My unsympathetic Nature

[Fredl]

I guess my greatest curse is at the same time my greatest blessing: I have a basically rather unsympathetic nature. I have little talent for feeling sorry for either myself or others. I accept life pretty much the way it is and have little sense of moral outrage for the unfortunate victims of history. I see history in terms of winners and losers rather than in terms of oppressors and victims.

Here on PM.org, I'm generally not particularly impressed by the terrible experiences many folks have apparently had. My gut reaction is "get over it". Stop revelling in your misery. Move on". I guess this makes me a pretty unsympathetic guy, which is reflected in my lack of close family attachments and few long term friends. At the same time, it seems to have protected me from the insane level of hostility towards tscc that I see reflected here.

I am once more sliding into the view that I don't really belong here. I see a lot of what people view as sympathy and being helpful as being little more than enablement for people indulging themselves in massive doses of self pity. I see agreement with the most outlandish statements about tscc supported as being reasonable and accurate as long as they're hostile.

I guess the majority view is this produces healing and represents healthy "venting". I guess I'd agree that these seem to be normal human reactions towards difficult situations but I'd also say that for me a little bit of these behaviors goes a long way.

Fred

[why me]

I guess my greatest curse is at the same time my greatest blessing: I have a basically rather unsympathetic nature. I have little talent for feeling sorry for either myself or others. I accept life pretty much the way it is and have little sense of moral outrage for the unfortunate victims of history. I see history in terms of winners and losers rather than in terms of oppressors and victims.

Here on PM.org, I'm generally not particularly impressed by the terrible experiences many folks have apparently had. My gut reaction is "get over it". Stop revelling in your misery. Move on". I guess this makes me a pretty unsympathetic guy, which is reflected in my lack of close family attachments and few long term friends. At the same time, it seems to have protected me from the insane level of hostility towards tscc that I see reflected here.

I am once more sliding into the view that I don't really belong here. I see a lot of what people view as sympathy and being helpful as being little more than enablement for people indulging themselves in massive doses of self pity. I see agreement with the most outlandish statements about tscc supported as being reasonable and accurate as long as they're hostile.

I guess the majority view is this produces healing and represents healthy "venting". I guess I'd agree that these seem to be normal human reactions towards difficult situations but I'd also say that for me a little bit of these behaviors goes a long way.

Fred
Fred! I need you here. I have the same understanding (in general) as you do. You also must understand that this forum should be for all types of postmo's and you are one type of postmo, granted a minority in this forum but so what?

I think that we need more non-bitter postmo's in this forum...it would create a good balance to the posts. And so, I think that you belong here... :)

[silverfox]

If you have complaints please present them to Jeff or one of the moderators. I have yet to receive a PM with complaints about the forum. I have received several complaints about specific members and those have been addressed within the boundaries of the forum policy.

If there are specific occurrences bring them to our attention. Let's talk about it so we understand each other.

[Fredl]

If you have complaints please present them to Jeff or one of the moderators. I have yet to receive a PM with complaints about the forum. I have received several complaints about specific members and those have been addressed within the boundaries of the forum policy.

If there are specific occurrences bring them to our attention. Let's talk about it so we understand each other.

SF, there's absolutely nothing wrong with this forum. It's just that, like tscc, it's not the place for everyone.

Fred

[silverfox]

SF, there's absolutely nothing wrong with this forum. It's just that, like tscc, it's not the place for everyone.

Fred

Thank you for the clarification. And I agree that it's not for everyone.

[Jeff_Ricks]

I guess my greatest curse is at the same time my greatest blessing: I have a basically rather unsympathetic nature. I have little talent for feeling sorry for either myself or others. I accept life pretty much the way it is and have little sense of moral outrage for the unfortunate victims of history. I see history in terms of winners and losers rather than in terms of oppressors and victims.

