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View Full Version : Lying for the Lord is like the sex offender


Jeff_Ricks
28th July 2006, 10:47 AM
This morning in another thread I posted some statements by Dallin Oaks on why it’s okay to lie to protect the reputation of Church leaders. While driving to work it occurred to me how similar that type of thinking and rationalization is similar to the sex offender dynamic. For example, in the case of the sex offender, it’s in his best interest for the victim and any others who might be aware of his little indiscretion to keep quiet about it. He, and any enablers he might have to cover his rear end, try to make the victim feel guilty for ruining his reputation were they to tell. In the Mormon dynamic, I see the Church as the perpetrator, the church leaders as the enabler, and the members as the victim (church leaders are also to a degree victims, but this too is similar to the sex offender dynamic in that the enablers are also used and victimized by the offender). In this light take a look at the following statements by church enablers…I mean leaders.


Apostle Dallin Oaks:

"My duty as a member of the Council of the Twelve is to protect what is most unique about the LDS church, namely the authority of priesthood, testimony regarding the restoration of the gospel, and the divine mission of the Savior. Everything may be sacrificed in order to maintain the integrity of those essential facts. Thus, if Mormon Enigma reveals information that is detrimental to the reputation of Joseph Smith, then it is necessary to try to limit its influence and that of its authors."
- Apostle Dallin Oaks, footnote 28, Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith: Psychobiography and the Book of Mormon, Introduction p. xliii

Apostle Boyd K. Packer:

“That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith — particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith — places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities. ... Do not spread disease germs!"
- Apostle Boyd K. Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect", 1981, BYU Studies, Vol. 21, No. 3, pp. 259-271

Apostle Russel M. Nelson:

"Indeed, in some instances, the merciful companion to truth is silence. Some truths are best left unsaid." :lftl:

"Any who are tempted to rake through the annals of history, to use truth unrighteously, or to dig up facts with the intent to defame or destroy, should hearken to this warning of scripture:

“The righteousness of God [is] revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.” (Rom. 1:17-18.)

I repeat: “The wrath of God is … against all … who hold the truth in unrighteousness.”

To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter against the Lord and his anointed, weigh carefully your action in light of this sacred scripture:

“These dissenters, having the same instruction and the same information … yea, having been instructed in the same knowledge of the Lord, nevertheless, it is strange to relate, not long after their dissensions they became more hardened and impenitent, and … wicked, … entirely forgetting the Lord their God.” (Alma 47:36.)

- Apostle Russell M. Nelson, “Truth—and More,” Ensign, Jan. 1986, page 69


"It is one thing to depreciate a person who exercises corporate power or even government power. It is quite another thing to criticize or depreciate a person for the performance of an office to which he or she has been called of God. It does not matter that the criticism is true. :lftl: As Elder George F. Richards, President of the Council of the Twelve, said in a conference address in April 1947, 'when we say anything bad about the leaders of the Church, whether true or false, we tend to impair their influence and their usefulness and are thus working against the Lord and his cause.' ... The Holy Ghost will not guide or confirm criticism of the Lord's anointed, or of Church leaders, local or general. This reality should be part of the spiritual evaluation that LDS readers and viewers apply to those things written about our history and those who made it."
- Apostle Dallin H. Oaks, "Reading Church History," CES Doctrine and Covenants Symposium, Brigham Young University, 16 Aug. 1985, page 25. also see Dallin H. Oaks, "Elder Decries Criticism of LDS Leaders," quoted in The Salt Lake Tribune, Sunday August 18, 1985, p. 2B

Apostle Dallin H. Oaks published a similar talk for the February 1987 Ensign Magazine. Again, Apostle Oaks declared that there is no place in the church for public criticism of church leaders, even if the criticism is true. He also said:

"Truth surely exists as an absolute, but our use of truth should be disciplined by other values. ... When truth is constrained by other virtues, the outcome is not falsehood but silence for a season. :lftl: As the scriptures say, there is “a time to keep silence, and a time to speak.”

