Bishops interview

[hitchiker]

I had my first interview with Bishop for a year today , he started off asking me if i was a good father , ihad to think about that later i asked my girls and they seemed to think i was , then came other questions , why was i not going to the temple ect , i exsplained that i had not been wearing g,s for some time , when asked why i said they cause me to feel depressed and anxious , why is that , i don,t know i said , but it just does not feel right , then i exsplained my belief that idid not believe the book of mormon to be a historical document , but i did believe it to be a prophetical work , but was written by JS himself ,i also pointed out some of the anorcorisms with the 19 century such as lehis dream , i asked if i was going to be disfellowshiped because of my point of view , he said not while he was bishop , but i said , yes and when your released what then , hr said , don,t worry i will be here a while yet so in the end the interview was amicable , i exspressed my desire to remain a member even tho i have an alternate view , but would remain non participating until i saw a more honest presentation of JS work , i also comentated that i thought the church history was presented in a properganderised way and that the fulnes of truth about the history is not presented up front , causing problems later , so we will see what happens , some may not agree with my desire to remain a member , but i think the church is a beautiful thing when presented in the correct way , absolute honesty , all the way to the bank ,, this will bring a more realistic compassionate society , fully in touch with the real world

[silverfox]

I had my first interview with Bishop for a year today , he started off asking me if i was a good father , ihad to think about that later i asked my girls and they seemed to think i was , then came other questions , why was i not going to the temple ect , i exsplained that i had not been wearing g,s for some time , when asked why i said they cause me to feel depressed and anxious , why is that , i don,t know i said , but it just does not feel right , then i exsplained my belief that idid not believe the book of mormon to be a historical document , but i did believe it to be a prophetical work , but was written by JS himself ,i also pointed out some of the anorcorisms with the 19 century such as lehis dream , i asked if i was going to be disfellowshiped because of my point of view , he said not while he was bishop , but i said , yes and when your released what then , hr said , don,t worry i will be here a while yet so in the end the interview was amicable , i exspressed my desire to remain a member even tho i have an alternate view , but would remain non participating until i saw a more honest presentation of JS work , i also comentated that i thought the church history was presented in a properganderised way and that the fulnes of truth about the history is not presented up front , causing problems later , so we will see what happens , some may not agree with my desire to remain a member , but i think the church is a beautiful thing when presented in the correct way , absolute honesty , all the way to the bank ,, this will bring a more realistic compassionate society , fully in touch with the real world

Hopefully many of us will live to see the day the church turns it's crap around. I'm not holding my breath, though.

[silverfox]

I want to say, too, hitchhiker that although you feel you wish to remain a member, which I deeply respect, I am grateful you have don't criticize or rag on those of us who have chosen to end our membership.

I feel you really try to understand where we are coming from.

[hamar]

Hitchhiker, your being here in this venue and sharing your feelings is helping me understand why others might want to remain associated with an organization that I feel is spewing lies and bullshit.

At the working level there are a lot of people like you that want it to be what I and many others had hoped it would be. Having the desire and courage/strength to stay in tscc as a voice from within may help prod others to push the COB towards more honesty with their members.

While it will leave a temporary void in my life, I have chosen to move on as well and I am very happy with that decision. The more I'm around here the more my anger eases and I'm able to "listen" to the reasoning of others like you that choose to remain, somewhat, wrapped in the tennacles of that church. :)

I respect your decision and your voice here. I apologize in advance for any anger I may demonstrate, in the future, when others attempt to defend the church here in this post mormon community.

[why me]

Thanks hitchhiker for a great post. It sounds like you have a good and understanding bishop. I think that your post has helped those of us who still choose to stay in.

Thanks again for the personal post!

[hitchiker]

I want to say, too, hitchhiker that although you feel you wish to remain a member, which I deeply respect, I am grateful you have don't criticize or rag on those of us who have chosen to end our membership.