Here on PM.org, I'm generally not particularly impressed by the terrible experiences many folks have apparently had. My gut reaction is "get over it". Stop revelling in your misery. Move on". I guess this makes me a pretty unsympathetic guy, which is reflected in my lack of close family attachments and few long term friends. At the same time, it seems to have protected me from the insane level of hostility towards tscc that I see reflected here.

I am once more sliding into the view that I don't really belong here. I see a lot of what people view as sympathy and being helpful as being little more than enablement for people indulging themselves in massive doses of self pity. I see agreement with the most outlandish statements about tscc supported as being reasonable and accurate as long as they're hostile.

I guess the majority view is this produces healing and represents healthy "venting". I guess I'd agree that these seem to be normal human reactions towards difficult situations but I'd also say that for me a little bit of these behaviors goes a long way.

Fred
Fred,

As you know everyone experiences life differently. I think you need broaden your thinking with regard to people's experiences. I guess that's another way of saying what you said, that you need to be more sympathetic. If you leave the forum come back in a few years and you’ll see mostly new people. I guarantee it. You haven’t been here long enough to realize that people DO get over it. It just take time. From what I’ve seen it takes about 3 to 5 years to get over it for people who were fully committed to the Church, but they do eventually get over it. People who never fully bought into it or got out at an early age can move on much more quickly. But for the most part everyone moves on at some point. I know many people who at one time needed a forum like ours but have since for the most part moved on. Some of them choose to help others move on and some of them we never hear from again. This isn’t a dead end Fred. You just need more patience with the process…and yes perhaps a little more sympathy.

Jeff

[Fredl]

Thanks for the well meant advice, Jeff, but I'm cutting back on my "shoulds" these days, both inside and outside of tscc. I'm really pretty satisfied with my view of life at this point and find that few people have enough objectivity for me to want to accept their views.

My loss, no doubt, but that's the way I see things and I'm stuck with it.

Best regards, Fred

[flotsam]

Here on PM.org, I'm generally not particularly impressed by the terrible experiences many folks have apparently had. My gut reaction is "get over it". Stop revelling in your misery. Move on".

I've noticed a bit of a cycle since I've been here (lurking since February). Some of the people who were once consistent posters initially have sort of disappeared. And many new folks have popped up.

The people who start disappearing are usually the ones who are most interesting to me. I think it's because they're starting to create something new out of the difficulties they've arisen from.

Then the new folks are often those with a lot of bitterness in them (thus how easy it is to mock the Mormons without being called into question). I understand this bitterness. Some of it is still in me. So the new folks come in, put in their time, and then leave when they start getting interesting.

When I first came to the site I was under the impression that PostMo.org was the place where people were creating something new from the ashes of their Mormonism. I was really interested in that. But It seems like people actually start leaving once they've hit that stage. I wonder where they go?

So, instead of the discussion focusing on the construction of new, nourishing meaning, it usually hangs around how silly Mormons are.

This isn't a complaint. It's just an observation. Communities go in the direction that people want them to go. So PostMo.org is filling a need, just not the one I had originally thought it was designed for. But like I said, if it fulfills a need - rock on.

[silverfox]

Many people I know who have "moved on" create blogs where they share their day to day live adventures. And most has little to do with church issues.

I was very active in a forum similar to this about 3 yrs ago when I first exiting the church. It took me about a year or so to move on. I created a blog and many of my online friends and myslef share our lives via that avenue.

Outside of this forum the church plays a very extremely small role in my life. I don't even think about it unless I experience something to do with it. (community, neighbors, TBM family members, etc)

What I think is important is to continue to provide a forum like this where members leaving the church can find support, info, etc. That is why after about 18 mos of not participating in any forums I was referred to this site. It was new, not much activity. But new Post Mo members would come here with questions and with cries for help and support. And that is what Post Mos can give.

Sharing post mo lives is very personal, IMO. I am careful who I share personal info with so I am not going to post a lot of personal day to day stuff here. But I do in my blog where only my friends visit it so there is no internet "danger" or "risk".

