Who is your new PostMo 'Village' and is that important to you?

[Born Free]

We identified previously that just as Mormonism uses 'the Village' to keep people in (MOrg), then most people benefit greatly from a new Village or community when they leave. (See the pdf diagram of on the Stages thread).

http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=288

I am keen to see how others found like-souls that nourished them after what can often initially feel like the freefall and lonliness out of Mormonism.

What worked for you?
Where did you find your new community?
How did you find them?
How hard was it for you to find?
Was it easly to fit in, when you did?
Was the internet better or worse suited to that task?
What sort of relationships do you have with other former Mormons?

If there are important questions about that phase, that I have not listed above, please add them.

Daryl

[miss taken]

What worked for you?

I basically left very quietly, and got on with my career as a teacher. It was very fulfilling and an occupation that is very easy to completely immerse oneself in....

I had a very close friend who had left full activity a number of years before. She was a philosophy graduate and also a teacher, so we had a lot in common. She was a great support through that time. Because, as teachers, we shared the same vacation times, we decided to travel and travel and travel and travel.... Great fun and also very mind expanding and fulfilling.

I started to date like crazy and was amazed at how many good men there were outside the church.

I also read a LOT of books about early christianity and the historical Jesus, which went on for about 4 years.



Where did you find your new community?

Didn't find a community as such, but I always feel more comfortable in small groups of friends rather than large numbers, so not having a community as such wasn't a problem. Plus school teachers are a pretty friendly, cohesive bunch, who shared my love of teaching kids, so that community offered much without the need to profess beliefs in something I wasn't entirely sure of.

How did you find them?

They were already there, but were not prioritised until I left full activity because being an active member used to take up so much of my time with various meetings and what not.

How hard was it for you to find?

Not hard.

Was it easly to fit in, when you did?

My non-member friends couldn't really relate to my years of activity; my best friend obviously could as she had been there herself. Being a devout Mormon is a unique and relatively uncommon experience from where I come from (UK) so finding people with the same background and with some understanding is not easy.. My husband went up to church a couple of times so he could understand the culture (and me) a little better. My priority community right now is my family, and I guess I fit in well!!!




Was the internet better or worse suited to that task?

For me, the internet is an ideal opportunity to chat with people who share a common background, even if they are still active. I am shy, and probably wouldn't say half the things that I have the courage to say over the internet. Because post mormons are a relatively rare breed particularly outside the Mormon Corridor, it is ideal, though I would like to meet people face to face, though having said that I probably would be too shy to speak!!!

What sort of relationships do you have with other former Mormons?

My best friend is also a former Mormon, and I have a really good relationship both with her and her partner (a non-mormon), who shares the same kind of occupation as my husband so it works well.

[peter_mary]

I doubt my situation is the norm...

Our principal community came from our Ward. We naturally gravitated toward people who seemed a bit on the edge of things, and as we established relationships, a new community within the context of the Church, we actually began the process of migrating out together. We created a new community, and that whole community moved out.

The other community of importance was this little one right here.

[nate]

I am keen to see how others found like-souls that nourished them after what can often initially feel like the freefall and lonliness out of Mormonism.

What worked for you?
Where did you find your new community?
How did you find them?
How hard was it for you to find?
Was it easly to fit in, when you did?
Was the internet better or worse suited to that task?
What sort of relationships do you have with other former Mormons?



My situation is a little different, as I left the church so young, at 17. At that point in my life, I had been so sheltered by over protective parents, that I only knew of two possible "villages": mormonism and the teen party life. I knew that the church was not for me, but where to turn? The only other option I saw in front of me was the alcohol drinking, drug-using, staying out all night partying subculture that typically runs rampant (albeit somewhat hidden) in uber-religious, conservative communities.

That is where I found my new community. That is where I found acceptance. And I dove right in, headfirst! I literally tried anything and everything that I could get my hands on, and was surprised that that consisted of anything and everything...even in Logan, Utah.

How did I find them? My older brothers, having already left the church and in the same fashion, had already done the searching for me. It wasn't hard.

However, after many years of addiction to some very hard drugs, I found myself in the exact same situation. A desire to leave the village I was in, but not wanting to return to the village I had previously left. This time, the search was much more difficult. At first much of what the Mormon's say about apostates seemed to be exactly correct, and I had proven it so. But I realized that it didn't have to be so. I realized that it IS NOT black and white. There IS grey in the world. And I wanted it!

This is when those around me, including my brothers, also became wise to their addictions but still refused to ask themselves the hard questions. Due to that refusal, they sentenced themselves to a life of back and forth. Hop-scotching between the black and white, depending on their mood and level of tolerance for self-inflicted mental anguish.

I don't know what was different about me, what made me see and actually FEEL the grey in between, but I did. I curtailed my substance abuse and began to live by the rule of moderation in all things. And not until I met my lovely wife and started to post on this here site did I really feel that I had found the village that I was looking for.

As far as my relationships with other former Mormons, well, unless a person is truly committed to knowing and understanding me (as my wife is), they simply won't, don't and can't...unless they are a former Mormon.

