Did Jesus exist? Court to decide

[helemon]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/04/italy.jesus.reut/index.html
An Italian court is tackling Jesus -- and whether the Roman Catholic Church may be breaking the law by teaching that he existed 2,000 years ago.

"The Church constructed Christ upon the personality of John of Gamala," Cascioli claimed, referring to the 1st century Jew who fought against the Roman army.

A court in Viterbo will hear from Righi, who has yet to be indicted, at a January 27 preliminary hearing meant to determine whether the case has enough merit to go forward.

"In my book, 'The Fable of Christ,' I present proof Jesus did not exist as a historic figure. He must now refute this by showing proof of Christ's existence," Cascioli said.

[miss taken]

Golly Gosh. I am ignorant. I have never heard of John of Gamala.

Interesting, surely though he has to prove that Jesus didn't exist???

Wierd case.

Mary

[bobcat]

This is an odd case, but I think it has very little merit. The crimes that Cascioli is accusing the church of are:

1. thou shalt not swindle or con the people
2. impersonation (I assume this refers to the Church's allegation that it is able to speak for God)

Good luck proving either of these things in a court in a country that's been Christian for about 1600 years now. Legally, too, Cascioli will have to establish that historically Jesus didn't exist, and that the church KNEW this and KNOWINGLY conned the people. Since the existance of Jesus is so up in the air, Cascioli will have an impossible time convincing anyone that he absolutely didn't exist, much less that the Catholic Church has known this for centuries.

[Born Free]

Golly Gosh. I am ignorant. I have never heard of John of Gamala.

Interesting, surely though he has to prove that Jesus didn't exist???

Wierd case.

Mary

Mary,

If I claimed that Batman existed and performed miracles, would the onus be on you to disprove me? Only in a non-scientific world.

I am guessing this guy is not initiating this without some significant begree of confidence that a strong case exists that JC never existed, and is in fact a figment of creation which has in large part been spun by the RC Church.

Boy, if he wins the case Pfeizer shares will increase in value!

Daryl

[elder_nomo]

Mary,

If I claimed that Batman existed and performed miracles, would the onus be on you to disprove me? Only in a non-scientific world.

I am guessing this guy is not initiating this without some significant begree of confidence that a strong case exists that JC never existed, and is in fact a figment of creation which has in large part been spun by the RC Church.

Boy, if he wins the case Pfeizer shares will increase in value!

Daryl
Daryl - I don't know anything about Italian law (hell, I don't even know much about US law), but I would guess that the one bringing the suit has more of the burden of proof.

I don't get the Pfeizer reference? :confused:

[Born Free]

Daryl - I don't know anything about Italian law (hell, I don't even know much about US law), but I would guess that the one bringing the suit has more of the burden of proof.

I don't get the Pfeizer reference? :confused:

They are a manufacturer of anti-depressants.

Billy Connolly made a great film here (playing opposite Judy David) that I am not sure ever got circulated in the States, called The Man Who Sued God. Connolly's boat gets struck by lightning, and the insurance company renegs on the payout on the basis that the strike was an act of God. So Connolly's character then puts a whole group of religions into the witness box around the role of God in all this. If I remeber well, they eventually settled out of court. Great laugh and very clever.

http://www.phase9.tv/movies/manwhosuedgod.shtml

I am the least trained in law on the planet, but most law follows good logic, so that was the basis of my reasoning.

Daryl

[helemon]

They are a manufacturer of anti-depressants.



Oh yeah, I was thinking of their little blue pill. :D

[Born Free]

Oh yeah, I was thinking of their little blue pill. :D

Yes, an anti-depressant! (of sorts) :rolleyes: :)

Daryl

[helemon]

Yes, an anti-depressant! (of sorts) :rolleyes: :)

Daryl

Well you know what the Christians teach about how atheists just want to be able to have all sorts of illicit sex, therefore if God was proven not to exist it would undoubtably lead to a massive orgy right?

[Born Free]

Well you know what the Christians teach about how atheists just want to be able to have all sorts of illicit sex, therefore if God was proven not to exist it would undoubtably lead to a massive orgy right?

Yep!

And if one is off to any orgy, then you need be equipped to be as orgiastic as possible :eek: and having a limp noodle would not do. So lots a little blue tablets.

As an aside, I recently discovered some curious thinking among some of the young people. It went:

Can't have unsafe sex, must wear a raincoat.
Raincoats kill sensation.
Limp noodles are a risk, after loss of sensation.
Take a little blue tablet to stop the noodle getting depressed!

Logical eh?

God forbid, I have just promoted safe orgies! :duh

Daryl

PS: Have you noticed that the 'slap' :slap: and 'duh' :duh icons have been promoted to head of the list? Is this becasue of how popular they are?

[elder_nomo]

They are a manufacturer of anti-depressants.
:duh
Thanks, Daryl
:o

[miss taken]

Well, I think the guy is going to have a lot of difficulties.
First, one has to prove when the Catholic church itself began as a distinct organisation. From my knowledge, despite the plea's to a continuation in the line of authority from Peter,this is in no way proven..

Another thing, is that from the early 1st Century, and thereafter there were a number of early christian documents and proponents of the christian message that pre-date the formalisation of doctrine within the holy catholic church.

I am reading the Gospel of Mary at the moment (Karen King) a very early christian text, verified from 3 independent sources, including the coptic and Nag Hammadi library that expounds? a beautiful but different type of christianity from that later canonised by the Catholic and Early Christian Faiths.

As to whether Jesus was God incarnate or was resurrected on the 3rd day is a matter of faith, but his existence from independent sources has been verified to the point where the evidence that he existed is stronger than many other historical figures.

If anyone wants to know about the Gospel of Mary (it really is interesting in what it says about authority and finding God within, and not being burdened by rules and dogma is actually quite interesting) I'm happy to outline its main points.

Mary