Exiting Gracefully-What worked for you?

[nomomo]

I would like to exit Mo gracefully, but lots of things are holding me back:

DH (Fear of damaging marriage relationship)
DD (At 7 is already quite well immersed)
Extended TB Mo family pressure (Goes back generations, Lorenzo Snow in family line, etc.)
Small town pressures

I was working for Harold Miller at BYU when I first started questioning. How they ever let him teach "Radical Joseph Smith" class makes me laugh! :p

10 years later and I've made up my mind. But where to start? How to do it? My husband is resistant to my views and pretty much in denial.

I have tried pulling out of callings and "holding back". This resistance has backfired and become a battle of wills between me and the bishopric. They are non-plussed by my attitudes which aren't in line at all with the traditional "yes Bishop, of course I will" attitudes expected.

I feel angry and disgusted at church, which is mentally unhealthy. I don't want to stay in that "place" (emotionally) indefinitely.

I've thought about staying in, at least until my daughter is grown, but that seems false and will just create more problems by reinforcing what I don't believe with her.

How do I deal with the problems that will inevitably arise? How do I do it without losing my sanity and integrity?

Ideas?

[peter_mary]

I would like to exit Mo gracefully, but lots of things are holding me back:

How do I deal with the problems that will inevitably arise? How do I do it without losing my sanity and integrity?

Ideas?

I wish there was a formula for success in this particular issue...I could sell it and make a mint! And I wouldn't have to tithe it, 'cause it would be filthy lucre! :rolleyes:

Here are a couple of random thoughts that, though hardly a formula for success, might be worth tucking in your back pocket as you start "evolving" in this new direction in your life.

First, I personally am an advocate for taking the slow and gentle approach out, (though others have argued convincingly for the "crash out" strategy). I am inclined to believe that if you move slowly, it gives people in your world time to make small adjustments to you, kind of like the frog in the boiling water parable (turned on it's ear). We've observed it in our family...people ARE beginning to notice, now that we've been out five years, but most people are still kind of wondering what ever happened to us? So for me, thought number 1 is: Evolve slowly enough that other people have time to evolve along with you.

Second, I believe we have a tendency to create that which we fear the most. When we leave the Church, we quite naturally assume that we will experience rejection at the hands of our family, friends and Ward. Some of that is justified, but we tend to catostrophize, and assume that the rejection will be massive, wholesale, and that there will be no recovery. In an effort to pre-empt that rejection, we reject them first (because, after all, we KNOW it is inevitable). The truth is often far less painful. Many, many people in your world harbor some doubts of their own (though maybe not as many), and they are equally as fearful of being rejected by you...most notably your spouse. Like Daryl suggested in another post this evening in response to Freesoil asking about how to handle her RM friend, it is important not to assume that you will be rejected, and in so doing, equally important not to reject them first. So thought number 2 is don't assume rejection from them, thereby creating that rejection by rejecting them first.

Third, I believe that above all, people just want to be accepted by other people. When we all wear the Church label, it's easy for people to assume that they have already found acceptance, since you share a set of core beliefs. When you reject that set of beliefs, YOU change the rules of the relationship. Remember, they haven't changed, you have. They don't know what your journey is about, but if you reject Mormonism, it is easy for your friends and family to generalize that rejection to Mormons, too...and that feels threatening to them. It is critical to seperate Mormons from Mormonism when trying to exit gracefully. Your Mormon friends whom you've enjoyed when you shared the same beliefs do not turn into monsters overnight because you've shifted belief systems...they are fundamentally the same people, only now they are worried about how to relate to you. So take that worry away from them! Show them your heart! Be open and caring and loving and supportive, and above all, honor their choice to believe just as much as you hope they will honor your choice not to believe. So thought number 3 is, recognize that YOU are the one who changed, not them, and help them through the realization process that you THE PERSON haven't changed at all...only you THE MORMON.

For us, our mantra has always been that when people talk about us (and they will! Oh, will they...), we want them scratching their heads and saying to each other, "Whatever happened there? They are such nice folks, never caused any trouble...In fact, I stopped by their house they other day, and they invited me right in, we chatted for a while, 'course they offered me coffee which was weird, :D but otherwise, you couldn't find nicer folks!" We were angry (probably still get pissed from time to time), but we work it out outside the Church, outside the Ward, with our support system, and let the Ward wonder...Thought number 4 is be too damn nice for them to ever really reject you!

