Sex and the Newlywed Mormon

[dogzilla]

Here's something I've been curious about ever since I was a teenager in the Church and discovered that my sole purpose on this planet was to become a mother. :rolleyes:

Now, as background, you should know that I lost my virginity as a young teenager (by choice), before I was baptised, so this particular issue would never have been an issue for me. On the other hand, I worried that I would be good, and Perfect, and virtuous and marry some returned mish only to find out he was a virgin and sucked in the sack, so to speak. Even as I kid, I firmly believed that sex is a mission-critical component to marriage, being one of the best ways to establish and renew intimacy. Bad sex is one of the leading causes of divorce, IIRC.

So. Tell me, my friends, those of you who married in the temple to another virgin. . . How did that first night go? Did you have problems in your marriage (with trust, intimacy, passion, whatever) due to the lack of experience on the part of one or both partners? How does the trust dynamic work when the man is supposed to have all the power in the relationship? While Mormons aren't encouraged to have oral sex (an understatement, from what I understand), were you allowed to have orgasms? Did women ever discuss that sort of thing?

I sort of vaguely recall a conversation I had with a fellow MIA maid (or whatever the heck we were called) where she revealed that her mother (who had something like six kids) had never experienced The Big O. I can't imagine 40+ years of marriage with no orgasm. (As I said to my health practitioner after being prescribed an anti-depressant with low incidents of sexual side effects, "Frankly, I'd rather just be depressed than never get off!" :D She agreed.)

And then there's this story (http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/nosex.asp) about a couple who couldn't figure out why they couldn't get pregnant... until they were told they weren't actually having sex! (Now Snopes is in the process of debunking this potential urban legend, but when I first read it, my guess was the couple were extremely naive young Mormons.)

So I'm interested in what your experiences may have been and how your sex lives improved after you left the church, or if they did at all.

[silverfox]

Here's something I've been curious about ever since I was a teenager in the Church and discovered that my sole purpose on this planet was to become a mother. :rolleyes:

Now, as background, you should know that I lost my virginity as a young teenager (by choice), before I was baptised, so this particular issue would never have been an issue for me. On the other hand, I worried that I would be good, and Perfect, and virtuous and marry some returned mish only to find out he was a virgin and sucked in the sack, so to speak. Even as I kid, I firmly believed that sex is a mission-critical component to marriage, being one of the best ways to establish and renew intimacy. Bad sex is one of the leading causes of divorce, IIRC.

So. Tell me, my friends, those of you who married in the temple to another virgin. . . How did that first night go? Did you have problems in your marriage (with trust, intimacy, passion, whatever) due to the lack of experience on the part of one or both partners? How does the trust dynamic work when the man is supposed to have all the power in the relationship? While Mormons aren't encouraged to have oral sex (an understatement, from what I understand), were you allowed to have orgasms? Did women ever discuss that sort of thing?

I sort of vaguely recall a conversation I had with a fellow MIA maid (or whatever the heck we were called) where she revealed that her mother (who had something like six kids) had never experienced The Big O. I can't imagine 40+ years of marriage with no orgasm. (As I said to my health practitioner after being prescribed an anti-depressant with low incidents of sexual side effects, "Frankly, I'd rather just be depressed than never get off!" :D She agreed.)

And then there's this story (http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/nosex.asp) about a couple who couldn't figure out why they couldn't get pregnant... until they were told they weren't actually having sex! (Now Snopes is in the process of debunking this potential urban legend, but when I first read it, my guess was the couple were extremely naive young Mormons.)

So I'm interested in what your experiences may have been and how your sex lives improved after you left the church, or if they did at all.

You asked for responses from Mo's who were virgins who married virgins. I was not a V when I joined at 18 (my choice also) My first husband (ex) had been married before. My second had been on a mission, etc but was not a V when we married (THANK GAWD) So I don't qualify. I've never had any issues with sex. No complaints. That is one place I didn't allow the church to go...in the bedroom. I didn't care what they said, all there attention about what went on in my bedroom was just too damn weird!

