Question regarding name removal...

[jmkm]

Hi! I just discovered this website. I'm not sure why I hadn't found it before. I love the home page. I was reading it to my husband and the statement is so "us". My question is this, and I'm sorry if it's been asked before. I haven't gone through and read every post: Do you feel that it is better to have your name removed from the church records, or to just not care about it? Somehow I know they will always have records of us whether they "remove" our names or not. I want to "not care", but I do. I think it would be cleansing, but is it really necessary to have our names removed to move beyond mormonism? Why do I have to get permission to do anything? If I say I'm not mormon doesn't that mean I'm not, or is it a true legal issue?

[b_hedshiz]

Do you feel that it is better to have your name removed from the church records, or to just not care about it?
That is a question that I think each person must answer on their own. Some people feel that it doesn't matter what the church thinks, if they stop going, they aren't Mormon anymore and the church can do whatever it wants. Some people also stay on the rolls to avoid family conflicts.

Others choose to leave as a matter of principle. Some want to send a message to the church that they don't buy it any more. Some also resign to avoid the possibility of excommunication. They want to avoid the stigma that the church might try to pin on them.

If you do choose to leave, you can visit http://www.mormonnomore.com/ to get information on how the process works. That way you will be within your legal rights and can avoid problems over-zealous bishops can cause.

I wish you the best in your decision.

[Jeff_Ricks]

Hi! I just discovered this website. I'm not sure why I hadn't found it before. I love the home page.

Thanks for the positive feeback on the website. Probably the reason you've not seen if before is because it's only been up since mid October. The previous Post-Mormon.com website was first put up over two years ago but this new version is just that -- new. :)

Jeff

[jmkm]

Thanks! I have checked out the website regarding name removal. I wonder what implications that will have on my husbands family? I know they love us unconditionaly, but I'm sure it would stress them out a great deal. My family is not LDS, and they aren't religious either. They thought my choice to become Mormon was weird, but they supported me. I really feel sorry for my husband, he was born into it, he didn't really have a choice. I am horrified that I participated in and fell for all the weirdness. (everything) I wish I had the courage to walk out years ago, instead of feeling like there was something wrong with me. Your site truly is beautiful though. And I do appreciate my LDS friends and I hope they can support me in my decision to back away from something I don't believe in, and never really did. This site does a lot to promote that we (the people that aren't interested anymore) aren't creepy, weirdo convicts, that sit around all day and sin, sin, sin. See Ya! I'll be checking back! (we are in MT)

[silverfox]

Hi! I just discovered this website. I'm not sure why I hadn't found it before. I love the home page. I was reading it to my husband and the statement is so "us". My question is this, and I'm sorry if it's been asked before. I haven't gone through and read every post: Do you feel that it is better to have your name removed from the church records, or to just not care about it? Somehow I know they will always have records of us whether they "remove" our names or not. I want to "not care", but I do. I think it would be cleansing, but is it really necessary to have our names removed to move beyond mormonism? Why do I have to get permission to do anything? If I say I'm not mormon doesn't that mean I'm not, or is it a true legal issue?

I am having my name removed only to avoid any potential "courts of love". I speak openly about my beliefs (or non beliefs as the church would view it). Doing so puts one at risk of being called to a court of love. If one of my TBM friends complains to our bish I will called in for "questioning" and most likely a court. They will automatically ex me if I don't show up from what I understand or at least disfellowship me. I think it's a personal choice whether to formally withdraw your membership but I don't want them to ever ever EVER have the satisfaction of ex'ing me.

If you do decide to write a letter, go to "http://www.mormonnomore.com/" and follow their steps to ensure it is handled properly. In the past the church has automatically called a court for those members asking to have their name removed so there is a legal process to follow. The church wants to ex members for not believing. Things may have changed but I think it all depends on your local leaders. Ours are nazi like and very controlling.

