skeptic
12th January 2006, 12:09 PM
I might mention we really had a large turn out.
Several have indicated an interest to what was presented at our Post Mormon lecture series on the History of Nephi Johnson.
The lecture was presented by a direct descendant of Nephi Johnson who is a social Mormon and wishes to remain anonymous. I personally found him to be a person of integrity who like Nephi Johnson was willing to tell the truth. It is noted in Juanita Brooks book how Nephi Johnson carried his horrible guilt to his death bed, expressing this guilt in some of his last words as Blood! Blood! Blood! Nephi Johnson was very young at the time, around the age of 18 to 24. History records indicate his participation in the massacre was to manage the Indians for the benefit of the plan initiated by the local Church leadership.
At the presentation we were also honored to have a prominent Utah historian present. He stated he got to know Juanita Brooks personally and found her to have the highest integrity. That she had an opportunity to interview Nephi Johnson at a much earlier age but she stated unfortunately she was more interested in “boys” at the time being single.
As a side note: I asked this prominent Utah Historian if he thought Juanita had destroyed any historical documents. He stated in knowing Juanita Brooks personally he did not believe this. In reading Juanita’s book it’s of my opinion that what she has already presented could not be more damaging. Recently there has been discussion about this on the rfm board.
Back to the lecture- Nephi Johnson's descendant told us because for fear of his personal safety, both from Judge Cradlebaugh and his 200 troops that were coming through the area looking participants in the massacre and from the Mormon leadership for his testimony at the second trial of John D. Lee. See his testimony below. Nephi Johnson hid out in the Kanab Utah area.
Nephi Johnson’s testimony was damaging in two ways from the aspect 1) It debunked the Mormon claims that the Indians in the Fillmore area were poisoned by members of the emigrant party. That if they were outraged they would have participated in the massacre. And 2) Johnson’s testimony helps to reveal the religious fanatical culture of fear and obedience created by Brigham Young’s Reformation teachings.
One can read about Nephi Johnson’s testimony and the MMM by reading early Utah Historian Josiah F. Gibbs research online at http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/meadowscontents.htm
Relative information from Gibbs research pertaining to our lecture posted below:
At Corn creek, fourteen miles southwesterly from Fillmore, the emigrants laid over a day or two to permit their work animals and cows which they were taking to California to graze on the then luxuriant pasturage of that locality. During their sojourn at Corn creek one of the emigrants' animals died. A portion of the carcass was eaten by some of the Pahvan Indians, who yet have an encampment near the creek. It is reported that four of the Indians died, presumably from the effects of eating the diseased meat.
That incident has been worn threadbare by Mormon and pro-Mormon historians, who charge that the emigrants poisoned the carcass for the express purpose of killing some of the Indians.
And those same historians also assert that, as an act of revenge, the Indians followed the emigrants to the Meadows and there exterminated them. Those historians also charge that the emigrants poisoned the water of a spring with the purpose, as is alleged, of killing more Indians.
(As a side note Gibbs addresses the spring poisoning claim the Mormons use to claim give reason for the Indians being upset and wanting to attack the emigrant train.)
The nearest spring is a half mile or more north of where the emigrants were camped, and twice that distance from the old camp ground of the Indians. The spring is in the nature of a slough in soil highly charged with alkali, of which the water contains an appreciable quantity. Not even an Indian would drink the water from that spring while the pure mountain water of Corn creek was within a few rods of where the Pahvans were camped. It would have required many pounds of poison to have been effective on life, and the emigrants would have poisoned their cattle, which were grazing on the bottom land near the slough.
And at the second trial of John D. Lee, in 1876, Nephi Johnson, a devout Mormon and Indian interpreter, forever disarmed the lying Mormon historians by declaring that no Pahvan Indians were present at the massacre.
Gibbs research goes on to state: The fact is, western Indians, when pressed for food, eat the flesh of diseased animals; and that the Pahvans knew that the emigrants were blameless in the matter of the death of four of their braves is abundantly proved by the fact that they did not molest the strangers.