But I think I am lucky in that I was not a V when I joined or married. I knew what I was in for.

I knew a Mo couple back in my early days as a member. They had dated for 4 FOUR years. Since they were 16. They dated exclusively the two years before they married at 20. They were married for 2 months and had it annulled. They couldn't consumate the marriage. They were too weirded out about that next level.

[dogzilla]

That's interesting. Talk about being stuck in the "friend" zone! Did either of them turn out to be gay (not that there's anything wrong with that)?

Huh. Two Seinfeld references in a single post. I must stop watching reruns. :D

[ifitmakesuhappy]

Here's something I've been curious about ever since I was a teenager in the Church and discovered that my sole purpose on this planet was to become a mother. :rolleyes:

Now, as background, you should know that I lost my virginity as a young teenager (by choice), before I was baptised, so this particular issue would never have been an issue for me. On the other hand, I worried that I would be good, and Perfect, and virtuous and marry some returned mish only to find out he was a virgin and sucked in the sack, so to speak. Even as I kid, I firmly believed that sex is a mission-critical component to marriage, being one of the best ways to establish and renew intimacy. Bad sex is one of the leading causes of divorce, IIRC.

So. Tell me, my friends, those of you who married in the temple to another virgin. . . How did that first night go? Did you have problems in your marriage (with trust, intimacy, passion, whatever) due to the lack of experience on the part of one or both partners? How does the trust dynamic work when the man is supposed to have all the power in the relationship? While Mormons aren't encouraged to have oral sex (an understatement, from what I understand), were you allowed to have orgasms? Did women ever discuss that sort of thing?

I sort of vaguely recall a conversation I had with a fellow MIA maid (or whatever the heck we were called) where she revealed that her mother (who had something like six kids) had never experienced The Big O. I can't imagine 40+ years of marriage with no orgasm. (As I said to my health practitioner after being prescribed an anti-depressant with low incidents of sexual side effects, "Frankly, I'd rather just be depressed than never get off!" :D She agreed.)

And then there's this story (http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/nosex.asp) about a couple who couldn't figure out why they couldn't get pregnant... until they were told they weren't actually having sex! (Now Snopes is in the process of debunking this potential urban legend, but when I first read it, my guess was the couple were extremely naive young Mormons.)

So I'm interested in what your experiences may have been and how your sex lives improved after you left the church, or if they did at all.


I cant really comment either for myself anyway...i married a young man who basically got baptised because he knew i wanted him to. He wasn't a virgin but not very experienced and we did sleep together before we married. Anyway the sex wasnt great but I had no idea at the time that i wasn't having orgasms. That's besides the point... the purpose of my reply was to tell of a tale thats been whispered in my ward for quite some time... this woman is probably the most TBM you could ever meet, as are all of her family. Apparently she thinks of sex as such a dirty thing, that she keeps a stick beside her bed at all times to fight her husband off if he gets a little too amorous. Sex is for the sole purpose of producing children. Sounds totally bizarre i know...but im told its true...if it is true, how messed up is her idea of sex?!?!

[peter_mary]

Apparently she thinks of sex as such a dirty thing, that she keeps a stick beside her bed at all times to fight her husband off if he gets a little too amorous. Sex is for the sole purpose of producing children. Sounds totally bizarre i know...but im told its true...if it is true, how messed up is her idea of sex?!?!

Wait...what I think you're saying is that the above is "abnormal" behavior?

Damn...

Paul

:D :D :D

[silverfox]

I am getting off track but dogzilla's post makes me want to share this story.

A TBM neighbor's (who WAS my "best" friend until my apostcay) hubby likes to play around. She got pregnant in high school at 17. They got married. Both from strict TBM families. A year later they were sealed in the temple. He cheated on her for years until she finally divorced him after having 3 children. He left her when she was pregnant with their third child. They were divorced for about 4 years. But during this time she would allow him to not pay child support. She would allow him to use her credit cards to guy other women flowers, etc. Very codependent! He has two children with other women...one child he has never seen.