I feel you really try to understand where we are coming from.no its not in my nature to do that and i have a very open mind , see theres hope silverfox , an open minded mormon who,s non judgemental , but its early days yet . have to see what happens to me in the morg

[hitchiker]

Hitchhiker, your being here in this venue and sharing your feelings is helping me understand why others might want to remain associated with an organization that I feel is spewing lies and bullshit.

At the working level there are a lot of people like you that want it to be what I and many others had hoped it would be. Having the desire and courage/strength to stay in tscc as a voice from within may help prod others to push the COB towards more honesty with their members.

While it will leave a temporary void in my life, I have chosen to move on as well and I am very happy with that decision. The more I'm around here the more my anger eases and I'm able to "listen" to the reasoning of others like you that choose to remain, somewhat, wrapped in the tennacles of that church. :)

I respect your decision and your voice here. I apologize in advance for any anger I may demonstrate, in the future, when others attempt to defend the church here in this post mormon community.I don,t know if i am really defending the church , its also very possible they will boot me out soon , i have raised three times now at church , twice in public and again with the bishop on sunday my belief that unneccesary hurt and damage is being caused to people who firstly believe with all there hearts , then later find they have not been told the truth as it was , feeling cheated distressed they then have to go through incredible pain mentaly as they have to reject the god parent figure they have accepted in there lives at one time , one of these outbursts was very public so everyone knows whats happening to me , altho in previous posts i have focused a lot on the anti social behaviour of some people (small in number actually )it should also be mentioned that many others have been very supportive , The Bishop also asked me on sunday if anybody was causing me any problems at church because of my viewpoints , i mentioned one person ( a bishopric member ) who had given me a few cold hard looks , he said he would deal with it straight away , I am going to carry on with my membership but to continue to state what my beliefs are , it might be interesting to see what happens i also asked the B if i could do a church presentation on Richard bushmans book ( rough rolling stone )advertising the need for members to deepen there beliefs by taking on board the greater complexities of mormonism , he has not said yes to that at present , he also asked me what calling i thought i could do at church , the only thing i could think of was helping those that have become deeply distressed in there church membership , perhaps aleviating the devastation which goes with that sudden change , he suggested i do a sociology degree , not likely to happen but its a nice idea ...

[silverfox]

he also asked me what calling i thought i could do at church , the only thing i could think of was helping those that have become deeply distressed in there church membership , perhaps aleviating the devastation which goes with that sudden change ,

Would this calling include giving 10% of your pot stash? :D :D

[hamar]

While I respect your intentions, Hitchiker, I have a feeling that the TBMs will only tolerate so much psychological discomfort before they drive you out of their midst. I wish you well, but don't hold much hope for your success. What you are doing is akin to serving a mission in Sodom, in reverse. IMO

[why me]

I don,t know if i am really defending the church , its also very possible they will boot me out soon , i have raised three times now at church , twice in public and again with the bishop on sunday my belief that unneccesary hurt and damage is being caused to people who firstly believe with all there hearts , then later find they have not been told the truth as it was , feeling cheated distressed they then have to go through incredible pain mentaly as they have to reject the god parent figure they have accepted in there lives at one time , one of these outbursts was very public so everyone knows whats happening to me , altho in previous posts i have focused a lot on the anti social behaviour of some people (small in number actually )it should also be mentioned that many others have been very supportive , The Bishop also asked me on sunday if anybody was causing me any problems at church because of my viewpoints , i mentioned one person ( a bishopric member ) who had given me a few cold hard looks , he said he would deal with it straight away , I am going to carry on with my membership but to continue to state what my beliefs are , it might be interesting to see what happens i also asked the B if i could do a church presentation on Richard bushmans book ( rough rolling stone )advertising the need for members to deepen there beliefs by taking on board the greater complexities of mormonism , he has not said yes to that at present , he also asked me what calling i thought i could do at church , the only thing i could think of was helping those that have become deeply distressed in there church membership , perhaps aleviating the devastation which goes with that sudden change , he suggested i do a sociology degree , not likely to happen but its a nice idea ...
It seems to me hitchiker that you have a great bishop who is a fair guy. I think that your presentation on Bushman will be great...as long as it is informative and not confrontational. You just need to remember who your audience is.