If you haven't been participating for a number of years and are pretty much unknown to your ward and local leaders there is probably no point to officially resigning. Again, it's just a personal choice. To me I feel I need it emotionally to completely let go.

Best wishes :)

[Nate]

Yes, some can be like Nazis and be very controlling and overzealous. I remember when I was 17, and I made my first attempt to get my name "removed".

I was told that I was not old nor mature enough to make a decision of that magnitude. Pretty silly when age 8 is the age of accountability, eh? haha.

I agree that this is a question that each must answer on their own. However, it might be a good decision if you don't want to be bothered by the church. I've moved several times over the last 10 years, city to city, state to state, (for employment reasons, not the church) and without fail, within a few weeks of each move I have the elder's quorum of the local ward knocking at my door. It's incredible how fast they find you! Creepy, but really quite amazing really. Many times the church had my new address faster than my family and friends did. Nazi indeed.

[jmkm]

It is creepy! My husband's brother doesn't go to church either, and he has moved several times in the past couple of years. They have called us three times asking for his phone number and address. I wouldn't give it to them. It makes me wonder who they've gotten in touch with about us and where we are? They obviously know who we're all related to. :eek:

[silverfox]

It is creepy! My husband's brother doesn't go to church either, and he has moved several times in the past couple of years. They have called us three times asking for his phone number and address. I wouldn't give it to them. It makes me wonder who they've gotten in touch with about us and where we are? They obviously know who we're all related to. :eek:

They go to any length.....my neighbor, NEIGHBOR not family and only a neighbor for a couple years and we didn't know each that well got a call from the church office building......they were asking her for MY MOTHER'S name and phone number. My mother is not and has never been a member. My mother and I don't even speak and they were asking my neighbor for that kinds of personal information. Very creepy indeed. I wonder what other neighbors they've called and asked questions about me. Freaks me out. I know by removing my name it won't stop this but at least I have legal leverage if it comes to that. I need to move out of this state. I also demanded in my resignation letter that no member NO member meet alone or communicate alone with any of my minor children. I won't have them manipulating them against me or anything. It happens, I've seen it. "Oh poor you your mom isn't a member anymore. We must pray for her....blah blah blah..." puke, puke, puke.

[dogzilla]

I was in the "don't care" camp for many, many years and I finally did the official thing and had my name removed. For one, if they still have you on the list, there will always be some newbie assigned to HT or VT the inactives. I've moved to three different states, in at least six different cities, and like the darn Victoria's Secret catalog, they kept finding me! (I swear you could go away on vacation for a weekend and Victoria's Secret would hunt you down and leave a catalog at your hotel room. They're like Mormons in that way. And they have special underwear too! :eek: :D )

My concerns now are two-fold. Since the Church clearly does not care about our consitutional rights to privacy, how do I know they won't "out" me to my dad? See, I believe he's ratted me out more than once, in terms of having my records forwarded to the next ward I moved to. What happens next time I move or change wards and dad tries to "help" me out by having my records forwarded on, only to find out... there are no records any more. I will tell my dad about my decision to have my name removed when the time is right and when I am good and darned ready, and not one minute before. I have a sneaking suspicion that I'll be "outed" before I have a chance to think about how to best approach the subject with my dad, who will probably be heartbroken.

I can't remember what my second concern is now. Sorry. I'll come back and post again if I remember what it was! (Clearly, it's not that big a deal.)

[jmkm]

I have my letter written, and addressed...but...I'm waiting. My husband doesn't care if I send it in. It includes our children, and although they are 8 and 10 and haven't been baptized...so they really aren't members, they have been blessed, and so are on member records. Anyway...he is not ready to have his name removed. He thinks it would disturb his parents too much.

And I like our bishop a lot. I think part of our resistance to sending in that letter is the fear of hurting other people. When the missionaries come over, I actually feel bad for them, because I know they are rejected constantly. As for our bishop, I know that he is someone who would actually be really sad if I were to say we want to have our names removed.