Anyway, she met someone else and got engaged. This threw her ex into a tizzy so he begged her to remarry him. She claims she has always been in love with him. He promised he would straighten up (he had been ex'd for all the affairs) Promised he would get a job in the same state (he works in different states and is home about one weekend a month) Anyway, my friends HATES sex. Absolutely hates it. He has affairs and she is okay with it as long as she doesn't know about it. YIKES! She just had another baby. (their youngest before this one is 12) She is okay with him having porn, whatever he wants as long as he doesn't pressure her.

Now, I just could never live this way. I don't get it. She is very TBM. He is not active at all but insists that his family remain active. Crazy. I mean, she only sees him one weekend a month anyway.....why let him have so much freedom!? when you only have to worry about it one weekend out of the month?

Okay, continue on with the real topic of this thread. (sorry)

[silverfox]

That's interesting. Talk about being stuck in the "friend" zone! Did either of them turn out to be gay (not that there's anything wrong with that)?

Huh. Two Seinfeld references in a single post. I must stop watching reruns. :D

I moved out of that ward shortly afterward. I don't know what ever happened to them.

Another couple dated for about 3 yrs but were intimate prior to the marriage. After four months they divorced. Not sure why, niether will say.

[ifitmakesuhappy]

Wait...what I think you're saying is that the above is "abnormal" behavior?

Damn...

Paul

:D :D :D


Hey the hubby's name is paul!!! I always knew you were a rebel inside hehe :D

[Free-soil]

I came out of the church unscathed...I mean unmarried :D . This was quite the fete at old age of 22. At any rate, several of my friends are married. After one of us gals bit the dust, we would always have an after honeymoon dinner party.

Lots of funny things were revealed. Aside from the hilarious stories, I noticed a trend. The girl that got married young (18-19) normally didn't have sex the first night or two. I guess they were enjoying being able to french kiss without feeling guilty ;) . The older ones though were pretty comfortable with themselves and the idea of sex.

I always found it funny the way the church "dealt" with singles. We had a pamphlet in our stake, from the stake leaders, entitled "Standards for Celestial Dating and Courtship" It was WACKY! I'm certain this is why so many young TBM struggle so much.

[dogzilla]

Free-soil, I'm certain that sort of thing is why I didn't stay in the church after I left for college. I was too busy partying to care much about eternity.

[stuckasamo]

In my health class last semester at the Disciple Preparatory Center (read: Mormon school), we did a section on "when no becomes yes, and unsacred becomes sacred" and we talked about the wedding night of a temple marriage. It was an all-female class, and our TBM teacher (obviously) was open and easy to talk to. She had asked our former school president (now an apostle - now you all know which school I'm at!) all the sex questions she could to make SURE what she told us was consistent with the teachings of the morg. Here's what I learned:

Oral sex is off-limits because it's a "dog-like" behavior. It's not an activity that is "god-like". Also, no role-playing during sex that's demeaning - no handcuffs or whips or any props like that. Even if the woman agrees (or the man, if that's your thing :D ). And this is the killer: A girl asked how bad sex hurts the first time, and our teacher told us we should not be thinking about that - the men have been holding in their hormones for over twenty years when they marry, and they should be "allowed quick and full release" without having to worry about their new virgin wife. That's EXACTLY what she said! I wrote it down in my notebook. She went on hastily to say he should be "more cogniscent" of the woman's feelings after that first night.

After hearing that, I finally understood why my bull-s### detector goes nuts every time I get within a mile of a moron church.

