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View Full Version : The Truth About Darkslider: Explained!


darkslider
27th October 2005, 07:55 PM
The following comments come from the apologist known as LeeUniverse.

"As I have investigated the stories of ex-Mormons just like Darkslider, I find that this is a recurring theme; Many of them express deep feelings of being betrayed, violated, or misled by what they believe was misrepresentation of the church from pro-LDS sources, official or otherwise. I recognize that the reasons that they give are often not be the full reasons (or even the real reasons), and I do not agree in any way with their conclusions.

Today, information is available to people in greater quantity than ever before. The church presses forward on its mission and largely ignores critics. They don't hide the information, many issues can be found addressed in Ensigns and LDS bookstores, but they aren't pushing to the Sunday Schools. When information is not told to a member who previously hadn't taken any interest to look up information, now has it at their finger tips 24/7 and half the time, it just pops in your face, which the info will almost inevitably come out... Say if someone taught in church about Joseph Smith, only teach that he was a wise prophet, but never show his mistakes, there can be a problem if members think that he was a perfect prophet when the reality is that he was not. Many or most of us, especially those on the net, will eventually come face to face with certain facts, and can generate a completely unnecessary stumbling-block that can ultimately become a testimony-challenging crisis for some individuals. Really, it's not often about polygamy or the priesthod ban itself that challenges some peoples' testimonies -- it's that the facts are seen as concealed or misrepresented in sources, which creates feelings of being betrayed or deceived when people end up learning the facts from third-party sources, and what they recognize is a conflict with people's statements and the picture they painted growing up in the church. This fosters the false dichotomy that we find anti-Mormon proclaiming -- the church vs. the truth -- and undermines a basic tenet of our faith that the gospel incorporates all truth.

Those who have been raised on traditional "one-sided" church view are indeed much more likely to have their testimonies shaken by anti-mormons, than those who are familiar with the facts and are empowered by the understanding of the role that "all truth" has within context of the gospel.

So what has now happened to him? I believe, Darkslider in felt betrayed by the church, because it was the anti-mormons who had to reveiled certain things to him, then there was his void for kinship, which is quickly regained with the group of like-minded Anti-Mormons. That is why he attends the 'Recovery From Mormonism' boards for. You can see the appeal to very common tactics from RFM, knowingly or unknowingly.

He uses the words "pagan" and "cult" because its RFM tactics to appeal to people (argumentum ad populum), misery (ad misericordiam), pity, or emotions. Using prejudicial language or an emotional ploy to win over people to his side. Attempting to deduce facts from abstractions and principles rather than inducing from facts. Many times he'll appeal to ridicule, and when challanged, becomes even more animated.

I believe I can speak authoritatively for other LDS, on any given day at RFM one may find some (if not many) posts where LDS are referred to by certain pejorative terms (stupid, crazy), or similar terms. And, given that defending the LDS faith is prohibited on that board, and also the fact that many of the posts from LDS (particularly those that are most piercingly logical and persuasively convicting) are capriciously deleted (absent of a single violation of the board rules), then it is not hard to guess who's feeling "threatened." Because now that Dark has changed sides, he has now adopted a surprisingly even more fragile world view, which propositions are false simply because he now wishes it to be false.

I've run out of time... I got to go. Forgive my amature psyco-analysis Darkslider."

Comments? Suggestions?

lunaverse
27th October 2005, 08:20 PM
So..... basically he admits one would feel betrayed at hearing about the Church's real past from a third party... but them promptly launches into a diatribe on how the people on RfM are so bitter and excluding of TBMs? There's a disconnect here... it does not follow.

Then he makes a claim ("...he has now adopted a surprisingly even more fragile world view, which propositions are false simply because he now wishes it to be false...") which he completely fails to back up in any way... i.e. what is this fragile world view, and specifically why are your propositions false?

He knows the Latin names of some informal fallacies, making him *seem* impressive (which is a fallacy on its own but I forget the Latin name)... but I'm not entirely sure he has a good grasp of the fallacies he himself is using to greater extent... His blurb here is so convoluted that I don't even know where to begin to break it apart -- it is, in a word, incoherent.

Luna

P.S. Dark, I'm curious as to what context you used the word "pagan".

helemon
27th October 2005, 08:27 PM
Comments? Suggestions?

