Hello and a funny story

[arbly]

Hello -
I have been lurking at your site a little lately. I have been inactive for 7 years now and am recently considering "resigning" from the church. Anyway - in regards to the recent temple ceremony changes, I have a funny story.

I was at my TBM inlaw's home last week and all the family (who is all TMB except for myself, DH and kids) were talking about how great the church was... blah, blah, blah, and how the church was now "telling the men to be more supportive of their wives". "They should not have any obilgations scheduled on "homemaking night", so they can watch the kids..." Anyway - I thought it was a perfect time to mention that I had read that there were some recent changes to the initiatory ceremony. I expected to be chastised for mentioning a temple ceremony, or at least bringin up tht it was CHANGING!. But no - this is the response I got...

"OH, I was talking with ___ who works in the temple and she was mentioning the recent changes and said they are just BEAUTIFUL!"

Hello - the changes are BEAUTIFUL - doesn't the fact that they are CHANGED even phase these people? Then my bil says "Oh, that will be nice to see on Saturday when we go to the temple."

So, my little remark that I meant to say to get them at least "thinking" outside the box, just didn't even phase them at all. They have heard they are beautiful and are excited about them.

How engrained can they possibly be? I am sure it can't get worse!

Thanks for listening to my little story, and thanks to all of you who post - it's made this site an interesting place for me to stop and check out.

[peter_mary]

Hello -
I have been lurking at your site a little lately. I have been inactive for 7 years now and am recently considering "resigning" from the church. Anyway - in regards to the recent temple ceremony changes, I have a funny story.

I was at my TBM inlaw's home last week and all the family (who is all TMB except for myself, DH and kids) were talking about how great the church was... blah, blah, blah, and how the church was now "telling the men to be more supportive of their wives". "They should not have any obilgations scheduled on "homemaking night", so they can watch the kids..." Anyway - I thought it was a perfect time to mention that I had read that there were some recent changes to the initiatory ceremony. I expected to be chastised for mentioning a temple ceremony, or at least bringin up tht it was CHANGING!. But no - this is the response I got...

"OH, I was talking with ___ who works in the temple and she was mentioning the recent changes and said they are just BEAUTIFUL!"

Hello - the changes are BEAUTIFUL - doesn't the fact that they are CHANGED even phase these people? Then my bil says "Oh, that will be nice to see on Saturday when we go to the temple."

So, my little remark that I meant to say to get them at least "thinking" outside the box, just didn't even phase them at all. They have heard they are beautiful and are excited about them.

How engrained can they possibly be? I am sure it can't get worse!

Thanks for listening to my little story, and thanks to all of you who post - it's made this site an interesting place for me to stop and check out.

See, your in-laws probably saw me, naked, standing under a slitted sheet, and had to dab water and oil on, among other things, my 'loins'...and this change seems BEAUTIFUL by comparrison! Nobody, but nobody, should have to see that... :D As in, "Oh my heck! This is SO much better! I can keep my dinner down, now!" :eek:

Thanks for sharing!

Paul

[free thinker]

When you are on the inside you just dont see it. It is a lot like the movie " The Village" . Out in the middle of the woods, surrounded by the modern world, and completetly oblivious to it! And the leaders are completely aware of what is going on.

I wonder if deep in the recesses of 50 E North Temple there are a couple of General Authorities sitting around at the end of a busy day saying to each other, " I gotta tell ya man, I can't believe how easy the whole temple change went over . I havn't heard a peep have you? " Nope, oh well, what can you say, sometimes things just kinda work out . Guess it all must be true eh " ? :Crazy:

Ha! Man what can ya do except just bow your head and say NO !! :cool:

Free Thinker

[tjohnson]

When you are on the inside you just dont see it. It is a lot like the movie " The Village" . Out in the middle of the woods, surrounded by the modern world, and completetly oblivious to it! And the leaders are completely aware of what is going on.

I wonder if deep in the recesses of 50 E North Temple there are a couple of General Authorities sitting around at the end of a busy day saying to each other, " I gotta tell ya man, I can't believe how easy the whole temple change went over . I havn't heard a peep have you? " Nope, oh well, what can you say, sometimes things just kinda work out . Guess it all must be true eh " ? :Crazy:

Ha! Man what can ya do except just bow your head and say NO !! :cool:

Free Thinker

I quite often have this discussion with my wife. I personally am convinced at least some of the GAs and possibily the prophet have knowledge that the church is not true. How far that extends is usually the conversation. She claims that maybe they are a lot like Joseph Smith... that they are so caught up in it, and live it every day, and see things happen that they can say came from the church, that they really do believe they are what they say they are... :Puking (finally get to use the puking one!)

What does anyone else think?

[Free-soil]

I quite often have this discussion with my wife. I personally am convinced at least some of the GAs and possibily the prophet have knowledge that the church is not true. How far that extends is usually the conversation. She claims that maybe they are a lot like Joseph Smith... that they are so caught up in it, and live it every day, and see things happen that they can say came from the church, that they really do believe they are what they say they are... :Puking (finally get to use the puking one!)

What does anyone else think?

I have had very similar conversations with my Father since I've left the church. They can't possibly believe it is all just as the RS manual teaches. I'm sure looking from the inside out, the organization become disenchanted and they see how much of the church is less "revelation" and more politics. Although, if you think about, it is no coincedence in my mind that most of the GA's are mormon back to the Bro. Brigham. on both sides of the family. They don't know anything else. Just as Daryl mentioned about the Amish kids, these men may not have the skills need to think outside the "mormon" box. Thus, "it must be true".

[Born Free]

I have had very similar conversations with my Father since I've left the church. They can't possibly believe it is all just as the RS manual teaches. I'm sure looking from the inside out, the organization become disenchanted and they see how much of the church is less "revelation" and more politics. Although, if you think about, it is no coincedence in my mind that most of the GA's are mormon back to the Bro. Brigham. on both sides of the family. They don't know anything else. Just as Daryl mentioned about the Amish kids, these men may not have the skills need to think outside the "mormon" box. Thus, "it must be true".

The other element here for those who are up teh heirarchy, is the seductiveness of power. When one levitates to a position of power, influence and recognition within the community, then the downside for saying "The King has No Clothes" gets high. Indeed, the complications of even taking time out to consider the possibility are very weighty.

At that point the person has a lot invested in staying on the bandwagon. There is a lot written and spoken about the perks of power, but little is written about the psychological price of ceasing to be "your own man". That is acid at the centre of the soul. And I would expect that that sellout has secondary effects - in that the person is more likely to disown the own sellout, and project any inner conflict outwards onto the powerless and the waverers.

Sick puppies!

Daryl

[pokatator]

How engrained can they possibly be? I am sure it can't get worse!



Kool-Aid, Kool-Aid, Tastes Great!
Kool-Aid, Kool-Aid, Can't Wait!

[silverfox]

Kool-Aid, Kool-Aid, Tastes Great!
Kool-Aid, Kool-Aid, Can't Wait!

LOL! I get this! (must show my age)

[dogzilla]

Mmmm. Kool Aid.

That's just BEAUTIFUL! :Puking

[miss taken]

I'm not an expert on temple ritual, and am glad they changed the bits they changed, because it smacked of psychological mind control to me, for all the wrong reasons, (i.e. fear) which puts us in a child like intellectual state all the time..

However, from the little I have read, the temple ritual (and garments), have been changing for years, and that the original temple ceremony was much much much... longer than today. All you born and bred LDS people could probably enlighten more...

I never felt at home in the temple, from the word go, never felt I belonged, and it all seemed a little strange.

What it did do, was send me into research on masonry and the origin of the masonic order which is another really interesting topic!!!!