So, basically, they're saying the man (who we all know didn't masturbate ONCE during that twenty some-odd years :p ) can just pound away at his virgin bride because he deserves it more? Now, I'm a virgin, and I'll be damned if I let my first love practically rape me. That's my word on that. :)

[Born Free]

In my health class last semester at the Disciple Preparatory Center (read: Mormon school), we did a section on "when no becomes yes, and unsacred becomes sacred" and we talked about the wedding night of a temple marriage. It was an all-female class, and our TBM teacher (obviously) was open and easy to talk to. She had asked our former school president (now an apostle - now you all know which school I'm at!) all the sex questions she could to make SURE what she told us was consistent with the teachings of the morg. Here's what I learned:

Oral sex is off-limits because it's a "dog-like" behavior. It's not an activity that is "god-like". Also, no role-playing during sex that's demeaning - no handcuffs or whips or any props like that. Even if the woman agrees (or the man, if that's your thing :D ). And this is the killer: A girl asked how bad sex hurts the first time, and our teacher told us we should not be thinking about that - the men have been holding in their hormones for over twenty years when they marry, and they should be "allowed quick and full release" without having to worry about their new virgin wife. That's EXACTLY what she said! I wrote it down in my notebook. She went on hastily to say he should be "more cogniscent" of the woman's feelings after that first night.

After hearing that, I finally understood why my bull-s### detector goes nuts every time I get within a mile of a moron church.

So, basically, they're saying the man (who we all know didn't masturbate ONCE during that twenty some-odd years :p ) can just pound away at his virgin bride because he deserves it more? Now, I'm a virgin, and I'll be damned if I let my first love practically rape me. That's my word on that. :)

stuckasamo,

Go for it! Keep that BS detector brightly polished with fresh batteries!

It is the undercurrent of this that dismays me. I am not sure what the US equivalent is to the Victorian English - lay there, endure and think of Queen and Country.

Sex is a task, to be endured! The possibilities that young women may be chaffing at the bitt gets lost on them, that they may have had their heads filled with expectations that might need to be reigned in with some information.

My wife and another friend used to love debriefing RS lessons where the default tone was "Oh ain't it terrible, yukky, with all those juices to mess up the bed!" They loved to throw a spanner in the works by taking the counter angle - we love it, and just wish we had more time to enjoy it more! Boy, did that panic the horses!

What gets lost is some basic sexual research findings. It must be 25 yeasr ago at least Shere Hite's survey of women found that about only 25% of women climaxed through penetration! So what does that leave for the balance?

Manual stimulation by a partner,
Manual self-stimulation
Oral sex

So oral sex is out (dirty dogs!), leaving two difficult areas. What most Mormon men know about sex could cover a postage stamp (its natural, so what I do instinctively should get you off or its your problem!), or we are left with teh scary idea of self-stimulation during love-making.

I don't know about you (like to see a few responses on this one), but most good MoMO women it seems, believe that touching their genitals to self-stimulate is very, very problematic.

Which leads us to the sad but inevitable conclusion that they might not be a lot of female Mormon orgasms going down out there! Does that inpart explain the high levels of depression among Mormon women?

I would be very keen to see some of you gals declare what your beliefs were back then, and what you believed other good Mormon women believed on this issue, if it was ever a fair subject of discussion.

I will warn in advance that I am Australian, so please be aware that we are possibly a bit more open about discussions of this type, and I am notorious for calling a spade a spade, and believe that honest discussion of sexuality is no less important than any other facet of life.

Daryl

[silverfox]

In my health class last semester at the Disciple Preparatory Center (read: Mormon school), we did a section on "when no becomes yes, and unsacred becomes sacred" and we talked about the wedding night of a temple marriage. It was an all-female class, and our TBM teacher (obviously) was open and easy to talk to. She had asked our former school president (now an apostle - now you all know which school I'm at!) all the sex questions she could to make SURE what she told us was consistent with the teachings of the morg. Here's what I learned:

Oral sex is off-limits because it's a "dog-like" behavior. It's not an activity that is "god-like". Also, no role-playing during sex that's demeaning - no handcuffs or whips or any props like that. Even if the woman agrees (or the man, if that's your thing :D ). And this is the killer: A girl asked how bad sex hurts the first time, and our teacher told us we should not be thinking about that - the men have been holding in their hormones for over twenty years when they marry, and they should be "allowed quick and full release" without having to worry about their new virgin wife. That's EXACTLY what she said! I wrote it down in my notebook. She went on hastily to say he should be "more cogniscent" of the woman's feelings after that first night.

