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robbiefl
13th October 2005, 05:25 PM
I first became interested in Mormonism through my love for American history. I found the entire saga of 19th century Mormonism fascinating and, as Harold Bloom would write years later, I thought that Joseph Smith--despite the unsavory aspects of his character--really was something of a religious genius. His later Nauvoo-era theology fascinated me.
I never took the gold plates story literally. It seems obvious to me that it was a hoax. Also I saw immediately that the traditional Christian theology of "The Book of Mormon" had no firm hold on Joseph Smith's imagination.
I joined the LDS Church and struggled to come to terms with the institutional rejection of historical facts, as well as with the amazing ignorance of the LDS membership regarding their own history and the implications of the more original concepts in mid-19th century Mormon theology. When Harold Bloom, in 1992, began writing about Joseph Smith and Mormonism, I became convinced that he had a much better understanding of and deeper respect for Mormonism than did the LDS Church.
I decided to go inactive in 2002. Over the previous twenty years the LDS Church has slowly but steadily morphed into just another Evangelical Christian denomination. (Evangelicals will heatedly deny this, but it's true nevertheless. Look at current LDS social mores, look at LDS art and inspiration writing. It's sense of life is essentially the same as that of Southern Baptists.)

I knew I was not Christian. I knew I was not LDS. But I knew very well that I was very much a Mormon--though I didn't know what kind.

My philosophy was more or less objectivist in nature. I rejected the supernatural altogether; my world view was naturalistic. Theologically, the label that seemed best to fit me was Deist.

My appreciation for the later Nauvoo-era theology of Joseph Smith came primarily from my conviction that he was re-imagining the entire concept of God, and trying to make it conform to the rationalism of the Enlightenemnt. So my respect for Jospeh Smith came not frommy reverence for him as a prophet with supernatural powers and links to God--not for him as a shinning example of Christian virtue (he most certainly wasn't). My respect came for his ability to think outside the book with regard to religion; for his embrace of pluralism (evidenced by his later polytheistic theology) and for his positive view of human natue and life on earth.

When I tried to explain this to LDS friends, they didn't know what to make of me. In their view I could not possibly be Mormon.

In January of 2004, I came across a new movement: Reform Mormonism. I have since identified myself with it.
Think of it as being to LDS Mormonism what Reform Judaism is to Orthodox Judaism.

It's rational, progressive, respects the individual, views art and ordinances as art (mam-made, not Divinely mandated). They accept Feminists, Gays, Intellectuals.

They have a website at: www.reformmormonism.org. There is also a Yahoo Discussion Group--which can be linked to through the above website.
There is also a Reform Mormon Gospel Doctrine Class blog which I've been writing for over a year--which can also be linked to through the movement's main website.

Born Free
13th October 2005, 05:36 PM
<snip>

I decided to go inactive in 2002. Over the previous twenty years the LDS Church has slowly but steadily morphed into just another Evangelical Christian denomination. (Evangelicals will heatedly deny this, but it's true nevertheless. Look at current LDS social mores, look at LDS art and inspiration writing. It's sense of life is essentially the same as that of Southern Baptists.)

I knew I was not Christian. I knew I was not LDS. But I knew very well that I was very much a Mormon--though I didn't know what kind.

My philosophy was more or less objectivist in nature. I rejected the supernatural altogether; my world view was naturalistic. Theologically, the label that seemed best to fit me was Deist.

<snip>


robbiefl,

Now that IS a first for me! I have never heard of somone taking that particular journey through MoInc, to arrive at the very different point you are at now.

Welcome here. I am a bit purplexed as to why you would even hold onto the notion of Mo at all given the elements that appeal to you (all of which I too find interesting).

Daryl

peter_mary
13th October 2005, 05:44 PM
Yeah, I perused Reformed Mormonism a while ago...interesting site.

I'm a bit like Daryl in that I found the same things interesting about Joseph's theology that you do, enobling in fact, but it lead me in a completely different direction.

's cool. :cool:

We'd love to hear your "take" on this site on issues as they arise, and see/hear them through a different set of lenses. Hope you'll stick around.

Peter_Mary

Fredl
13th October 2005, 06:16 PM
Robbiefl, I'm at a loss for words! Well, at least beyond "Thank You"!

I really never immagined such a thing possible from the Mormon Community. It represents such a departure that I would not have thought it possible. Rather like watching a Water Buffalo give birth to a butterfly.

It may be too late for me; I had pretty well decided to return to Unity and have developed such a deep repugnance for the Mormon Church that it's hard for me to do a turn around and move in the direction of anything related to it. But, I do intend to take a serious look at the material that's been posted at the web site you reference.

Now, can you tell us how seriously this should be taken, not just as a great idea, but as a real, live community with a membership of more than, say, 10 or 12?

This IS uncanny in a way. I've been reading a lot lately and Evolution, which is a subject I have great interest in. I've been thinking about how the Mormon Community might evolve and the idea of a Reform movement along the lines of the community you've referred us to occurred to me. And, the comparison to Reform Judaism had occurred to me.

Yes, quite uncanny!

Fred

lunaverse
13th October 2005, 07:10 PM
My appreciation for the later Nauvoo-era theology of Joseph Smith came primarily from my conviction that he was re-imagining the entire concept of God, and trying to make it conform to the rationalism of the Enlightenemnt. So my respect for Jospeh Smith came not frommy reverence for him as a prophet with supernatural powers and links to God--not for him as a shinning example of Christian virtue (he most certainly wasn't). My respect came for his ability to think outside the book with regard to religion; for his embrace of pluralism (evidenced by his later polytheistic theology) and for his positive view of human natue and life on earth.


Awesome post. I was a "thinker" Mormon too, and loved the rational aspects. For all the doctrinal, intellectual, and emotional contradictions, it does make some interesting extropolations from Christianity. It's why I could never have left to become a mainstream Christian... If Christianity was true, Mormonism was the only thing that made any kind of remote sense.

I have retained a few of these beliefs... if the soul is indeed imortal, and nothing will ever stop us from learning, then yes... we'll go right on to become Gods. There is no other conclusion.

I would absolutely *love* to see an open-ended branch of Mormonism emerge and become successful. I love the fringe intellectual Mormons who write controversial papers about gays, feminism, Church history, and speculation. I have a lot of respect for those people.

I'd love to see what would happen with something more like a Unitarian-style Mormonism, liberal, accepting, speculative, and open.

Unfortunately for me, I don't think I could join such a community, because I've moved too far away... A few years ago I could have, but in my mind now, it is 100% fiction, and I couldn't reconcile my current beliefs and feelings with any brand of Mormonism, even liberal. But I totally think it should happen, I would aplaud it and watch it to see where it went.

Luna