Sterotyping and Single TBM Parenting

[silverfox]

Do we have any members who experienced life as a single TBM parent? What were your experiences? How were you treated by your ward and leaders?

I was a single mom with 4 kids for a few years. I felt very stereotyped. A bishop even told me that because I had experienced sex that I would have to be careful because of course, he realized I probably wanted it all the time now and had no husband to accomodate my needs. I WANTED TO CRAWL UNDER HIS DESK AND DIE! So I got a 30 minute lecture on how I was supposed to curb my sexual appetite and that it was up to me keep men strong. (hey, after a bad marriage and an ugly divorce I was very close to becoming a celibate lesbian so I was appalled) I wasn't even interested in dating yet.

Hometeachers were not allowed to come to my home with out their wives. (word must have got out that I was a sex fiend :p ) I tried to get missionaries to come over for dinner, etc to bond with my kids. They were at impressionalbe ages and I longed for them to have someone who showed an interest in them. I have no family support and their dad was not involved in their lives that much. But mishies weren't allowed, not even the female ones. We were told point blank they weren't allowed to enter our home. I never did understand that.

Oh and when I did start dating I was always asked if I was just looking for a daddy for my kids. It was almost the first thing out of my dates mouth most of the time. grrrrrrrrrrrrrr (I would imagine neverMos experience that as well)

[mutleydog]

It was hard enough being a single TBM at the age of 26/27!! Man! How I should have been married by then!!

That is insane re the missionaries. What did they think you were gonna do?!! I never had any problems with my home teachers, but saying that, my HT were a couple......I find it all very bizarre! Saying that....I am sure if by any chance the church wanted to seek me out as an inactive, they wouldn't even let the female missionaries near me with a barge pole now!! Makes me soooooo mad!!

As a singleton I always felt like people thought there was something wrong with me......one bishop was trying to encourage me to go to BYU, just so I could find a mormon husband! I never did take him up on that advice!! The stigma of getting to the age of the 'Single Adults' is so awful though.....there is so much pressure to get married young etc. I hated that pressure so much!! :mad:

[silverfox]

Oh, the PRESSURE! You are right, mutleydog! I was almost 21 when I came to Utard. I couldn't believe the pressure I was under to get married and start having those babies!!!! Yep, I complied. And learned that many members marry for "wothiness" not love. sigh.

[Born Free]

Do we have any members who experienced life as a single TBM parent? What were your experiences? How were you treated by your ward and leaders?

I was a single mom with 4 kids for a few years. I felt very stereotyped. A bishop even told me that because I had experienced sex that I would have to be careful because of course, he realized I probably wanted it all the time now and had no husband to accomodate my needs.

silverfox,

As I read this, I asked myself, where does this level of fear and ignorance come from? It does not distill in a vacuum.

And I saw a potential connection with the thread re the lack of a collective appreciation of the divine feminine. If the feminine is not worthy of divine status, then the mortal version is hardly worth understanding, respecting, and honouring.

It also smacks of massive projection. Mormon males generally could not be more out of touch with their 'inner feminine', so they disown and project it, out onto women who make good targets for their projection (the powerless mostly). Instead of acknowledging the ravenous, parched state of their own inner world, they see certain women as sex crazed caverns, with the potential to consume everything that comes vaguely within their orbit..... like black holes.

I have said before that the two biggest concepts I got on board in adult life were projection and boundaries, and this is a classic exercise to illustrate what happens when church members and leaders haven't a clue about those two issues. I recall sharing this observation with a TBM brother, and he could not see why those issues had relevence to Mormonism - surely people could learn those things elsewhere?

Priesthood holding Mormon males are mostly full time projectors. It seems to me single mothers might wear T shirts with an image of a projector screen on the chest, underpinned by the text "Project your unresolved #hit here!"

Your statement "I WANTED TO CRAWL UNDER HIS DESK AND DIE!" broke my heart. I am sure you would have 10 scripts ready today to respond to such amazing stupidity. Share with us how you would answer that statement if it was repeated today!