I also think that you have learned much in this forum and I think that this knowledge will be very beneficial to the people who need the support and advice.

Be well in New Zealand!

[hitchiker]

While I respect your intentions, Hitchiker, I have a feeling that the TBMs will only tolerate so much psychological discomfort before they drive you out of their midst. I wish you well, but don't hold much hope for your success. What you are doing is akin to serving a mission in Sodom, in reverse. IMOyour probably right , but its going to be interesting that they have to actually push somebody out , they might not be very popular doing that

[hitchiker]

Would this calling include giving 10% of your pot stash? :D :Dif they like they can have 20 %

[hamar]

It is interesting how the church has changed their strategy over the past few years. Some friends of mine were excommunicated about 10 years ago for demonstrating the same behavior you are now demonstrating.
Now they have seemed to take a very careful approach to this type of behavior and are careful not to react aggresively to members who openly question church history and doctrine.
I don't think any official actions will be taken; however, the body of the church, i.e., your ward members may react to shun you and shut you out of any activity that would allow you to feel a part of the ward family and, in essence, push you away and/or out, because of their anger and misunderstanding of your taking an unpopular position regarding tscc.
BTW, DW and I received our official "you are no longer members" letter from Greg Dodge this week. We are officially exmos now.

[silverfox]

It is interesting how the church has changed their strategy over the past few years. Some friends of mine were excommunicated about 10 years ago for demonstrating the same behavior you are now demonstrating.
Now they have seemed to take a very careful approach to this type of behavior and are careful not to react aggresively to members who openly question church history and doctrine.
I don't think any official actions will be taken; however, the body of the church, i.e., your ward members may react to shun you and shut you out of any activity that would allow you to feel a part of the ward family and, in essence, push you away and/or out, because of their anger and misunderstanding of your taking an unpopular position regarding tscc.
BTW, DW and I received our official "you are no longer members" letter from Greg Dodge this week. We are officially exmos now.

I agree with your comments. I sure found out real fast who my "friends" were.

Congrats on receiving your letter from Greg! How long did it take start to finish? It took me 3 months.

[hamar]

I agree with your comments. I sure found out real fast who my "friends" were.

Congrats on receiving your letter from Greg! How long did it take start to finish? It took me 3 months.

We submitted our letter in July, so about four months. Just like having a GHS; oh, what a relief it is! :p

[hitchiker]

It is interesting how the church has changed their strategy over the past few years. Some friends of mine were excommunicated about 10 years ago for demonstrating the same behavior you are now demonstrating.
Now they have seemed to take a very careful approach to this type of behavior and are careful not to react aggresively to members who openly question church history and doctrine.
I don't think any official actions will be taken; however, the body of the church, i.e., your ward members may react to shun you and shut you out of any activity that would allow you to feel a part of the ward family and, in essence, push you away and/or out, because of their anger and misunderstanding of your taking an unpopular position regarding tscc.
BTW, DW and I received our official "you are no longer members" letter from Greg Dodge this week. We are officially exmos now.this has already happened , ostracization

[Born Free]

this has already happened , ostracization

Hitchhiker,

Mormification is when the Mormons shun you. Oztricization is when the Australians don't want to know you!!! :eek:

Daryl

[hitchiker]

Hitchhiker,

Mormification is when the Mormons shun you. Oztricization is when the Australians don't want to know you!!! :eek:

Darylnot sure i am getting you on this one

[lunaverse]

not sure i am getting you on this one

It's just a bad pun ;)

Luna

[wileycoyote]