"Does the commandment to avoid faultfinding and evil speaking apply to Church members’ destructive personal criticism of Church leaders? Of course it does. It applies to criticism of all Church leaders—local or general, male or female. In our relations with all of our Church leaders, we should follow the Apostle Paul’s direction: “Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father.” (1 Tim. 5:1.)"

"Government or corporate officials, who are elected directly or indirectly or appointed by majority vote, must expect that their performance will be subject to critical and public evaluations by their constituents...A different principle applies in our Church, where the selection of leaders is based on revelation, subject to the sustaining vote of the membership. In our system of Church government, evil speaking and criticism of leaders by members is always negative. Whether the criticism is true or not." :lftl:

"Public debate—the means of resolving differences in a democratic government—is not appropriate in our Church government. We are all subject to the authority of the called and sustained servants of the Lord. They and we are all governed by the direction of the Spirit of the Lord, and that Spirit only functions in an atmosphere of unity. That is why personal differences about Church doctrine or procedure need to be worked out privately."
- Apostle Dallin H. Oaks, “Criticism,” Ensign, Feb. 1987, page 68

“You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself, with patience and faith, the promise is that ‘the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.’ (DC 21:6)”
- Prophet Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, Oct. 1970, p. 152

In my opinion, in any case where people are constrained to keep quiet about some unpleasant truth then someone is being victimized by the silence. And lying for the Lord is no different. As long as the lies continue and the perpetrator is protected the victimization will continue. Do you see how this scenario is happening in the church?

Jeff

helemon
28th July 2006, 03:55 PM
It is no wonder then that all sustaining "votes" are unanimous. To vote otherwise would be considered speaking evil about the Lords annointed and would put the person in danger of hell fire! :rant:

Born Free
28th July 2006, 07:23 PM
""Truth surely exists as an absolute, but our use of truth should be disciplined by other values. ... When truth is constrained by other virtues, the outcome is not falsehood but silence for a season. As the scriptures say, there is “a time to keep silence, and a time to speak.”

"Does the commandment to avoid faultfinding and evil speaking apply to Church members’ destructive personal criticism of Church leaders? Of course it does. It applies to criticism of all Church leaders—local or general, male or female. In our relations with all of our Church leaders, we should follow the Apostle Paul’s direction: “Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father.” (1 Tim. 5:1.)"

"Government or corporate officials, who are elected directly or indirectly or appointed by majority vote, must expect that their performance will be subject to critical and public evaluations by their constituents...A different principle applies in our Church, where the selection of leaders is based on revelation, subject to the sustaining vote of the membership. In our system of Church government, evil speaking and criticism of leaders by members is always negative. Whether the criticism is true or not."

"Public debate—the means of resolving differences in a democratic government—is not appropriate in our Church government. We are all subject to the authority of the called and sustained servants of the Lord. They and we are all governed by the direction of the Spirit of the Lord, and that Spirit only functions in an atmosphere of unity. That is why personal differences about Church doctrine or procedure need to be worked out privately."
- Apostle Dallin H. Oaks, “Criticism,” Ensign, Feb. 1987, page 68"

Ah, the logic of those who would deceive! Just look at the above and the inconsistencies it contains.

Oak quotes scripture that "there is “a time to keep silence, and a time to speak", then immediately proceeds to espouse 'there is “a time to keep silence, and there is a time to keep silence"'. Does he take his audience for idiots? Maybe, and maybe it is justified! ;)

Jeff, thanks for assembling that little collection. It illustrates how flimsy their case. Let's just cast a brief look around history for other figures who worked out of a similar policy. You come up with a really choice gallery of rogues, don't you? Hitler and Stalin are amongst the first to come to mind.

I can't recall the location of the Old Testament incident where one of the prophets was reported to have wrestled and argued with God Almighty, and supposedly God was convinced to shift His position. But here are some aspirants to more Power, hustling for promotion, by pointing to the guys in the inner sanctum (the Good Ol' Boys), and saying 'they can do no wrong'.

I am reminded of the criticism made of the management style of the guy who was Bush's nomination to the UN, described as 'Kiss up; kick down'.