After hearing that, I finally understood why my bull-s### detector goes nuts every time I get within a mile of a moron church.

So, basically, they're saying the man (who we all know didn't masturbate ONCE during that twenty some-odd years :p ) can just pound away at his virgin bride because he deserves it more? Now, I'm a virgin, and I'll be damned if I let my first love practically rape me. That's my word on that. :)

GOOD GAWD! This woman needs help! Yikes! She is teaching this kind of BS? If my daughter (even if she was an adult) was in her class she'd get an earful from me and a lesson or two about sex. If I was in her class I'd at the least send her an anonymous letter setting her straight.

No wonder Mo males have f'ed up perceptions of sex as well as the females. Sheeeesh!!!!! No wonder so there are so many intimacy issues with Mo newlyweds. Yikes!!!!!

Craziness. This scares the hell out of me.

[Born Free]

GOOD GAWD! This woman needs help! Yikes! She is teaching this kind of BS? If my daughter (even if she was an adult) was in her class she'd get an earful from me and a lesson or two about sex. If I was in her class I'd at the least send her an anonymous letter setting her straight.

No wonder Mo males have f'ed up perceptions of sex as well as the females. Sheeeesh!!!!! No wonder so there are so many intimacy issues with Mo newlyweds. Yikes!!!!!

Craziness. This scares the hell out of me.

Notice that the other subtext is that men should not be held accountable for their sexual urges (they have completely missed the obvious link with dog-like behaviour). Like, if they don't get release, they might start humping your leg. :eek:

With 20 years of accumulated semen (now that WOULD be serious white-out!), they are like a dam with its floodgate ready to explode.

The wall to wall ignorance, implicit in this is gob-stopping. Oh the wonders of having the inspiration of the Lord when it comes to dispensing advice! :confused:

Daryl

[dogzilla]

Keep that BS detector brightly polished with fresh batteries!


Um. sturgdw... That's not her BS detector. :D





Thanks for the discussion. Somehow, I knew that wouldn't be too personal. It seems like a topic people sort of dance around but don't really discuss. Have at it.

I'm going to go polish my.... um, BS detector... :cool:

[Born Free]

Here's what I learned:

Oral sex is off-limits because it's a "dog-like" behavior. It's not an activity that is "god-like".

After hearing that, I finally understood why my bull-s### detector goes nuts every time I get within a mile of a moron church.



I just saw the horrific implications of being a dyslexic Mormon:

You might confuse "God-like behaviour" with "dog-like behaviour"!

That could lead you all sorts of complicated places - kissing leaders arses is OK, even Celestial; whereas dogs stiffing and licking dogs privates is clearly Telestial behaviour or worse!

And I just saw the horrific possible implications of Mos getting into S&M in the bedroom. The women might get to see that they really are living out a submissive role full time in the REAL world. (I am fighting off the picture of some PH leaders dressed in tights, fishnet stockings and stilletoes! Oh Gooooooood! Frightening. Don't goooooooooo there! Nightmare material!)

Alternatively, the Mo Males, who have to carry to full time role and responsibility of be oh-so-macho out in the real world, might, like Hitler, invert behind closed doors and go all submissive. We now know Hitler was into water-sports behind closed doors, so the flood gates might open, if Mos started to explore S&M behind closed doors!

(God, I'm sick. Might have to become a Catholic and rip off to confession!)

Clearly therapy has not sorted me out!

Daryl

.