Believe me, there is a lot of life going on outside of this forum. It may appear when coming here that members are consumed. But I know many members have very fullfilling lives outside of Mo'ism.

And it ROCKS! :)

[silverfox]

Fred! I need you here. I have the same understanding (in general) as you do. You also must understand that this forum should be for all types of postmo's and you are one type of postmo, granted a minority in this forum but so what?

I think that we need more non-bitter postmo's in this forum...it would create a good balance to the posts. And so, I think that you belong here... :)

What is your definition of "bitterness"?

[Fredl]

I've noticed a bit of a cycle since I've been here (lurking since February). Some of the people who were once consistent posters initially have sort of disappeared. And many new folks have popped up.

The people who start disappearing are usually the ones who are most interesting to me. I think it's because they're starting to create something new out of the difficulties they've arisen from.

Then the new folks are often those with a lot of bitterness in them (thus how easy it is to mock the Mormons without being called into question). I understand this bitterness. Some of it is still in me. So the new folks come in, put in their time, and then leave when they start getting interesting.

When I first came to the site I was under the impression that PostMo.org was the place where people were creating something new from the ashes of their Mormonism. I was really interested in that. But It seems like people actually start leaving once they've hit that stage. I wonder where they go?

So, instead of the discussion focusing on the construction of new, nourishing meaning, it usually hangs around how silly Mormons are.

This isn't a complaint. It's just an observation. Communities go in the direction that people want them to go. So PostMo.org is filling a need, just not the one I had originally thought it was designed for. But like I said, if it fulfills a need - rock on.

Flotsam, I really enjoyed this post. Am I developing a bitterness towards Post Mormons because they aren't meeting MY needs, just as Post Mormons seem to be so bitter towards the chuch? Hmmmm. I'll have to give that some thought.

Which gives rise to another thought: Is all the bitterness among Post Mormons mostly about the failure of tscc to meet their needs and an unwillingness to meet their own needs themselves? It's really hard for me to accept the contention that post mormons were somehow "mind controlled" during their time in the church. There is SO MUCH information available to anybody that wants to make use of it. I think perhaps that it takes 3 to 5 years to get past the denial that a person played an active and willing role in their "victimization" and greatly exagerated the power of tscc to control them.

I also believe that there are a lot of really smart people in tscc who willingly accept the bargain the church offers and have reasons for doing so that adequately satisfy them. I have known some of the very best people I've ever known in tscc and I think it would be hugely presumptuous of me to say my judgement is better than theirs. Same is true of the USMC. It wasn't the place I wanted to make my career, but I had the greatest respect for most of the men I knew in it who were devoted to it.

To this day, my wife maintains great respect for the JWs, the religion of her mom and her younger years. She defends them when they come up in conversation. I don't think worse of her because of this, just as I don't think my desire to see the Mormons treated fairly makes me a worse person.

I find myself wondering whether one of the charges levelled against tscc stays with people well after they leave it: black and white thinking as well as demoinizing what we don't agree with. It's not this mode of thinking that we leave behind, merely the objects to which we apply this mode of thought that change.

Fred

[Jeff_Ricks]

Which gives rise to another thought: Is all the bitterness among Post Mormons mostly about the failure of tscc to meet their needs and an unwillingness to meet their own needs themselves? It's really hard for me to accept the contention that post mormons were somehow "mind controlled" during their time in the church.
So I assume that you don't believe in the cult dynamic -- that people can be mind controlled?
There is SO MUCH information available to anybody that wants to make use of it.
There's the rub my friend. They have to WANT to make use of it first. Mormonism carefully steers people away from wanting to.
I think perhaps that it takes 3 to 5 years to get past the denial that a person played an active and willing role in their "victimization" and greatly exagerated the power of tscc to control them.
I've never denied that I willingly played a role in my victimization. That's one of the things that has made dealing with my Mormon past so painful. For 36 years I was a slave to an ideology and didn't realize that I could have walked away at any time. But the Church instills in a person so much fear of walking away that they don't do it. It's like putting a person in a room without a door and telling them if they walk through the door they will be vaporized. It's a lie. The same kind of lie consumed much of my life, and thousands of my dollars.