Anyway, those are a couple of random ideas, things that seem to have worked in our situation, but then, our situation is invariably different than yours. Somewhere, and only you can ever figure out where, there is a balance between compassion for others and being true to yourself. Find that balance, and you'll exit gracefully.

We are so hear for you, Nomomo...

Paul

[tjohnson]

I personally would like to hear from someone who has dealt with the one spouse in / one spouse out of the church and how it was handled.

In my case, and I believe Paul's case as well, both partners were pretty much in agreement when it was time to "be done". It creates many problems that I have never dealt with or even thought about until now:

(1) Do you still go to church with your partner, or are you completely done?

(2) Do you allow your children to participate (mutual, etc.)?

(3) What about ward activities? Who goes, who stays?

Any input from anyone that has dealt with this subject would be very appreciated.

[Born Free]

I personally would like to hear from someone who has dealt with the one spouse in / one spouse out of the church and how it was handled.

In my case, and I believe Paul's case as well, both partners were pretty much in agreement when it was time to "be done". It creates many problems that I have never dealt with or even thought about until now:

(1) Do you still go to church with your partner, or are you completely done?

(2) Do you allow your children to participate (mutual, etc.)?

(3) What about ward activities? Who goes, who stays?

Any input from anyone that has dealt with this subject would be very appreciated.

This was not my experience (we both walked together), but is worth sharing. "The Spirit" moves in mysterous ways!

I have contact with a High Councillor who is (by my judgement) close to ready to leave. He had occasion to roast a PH hoder who gave a rather unusual PH blessing to a member wife, with respect to her never-Mo hubby. She had approached the HC upset after she received a blessing along the lines that if he (her hubby) did not join the Church, that he should die, and make way for her to "receive all the blessings of the Priesthood in their home".

Marvellous what some people feel the Spirit guide them to do, isn't it?

Daryl

[noodle]

I personally would like to hear from someone who has dealt with the one spouse in / one spouse out of the church and how it was handled.

In my case, and I believe Paul's case as well, both partners were pretty much in agreement when it was time to "be done". It creates many problems that I have never dealt with or even thought about until now:

(1) Do you still go to church with your partner, or are you completely done?

(2) Do you allow your children to participate (mutual, etc.)?

(3) What about ward activities? Who goes, who stays?

Any input from anyone that has dealt with this subject would be very appreciated.

Well, here goes my response.

(1) Neither of us attend, but my husband was the first to quit. In all honesty, I was angry about him not going for several years. I would go each Sunday, "dutifully" teach my primary or YW class, and I resented the hell out of it. Really unhealthy. More and more, I hated Sundays. I got depressed, and then somewhere along the way, the light went on...I said, hey, I don't have to do this. It was a process taking several years. I remember the first time I purposefully stayed home from church. It was so cathartic! Then the next week I did the same. It got easier as the weeks passed.

(2) & (3) After several years of inactivity, my oldest son, who was in 10th grade at the time, decided to go to seminary (a girlfriend was there). We allowed him to make that choice. He became fully active again, and went on to serve a mission, which we supported. We told him that while we didn't believe in the teachings of the church, we would support him (financially as well) if that was what he chose to do. He fully knows our stance, and hasn't tried to "reactivate" us. Our youngest son, who was never baptized, was asked on several occasions to attend some church functions (skiing, bowling, etc). We allowed him, and he seemed to have fun. Eventually, he lost interest on his own, mostly because he is so busy with his own activites. He has seemed to migrate towards his non-LDS friends over the last 2 years. Our daughter, the middle child, quit going to church before I did, and has never been interested since. She is dating a RM who has also left the church.

[pokatator]

First, I personally am an advocate for taking the slow and gentle approach out, (though others have argued convincingly for the "crash out" strategy). I am inclined to believe that if you move slowly, it gives people in your world time to make small adjustments to you, kind of like the frog in the boiling water parable (turned on it's ear). We've observed it in our family...people ARE beginning to notice, now that we've been out five years, but most people are still kind of wondering what ever happened to us? So for me, thought number 1 is: Evolve slowly enough that other people have time to evolve along with you.