[mutleydog]

LOL!! I was always curious about the whole mormon, virgin and sex thing too. Having lead quite a colourful (compared to a mormon) before I joined the church, I was always a little wary about marrying someone that was a complete novice - think i was more worried that I would clearly seem more experienced - now it wouldn't have seemed right making the priesthood holder of the home look inadequate would it?!! LOL!! Actually, I was always a little fearful that i would come across a bit too worldly......I was always getting myself into intimate scarpes whilst in church, not to mention I have always had quite a strong sex-drive and more often than not indulged in the prohibited practice of masturbation - for me it was a way of learning about my body/needs and gaining pleasure!! I could never quite understand how people could see sex as just procreation or whatever - as for all the teachings about oral sex, role playing etc.....all i can say is......most mormons haven't lived!! :D

[ifitmakesuhappy]

I just saw the horrific implications of being a dyslexic Mormon:

You might confuse "God-like behaviour" with "dog-like behaviour"!

That could lead you all sorts of complicated places - kissing leaders arses is OK, even Celestial; whereas dogs stiffing and licking dogs privates is clearly Telestial behaviour or worse!

And I just saw the horrific possible implications of Mos getting into S&M in the bedroom. The women might get to see that they really are living out a submissive role full time in the REAL world. (I am fighting off the picture of some PH leaders dressed in tights, fishnet stockings and stilletoes! Oh Gooooooood! Frightening. Don't goooooooooo there! Nightmare material!)

Alternatively, the Mo Males, who have to carry to full time role and responsibility of be oh-so-macho out in the real world, might, like Hitler, invert behind closed doors and go all submissive. We now know Hitler was into water-sports behind closed doors, so the flood gates might open, if Mos started to explore S&M behind closed doors!

(God, I'm sick. Might have to become a Catholic and rip off to confession!)

Clearly therapy has not sorted me out!

Daryl

.

LMAO reading that really made me laugh :D Im so shocked to read some of the things u lot have written here. I was in the church all my life but never really discussed much about sex with anyone in the church until quite recently. Oral sex is not allowed?? i never knew that!!! Thats closed it for me i'll NEVER go back lol. Oral sex is the best thing in the world lol!!! Some of those things are totally bizarre...peculiar people?? u can say that again! As far as im concerned so long as its 2 (or more!) consenting adults, anything goes in the bedroom and if we're to be judged on what goes on in there then im going straight to hell just for the contents of my bottom drawer!!! im sure God would have no problem with us enjoying our bodies this way. The church does give u hang ups about sex though...i never masterbated until i was about 25/26 and wasnt sure what was happening when i had my first big O. Like muttleydog said, its natural, u need to find out about your body and thats the only way to do it. When i think of all the years i missed out... :eek: doin my best to make up for it now though :D
Of the few convos ive had with other mormons about sex i do know of a few who dont believe the BS and who are enjoying sex to the full. But i agree with whoever said that there must be so many mormon women who just arent being satisfied...poor things!!! Ladies...form an orderly queue please... :p

[Born Free]

LOL!! I was always curious about the whole mormon, virgin and sex thing too. Having lead quite a colourful (compared to a mormon) before I joined the church, I was always a little wary about marrying someone that was a complete novice - think i was more worried that I would clearly seem more experienced - now it wouldn't have seemed right making the priesthood holder of the home look inadequate would it?!! LOL!! Actually, I was always a little fearful that i would come across a bit too worldly......I was always getting myself into intimate scarpes whilst in church, not to mention I have always had quite a strong sex-drive and more often than not indulged in the prohibited practice of masturbation - for me it was a way of learning about my body/needs and gaining pleasure!! I could never quite understand how people could see sex as just procreation or whatever - as for all the teachings about oral sex, role playing etc.....all i can say is......most mormons haven't lived!! :D

Oh no! Not the M word, which we cannot speak?

I am in violent agreement. If God/doG had not intended we masturbate he/she would not have ended our arms right at the point on our body where our genitals were situated!