Hitchhiker,
I think I may be a few month's ahead of you in my process of finding out all this new stuff about the church. I can remember thinking that I wanted to ask the bishop if I could talk in a sacrament meeting and basicaly state my case and tell everyone what I'd learned. I was going to let the Bishop edit my talk and approve of everything beforehand.Come out of the spiritual closet in public. Now I know what a Bad,Bad,Bad,Bad,Bad,Bad,Etc. Idea this would have been. The best advice I've gotten about This process from post mormons(changing your view of the church) is to keep quiet and not make waves. I know this is the exact opposite of what your gut wants you to do, but looking back at my experience I believe it's the best course of action. Abe Lincoln said that while he was farming.If he came upon a stump that he knew he couldn't remove. He'd just plow around it. That my new moto, I'll keep plowing, but I'm going around the church.

[hitchiker]

Hitchhiker,
I think I may be a few month's ahead of you in my process of finding out all this new stuff about the church. I can remember thinking that I wanted to ask the bishop if I could talk in a sacrament meeting and basicaly state my case and tell everyone what I'd learned. I was going to let the Bishop edit my talk and approve of everything beforehand.Come out of the spiritual closet in public. Now I know what a Bad,Bad,Bad,Bad,Bad,Bad,Etc. Idea this would have been. The best advice I've gotten about This process from post mormons(changing your view of the church) is to keep quiet and not make waves. I know this is the exact opposite of what your gut wants you to do, but looking back at my experience I believe it's the best course of action. Abe Lincoln said that while he was farming.If he came upon a stump that he knew he couldn't remove. He'd just plow around it. That my new moto, I'll keep plowing, but I'm going around the church.yea its a bad idea all right , talking to people who have been brainwashed about truth is a bit like talking to monkeys about physics , a total waste of time , except maybe the monkeys would get a bit of a laugh out of it ////////

[why me]

I don,t know if i am really defending the church , its also very possible they will boot me out soon , i have raised three times now at church , twice in public and again with the bishop on sunday my belief that unneccesary hurt and damage is being caused to people who firstly believe with all there hearts , then later find they have not been told the truth as it was , feeling cheated distressed they then have to go through incredible pain mentaly as they have to reject the god parent figure they have accepted in there lives at one time , one of these outbursts was very public so everyone knows whats happening to me , altho in previous posts i have focused a lot on the anti social behaviour of some people (small in number actually )it should also be mentioned that many others have been very supportive , The Bishop also asked me on sunday if anybody was causing me any problems at church because of my viewpoints , i mentioned one person ( a bishopric member ) who had given me a few cold hard looks , he said he would deal with it straight away , I am going to carry on with my membership but to continue to state what my beliefs are , it might be interesting to see what happens i also asked the B if i could do a church presentation on Richard bushmans book ( rough rolling stone )advertising the need for members to deepen there beliefs by taking on board the greater complexities of mormonism , he has not said yes to that at present , he also asked me what calling i thought i could do at church , the only thing i could think of was helping those that have become deeply distressed in there church membership , perhaps aleviating the devastation which goes with that sudden change , he suggested i do a sociology degree , not likely to happen but its a nice idea ...
Bushman's book was just mentioned in church news. And so was the newsweek article. Once it is in church news the secret is out. I think that many people are educating themselves about the chruch nowadays. I am sure that the lds population is gulping down Bushman right now.

And many will find his book pleasant to read and conversational. You could hold an informa meeting/presentation at your town library for members to attend and for the general public if you wish.

As you know the book does present a fair presentation of JS. If you did give such a presentation on bushman's book, it cannot be hostile toward JS or the church but rather it would need to be done reverently and with the intent to be educational.

[silverfox]

Hitchhiker,
I think I may be a few month's ahead of you in my process of finding out all this new stuff about the church. I can remember thinking that I wanted to ask the bishop if I could talk in a sacrament meeting and basicaly state my case and tell everyone what I'd learned. I was going to let the Bishop edit my talk and approve of everything beforehand.Come out of the spiritual closet in public. Now I know what a Bad,Bad,Bad,Bad,Bad,Bad,Etc. Idea this would have been. The best advice I've gotten about This process from post mormons(changing your view of the church) is to keep quiet and not make waves. I know this is the exact opposite of what your gut wants you to do, but looking back at my experience I believe it's the best course of action. Abe Lincoln said that while he was farming.If he came upon a stump that he knew he couldn't remove. He'd just plow around it. That my new moto, I'll keep plowing, but I'm going around the church.