The verbal gooblidook of some of these statements is amazing. And you thought the Y in YM and YW stood for Young. More the fool; its for 'Yes'. Yes Sir, No Sir, three bags full, Sir! Yes Men and Yes Women.

Of course, one could transport the same logic down to that smallest unit of 'government': the family. So, presumably if Mum opines a voice that differs with Dad's, then she is not being faithful, she is undermining 'unity', and becomes by extension, a servant of the Satan. God, spare me. It is Saturday here and I have just had breakfast, and this load of tripe is nearly enough to bring breakfast up. And to think I swallowed this drivel at one point, without laughing out loud.

Daryl

helemon
28th July 2006, 07:48 PM
And to think I swallowed this drivel at one point, without laughing out loud.

Daryl

I have a feeling we are going to be hearing more of this message in the months and years to come as the church tries to do damage control and keep its skeletons in the closet or at least try to ignore the elephants in the room while they blame laging membership on growing prosperity.

elder_nomo
28th July 2006, 08:12 PM
Yes, thanks, Jeff, for gathering these quotes. Each one is fairly outrageous on its own, but taken collectively, they are quite stunning.
Truth takes a back seat to expedience.

My personal favorites...
To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter...
I could understand if the issue was with dissension stemming from lies or manipulation or willful deceit, but this is a warning not to be influenced by truth! :eek:

Any who are tempted to rake through the annals of history, to use truth unrighteously, or to dig up facts with the intent to defame or destroy...
OK, I don't care what your intentions are... shouldn't the truth stand on its own? If the church has nothing to be ashamed of, why would it be afraid of historical research or the digging up of FACTS?
And just how does one use truth "unrighteously" anyway? I suppose that means "without approved whitewash"... :Puking

Jeff_Ricks
28th July 2006, 08:58 PM
Yes, thanks, Jeff, for gathering these quotes. Each one is fairly outrageous on its own, but taken collectively, they are quite stunning.
Truth takes a back seat to expedience.

My personal favorites...
To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter...
I could understand if the issue was with dissension stemming from lies or manipulation or willful deceit, but this is a warning not to be influenced by truth! :eek:

Any who are tempted to rake through the annals of history, to use truth unrighteously, or to dig up facts with the intent to defame or destroy...
OK, I don't care what your intentions are... shouldn't the truth stand on its own? If the church has nothing to be ashamed of, why would it be afraid of historical research or the digging up of FACTS?
And just how does one use truth "unrighteously" anyway? I suppose that means "without approved whitewash"... :PukingIsn’t ironic how throughout the history of the church it has made such a big deal about how it is the true church and how through it the truth has been restored, when in reality, when it comes to their royal asses, they are afraid to let the truth speak for itself.

I should mention that I came across the quotes on a website and should have given credit to it for assembling the quotes. Can’t find the reference now though.

Jeff

Born Free
30th July 2006, 08:07 PM
Last night an ex-member friend rang after reading Leaving the Saints.

Something she said reminded me of the words of that Mormon song that is probably one of the positive legacies of Mormonism that persists with many of us.

It is a value that sits in marked contrast to the predominant philosophy observed in these Mormon leaders statements, which I see as more like:

Do what is expedient to maintain the appearance that Mormonism is right; right up to and including doing what is wrong, lying, concealing and coercing.

Sorry, it needs a lot of work to get it to rhyme anything like the original.

Daryl

PS: Here's a rushed attempt:
Do what is 'nice'
Let perception prevail

Battle for image
Its all that we've got

THat could be a problematic hymn to have hanging around mind-shaping kids to not accept the 'faithful' version of history. You think that one might get amended or disappear?

Jeff_Ricks
30th July 2006, 10:41 PM
...
THat could be a problematic hymn to have hanging around mind-shaping kids to not accept the 'faithful' version of history. You think that one might get amended or disappear?I'm thinking that they'll change it to something like:

Do what you're told,
or consequences will follow.

;)

Born Free
30th July 2006, 10:53 PM
I'm thinking that they'll change it to something like:

Do what you're told,
or consequences will follow.

;)

Follow your file leader,
as the way to get on.

Hey, this is fun! :rolleyes:

Daryl