(Note: Adjacent to page 178 of Juanita Brooks book on the MMM is a picture of John D. Lee’s attorney William W. Bishop among others. Bishop asks the following questions of Nephi Johnson.)
TESTIMONY OF NEPHI JOHNSON-SECOND TRIAL OF LEE
Question by Bishop - State whether you were under any compulsion (to go to the Meadows).
Ans.- I didn't think it was safe for me to object.
Ques.- Explain what you mean, that is what I want. Where was the danger - who was the danger to come from if you objected - from Haight or those around him - from the Indians, or from the emigrants?
Ans.- From the military officers.
Ques.- Where?
Ans.- At Cedar City.
Ques.- Was Haight one of those military officers?
Aris.- Yes, sir.
Ques.- Who was the highest military officer in Cedar City at that time?
Ans.- I think it was Isaac C. Haight.
Ques.- You thought it would not be safe to refuse; had you any reason to fear danger - has any person ever been injured for not obeying, or anything of that kind?
Ans.- I don't want to answer.
Ques.- It is necessary to the safety of the man I am defending, and I therefore insist upon an answer. Had any person been injured for not obeying?
Ans.- Yes, sir, they had.
Question by Bishop - State whether you were under any compulsion (to go to the Meadows).
Ans.- I didn't think it was safe for me to object.
Ques.- Explain what you mean, that is what I want. Where was the danger - who was the danger to come from if you objected - from Haight or those around him - from the Indians, or from the emigrants?
Ans.- From the military officers.
Ques.- Where?
Ans.- At Cedar City.
Ques.- Was Haight one of those military officers?
Aris.- Yes, sir.
Ques.- Who was the highest military officer in Cedar City at that time?
Ans.- I think it was Isaac C. Haight.
Ques.- You thought it would not be safe to refuse; had you any reason to fear danger - has any person ever been injured for not obeying, or anything of that kind?
Ans.- I don't want to answer.
Ques.- It is necessary to the safety of the man I am defending, and I therefore insist upon an answer. Had any person been injured for not obeying?
Ans.- Yes, sir, they had.
Question by Howard - Were you acquainted with the Indians - the Pah Vant (Pahvan) Indians?
Ans.- Yes, sir; somewhat acquainted.
Ques.- Were any of the Pah Vant Indians down there?
Ans.- I didn't see any.
During the night of the day of the massacre President Isaac C. Haight and Bishop William H. Dame arrived from Cedar and Parowan, respectively, and camped at Hamblin's ranch. The next morning, with John D. Lee, they visited the scene of the carnage where sixty men, forty women and about thirty children were lying naked on the ground, having been stripped of their clothing and jewelry.
Haight, Dame and other leading elders made speeches, the substance of which may be gathered from answers by Nephi Johnson to questions asked by W. W. Bishop, Lee's attorney.
Ques.- Is it not a fact that after the property was all gathered up at the Meadows, and you were ready to start for Iron Springs, that speeches were made to the men present, by those in authority, in which speeches you were ordered to keep it a secret forever?
Ans.- There were a great many speeches made.
Ques.- At the Meadows, before you left there, was it not told you in a speech then made to you, that it must be kept a secret; that it would be best to keep silent? Were not you so advised by your leaders?
Ans.- Yes, sir.
Another relative side note:
Juanita Brooks in her book on the MMM reveals on page 242-243 Appendix V the LDS Church’s account of what happened at Mountain Meadows.
“Journal History of the Church”, September 11, 1857:
The following account of the Mountain Meadows affair was written by Geo. A. Smith and James McKnight at Cedar City, Aug. 6, 1858, from what they considered the most authentic sources:
On Friday evening, Wm. H. Dame, Isaac C. Haight and a party of men started out for the scene of hostilities to endeavor to put a stop to the fight, arriving there about day light on Saturday morning. The Indians had killed the entire company, with the exception of a few small children.