I guess you have to walk in those shoes, Fred, to fully understand it. I was a true blue member for the majority of my life. Not until I reach the age of 73 I will be able to say that most of my life was lived as a non-Mormon. How long were you a member? If I'd only lost say 5 years of my life to Mormonism things would be completely different. In that case I might be wondering why people have such a hard time leaving Moronism too.

Jeff

[Fredl]

So I assume that you don't believe in the cult dynamic -- that people can be mind controlled?

There's the rub my friend. They have to WANT to make use of it first. Mormonism carefully steers people away from wanting to.

I've never denied that I willingly played a role in my victimization. That's one of the things that has made dealing with my Mormon past so painful. For 36 years I was a slave to an ideology and didn't realize that I could have walked away at any time. But the Church instills in a person so much fear of walking away that they don't do it. It's like putting a person in a room without a door and telling them if they walk through the door they will be vaporized. It's a lie. The same kind of lie consumed much of my life, and thousands of my dollars.

I guess you have to walk in those shoes, Fred, to fully understand it. I was a true blue member for the majority of my life. Not until I reach the age of 73 I will be able to say that most of my life was lived as a non-Mormon. How long were you a member? If I'd only lost say 5 years of my life to Mormonism things would be completely different. In that case I might be wondering why people have such a hard time leaving Moronism too.

Jeff

Jeff, let me say first that I really enjoyed this post. I enjoyed hearing about your own experience of life and what brought you to your current position.

First of all, I was a member for only 10 years. I have always been pretty adventurous and welcomed change, including change to my sense of identity. I'm pretty well read and have always had a very wide knowledge of life and religion. So, I guess you have a point when you say that it has been easier for me than many if not most.

I do not regard my 10 years in the church as lost years. I found it a very interesting period in my life in which I learned a great deal. I'm coming out of it with no ill wishes for tscc, a lot of respect for a number of people I met through it and renewed vigor in a number of areas that became a little stunted in the church. At this point, the friends I have in the church I find are treating me very well indeed; without even a trace of rancor or illwill.

I guess my experience has been totally unusual. Perhaps so unusual as to be uninstrutive.

Then again, perhaps folks that are having so much difficulty might like to know more about how I'm doing it.

Fred

[hamar]

While I try to be accepting to the views of others here, even when I don't agree with them, I am happy with the tone here in this venue. When I realized, after 30 years,that I'd been lied to I was embarassed, hurt and confused. If I had come here and found a bunch of unsympathetic defenders of the tscc I wouldn't have been around very long. As it turns out there were many here who were not only patient with my early rants (and they will continue at times) but they shared and let me know that I wasn't the only one who had experienced what I experienced.

I'd be disappointed if the tone of this forum changed and I think it would be a disservice to those who come here looking for help in exiting the morg to find people talking about just getting over it. It's not that easy, IMO. People need help unwrapping the tennacles of tscc from their psyche and "normal" folks like us can help with that process. We've been there done that.

[why me]

What is your definition of "bitterness"?
Bitterness is resentment festered by anger and regret.

[why me]

I've noticed a bit of a cycle since I've been here (lurking since February). Some of the people who were once consistent posters initially have sort of disappeared. And many new folks have popped up.

The people who start disappearing are usually the ones who are most interesting to me. I think it's because they're starting to create something new out of the difficulties they've arisen from.

Then the new folks are often those with a lot of bitterness in them (thus how easy it is to mock the Mormons without being called into question). I understand this bitterness. Some of it is still in me. So the new folks come in, put in their time, and then leave when they start getting interesting.

When I first came to the site I was under the impression that PostMo.org was the place where people were creating something new from the ashes of their Mormonism. I was really interested in that. But It seems like people actually start leaving once they've hit that stage. I wonder where they go?