Agreed. I learned real fast that no one wanted to hear my questions, listen to my concerns. In fact when I spoke with leaders I was told to pray and fast more, be sure to attend all meetings and pay my tithing. Pray, pay and obey...that's the motto when anything "questionable" comes up. I was also told to not speak with fellow church members regarding my questions and feelings of betrayal.

So tread carefully. I haven't heard of or met one member who was given time to make such a presentation. Doesn't matter how educational they tried to make it. The church for the most part won't take the chance.

[peter_mary]

Hitchhiker,
I can remember thinking that I wanted to ask the bishop if I could talk in a sacrament meeting and basicaly state my case and tell everyone what I'd learned. I was going to let the Bishop edit my talk and approve of everything beforehand.Come out of the spiritual closet in public. Now I know what a Bad,Bad,Bad,Bad,Bad,Bad,Etc. Idea this would have been. The best advice I've gotten about This process from post mormons(changing your view of the church) is to keep quiet and not make waves. I know this is the exact opposite of what your gut wants you to do, but looking back at my experience I believe it's the best course of action. Abe Lincoln said that while he was farming.If he came upon a stump that he knew he couldn't remove. He'd just plow around it. That my new moto, I'll keep plowing, but I'm going around the church.
I like this comparison to plowing around a stump, in part because the stump is, shall we say, "useless" (at least in MY farm!) What I've also learned is that the further removed you are from the time you have the grand realization that all is NOT well in Zion, the less compelled you feel to have these conversations with the True and Faithful. Given enough time and space away from church, it just doesn't matter any more. But at first, you want EVERYONE to know what you've learned. In part, I think that's because you really want them to believe that you continue to be the same smart, informed person you were before you left, and not some weak-willed, unworthy quasi-Mormon who was offended by some remark by an insensitive Home Teacher or Elders Quorum President. You want them to know that you made an informed choice...but after a while, you don't care what they think, and more importantly, you realize you weren't all that important in the first place and they really aren't thinking about you at all. They have their own problems to worry about!

[hitchiker]

I like this comparison to plowing around a stump, in part because the stump is, shall we say, "useless" (at least in MY farm!) What I've also learned is that the further removed you are from the time you have the grand realization that all is NOT well in Zion, the less compelled you feel to have these conversations with the True and Faithful. Given enough time and space away from church, it just doesn't matter any more. But at first, you want EVERYONE to know what you've learned. In part, I think that's because you really want them to believe that you continue to be the same smart, informed person you were before you left, and not some weak-willed, unworthy quasi-Mormon who was offended by some remark by an insensitive Home Teacher or Elders Quorum President. You want them to know that you made an informed choice...but after a while, you don't care what they think, and more importantly, you realize you weren't all that important in the first place and they really aren't thinking about you at all. They have their own problems to worry about!worse still s, some were actually cheering as you walked out the door , then on getting outside you found someone had scrawled all over the car , f#*ck you jack mormon and all the tires are flat ,

[wileycoyote]

But at first, you want EVERYONE to know what you've learned. In part, I think that's because you really want them to believe that you continue to be the same smart, informed person you were before you left, and not some weak-willed, unworthy quasi-Mormon who was offended by some remark by an insensitive Home Teacher or Elders Quorum President. You want them to know that you made an informed choice...but after a while, you don't care what they think, and more importantly, you realize you weren't all that important in the first place and they really aren't thinking about you at all. They have their own problems to worry about![/QUOTE]

I agree. I'm just moving into the I don't care what they think stage and I can't wait until the "they aren't thinking about me at all" stage is over. :)