SoUtSkeptic
Several have indicated an interest to what was presented at our Post Mormon lecture series on the History of Nephi Johnson.
The lecture was presented by a direct descendant of Nephi Johnson who is a social Mormon and wishes to remain anonymous. I personally found him to be a person of integrity who like Nephi Johnson was willing to tell the truth. It is noted in Juanita Brooks book how Nephi Johnson carried his horrible guilt to his death bed, expressing this guilt in some of his last words as Blood! Blood! Blood! Nephi Johnson was very young at the time, around the age of 18 to 24. History records indicate his participation in the massacre was to manage the Indians for the benefit of the plan initiated by the local Church leadership.
At the presentation we were also honored to have a prominent Utah historian present. He stated he got to know Juanita Brooks personally and found her to have the highest integrity. That she had an opportunity to interview Nephi Johnson at a much earlier age but she stated unfortunately she was more interested in “boys” at the time being single.
As a side note: I asked this prominent Utah Historian if he thought Juanita had destroyed any historical documents. He stated in knowing Juanita Brooks personally he did not believe this. In reading Juanita’s book it’s of my opinion that what she has already presented could not be more damaging. Recently there has been discussion about this on the rfm board.
Back to the lecture- Nephi Johnson's descendant told us because for fear of his personal safety, both from Judge Cradlebaugh and his 200 troops that were coming through the area looking participants in the massacre and from the Mormon leadership for his testimony at the second trial of John D. Lee. See his testimony below. Nephi Johnson hid out in the Kanab Utah area.
Nephi Johnson’s testimony was damaging in two ways from the aspect 1) It debunked the Mormon claims that the Indians in the Fillmore area were poisoned by members of the emigrant party. That if they were outraged they would have participated in the massacre. And 2) Johnson’s testimony helps to reveal the religious fanatical culture of fear and obedience created by Brigham Young’s Reformation teachings.
One can read about Nephi Johnson’s testimony and the MMM by reading early Utah Historian Josiah F. Gibbs research online at http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/meadowscontents.htm
Relative information from Gibbs research pertaining to our lecture posted below:
At Corn creek, fourteen miles southwesterly from Fillmore, the emigrants laid over a day or two to permit their work animals and cows which they were taking to California to graze on the then luxuriant pasturage of that locality. During their sojourn at Corn creek one of the emigrants' animals died. A portion of the carcass was eaten by some of the Pahvan Indians, who yet have an encampment near the creek. It is reported that four of the Indians died, presumably from the effects of eating the diseased meat.
That incident has been worn threadbare by Mormon and pro-Mormon historians, who charge that the emigrants poisoned the carcass for the express purpose of killing some of the Indians.
And those same historians also assert that, as an act of revenge, the Indians followed the emigrants to the Meadows and there exterminated them. Those historians also charge that the emigrants poisoned the water of a spring with the purpose, as is alleged, of killing more Indians.
(As a side note Gibbs addresses the spring poisoning claim the Mormons use to claim give reason for the Indians being upset and wanting to attack the emigrant train.)
The nearest spring is a half mile or more north of where the emigrants were camped, and twice that distance from the old camp ground of the Indians. The spring is in the nature of a slough in soil highly charged with alkali, of which the water contains an appreciable quantity. Not even an Indian would drink the water from that spring while the pure mountain water of Corn creek was within a few rods of where the Pahvans were camped. It would have required many pounds of poison to have been effective on life, and the emigrants would have poisoned their cattle, which were grazing on the bottom land near the slough.
And at the second trial of John D. Lee, in 1876, Nephi Johnson, a devout Mormon and Indian interpreter, forever disarmed the lying Mormon historians by declaring that no Pahvan Indians were present at the massacre.
Gibbs research goes on to state: The fact is, western Indians, when pressed for food, eat the flesh of diseased animals; and that the Pahvans knew that the emigrants were blameless in the matter of the death of four of their braves is abundantly proved by the fact that they did not molest the strangers.