[lunaverse]

What worked for you?
Where did you find your new community?
How did you find them?
How hard was it for you to find?
Was it easly to fit in, when you did?
Was the internet better or worse suited to that task?
What sort of relationships do you have with other former Mormons?


As a firmly identified member of the Geek subculture, I easily found a place outside of Mormonism. In fact, after years of being an outsider in Mormonism, I had often been far more accepted and loved by non-Mormon gamers, computer techs, and science junkies.

My Epiphany happened in November of 2000, and in January 2001 I started dating an old friend who was on leave from the Air Force. I knew if I had sex with him, that was it.. no going back. We had sex, he went back to foriegn lands, and I just spent more time hanging with online friends and local geeks, dated some, and had a great old time. Now I didn't have to feel guilty for fitting in better with non-members!

I sure tried to fit in at Church, beleive me, I tried doing everything perfectly, but was still considered the weirdo. Aside from being a brain, it didn't help that I was a divorced single mother.

At around 24 or 26 (still TBM) I decided screw it, got a weird hair cut, started dressing how ever I wanted, and got a few piercings. If they were going to think I was weird anyway, might as well go with it. My geek friends never had a problem with how I looked, what I said, who I was... They even accepted me as a Mormon.

The internet is amazing. I haven't read the full symptoms list, but I believe I had Social Anxiety Disorder once in my life. Being in public often left me disabled with fear. The internet really helped me practice social behavior in a "safe" setting, so that when I started interacting with more "real" humans, it wasn't as scary. Internet-Friends are why I was able to get a job and move here to Seattle and meet all my other friends. And also probably one of the reasons I eventually had the Epiphany... because debates with people who actually know REAL logical method, who demand you state your references, and who call you on your fallacies, can really do a number on your mental habits. :)

I currently hang with the pagan/polyamorous/computer-leaning/liberal-or-libertarian type geeks. For the most part, I like the crowd, although sometimes I miss certain aspects of past groups I've been with -- LAN gaming, classical music, alternative rock, stuff like that. I can still do these things, it's just that with fewer people talking about them and participating in them, I'm less likely to think about them.

I also miss guys with short hair! 85% of the guys I know have long locks. I've recently realized I'm more likely to be physically attracted to a short-haired guy. I think this has to do with Mormon programming. I also miss colone on a guy, and shirts with buttons!! Argh!

Other than online, I have hardly any relationships with former Mormons. Sometimes I make it to local post-mo activities, and I really enjoy them. There is another ex-Mormon in my circle of friends, but I don't know him well. I'd actually really like to date him. Maybe I should ask him out.

Luna

[silverfox]

What worked for you? At first I tried meeting fellow post mos from other post mo sites. We met for lunch, etc but it seemed difficult to create "real life" relationships
Where did you find your new community?Oddly enough, right here in my 'hood. I occassionally ran into fellow ward members and learned through our kids that we were all "inactive". There are 5 of us in my ward that are now non believers. Two of us have had our names removed.
How did you find them? It was purely accidental. Just running into them at school activities. I was lucky because I knew them when I was active but had been active for a couple of years so I had no idea they were inactive, too.
How hard was it for you to find? It took some time but once the ball got rolling, it was easy.
Was it easly to fit in, when you did?I learned that there always seems to have to be someone in a group who initiates activities, etc. I am that person. I started inviting them to my home for dinner. Then out to listen to live music, etc. I was lucky that they accepted. They were curious about new activities and social opportunities.
Was the internet better or worse suited to that task?I personally feel it was a negative experience. Maybe it's because of trust issues or lack of enthusiasm on some parts. I think also sometimes it's difficult to arrange times to meet up. I live in a small town and would have to travel to SLC or Utah County. Not convenient for me. But I have met a wonderful little circle of post mos from all over the US. We read each other's blogs and stay up to date that way.
What sort of relationships do you have with other former Mormons?[/INDENT] My two closest friends are post mos. I've known them for 7 years but just really got to know them the past two years. We are having a blast. We share a lot of interests. But I also have made some great nonmember/nevermo friends. Mo'ism really is a very small part of my life now. It is nearly nonexistent.

One thing I want to mention - I found I had to step outside familiar territory to get a better look at people. I go to some night clubs to hear live music. I visit a piano bar occassionally in SLC. Clubs were something very foreign to me as a Mo for 30 years and at first I was uncomfortable but I have made some WONDERFUL new friends in these environments. They aren't so evil afterall. But of course that depends on what you are looking for. My circle of friends is increasing and I've been more social as a Post Mo than I ever was as a TBM.


Darryl, this is a wonderful thread. I have a feeling many forum members have the same questions. It's difficult coming out of the Mo church and trying to create a new world. Difficult but AMAZING if you are willing to take a chance.

[Born Free]

Even before I left Mormonism I was wandering in a desert. In hindsight I see that Mormonism was NOT my village, but that I had been raised to believe that it was.

