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lunaverse
14th May 2006, 09:18 PM
My parents have figured out where I live. And they came to my house just now.

Sorry for spamming, but this is really emotional, and this is probably the only community who would really "get it".

A few years ago, I had decided to send my son to live with his dad for another year. My parents then sued for custody. After a year, a few appearance in court, and a really rough ride, the thing just sort of fizzled out. However, I more or less "divorced" my parents, cutting off contact as much as I possibly could. This came shortly after a few creepy stalker-esque incidents that made it clear to me they had no concept of boundries.

At that time, I told them they were never to come onto my property again without my invitation. I resolved to myself I would call the police and even get a restraining order if that's what it took.

I told them that the only contact they could have with my son would be twice a year, summer and Christmas, at family gatherings.

Since then, I have moved twice, once when buying this house. I have changed my first name legally, mainly because I wanted a different first name (I had gone by my middle name since childhood, and "Luna" as a nickname with friends for the last few years). I have intentionally not given them my address, or told them about the name change.

Recently, I've been making small steps to mend the relationship via email, by discussing whatever topics I feel comfortable with... usually covering mildly religious debate, since that's "safe" ground for me... Talking about personal events in my life... well, too much of my personal life was laid out like a discected frog on the court room floor for me to feel comfortable exposing my actual life to them.

I had told my mother I didn't like talking to her on the phone, because, while I have learned to stand up to everyone else in the world, when she's on the phone, my mind freezes. I can't say "no" to her, and I can't think straight, because she's the one that raised me and created all the buttons, so all those passivity buttons get pushed when I talk to her.

And the last time I spoke to my dad on the phone, prior to today, he YELLED at me when I told him the reason I didn't want to meet them in person was because I didn't trust them.... And the spent 15 minutes interupting and yelling at me until he hung up.

So my mom calls me on Thursday. I answer, because it says "unknown caller", and my son and housemate had been gone a little too long, and I thought it might be them.

As usual, I freeze up on the phone. She asked if they could see me this weekend, and instead of saying "no" (remember, I can't tell her no?), I say my usual "maybe". Now, my mom should have learned 10 years ago that my "maybe" almost always means no. It's my default "no" in lue of an actual "no", to avoid saying that forbidden word to my mother.

I had a work party planned on Saturday, where a bunch of friends were scheduled to come over and dig a big hole in my yard, after which I would feed them and we'd all have some fun hanging out. And being an introvert, I knew I'd need Sunday to recover from the social event, the heavy labor, and the general stress in my life right now. And the last thing I want is a repeat of the LAST time I sat in a resturant with them... it involved some tears, slightly too-loud voices, and my son and I leaving without having finished eating.

So the answer really was... No.

A more emotionally healthy me would have just said it, right there. My "maybe" was followed with a request by my mother to call her back and let her know before Saturday morning. I couldn't say no, right? So I said Yes.

But of course I didn't call her back.

So Saturday, my mom calls and leaves 4 voice messages. She had sent two emails (which I didn't see until today). The emails included some talk about how my dad is going into surgery soon, and wouldn't I feel terrible if he died without him getting to see his grandson again, and that I should get over my hate and rebellion and show some compassion for once.

My dad called this morning, and again I accidentally answered it because it came from a local area code. (My parents live on the other side of the state.) We actually had a fairly decent conversation for about 30 minutes, during which I didn't feel too uncomfortable. For some reason, saying "no" to my dad is just a little easier. I was able to tell him flat out that we would not be going to dinner tonight.

Nevertheless, a few hours later, I got a knock at my door... and there stood my dad, holding out a plastic toy bug container with a bow. "Happy Mother's Day" he said, handed it to me, and turned to leave.

"How did you know where I live?" I asked.

"It isn't that hard to find out," he answered.

"What about privacy rights?" I asked.

"Oh, it's not illegal, in fact..." and he started into some reference to something political he knew about. I stopped him.

"I don't mean legal privacy rights. I know it's easy, and perfectly legal to research this sort of thing. I'm talking about choosing to respect a person's desire to be left alone."