(Note: Adjacent to page 178 of Juanita Brooks book on the MMM is a picture of John D. Lee’s attorney William W. Bishop among others. Bishop asks the following questions of Nephi Johnson.)
TESTIMONY OF NEPHI JOHNSON-SECOND TRIAL OF LEE
Question by Bishop - State whether you were under any compulsion (to go to the Meadows).
Ans.- I didn't think it was safe for me to object.
Ques.- Explain what you mean, that is what I want. Where was the danger - who was the danger to come from if you objected - from Haight or those around him - from the Indians, or from the emigrants?
Ans.- From the military officers.
Ques.- Where?
Ans.- At Cedar City.
Ques.- Was Haight one of those military officers?
Aris.- Yes, sir.
Ques.- Who was the highest military officer in Cedar City at that time?
Ans.- I think it was Isaac C. Haight.
Ques.- You thought it would not be safe to refuse; had you any reason to fear danger - has any person ever been injured for not obeying, or anything of that kind?
Ans.- I don't want to answer.
Ques.- It is necessary to the safety of the man I am defending, and I therefore insist upon an answer. Had any person been injured for not obeying?
Ans.- Yes, sir, they had.
Question by Bishop - State whether you were under any compulsion (to go to the Meadows).
Ans.- I didn't think it was safe for me to object.
Ques.- Explain what you mean, that is what I want. Where was the danger - who was the danger to come from if you objected - from Haight or those around him - from the Indians, or from the emigrants?
Ans.- From the military officers.
Ques.- Where?
Ans.- At Cedar City.
Ques.- Was Haight one of those military officers?
Aris.- Yes, sir.
Ques.- Who was the highest military officer in Cedar City at that time?
Ans.- I think it was Isaac C. Haight.
Ques.- You thought it would not be safe to refuse; had you any reason to fear danger - has any person ever been injured for not obeying, or anything of that kind?
Ans.- I don't want to answer.
Ques.- It is necessary to the safety of the man I am defending, and I therefore insist upon an answer. Had any person been injured for not obeying?
Ans.- Yes, sir, they had.
Question by Howard - Were you acquainted with the Indians - the Pah Vant (Pahvan) Indians?
Ans.- Yes, sir; somewhat acquainted.
Ques.- Were any of the Pah Vant Indians down there?
Ans.- I didn't see any.
During the night of the day of the massacre President Isaac C. Haight and Bishop William H. Dame arrived from Cedar and Parowan, respectively, and camped at Hamblin's ranch. The next morning, with John D. Lee, they visited the scene of the carnage where sixty men, forty women and about thirty children were lying naked on the ground, having been stripped of their clothing and jewelry.
Haight, Dame and other leading elders made speeches, the substance of which may be gathered from answers by Nephi Johnson to questions asked by W. W. Bishop, Lee's attorney.
Ques.- Is it not a fact that after the property was all gathered up at the Meadows, and you were ready to start for Iron Springs, that speeches were made to the men present, by those in authority, in which speeches you were ordered to keep it a secret forever?
Ans.- There were a great many speeches made.
Ques.- At the Meadows, before you left there, was it not told you in a speech then made to you, that it must be kept a secret; that it would be best to keep silent? Were not you so advised by your leaders?
Ans.- Yes, sir.
Another relative side note:
Juanita Brooks in her book on the MMM reveals on page 242-243 Appendix V the LDS Church’s account of what happened at Mountain Meadows.
“Journal History of the Church”, September 11, 1857:
The following account of the Mountain Meadows affair was written by Geo. A. Smith and James McKnight at Cedar City, Aug. 6, 1858, from what they considered the most authentic sources:
On Friday evening, Wm. H. Dame, Isaac C. Haight and a party of men started out for the scene of hostilities to endeavor to put a stop to the fight, arriving there about day light on Saturday morning. The Indians had killed the entire company, with the exception of a few small children.
SoUtSkeptic