Reading the Ensign so you don't have to

[noodle]

Sorry p_m, but I'm stealing your title and substituting "Ensign" instead of RSR. :p

Anyway, a neighbor "accidentally" left the June Ensign at my house (mixed in with some other stuff), and I couldn't resist taking a look through it since I haven't done so for 10 years or more. My hell, it hasn't changed a bit. Sorry if this offends any of you, but I can hardly believe that I bought into some of this crapola.

Take for instance this article on Dating versus Hanging Out by Dallin Oaks:

...This tendency to postpone adult responsibiliites, including marriage and family, is surely visible among our Latter-day Saint young adults. The average age at marriage has increased in the last few decades, and the number of children born to LDS married couples as decreased. It is timely to share some concerns about some current practices in the relationships of young LDS singles in North America.

He goes on to list contributing factors.

1. The cultural tides in our world run strongly against commitments in family relationships. For example, divorce has been made legally easy, and childbearing has become unpopular. These pressures against commitments obviously serve the devil's opposition to the Father's plan for His children...

So...the devil is in charge here. Cool. "Divorce has been made legally easy." I'm not sure that my divorced friends would agree with that statement. More factual is that marriage has been made legally easy, as well as popping out puppies before "parents" are mature enough to raise them. Perhaps the young adults have wisened up here.

2. The leveling effect of the women's movement has contributed to discourage dating. As women's options have increased and some women have become more aggressive, some men have become reluctant to take traditional male initiatives, such as asking for dates, lest they be thought to qualify for the dreaded label "male chauvinist."

Is it just me, or does anybody else find this offensive? Guess it's the "aggressive" part of me.

There is a 3rd and 4th point, but I won't get into those.

But get a load of this quote...

Men, if you have returned from your mission and you are still following the boy-girl patterns you were counseled to follow when you were 15, it is time for you to grow up. ... Start with a variety of dates with a variety of young women, and when that phase yields a good prospect, proceed to courtship. It's marriage time. That is what the Lord intends for His young adult sons and daughters. Men have the initiative, and you men should get on with it.

Whoa. Talk about pressure. I love the "you men" part.

My single young friends, we counsel you to channel your associations with the opposite sex into dating patterns that have the potential to mature into marriage, not hanging-out patterns that only have the prospect to mature into team sports like touch football. Marriage is not a group activity - at least, not until the children come along in goodly numbers.

Um...and what are "goodly numbers?"

And finally, The Prophet Joseph Smith taught this same thing in another way. When he was asked how he governed such a diverse group of Saints, he said, "I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves." In what I have just said, I am simply teaching correct principles and inviting each one of you to act upon these prinicples by governing yourself.

I love this. It's the old fundamentalist catch 22. Here are the rules. You can follow them or not. If not, you are out of the club, and your life will basically suck the big one (but we still luv you).

Oh, and he forgot to mention the correct priniciple of having multiple wives. :D

Anyway, just wanted to hear what the rest of you think about this article. Thought I'd try to stir things up a bit since it's summer (in the northern hemisphere) and I've been mostly absent - playing in my garden, working, etc. Anybody need some zucchini?

Peas, (I have those too)

mamajama

[bobcat]

What was the date on that Ensign article? That might be part of the reason why I've gotten more "suggestions" about marriage lately. After all, I turn 25 in a few weeks and I'm not married yet! Oh my god, I must be a sinner! I even had my parents' home teacher (and old friend of mine) feed me the following BS last week when I was unfortunate to be at their house when the HT's showed up: "[Bobcat], when you get to your new home, make sure you date a lot, and only date women that share your same values. After all, you'll want to marry a woman that shares the same values as you in the important areas."

I almost told him, "I will! And contempt towards organized religion is a value that I hold very dearly these days." But I resisted.

All of the worst, most manipulative lessons and council I ever received in my Mo days had to do with the subjects of marriage and family: women should be barefoot and pregnant; men should be the dominant party, women the submissive; it is a sin to not get married right after your mission. Stuff like that, I never bought into it. I have never had any desire to get married young, and I always took those lessons to be insensitive and rude. After all, the "inspired" council of the prophets doesn't take into account that some of us come from homes where our parents had the most f***ed up relationships ever, and have major trust issues as far as relationships go (or have any variety of reservations about that kind of stuff). Call me crazy and all, but I'd like to exorcise at least MOST of my demons before I take such a big step.

So that's my take. Thanks for sharing this, mamajama.

[Jeff_Ricks]

Sorry p_m, but I'm stealing your title and substituting "Ensign" instead of RSR. :p

Anyway, a neighbor "accidentally" left the June Ensign at my house (mixed in with some other stuff), and I couldn't resist taking a look through it since I haven't done so for 10 years or more. My hell, it hasn't changed a bit. Sorry if this offends any of you, but I can hardly believe that I bought into some of this crapola.

Take for instance this article on Dating versus Hanging Out by Dallin Oaks:



He goes on to list contributing factors.



So...the devil is in charge here. Cool. "Divorce has been made legally easy." I'm not sure that my divorced friends would agree with that statement. More factual is that marriage has been made legally easy, as well as popping out puppies before "parents" are mature enough to raise them. Perhaps the young adults have wisened up here.



Is it just me, or does anybody else find this offensive? Guess it's the "aggressive" part of me.

There is a 3rd and 4th point, but I won't get into those.

But get a load of this quote...