I really liked your response. I went out totally the opposite. I was approached in a manner that I would describe as militant by my now ex-wife, 2 bishops and a stake president. Their tactics were deplorable. So I left after giving my "testimony" in a meeting and bascially Ex-communicated myself by refusing to sustain both the "profit" and the "prophet" of the church. I had 4 generations of family plus all the miltant players in attendance.

Looking back I wished I could have done it quieter/slower (for my immediate familys sack) but their (the militants) approach really didn't allow that. I still had a big influence on many people, its been 18 years, I still live in the same location and I still meet the "ward" all the time. One thing for sure no one has to wonder what ever happened to me. It's amazing how I can tell in an instant the ones totally afraid of me, the ones I bring doubts to in their minds, and of course the pious ones.

Choose your own way, pray about it, I am praying for you.

Randy

[nomomo]

I appreciate the responses given so far to my questions. Mentally I am "out" but still well-immersed otherwise. I do think I will take things slowly.

My mother, who initiated me into the church, is no longer in. My dad, who never once told me what he thought of the church when I was growing up--"It's a bunch of schlock" would have been a good thing to hear from him--accused me of believing everything anyone ever told me just a few years ago, when I was 30, quite some time after I had decided the church was pretty schlocky. This after I had rushed to my mother's side after a life-threatening heart attack. It was his parting shot to me as he drove me to the airport to return home. I was so angry I almost had a stroke. My dad had joined the church about 5 years earlier, mostly to appease my mom and to "solve" some marital difficulties they were having. His exit was of the non-graceful sort, intended to hurt my mom. Their example says to me that leaving the church or staying in isn't the big picture, either. If your marriage sucks then you are going to have issues in or out.

I'm not sure it would help to have my parents as allies in this. Especially since my DH's family would see it as the "proof" that when you come from a "spiritually broken family" you are doomed to leave. Isn't that one of the unwritten rules?

That said, I don't want to take things so slowly that I misrepresent what I really believe to my daughter. She deserves to know my side. But my husband would be happiest if my dissent was completely private. Obviously that's not reasonable, but I'm not sure how to make him <slowly> see my point of view without a lot of hostility and alienation.

Digression: I had a friend in Texas who was quite masterful at making "remarks" to her children that got them thinking on their own. Half of her kids are in and half out. Of course, in that ward, the Bishop begged me to just entertain the possibility that JS was a prophet and offered me a recommend on that contingency. And the bishop of the other ward we split from (dear friends, too) once said, after I asked about BOM "A Bible, a Bible..." passage, replied, "Oh, that's just Joseph Smith." Candy Store Mormon? Probably. My new ward here in Arizonie is full of uptight, controlling, conservative... Enough with the name-calling. Not quite so liberal here.

Hint dropping isn't really my approach because generally I am too blunt to pull that kind of thing off, and 7 year olds are not known for their own masterful higher-level thinking skills. They want it all black and white. But I have tried the Socratic method thing where when your child asks you the difficult questions, you say, "the church teaches you need to find out for yourself. So what do you think?"

Maybe I should learn to play piano. That's one of the best ways I've seen to avoid doctrinal issues altogether. :)

I am upset at myself for not being able to just tell my daughter I don't believe it. But I feel there's a tacit arrangement between my DH and I that I won't share those thoughts and feelings because they will be too "confusing" to her. I'm not happy with this arrangement, though.

That's where I'm at.

At the core is my husband, who is not ready to deal with the idea of me leaving the church. His parents are the kind of people I want to keep in my life, too. They have been a great support to me in my adulthood. But their paradigms are so staid. I believe our relationship is conditional on my being "one of the good ones" who stay in the church. The idea of losing them is scary.

My BIL has recently distanced himself from the church. He no longer attends. He is the object of a great deal of family discussion and prying (not praying, though on second thought, I'm sure my FIL is doing that non-stop).

I would like to hear from anyone who stayed successfully married to a spouse in the church after leaving. Especially a fairly devout one, like mine.
I still go every Sunday, hating almost every minute of if. (I kind of like RS.)

I probably sound spineless, but keep the thoughts rolling. I didn't mean for this to become a rambling essay. Yikes!