Daryl

[Born Free]

Of the few convos ive had with other mormons about sex i do know of a few who dont believe the BS and who are enjoying sex to the full. But i agree with whoever said that there must be so many mormon women who just arent being satisfied...poor things!!! Ladies...form an orderly queue please... :p

Hey gals,

I was deadly serious when I asked how people (female Mo people) traversed the implied message "Thou shall not touch thyself!"

We really had a lot of hassles in the bedroom until we got beyond the expectation that penetration should be enough. And I believe that I was far, far better read than the average JoeMo, so I wonder how the hell all the "good MOs" got on.

How did others navigate the gap between the crap deficit of information Moism encouraged, and the need to make sexuality work for you both?

Daryl

[dogzilla]

Funny, I don't remember actually hearing the "do not touch yourself" message. But that could be because I'm a girl and as we all know, women have no sex drive and do not feel sexual pleasure anyway.

Which brings up another point of confusion. I do not have children. My sister does. And when she had her first child, I asked her about breastfeeding and how weird was that? (Suddenly, you're like a restaurant on legs.) She said she was told by the breastfeeding coach at the hospital that some nerve endings sort of connect your nipples to your genitals (or something along those lines), which is why nipple stimulation causes vaginal lubrication. Makes sense, right?

So, apparently, some women experience sexual pleasure while breastfeeding and some even to the point of orgasm. Obviously, if you're real hung up about sex, this would be quite troublesome. "I got off feeding my kid." There's where admonishment to not masturbate sort of takes on a whole new dimension. You simply cannot control a biological response.

It seems we keep focusing on what Mormons are supposed to NOT be allowed to do in the bedroom. My list is very, very short for what Mormons ARE allowed to do in the bedroom. Do women get to be on top or is that too emasculating for our fragile preisthood holders? Clearly, doggie style is out of the question... What about the kitchen countertop? Does sex have to be confined to the bedroom? I'm starting to feel sorry for married TBMs everywhere, cursed to a vanilla sex life for time AND ALL ETERNITY. ('Cause believe me, friends, if there's no sex in the afterlife, then what is the point again?)

[peter_mary]

Um. sturgdw... That's not her BS detector. :D





Thanks for the discussion. Somehow, I knew that wouldn't be too personal. It seems like a topic people sort of dance around but don't really discuss. Have at it.

I'm going to go polish my.... um, BS detector... :cool:

Dogzilla,

I haven't laughed this hard in a month of Sundays! :D I'm still wiping away the tears! Thanks for a much-needed endorphin release!

Paul

[dogzilla]

I hear ya... I sense a Peep Stone story in the works... ;)

[lsands]

I've been a little reticent about answering your question, Daryl, because my experience involves more than one person (me and my exhusband), and I'm aware that while it feels like we're having an intimate chat among ourselves, anyone who wants to can come on here and read. If we really were all sitting around talking privately together, I might be a lot more detailed! :eek:

With that little disclaimer, let me just say that both my ex and I were virgins when we got married. We were high school sweethearts; I waited for him on his mission. We were engaged 3 days after he returned home, and married three months later, when I was 19 and he was 21 (the stupidity of marrying so young and with NO MONEY, then having babies right away is a topic for another post.) :mad:

While we were both pretty clueless, we learned together. After all, isn't that what everyone has to do, in one way or another, anyway? And somehow---I don't know how---I was able to avoid the hangups about sex that many women and men seemed to get from all of the church don'ts. Our intimate life was not wildly experimental (and we took counsel about certain "practices" seriously); still, we learned to please (and touch) each other.

I did not have explicit conversations about sex with other women in the church. In fact, I was surprised to learn that this is an area in many, if not most, marriages that is fraught with tension and disappointment. It was a positive aspect of my marriage. And maybe, thinking about it now, I should give a lot of the credit for that to a husband who cared about pleasing me.

Laraine

[Born Free]

So I'm interested in what your experiences may have been and how your sex lives improved after you left the church, or if they did at all.