Implicit in this message is the subscript that men are not responsible for their sexual urges/actions. I resent that, both becasue it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy, and because it fails to hold men accountable for all they might be. Many churches drip with the milleniums old projection that started with the Eve/Apple story. Guys need to take a firm grip on themselves (pun intended), and be told with consistency - real men own responsibility for their sexual urges, and don't project that onto women and the powerless.

Of course Mormonism offers men the ultimate out on this one with - such is the nature of men; that is why God instituted plural marriage. (and God created man in his own image; and man returned the favour! :rolleyes: )

Daryl

[lsands]

But I attended off and on for three years before leaving for good. I remember reading an article in the Ensign and being SO offended by the patronizing tone: "Poor you, you're single. I know this is a terrible cross to bear, but if you're worthy someday you will have the joy of being married again."!!! :mad:

I thought at the time, what if the article were reversed and the mesage were, Poor you, you're MARRIED!

Anyone here ever been to a singles dance? It's like junior high-deja vu. I describe it as a special kind of hell. I had a friend who tried to warn me, but I had to experience it for myself.

Thank God that I left all of that B.S. behind and can feel perfectly good about myself and where I choose to be in life! :D

[Born Free]

But I attended off and on for three years before leaving for good. I remember reading an article in the Ensign and being SO offended by the patronizing tone: "Poor you, you're single. I know this is a terrible cross to bear, but if you're worthy someday you will have the joy of being married again."!!! :mad:

I thought at the time, what if the article were reversed and the mesage were, Poor you, you're MARRIED!

Anyone here ever been to a singles dance? It's like junior high-deja vu. I describe it as a special kind of hell. I had a friend who tried to warn me, but I had to experience it for myself.

Thank God that I left all of that B.S. behind and can feel perfectly good about myself and where I choose to be in life! :D

Recently in one of our major weekend newspapers (probably the equivalent of the NY Times), there was a great article by a Christain woman in her thirties, who came out and said that for a Christian woman in her thirites of average to less than average looks, the chances of finding love, marrying and having afamily were miniscule, if she hoped to marry a practicing Christian man.

She boldy stated that she had seriously looked at the reality of that position, and its impact on her living the rest of her life, loveless and sexless. She declared she was seriously considering changing what she regarded as an acceptable relationship. She observed that all the people beating up the stock of marriage within the Church, singles sexual sobreity etc., etc., were attractive, married, and therefore had no basis of empathizing with her whatsoever. To make matters worse, there are many more women in that position than men (Christian singles that is).

I thought it an insightful and intelligent article. Pie in the sky, does not warm ones bed at night, and most of the moralizers have not a clue about the issues on which they claim the moral high ground.

It is like straights telling gays, "Yes, I can accept that God may have made you gay. Just don't do anything gay-sexual".

Yeah! Just try on that notion for hetero, and see how you like the idea, and how practical to be a happy healthy human being, and just remove sexuality from the equation.

Oh, the ignorance of most majorities in relating to the experience of a minority!

Daryl

[free thinker]

Recently in one of our major weekend newspapers (probably the equivalent of the NY Times), there was a great article by a Christain woman in her thirties, who came out and said that for a Christian woman in her thirites of average to less than average looks, the chances of finding love, marrying and having afamily were miniscule, if she hoped to marry a practicing Christian man.

She boldy stated that she had seriously looked at the reality of that position, and its impact on her living the rest of her life, loveless and sexless. She declared she was seriously considering changing what she regarded as an acceptable relationship. She observed that all the people beating up the stock of marriage within the Church, singles sexual sobreity etc., etc., were attractive, married, and therefore had no basis of empathizing with her whatsoever. To make matters worse, there are many more women in that position than men (Christian singles that is).

I thought it an insightful and intelligent article. Pie in the sky, does not warm ones bed at night, and most of the moralizers have not a clue about the issues on which they claim the moral high ground.