He didn't seem to understand. I explained that most people would assume that if an address wasn't given to them by the person who lived there, that the person didn't WANT them to have their address.

He said something about "How else are we supposed to give you a Mother's Day present?" and left.

I had wondered how my mother knew I had bamboo growing here when she asked me for shoots in an email last month. I figured I must have mentioned it to some family member at Christmas, but I had tried to be as non-specific about my personal life as possible there. Now I know. It's because they've BEEN to my house before today.

Am I wrong in feeling stalked? Stalked by my PARENTS? Does that even happen?

Now I don't know what to do... Just when I thought we were getting somewhere... Sure it was slow, but we had some common ground started, as scant as it was.

My parents are getting old. Their health is failing. I can understand that. But what they can't understand is why I don't trust them, why I keep them at a distance. And I don't know how to make them understand. It's like I'm speaking English, and they're speaking English, but somehow they're aliens and their minds can't possibly comprehend what I have to say.

It's twice as frustrating, because I used to have an alien mind just like theirs... I used to know the language. If I was still an alien like them, we'd all get along swimmingly... me silently resenting something I couldn't quite name, and them manipulating me and my son, and all of us happily going to the Celestial Kingdom together forever.

Tonight a new emotion has entered the mix, and that's pity. I'm sorry for them that they don't understand, know enough, to do the things they need to do to heal the relationship and get what they want. That their actions tonight have added a renewed desire for distance. Because if they can't understand the BIG obvious boundries, how are they going to handle the subtle boundries that come with more frequent interaction?

I mean, they're my parents. It would be nice to have them at least in my life a little bit. Even though we no longer have the Church in common any more (which is actually a really big thing) we still have a few other things in common. It is a tragedy that they are missing out on my son's growing up, on my life news, and that they are getting older and who knows how much longer they will be here.

But I also can't have people in my life who treat me like a child, who still think they are in authority over me enough to use the phrase "rebellion against my parents", who ignore boundries, who can't leave me alone. Not to mention my son, who has been very hurt and confused by this whole process.

So that's it, that's my rant. That's my happy mother's day present, to have my relaxing, restful Sunday turned into creep-out, saddness, and confusion.

Luna

helemon
14th May 2006, 09:40 PM
So that's it, that's my rant. That's my happy mother's day present, to have my relaxing, restful Sunday turned into creep-out, saddness, and confusion.

Luna

Wow! I am glad that I cannot relate. My parents are always talking about their church callings and church related things and sending me church books or pictures but for the most part they pretty much do not discuss the religion issue. I know it is probably causing them a lot of worry and concern, but I can't live my life according to what they believe just to make them happy.

I am also lucky in the fact that my parents can't easily drive over to my house. They live over a thousand miles away. I think if I were in UT I might feel more pressure to conform and go along in order to keep peace.

I don't understand how your parents thought they could win custody over your former husband? I take it neither of you are members anymore?

It is sad that the church makes its member think and behave this way. I feel for your parents. They are clearly hurting as are you but the only solution they see to end their pain is to force you back in line rather than respect your choices. They see your choices as something that will create a permanent separation from them for eternity but they don't realize how their actions are creating this separation between you now.

puff
15th May 2006, 01:37 AM
luckily my parents are non members and we have always been friends ,its really sad that his has happened in your life , unfortunatly many parents presume ownership over thier children and this is how it ends up , hope things improve

Born Free
15th May 2006, 02:05 AM
Luna,

Wow, that sounds like it would sure take the edge off Mother's Day in a BIG way. :Puking :Crazy: :Puking

I am a bit rushed now to respond in any depth to a very pained posting, so for now I will say:

Glad to hear from you again, and
Sorry it is on such a painful issue.

I will return and engage you later.

Daryl

miss taken
15th May 2006, 03:30 AM
Luna, can I give my opinion. I don't think you will like it. Ignore me if you don't.

My opinion is that they are your parents. Forgive them and make the most of the time you have with them. If you don't then I have a feeling you will regret it one day.