This is not our own story, but is illustrative.

We had been married about 3 years when a missionary that had been an acquaintance of my wife when he did his mission, called to say he was in Oz (he was from the US), with his young wife, and was keen to catch up. Of course, they were welcomed over and we passed a pleasant evening.

I cannot recall much of the thrust of the conversation, but it must have got pretty frank because at one point they shared that they had been doing something the Church Leaders warned against when lightning struck a tree outside the house. (Actually, as I recall it might not even have been that explicit - maybe just something one of them feared the GAs would frown upon. Got to be careful with these things. I had one distant relly by marriage, who, when the GAs became experts on oral sex, figured they were speaking of French kissing!)

Being good Mos, this was interpreted as a sign from the Almighty that he was not impressed with what they were up to. (Bummer that a tree has to get wasted to make his/her point!)

Like most Mo conversations of this nature it was "You know what I mean.....", and of course that was where the stunningly accurate communication ceased.

Back then I was still unaware of the embargo on oral sex. In hindsight, God/doG only knows what they were stressed about, and where it really stands of the great Mo God/doG scale of the sacred/sordid!

Daryl

[stuckasamo]

I don't know about you (like to see a few responses on this one), but most good MoMO women it seems, believe that touching their genitals to self-stimulate is very, very problematic.

Daryl

That's exactly it. That's masturbation, so even during sex, women are discouraged from self-stimulation - only their partner is allowed to do that. The problem is, the guys have no clue what they're doing, and they assume that if they're satisfied, their partner is satisfied, and the girl doesn't speak up and TELL her partner otherwise! Because that would make her a NAG!

Yeah, our health teacher said no to the self-stimulation idea.

On a related note, yes, I do keep fresh batteries in my.......BS detector! :D

[j_anderson]

We were both virgins at our wedding, and didn't experience any of the hangups people have mentioned. It didn't enter our minds (either of us) that we should limit our sexual expression in any way because of faith, and we were certainly never taught that any mutually agreeable activity was off limits.

[jael]

So. Tell me, my friends, those of you who married in the temple to another virgin. . . How did that first night go? Did you have problems in your marriage (with trust, intimacy, passion, whatever) due to the lack of experience on the part of one or both partners? How does the trust dynamic work when the man is supposed to have all the power in the relationship? While Mormons aren't encouraged to have oral sex (an understatement, from what I understand), were you allowed to have orgasms? Did women ever discuss that sort of thing?

So I'm interested in what your experiences may have been and how your sex lives improved after you left the church, or if they did at all.

Yep, I was a virgin at my temple wedding to another virgin. I don't know if we were lucky, but sex has been great from the get-go. Neither of us felt guilty, both of us love it! I've enjoyed the "big O" regularly since my honeymoon. We certainly did more than peck before marriage, though, which is more than I can say for some of my Molly and Peter siblings (not that I wasn't just like them in most respects, b/c I was).

I'm lucky that my DH never considered himself the "high and mighty priesthood holder" (even though he had the "priesthood") even before we realized JS was a fraud. I'm sure this contributed to our healthy sex life.

No General Authority has ever said anything about women having orgasms, but in BYU pre-wedding culture (they have lectures, a whole college course on preparing for marriage, and the BYU Dr.s give a little coaching. Ha ha, our Dr. was at least 70!), they certainly encourage learning how to be a good lover and pleasing your spouse.

Also, I have many close LDS female friends who are not shy about discussing sex and orgasms, and they all seem to be able to orgasm as well.

We've enjoyed oral sex all along; I don't know if this is radical, but I doubt it. I bet there are many who'd deny it, but do it nonetheless.

Our sex life has changed slightly since "apostatizing" ;) . My DH really appreciates that I picked him over the LDS church, which improves intimacy. Also, I'd occasionally have slight twinges of guilt over oral sex, which I've now thrown to the wind with a chuckle over ol' Joe's sexual deviance.