question about changes in temple ceremony

[wileycoyote]

I've heard that the temple ceremony changed around 1990 but I don't know the details. Can anyone fill me in? This is one topic that when I mentioned it to my wife she flat out screamed in my face that "temple ordinances don't change!" It is also something that she can verify by asking her parents. I've also heard that endowments were performed at the Kirtland temple, but the church denies that now. I've found info about washings and annointings in prep for endowments at Kirtland but not the actual edowment. Does anyone have a reference? Thanks

[silverfox]

I've heard that the temple ceremony changed around 1990 but I don't know the details. Can anyone fill me in? This is one topic that when I mentioned it to my wife she flat out screamed in my face that "temple ordinances don't change!" It is also something that she can verify by asking her parents. I've also heard that endowments were performed at the Kirtland temple, but the church denies that now. I've found info about washings and annointings in prep for endowments at Kirtland but not the actual edowment. Does anyone have a reference? Thanks

Check out this link

http://www.geocities.com/themulester/priorend.htm

Also, I understand the annointing and washing ordinace was changed just weeks ago. Changes include members putting on a full piece garment in privacy. The shield cape thing is placed over that. Only the forehead is dabbed or the top of the head, not sure. No more touching of the body. No more nakedness.

I confirmed this with a TBM friend who recently did temple work for her family. She would only confirm that it had changed and there is no more nudeness. My FIL is a temple worker and answered yes that the ordinance had changed recently but didn't offer details.

I KNOW the ordinance change after 1990. I attended both before and after and gruesome rituals were removed. There was a lot of publicity including news articles regarding the changes. The link above has more info.

[wileycoyote]

I was dissapointed when I first saw the cash registers in the temple. They just seemed to be out of place from what I had always been taught to expect in the temple. I don't think there is a word to describe how I feel now. I want to know the truth, but this one sucks.

[silverfox]

I was dissapointed when I first saw the cash registers in the temple. They just seemed to be out of place from what I had always been taught to expect in the temple. I don't think there is a word to describe how I feel now. I want to know the truth, but this one sucks.

Great observation! I always was put off by how by how everything had a price in the temple...the apron, the dress, the shoes. Like you said, it seemed out of place for such a supposedly "celestial" environment. Even the cafeteria - just weird.

[Born Free]

Great observation! I always was put off by how by how everything had a price in the temple...the apron, the dress, the shoes. Like you said, it seemed out of place for such a supposedly "celestial" environment. Even the cafeteria - just weird.

Where is the wierdness here?

Things have a price. Even the building costs to build.

My sense is that what you both make comment upon, says more about the expectations that we were whipped up to, prior to approaching the temple.

I would love to see a "customer satisfaction rating"! Please rate on a scale 1 -5 how you felt about:
Cash registers.
Aryan Christs in all the artwork.
"Cut your throat and disembowl" oaths.
Silly clothes and sillier undergear.
Temple worker politics
Temple sessions so boring that if you could bottle its seditive effect, you would make a fortune

For me it is the expectations that are the problem, but something that Mormonism sufffers from all around. Great myth, but they just falls so short, so consistently.

Daryl

[silverfox]

Where is the wierdness here?

Things have a price. Even the building costs to build.

My sense is that what you both make comment upon, says more about the expectations that we were whipped up to, prior to approaching the temple.

Daryl

It just seems that the church hits you up for money from all kinds of angles. Tithing to build temples, churches, etc. Fast for the needy, ward budgets for maintaining the ward. Volunteers for every little thing they can get away with (including Desert Industries missions...do they have those in Australia, btw?) You walk into a temple to do temple work and have to pay for this that and the other. It just seems it is never enough. You give what you can and they still want more.

I've been involved in a few religions here and there. I've never seen any church request so much money as the LDS church. The subject may come up in a sermon or there might be a bakesale or something but nothing like the LDS church where it seems you are constantly nagged about money, money, money. So my experiences with other churches may have created the expectations I have regarding $$ within the LDS church.

[Born Free]

It just seems that the church hits you up for money from all kinds of angles. Tithing to build temples, churches, etc. Fast for the needy, ward budgets for maintaining the ward. Volunteers for every little thing they can get away with (including Desert Industries missions...do they have those in Australia, btw?) You walk into a temple to do temple work and have to pay for this that and the other. It just seems it is never enough. You give what you can and they still want more.

