter_Mary

How quaintly Mormon!

The 'gentle reprimand' pales into all insignificance compared with the public shaming, which is so important to teenagers.

It is this sort of act that empowers grossly over-weight frumps to generate their moral superiority. Once again we see the exotic cocktail of shaming and grandiosity that Luna (I think) touched on just recently on another thread.

Thank God (or the Great Pumpkin) that my wife and I raised children whose nose for such behaviour was well developed, and whose prepared to 'cop it', non existent.

Daryl

[Born Free]

How quaintly Mormon! The Bednars are so obviously leadership material with a capital L!

The 'gentle reprimand' pales into all insignificance compared with the public shaming, which is so important to teenagers.

It is this sort of act that empowers grossly over-weight frumps to generate their moral superiority. Once again we see the exotic cocktail of shaming and grandiosity that Luna (I think) touched on just recently on another thread.

Thank God (or the Great Pumpkin) that my wife and I raised children whose nose for such behaviour was well developed, and whose prepared to 'cop it', non existent.

Daryl

PS: As an aside, anyone seen the research finding that if men regularly sighted women's breasts they were less tense and stressed? I joke not!!!

I only watch cleavage for my stress levels! :cool:

[miss taken]

Fred, I remember back when I was in MIA, that myself and a friend happened to wear a sleeveless long dress to, I think it was, a 'green and gold' ball. The ward prissy told both myself and my friend that we were inappropriatedly dressed and going against the Lord and his prophets...etc etc (she kindly gave us these shawls to protect our decency)

They were long dresses for Pete's sake. Mine had this silly ruffle thing over the arms.

Not everyone in the church is like that prissy sister I have to say, but she was about as pharisaic as they come.

Ties in well with Luna's article about the behaviour of cults, or cultic individuals.

I have often wondered why the church seems to be a magnet for people who use it as an axe to chop everyone else up with.

Mary