So, instead of the discussion focusing on the construction of new, nourishing meaning, it usually hangs around how silly Mormons are.

This isn't a complaint. It's just an observation. Communities go in the direction that people want them to go. So PostMo.org is filling a need, just not the one I had originally thought it was designed for. But like I said, if it fulfills a need - rock on.
And that is the problem flotsom...they start leaving when they hit the stage you mentioned.

I think that it doesn't have to be that way. This was my main complaint..I wanted more postmo life posts...I would find that kind of discussion interesting.

I think that there should be room for all kinds of people in this forum and not just for the bitter crowd. No where is it mentioned that this forum is for only those who are in recovery mode.

A postmo forum needs to be multi-functional, incorporating all sorts of people. Why couldn't this forum also be about creating discussions, bonds, and friendships through interactive posts about life as a postmo? There is so much out there related to life that it would be great to read such 'life'.

People move on when the forum no longer suits their needs and yet a good forum is multi-directional where people can relate on different levels of interest and progressions as postmos experiencing life.

And this is why fred should stick around...I would enjoy reading about his life experiences as they happen and as he posts them.

[dancinfree]

I guess my greatest curse is at the same time my greatest blessing: I have a basically rather unsympathetic nature. I have little talent for feeling sorry for either myself or others. I accept life pretty much the way it is and have little sense of moral outrage for the unfortunate victims of history. I see history in terms of winners and losers rather than in terms of oppressors and victims.

Here on PM.org, I'm generally not particularly impressed by the terrible experiences many folks have apparently had. My gut reaction is "get over it". Stop revelling in your misery. Move on". I guess this makes me a pretty unsympathetic guy, which is reflected in my lack of close family attachments and few long term friends. At the same time, it seems to have protected me from the insane level of hostility towards tscc that I see reflected here.

I am once more sliding into the view that I don't really belong here. I see a lot of what people view as sympathy and being helpful as being little more than enablement for people indulging themselves in massive doses of self pity. I see agreement with the most outlandish statements about tscc supported as being reasonable and accurate as long as they're hostile.

I guess the majority view is this produces healing and represents healthy "venting". I guess I'd agree that these seem to be normal human reactions towards difficult situations but I'd also say that for me a little bit of these behaviors goes a long way.

Fred

Hi Fred,

Like you, I am not into the "victim" mentality. I love the idea of taking responsibility for all that I choose and my definitions of my experiences. I do not see myself as a victim of my church activity. I chose my activity in the church. I must have needed some kind of path and guidance as a youth and I found joy in the church. As I grew up, I accepted and believed the church's teachings because I was taught that God guided and was the head of this church. It was HIS teachings...all of it. I could either choose to be obedient and have god's love and strive to be worthy to live with him again and my family or I could choose against the church's teachings and choose satan, evil, damnation and misery. Let's see....which one should I choose?

Only after life's experiences of striving over and over to whip myself abundantly enough to "make" me good enough, overcome weaknesses, be worthy for God, was I faced to make a decision. I tried everything, I wanted so much to succeed and be right for God, be worthy for God, rise up and do it all for Him. Choose the right...I had to be right at all costs, even for my soul. Could I risk in believing in a third choice? That went against all that I had been taught.

Would I have the courage to take the risk and believe that MY soul, deep down, knew that God might not abandon me, He might still love me, no matter what path I chose?...that even if I didn't choose "God's Church", I was still loved and a good person and that maybe I could still BE ME, accept me and be loved by God, somehow. Is that possible? Too good to be true? I had to try, in a way, to save myself from my own damnation.

To choose another door besides satan's door? So scary, so unsure to question my own precious beliefs after 36 years of believing that God would abandon me, thrust me out, if I did so. But I chose because if felt that my soul depended on it....no doctrine reason, no abuse reason. It seemed to be either choose my own soul and accept me, flaws and all and believe that God would choose me too, despite what the church teaches or accept damnation, enemy of God..eternal darkness.