I think Lee is correct to a point. I think the church does itself a diservice by ignoring the critics or relying on their FARM attack dogs to handle the critics. I think the church does itself a diservice by covering up the less palatable or more controversial portions of church history. If the church's prophets, seers, and revelators, would do some actual revelating on these topics and be upfront about these issues I think they could to a degree inoculate some members.

However, no amount of post hoc revelatin' is going to erase the numerous problems that the church has to deal with. No amount of upfront honesty will erase the lack of evidence for the BoM. No amount of upfront honesty will erase Joseph's demonstrably fraudlant translation efforts. No amount of upfront honesty will make polyandry more palatable.

Furthermore, the church has purposefully diefied Joseph. If they were to remove the pedestal and the polish, I doubt people would view him as the object of worship and reverence that the church relies on to solidify its claims to divine authority as the only true church.

It will be interesting to see what kind of material the new Church History building will crank out. Based on the description of the Pioneer Trail project, my guess is that it will be cranking out sunbeams and warm fuzzies while leaving the controversial material in the dustbin of history.

darkslider
27th October 2005, 08:31 PM
P.S. Dark, I'm curious as to what context you used the word "pagan".

I agreed with your assessment, but was a little less kind in my reply to Lee.

As for "pagan", it was done in a debate regarding other "cults" and their beliefs.

A nice young LDS girl made the comment that Asatru being "a freaky-ass pagan cult."

When I asked her why she felt that way, she said, "Because they believe that their Gods were once men who learned a lot and experienced a lot and then became a diety."

Which led to my commenting on "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become."

Lee, confused soul that he is, missed the fact that I never used the word pagan.

elder_nomo
27th October 2005, 08:50 PM
Dark - I hope you don't think I'm taking this too lightly, but this guy ought to be on Comedy Central. I like Luna's word - incoherent!
Here's my favorite bit ...


And, given that defending the LDS faith is prohibited on that board, and also the fact that many of the posts from LDS ([B]particularly those that are most piercingly logical and persuasively convicting) are capriciously deleted (absent of a single violation of the board rules), then it is not hard to guess who's feeling "threatened."
ROFLMAO.... where oh where can we find these piercingly logical and persuasively convicting posts???
Perhaps we need to hie to Kolob.


Forgive my amature psyco-analysis Darkslider."

Dark - Did you forgive him for his "amature psyco-analysis?" But more importantly, did you forgive him for his spelling?

darkslider
27th October 2005, 09:11 PM
Dark - Did you forgive him for his "amature psyco-analysis?" But more importantly, did you forgive him for his spelling?

I don't mind at all. In fact, most of my reply was just me laughing at his post.

It is funny you would say that because when I got to that part my reply was. .

"I can forgive your attempt at 'analysis' but your poor grammar and spelling require a blood atonement."

lunaverse
27th October 2005, 09:27 PM
Which led to my commenting on "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become."

Lee, confused soul that he is, missed the fact that I never used the word pagan.

LOL.

My response to him would be a defensive, "And what's so wrong with paganism?!"

:)

Luna

free thinker
27th October 2005, 09:53 PM
Dont think they are not concerned about sites like this and RFM. They are very concerned.

When you realize that, for example, the church has a negative growth rate in Germany, you begin to see the power of places like this.

Liberalization of information is helping move China toward free markets. This is no small thing.

Liberalization of information is going to change the mormon church permanantly.

They have a great deal to be concerned about.

free thinker

peter_mary
27th October 2005, 11:37 PM
Dark-dude,

Man, here I thought you were all, like, informed and smart, but now I know you're just decieved by the comradery you feel with other Anti-Mormons, and like, I've totally lost respect for you, you know? Like totally. You should, like, you know, come back from the dark side where it's less dark, and into the light with Lee and stuff. Totally.

It's always so nice to know that others can read your mind. I guess that's what Mormons mean by a "discerning spirit." Maybe if we paid our tithing, we could be as discerning, 'cause I'm just sure Lee is hitting this dark nail on the head...right dude?

:rolleyes:

Whatever...

Peter_Mary

hamar
29th October 2005, 11:39 AM
Damn! and I think my thirty day waiting period has already passed. Now I'll have to be baptized all over again. Wish I'd read ole Lee's words of wisdom sooner. WTF?