Your dad brought over a mothers day present, sounds like they are trying to build bridges. They are your flesh and blood. Can't you be proactive and go visit, make them a part of your life. Make their grandson a part of their life. I bet they are heartbroken that they get to see him so little.


I have never had an easy relationship with my mother, my husband has little tolerance for her manipulative ways. But she is old and getting frailer by the year. Basically she is a lonely lady, too lacking in confidence to get out there, so she is very, very needy when it comes to her children, and she has never quite forgiven me for moving away from the immediate vicinity, and that I am a bit more mouthy than my very quiet brother, who can do no wrong.

I am making the effort to see her at least once a week, and I am making her so happy. Her only grandson (my son) brings such joy into her life, and she loves him dearly. I would be doing him a disservice to try and put a barrier up.

I think your parents are worth forgiving, and building a relationship with, and I don't think you will regret a loving, kind course of action in the long run.

Just my twopennyworth...

Mary

dogzilla
15th May 2006, 06:54 AM
It's twice as frustrating, because I used to have an alien mind just like theirs... I used to know the language. If I was still an alien like them, we'd all get along swimmingly... me silently resenting something I couldn't quite name, and them manipulating me and my son, and all of us happily going to the Celestial Kingdom together forever.

Tonight a new emotion has entered the mix, and that's pity. I'm sorry for them that they don't understand, know enough, to do the things they need to do to heal the relationship and get what they want. That their actions tonight have added a renewed desire for distance. Because if they can't understand the BIG obvious boundries, how are they going to handle the subtle boundries that come with more frequent interaction?

I mean, they're my parents. It would be nice to have them at least in my life a little bit. Even though we no longer have the Church in common any more (which is actually a really big thing) we still have a few other things in common. It is a tragedy that they are missing out on my son's growing up, on my life news, and that they are getting older and who knows how much longer they will be here.

But I also can't have people in my life who treat me like a child, who still think they are in authority over me enough to use the phrase "rebellion against my parents", who ignore boundries, who can't leave me alone. Not to mention my son, who has been very hurt and confused by this whole process.


Boy, can I relate to this. In fact, I'm writing a book about it. I may PM you later, as I find time, because I think we are in the same boat with our folks. For now, though, let me recommend this book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0465016901/sr=8-1/qid=1147697587/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-6398548-9432152?%5Fencoding=UTF8) to you. I used to have a quote from it in my sig, "Disrespect is a weapon of the weak and a defense against one's own despised and unwanted feelings."

I'll be in touch Luna. I get it.

peter_mary
15th May 2006, 07:49 AM
Luna,

Holy crap, but that's an odd tale. Thanks for sharing.

There are few relationships in our world that are harder to sort out than those we have with family. Even when those relationships are GOOD they're weird. When they're WEIRD, they're REALLY weird.

Boundaries are healthy and necessary. I can certainly appreciate the mess of feelings you must have as you see those boundaries so clearly, and yet your parents just don't seem to get it. Knowing that they don't speak your language is just all the more frustrating, because you probably realize deep down inside that they'll NEVER understand your boundaries, and subsequently you may never be able to establish the trust (which is a boundary-dependent phenomenon) necessary to re-engage.

That sucks, Luna. :(

silverfox
15th May 2006, 08:13 AM
Oh boy can I relate! My parents are TOXIC. They are nonmembers so religion didn't and doesn't play a huge part in our differences. But they are maipulating and controlling and with a lot of issues.

I don't have the time to post a lot right now but will try to reply more later.

I think you are right in wanting to protect your child from this kind of behavior. They may not be trying to mend anything. This may all be about control and manipulation and nothing to do with love or respect. I don't know this for a fact in your case, though, but it was in my case.

I got a lot of crap from those on the outside looking in about how I chose to cut off my parents from my life. I protected my children and myself and I have absolutely no regrets. If they die tomorrow I can sleep at night. I know I did everything I could to try to allow them to have a "normal" relationship with my kids and me. That's not what they wanted. They just wanted control and to make THEMSELVES feel better.

I didn't want to take the chance of allowing them to do more damage than I was capable of repairing.