I took the leap and found release, acceptance, love, joy and a truth...that I was enough, as I am. I found myself, not some church's judgement, teaching or required, almost forced path. I allowed myself to stop being RIGHT. I gave it up. I don't have to be right anymore. I am enough, I believe. If I am "wrong" about that, whatever that might look like, then I accept that too. I take full responsibility for it all. No longer do I throw my responsibility unto some God or outside force in my life. What freedom and joy I now feel. A tremendous amount of growth, bursting and continuing everyday, unlike anything I have ever experienced. Self-awareness, acceptance, completeness.

Could I have experienced this sooner in my life? Did the church's influence of my thoughts and beliefs stop me from finding this out sooner? Who knows. But I will not ever "get over it" when it comes to the church. It will always play a part in my path and I am grateful for all that it taught me and served me. But I had to "feel THROUGH it", instead of getting over it. I now see that I get to allow myself to feel, explore and acknowledge pains, hurts, loves, bitterness, resentments, anything that shows up. In doing so, I am not taking the "victim" mentality, only embracing the process of feelings that comes with defining my growth from my past and looking at the present as I walk into the future.

I realize that I've been ranting once again. I guess I wanted you to hear my story before you left, if you choose that. I am not a victim...I accept responsibility for my choices and I have no regrets because all my paths led me to where I am today...for me, it's all about knowing myself, and in that, I get to experience divinity, acceptance and joy. So many people on this forum, so many different perspectives. I learn so much...thank you everyone.

Sympathy does not have to be seen as enabling the victim, but it can be a source of comfort to acknowledge feelings. Everyone has different paths and I respect those paths of others. I hope some find comfort here as I have in expressing myself, but I also recognize that you get to choose what serves you and what doesn't. You get to decide if this is a forum worth continuing for yourself.

You seem to understand yourself well and I'm sure that's assisted you well in your life. Where people are at in their lives, their paths, is not for me to judge but I can put in my two cents worth based on my experience. People will move on when they're ready and not one second sooner...frustrating, huh? :D So, whatever paths you choose, I honor your choices, as yours alone, whether they continue here or elsewhere. A friend here...

[free thinker]

Have you not expressed sympathy to the organization of al- anon? When you go to an al- anon meeting are you tempted to express to them to " get over it"? If not why not?


free thinker

[hitchiker]

I guess my greatest curse is at the same time my greatest blessing: I have a basically rather unsympathetic nature. I have little talent for feeling sorry for either myself or others. I accept life pretty much the way it is and have little sense of moral outrage for the unfortunate victims of history. I see history in terms of winners and losers rather than in terms of oppressors and victims.

Here on PM.org, I'm generally not particularly impressed by the terrible experiences many folks have apparently had. My gut reaction is "get over it". Stop revelling in your misery. Move on". I guess this makes me a pretty unsympathetic guy, which is reflected in my lack of close family attachments and few long term friends. At the same time, it seems to have protected me from the insane level of hostility towards tscc that I see reflected here.

I am once more sliding into the view that I don't really belong here. I see a lot of what people view as sympathy and being helpful as being little more than enablement for people indulging themselves in massive doses of self pity. I see agreement with the most outlandish statements about tscc supported as being reasonable and accurate as long as they're hostile.

I guess the majority view is this produces healing and represents healthy "venting". I guess I'd agree that these seem to be normal human reactions towards difficult situations but I'd also say that for me a little bit of these behaviors goes a long way.