So, as I increasingly became aware of the discomfort of not fitting, I felt like I was in a desert without an oasis in sight. (Sorry to mix my village and desert metaphores)

Eventually, after wandering in the desert for a painfully long and thirsty period, I let my unconscious solve the problem that I felt too difficult to make: I was exed, ostensibly for an affair, but in reality because when asked about my belief in the Church (and by implication repentance, forgiveness and reapplying myself to it principals) I said most honestly that I had not testimony.

Then I found myself in what I thought was a desert. I could see no oases (plural of oasis???) no green trees, and no life. In that period I still saw religiosity and spirituality as the same thing. I became essentially agnostic. During that period I seemed to come across few people who were in that post-religious space.

Then slowly, slowly I began to see green trees, water, shade and light. I began to feel the cooling breeze, and I found a whole (non) community (as in they had no formal identity as such) who were in that post-religious space. And I discovered that it tended to matter little which religion they were post, that we tended to have a lot in common. I found I had a particular affinity with post-Mormons, and similar with post-SDAs and came to see that the values and worldview they had been inculcated with, was very, very similar to mine at the level below the doctrinal specifics.

As I read, and thought, and felt, and listened, I started to see that not only were religion and spirituality not the same, but most religion actually was anti-spiritual. That was a huge relief and opened up a whole new language to relate to others in a similar space. Part of that was coming to the realisation that central to this new way of being was trusting my own judgement, and being prepared to make mistakes.

So ironically, whilst I found it hard initially to find a new village, I came to see that it had been all around me all the time, and that I had not been ready to see it. It was like I had to take off a pair of glasses that filtered out that post-religious world, so that I was ready to see and engage.

I feel like I wasted time in coming to that realisation. I also feel frustrated that that appears to be the case for some others too, and that it may not need to be like that. Hence my enthusiasm about this site, and why I put so much effort into getting the Stages of Post Mo thread up and going. Just last week I got feedback from a recent departee and his wife that the diagram there was very helpful for them both. I could not be more delighted if someone else can avoid some of the pain and despair I went through.

I hurt when I read stories like Nate's, where he went from the (questionable) white of Mormonism to the black of immoderate and destructive behaviours. If I can do anything that is of some assistance in people finding expansion, moderation and self fullfilment, than I could not be happier, and delight in being part of such a community. I also delight in hearing of the various journeys others have made. I watch their recommmendations about which ideas, books, philosophies have helped and informed them very closely.

Thank you all for being part of one of my new communities and for the effort you all put into making this work. :D :D :D

Daryl

[miss taken]

Daryl, this has been a really interesting thread, and I have read each post with great interest.

Linking over to Mutley dog's thread, I think maybe there is a part of me that longs for a community that is wider than my own family, which is maybe why I enjoyed women's institute so much, much to the amuzement of all my friends. Why me certainly brings it up over on the FAIR boards as something I lack to my detriment.

I don't know, I was thinking that before I left the church I had pretty superficial friendships with others if they were non-mormon. I now enjoy quite deep friendships with some of the mums at my son's old school amongst others. We go out together, visit museums with the kids etc, husbands often in tow! I don't know that I would have ever widened my social circle had I still been active. (thinking about what Silverfox commented on) I think I would have reserved the most deep friendships only for active members which is kind of sad really.

I have found that most people, whether religious or not, are profoundly spiritual and all have a good story to tell that we can learn from, and vice versa.

Just my extra two pennyworth.

Great thread, I would love to read more comments...

[bobcat]

Yes, great thread. While I don't know if I'll add any particurly interesting ideas, I'm going to try anyway ;)

What worked for you?
Once I realized that I wanted to leave the church, I carefully tied up all of my loose ends (moved to Salt Lake from Provo, transferred to the U of U from BYU, etc) and walked out the door once and for all. I didn't have a lot of PostMo or NeverMo friends at the time, but I had a couple. I talked to them a lot, and met new people through them. Most of these people aren't my friends anymore, but at least having a place to physically be for a while was invaluable.

Where did you find your new community? AND
How did you find them?
Since most people around here have been Mormon at least once in their lives, I just had to look a bit. I found a short-term support group, and it helped a lot. I say short-term because a lot of these people had incompatible interests (drugs and other illegal stuff). After that, I found a couple of friends and coworkers in Salt Lake that were in a similar boat, and that helped a lot. Then I stumbled upon a website where I can post about my trials and successes in my transition out of MoInc. :D

How hard was it for you to find?
Remarkably easy to find. I ran a search for Post Mormon, and it worked

Was it easly to fit in, when you did?
I think so. Granted, I am a cyber nerd and am good at making friends online. But the immediate connections I made here have been very fulfilling.

Was the internet better or worse suited to that task?

I already said that I'm a nerd, so that answer should be obvious. I think the internet is the most valuable resource a struggling Almost-PostMo can have.

What sort of relationships do you have with other former Mormons?

My PostMo friends are friends online, and will probably stay that way forever. I'll never have a chance to meet most in person, but I find that the relationships this affords are very fulfilling. In the "real world", most of my current group of friends is PostMo. I spend little time with people that are TBMs, as we have very little to talk about. I'm still fresh enough from the cult that they inevitably want to talk about it, and many of my recent life-events center around it. Makes things awkward at times, though I'm sure these relations will return to normalcy eventually.