It is like straights telling gays, "Yes, I can accept that God may have made you gay. Just don't do anything gay-sexual".

Yeah! Just try on that notion for hetero, and see how you like the idea, and how practical to be a happy healthy human being, and just remove sexuality from the equation.

Oh, the ignorance of most majorities in relating to the experience of a minority!

Daryl


Well said! You know if I am not mistaken, someone said " Judge not that ye be not judged" !! Seems like I remember hearing something like that somewhere!! :o

Free Thinker

[mutleydog]

I thought it an insightful and intelligent article. Pie in the sky, does not warm ones bed at night, and most of the moralizers have not a clue about the issues on which they claim the moral high ground.

It is like straights telling gays, "Yes, I can accept that God may have made you gay. Just don't do anything gay-sexual".

Yeah! Just try on that notion for hetero, and see how you like the idea, and how practical to be a happy healthy human being, and just remove sexuality from the equation.

Oh, the ignorance of most majorities in relating to the experience of a minority!

Daryl


I find it completely amazing that there are many people that think along those lines.......My ex-bishop was one when I approached him about being gay...."Its ok to be gay, but do not act on those feelings....its just the cross you have to bare"!

Yeah right!! For me being gay is an inherent attribute and to advise someone to willingly go against that is beyond belief! There was no way I was going to live a celibate life! That doesn't mean I am promiscuous (like many mormon people think you are because your gay - there is promiscuity in all walks of life). I have found a wonderful partner and we 'waited' until it was right to go further in our relationship. For both of us sexual intimacy is a special thing, but its also a natrual and healthy part of life - I think its a joke that the church advises against gay intimacy, especially now they are beginning to realise that there is so much evidence/knowledge, world thought, that being gay is not a choice......

[silverfox]

silverfox,
It also smacks of massive projection. Mormon males generally could not be more out of touch with their 'inner feminine', so they disown and project it, out onto women who make good targets for their projection (the powerless mostly). Instead of acknowledging the ravenous, parched state of their own inner world, they see certain women as sex crazed caverns, with the potential to consume everything that comes vaguely within their orbit..... like black holes.

Your statement "I WANTED TO CRAWL UNDER HIS DESK AND DIE!" broke my heart. I am sure you would have 10 scripts ready today to respond to such amazing stupidity. Share with us how you would answer that statement if it was repeated today!

Daryl

Boy did you tell it like it is!!! And actually NOW how I would respond to a priesthood leader? It would never happen because I won't be sitting in front of one EVER again.

Now if I could do it over I would be very blunt and just let him know he hasn't a clue what the F is going on. (yes I would definitely insert the F word into the dialogue) I would highly recommend he start reading some books, taking classes or whatever he needed to do to understand human sexuality. And that I was completely disgusted with how women are held responsible by the church for everyone else's ability or inability to control their sex drive. And that I planned to go on with my life and find a wonderful mate and have lots of great sex in spite of his attempts to try to deter me from that.

Is it just me or was sex a big topic of the church in the 80's??? Remember the oral sex "ban" when bish's would ask as part of their interviews if you and your spouse practiced oral sex? When ex and I were presented with this question, I said no while he said yes. My follow up response was it was none of his business. But we were busted anyway. And got a lecture. What a weirdo bish. I always just thought he was being weird and jealous but then realized everyone was being asked the same question.

[Born Free]

Boy did you tell it like it is!!! And actually NOW how I would respond to a priesthood leader? It would never happen because I won't be sitting in front of one EVER again.


I have an acquaintance who is still an active Mormon, but when he was called as a Bishop, and came to see what was required of him in counselling, packed himself off to university and got some formal counselling qualifications.

I can't relate to his decision to stay Mormon, but if one must stay, I had the greatest respect for his response. Needless to say, he is the only person I have ever heard of who did such a thing.

The rest are guided by the Spirit. From what I observe, either: the Spirit is a poor guide, the Priethood make poor guidees, or the Spirit is some sort of inept counsellor and/or sex nut!

Daryl