Did my kids miss out? Hell, no. My parents would have caused too much drama and issues. It was best for my kids and me to be separated from them.

You have to make your own decision regarding your parents. Manipulation only causes guilt, which, IMO, makes us react to things just to feel better and then the real issues become sugarcoated. But left unresolved they rear their ungly head again.

More later. Sorry for the unorganized ramble. Hopefully I can contribute more later when time allows.

lunaverse
15th May 2006, 09:57 AM
Thanks everyone for the response.

I'm feeling a little better today. I still haven't formulated a plan of action, which is my way... Formulate the plan, then act and feel better.

MissTaken, thank you for your opinion. :) I'm not really looking for everyone to agree with me and get on the comiseration bandwagon. That's all good, too, but I appreciate honesty more. Indeed, that is one half of my feelings... Regret that my parents are like this... I don't keep unhealthy people in my life, people who cause me drama. The only exception so far has been my own son, who has a lot of problems and creates a lot of drama, but he's my son, a minor, and I'm still responsible for him. (Not to mention that my past unhealthy ways made him what he is, so I'm the one that needs to clean up the mess.)

At any rate, I appreciate your views. If I do choose to mend with them, it will be highly conditional, and I want to be 100% sure it's not out of guilt. Guilt (of this sort) is a poor motivator that leads to resentment.

Dogzilla, thanks so much. That book description? OMG, that is so RIGHT on. I was a gifted kid who was homeschooled and pushed into overachieving. Part of me is grateful for the opportunities, the other part is damaged. As a teen, I had a major identity crisis, as I had based ALL of my self esteem on my achievements, so when I stopped achieving, I crumbled. I've only recently been getting over it. I will add that book to my wishlist, and purchase it soon.

PM, you have hit the nail on the head. Usually I can calm down when I ask myself, "What's the worst that can happen?" ... Well in this case, the worst is that they could take me back to court based on something I or my son says, or they can cause more drama with my ex, or they can screw with my son's head a little more and even could convince him to become Mormon again.

All of these are actually pretty bad. So the trust thing is a really big deal.

Silver, my friends are actually highly supportive of the decision I've made to divorce my family. In fact if anything, they're not enough understanding of the desire I have that things be right again. I hang out with a lot of geeks and alternate lifestyle types, so I think many fully have a perspective of what it's like to be too different from your family.

I wonder if family counseling would be a good path? I know my parents would be open to it, I think they would even pay for it. And any good counselor would see right through them, and also be able to give me an objective view of my own actions. In the past, I haven't wanted to waste my time on it, but now....?

Luna

dogzilla
15th May 2006, 10:32 AM
Dogzilla, thanks so much. That book description? OMG, that is so RIGHT on. I was a gifted kid who was homeschooled and pushed into overachieving. Part of me is grateful for the opportunities, the other part is damaged. As a teen, I had a major identity crisis, as I had based ALL of my self esteem on my achievements, so when I stopped achieving, I crumbled. I've only recently been getting over it. I will add that book to my wishlist, and purchase it soon.
Luna

:: grin ::

Actually, the author means a different kind of gift than what you are thinking. Your parents gave you a "gift" when they treated you with such narcissim. I've got to find some things in files at home for you, so I'll will write you this evening when all my thoughts are in one place.

lunaverse
15th May 2006, 12:36 PM
:: grin ::

Actually, the author means a different kind of gift than what you are thinking. Your parents gave you a "gift" when they treated you with such narcissim. I've got to find some things in files at home for you, so I'll will write you this evening when all my thoughts are in one place.

Hi DG. Some of the reviews seem to point to the other kind of giftedness, so I guess I'll get the book and see. :) I think in either case, it would apply, although I'm not too sure how well narcissism applies to my parents. I've never really thought about it, I'd have to go through the checklist with them. Certainly did they try to live somewhat vicariously through my childhood? Yes, I can certainly see signs of that, and I've been aware of that for some time.

Also, my mother is something of a champion of the innocent... she always needs someone to be a co-martyr with her, she the hero taking flack for saving some victim. My son was that victim for some time...

Luna