Whoa. Talk about pressure. I love the "you men" part.



Um...and what are "goodly numbers?"

And finally,

I love this. It's the old fundamentalist catch 22. Here are the rules. You can follow them or not. If not, you are out of the club, and your life will basically suck the big one (but we still luv you).

Oh, and he forgot to mention the correct priniciple of having multiple wives. :D

Anyway, just wanted to hear what the rest of you think about this article. Thought I'd try to stir things up a bit since it's summer (in the northern hemisphere) and I've been mostly absent - playing in my garden, working, etc. Anybody need some zucchini?

Peas, (I have those too)

mamajamaIs this a current issue of Ensign? If so it sickens and angers me to see that the crutch (I mean church) is still pushing hard for young people to rush into marriage and rush into having babies in "goodly numbers." I'm divorced because of that very reason. When my mission was over and I had my last interview with the mission president, he told me that my next duty to The Lord (meaning the church) is to get married in the temple. When I got home and had my debriefing interview with the stake president he told me the same thing. Then there was the eye's of everyone in my ward and family who I felt were constantly looking to see if I was dating and when I was going to get married. The net result was that I met a girl a couple of days after I got home and was engaged just six weeks later. That's insane! But apparently that's what the church is still pushing young men and women to do...for the benefit of the church, not for the benefit of the young people. I am so glad that I got my children out of that cycle and feel badly for anyone with children that are stll in it.

The Mormon Church continues to be a selfish, self-serving organization. In some ways I see it as a big machine and the leaders as people shoveling fuel into that machine to keep it going. And that fuel is the lives and potential of people that it uses up for it's own purposes, while constantly "reminding" them that they're happy to let it. "Put your shoulder to the wheel; who's on the Lord's side, endure to the end." :Puking :Puking

Jeff

[noodle]

This would be from the JUNE 2006 Ensign. I told you...it hasn't changed a bit.

mamajama

[helemon]

I met a girl a couple of days after I got home and was engaged just six weeks later. That's insane!

But according to SWK any two people with the spirit of Christ can make a marriage work! :duh

[noodle]

After all, I turn 25 in a few weeks and I'm not married yet! Oh my god, I must be a sinner!

Bobcat, I hate to break it to you, but here goes...
Not only are you a sinner, you are a MENACE TO SOCIETY!:D

I have a son who is just younger than you by a year or so. He did the missionary thing, and I went with him to his debriefing after he returned. I was appalled that he was told that "it is time to begin the search for your eternal mate." :Puking I have worked so hard to discourage him from jumping into a relationship just because the church says that he needs to. He really feels the pressure. Almost all of his missionary companions have married, and many have kids. Luckily, like you, he is moving out of the state (Utah) for grad school. I just hope that he will befriend fellow students from a variety of cultures and backgrounds, and not just stick with church people because it is comfortable.

mamajama

[noodle]

Why do I torture myself? ;) I continue to be amused with another article in the same Ensign. The first two steps (of the six listed) in keeping your marriage strong are these:

1. Attend the temple together.

2. Help each other in Church callings.

Wow. It's all about the church, huh? I woulda thought that something like RESPECT might rank as #1 (Aretha had it right). :cool:

[peter_mary]

mamajama, Thanks for reading this tripe "so we don't have to!" Good grief...

I particularly loved this quote:
2. The leveling effect of the women's movement has contributed to discourage dating.
Apparently, the "leveling" of the genders is a bad thing. ARRGGGHHH!!! Two steps forward and three steps back...

[nate]

This tendency to postpone adult responsibiliites, including marriage and family, is surely visible among our Latter-day Saint young adults

Or maybe they AREN'T postponing their "adult responsibilities". Maybe... MAYBE your archaic, authoritarian, chauvinist, accountability and agency stealing religion is postponing their adultHOOD!

Huh? Huh? What do ya think, Dallin, you free thinking feminist-hating wannabe tyrant, you!

Oh wait...that's exactly what you want, isn't it? You know full well that marraige doesn't cause maturity. Shame them into it early and you gain control over the entire family unit, and they will forever continue to see you as a father figure. Good thinkin'!

Nate

[helemon]

Oh wait...that's exactly what you want, isn't it? You know full well that marraige doesn't cause maturity. Shame them into it early and you gain control over the entire family unit, and they will forever continue to see you as a father figure. Good thinkin'!

Nate

That is exactly what I hate most about religion. These guys stand up and spout off at the mouth like they have the truth but they never back up their assertions with anything more than empty promises and the occasional unverifiable anecdote. Why in the hell should anyone trust what these men have to say? Oh yeah, because they think God will toast their ass if they don't. :duh

[Born Free]

Quote:
'This tendency to postpone adult responsibilities, including marriage and family, is surely visible among our Latter-day Saint young adults.'

From a Mormon perspective, this probably appears a reasonable statement. From a Post-Mo perspective it looks more like:

'This tendency to postpone adult responsibilities, including marriage and family, until you are actually an adult yourself, is surely rare among our Latter-day Saint young adults. Being physically capable of reproduction does not make a person ready for the responsibility of parenthood.

This is particularly problematic as adulthood is a state rarely achieved in Mormondom. Few are considered mature enough to 'eat-meat' or to weather the challenges of the real world, before it is put through the 'faith-promoting' filter. Surely a person too immature for same, is far from ready for the challenges of parenthood.'

Daryl