I've been involved in a few religions here and there. I've never seen any church request so much money as the LDS church. The subject may come up in a sermon or there might be a bakesale or something but nothing like the LDS church where it seems you are constantly nagged about money, money, money. So my experiences with other churches may have created the expectations I have regarding $$ within the LDS church.

Silverfox,

Sorry, it is so many years (a bit of a Freudian slip there. I initially wrote tears :eek: ) since we left, I cannot tell you what they have here, and beside, we were in a Mission and missed out on a lot of the programs available within the Stakes (thank goodness).

As I bobbed around in the pool at 10.30 last night to cool before going to bed (it is scorching here), I was thinking about this issue of the aura of the temple, and why it so frequently disappoints. A friend of my mothers, who must be in her 70s, has just rejoined the Church and is looking forward to going to the Temple which she could never do while her non-member hubby was alive.

All her daughters are dismayed, but she seems delighted. I was wondering how she will find the Temple ordinances when she finally gets there.

I am amazed at her actions, but feel at that age (amd with failing health) she is entitled to whatever helps her make it through the night. If she were younger I would engage her as she is very well read and quite intelligent.

Daryl

[silverfox]

Silverfox,

As I bobbed around in the pool at 10.30 last night to cool before going to bed (it is scorching here),

Daryl

Hey! I don't appreciate you RUBBING IT in that you are enjoying sunny delightful scorching weather while in a pool while I am sitting here watching it SNOW. I am jealous! :D

[peter_mary]

I've heard that the temple ceremony changed around 1990 but I don't know the details. Can anyone fill me in? This is one topic that when I mentioned it to my wife she flat out screamed in my face that "temple ordinances don't change!" It is also something that she can verify by asking her parents. I've also heard that endowments were performed at the Kirtland temple, but the church denies that now. I've found info about washings and annointings in prep for endowments at Kirtland but not the actual edowment. Does anyone have a reference? Thanks

I found this site several months ago, and because I was endowed nearly 20 years ago, I remember WELL the parts of the ceremony that were removed, as shown in this transcript. This is the comparison between pre and post 1990 versions of the temple ceremony, and they do beg the question, "How could temple ceremonies, that were divinely inspired, change?"

http://www.lds-mormon.com/compare.shtml/

Go check it out and read it carefully, especially the parts that have been "redlined."

Bow your head and say, "Yes."

Paul

[noodle]

I found this site several months ago, and because I was endowed nearly 20 years ago, I remember WELL the parts of the ceremony that were removed, as shown in this transcript. This is the comparison between pre and post 1990 versions of the temple ceremony, and they do beg the question, "How could temple ceremonies, that were divinely inspired, change?"

http://www.lds-mormon.com/compare.shtml/

Go check it out and read it carefully, especially the parts that have been "redlined."

Bow your head and say, "Yes."

Paul

You know, I've looked at those comparisons on several occasions over the years. Is it just me, or does it seem more and more strange? I went pre-1990, so didn't see the "softer" version. ;)

[peter_mary]

I've heard that the temple ceremony changed around 1990 but I don't know the details. Can anyone fill me in? This is one topic that when I mentioned it to my wife she flat out screamed in my face that "temple ordinances don't change!" It is also something that she can verify by asking her parents. I've also heard that endowments were performed at the Kirtland temple, but the church denies that now. I've found info about washings and annointings in prep for endowments at Kirtland but not the actual edowment. Does anyone have a reference? Thanks


The following link has a complete update on the new Washings & Annointings ceremony. Darn it, no one gets to show their privates to old people in the temple any more!

http://www.josephlied.com/

It is mind boggling to me that Joseph could have gotten the temple ceremony so "wrong," and that we just have to keep correcting it. Or are we corrupting it again? :rolleyes: I'm a wicked, wicked person!

Paul

[peter_mary]

I've also heard that endowments were performed at the Kirtland temple, but the church denies that now. I've found info about washings and annointings in prep for endowments at Kirtland but not the actual edowment. Does anyone have a reference? Thanks

You might consider picking up "The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship" by David John Buerger. It's a very readable and interesting historical view on the history of Mormon temple worship, and the manner in which it has evolved. It is a history book, by the way, and is not striving to discredit anything...in fact, as I recall, the author is a member in good standing, but I could be wrong...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1560851767/qid=1107978177/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-8228666-5731223?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

You also might check out the review posted here:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/buerger.shtml

Paul

[peter_mary]

For those of you who either left the Church before 1990, or obtained your endowments after 1990, the following link might prove interesting in understanding the changes to the temple ceremony...

http://www.lds-mormon.com/whytemplechanges.shtml

Paul