FredI am sorry you have not been impressed by the exsperiences you have read on this forum , as a person struggling to find my life out of the maze of mormonism i have been impressed with much that i have read , i have found this to be of more help to me than anything else that i have been part of for a long long time , what worrys me about your own story of leaving the church is , that at times your appear quite flippant about it , from memory some words were like , i can,t see why people are finding this so difficult , and with that , in a short space of time you changed the whole structure of life , as if with ease , most people who were hardcore believers over long time periods have not had that exsperience , but rarther found themselves facing insurmountable problems as they faced marrige break ups , loss of former friends and culture , these problems led some to depression , exstended illnes and suicide , i know of at least two suicides because of problems with belief structure , and i don,t know that many mormons,
I have to ask you , are you really in touch with your deep emotions , or are you on a helter skelter ride and have not come down with a bump yet , another thing , if you check the ex jo jo site , you will find the exit stories from that church somewhat more horrific than mormon sagas , i read with pain a couple who spent 40 years as missionaries for that church , then were excommunicated for exspressing doubts , on this happening this man suffered two heart attacks as the stress engulfed him . further to that his life became a living misery as his only son who was still active , was forbidden to ever contact his parents again , yea right fred , who needs a forum like this , get real ///////////

[silverfox]

I think some choose not to focus on the good and positive on this board. For some the bitterness and anger jumps out at them and they are blinded by it and can't see beyond it.

How unfortunate. Because I have found through the posts that many members of this forum have very happy stable productive lives after leaving the church. We have talked about our feelings in that regard and have shared some wonderful experiences and feelings.

So while there are feelings / experiences of anger and bitterness which is to be expected, there are also some very positive and beautiful posts.

I am sorry some members fail to acknowledge or recognize them.

Here are some examples:
http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=1112&highlight=happy

http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=1072&highlight=happy

http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=984&highlight=happy

A thread about how lives have changed:
http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=980&highlight=happy

And here
http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=868&highlight=happy

http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=659&highlight=happy

http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=241&highlight=happy

http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=91&highlight=happy

http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=61&highlight=happy

http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=105&highlight=happy

I can go on and on. And I should also mention all the interesting sex threads and threads regarding personal struggles with illness (glad you are doing great, Jeff!) and there are many many threads that do not display ANY bitterness or anger although they do discuss church topics.

I just don't see this site as such a bitter angry site. I find a lot of humor and love and sharing of personal experiences here. Of course there will be feelings of anger and bitterness but I don't see is as being so overwhelming as is claimed.

[lunaverse]

I think some choose not to focus on the good and positive on this board. For some the bitterness and anger jumps out at them and they are blinded by it and can't see beyond it.

How unfortunate. Because I have found through the posts that many members of this forum have very happy stable productive lives after leaving the church. We have talked about our feelings in that regard and have shared some wonderful experiences and feelings.

Also I should point out that what we choose to post here is an unrepresentative sampling of what we do in our lives.

Just because much of what I post is "cult this" and "Mo'ism is bad because of that", doesn't mean that's all I've been doing in my life since I left.

I'll make a new thread on this, since my posts about the Church are going to be, still for a while, negative. The Church affected me in negative ways, and I'm not going to lie or change my position on that just because some people don't like to hear it...

But I do have many positive things in my life. So I'll talk about that in a new thread. (And I've already listed the positive things the Church has given me in another thread, too.)

Luna

[silverfox]

Also I should point out that what we choose to post here is an unrepresentative sampling of what we do in our lives.

Just because much of what I post is "cult this" and "Mo'ism is bad because of that", doesn't mean that's all I've been doing in my life since I left.

I'll make a new thread on this, since my posts about the Church are going to be, still for a while, negative. The Church affected me in negative ways, and I'm not going to lie or change my position on that just because some people don't like to hear it...

But I do have many positive things in my life. So I'll talk about that in a new thread. (And I've already listed the positive things the Church has given me in another thread, too.)

Luna

As I read through some old threads I found there is so much good here. I love the influence here and the much needed support that is offered by members.

I think it's important (and I've said it time and time again) that I feel very few of us are "consumed" with Mo'ism outside this board. I used to be and it took me a couple years to work through it but it is such a small part of my life.

It's wonderful! For those of you who feel like the day will never come that you don't think about Mo'ism and it's betrayal, I want to tell you there is hope! I thought I wouldn't see the day but I have and it's beautiful!