At the same time I want to do it so that I can move past it. I don't even care if they DON'T stop bothering us, I just wish they'd call before they came.

It's funny because they come in, and we talk to them because we feel bad for them, and how uncomfortable they must feel. I wonder what they think when they leave, and find out that we aren't horrible, wicked people, but professional, and normal...and our kids are well behaved...even without god.

This is long winded and disjointed...but I'm thinking.

[peter_mary]

And I like our bishop a lot. I think part of our resistance to sending in that letter is the fear of hurting other people.

The reasons you state are 99% of the reason why we've not yet resigned...it would be hurtful to others, and it frankly just doesn't matter to us...AT ALL. But I know from first hand knowledge that aside from family (who are obvious candidates for broken hearts), Bishops can also take it personally, and if you happen to like him, then it's especially hard.

When I decided I was done, I was in the Bishopric. I had only served a year, and in fact, the Bishopric into which I was called is still serving, though its past 5 years. Anyway, I was called because our Bishop felt he needed "balance" in the leadership of the Ward, and he knew I would provide that. He really believed he was inspired to call me. And when I asked for a release, it broke his heart, and sent him scrambling to his knees to try to figure out what went wrong. It made no sense to him that God would have him call me if I wasn't going to be the guy for the job. It was a crisis of his faith...and in the process, he has been unable to have a relationship with me at all, despite the fact that we worked so closely for that year. I think it's too troubling. If he has to process my resignation letter, too, I know it would hurt him.

I've had some Bishops that I wouldn't care about, but I know this guy's heart is in the right place, and he really does give his all to do what he believes is what God would have him do. It's pretty sad, really...I feel sorry for him because he worries about me so much, and yet he cannot accept how happy I am. It simply won't compute in his brain. So I have to shrug my shoulders and acknowledge that all that hurt is his and his alone, and move on. But compassion is such an important part of my world view that I do make every effort not to hurt people when it isn't necessary.

Paul

[silverfox]

I just got off the phone with member records in Salt Lake. I had sent in my letter on Dec 14th. Got my Invitation to come back pamphlet (tender) and my letter warning of the consequences.

Anyway, the gentleman informed me that my bishop should have done something with that letter by now and that he is going to call him and have him process the request.

I didn't get huffy or mean or anything. I kept it upbeat although I am quite peeved at their whole process. (grrrr)

My bish lives kiddy corner behind me...the corners of our yards touch. I believe it's our nazi stake prez dragging his feet. He likes control.

One Sunday he got up and scorned the ward for being late for sacrament. He informed us that he would start LOCKING the doors to the chapel at exactly 9:00 and that sacrament would NOT be allowed to be passed in the foyer. That if HIS wife could get up and get 5 kids ready and be there on time so could every one else. (I've always wondered what dosage of Prozac she is on)

And sure enough he carried out his threat until he got busted. This lasted about 3 weeks. Unbelievable. I got lots of stories like that about him. icky caca

Anyway, the next step the church office says is I am supposed to be getting a letter from my bish and then one from the church office building.

We'll see.

Edited to add - because hubby and kids will remain members I know I will never be free of them. Even if we all resign they will track us down. I did request in my letter that NO member was allowed to be alone with my kids EVER under no circumstances and they were not to call my home talking to them without our permission. Who has control now?

I just worry about them calling hubby and asking HIM if they can call, etc, etc, etc. Or trying to worm their way into this trust. grrrrrrrrrrr I am on guard all the time and I hate it. HATE IT.

[mutleydog]

I wrote my resignation and sent it to my bishop after about a year of officially leaving (from my point of view), but heard absolutely nothing......not even a phone call. I am not sure whether I am still on the records or not or whether they just ignored my letter. I have moved since, still in the same stake though, changed my phone number and put on ex-directory so no-one could find me.

I felt I needed to make that final break and not live with the possibly of having a letter asking me to a church court etc. I was not going to put myself through that humiliation.

[pomo]

I just got off the phone with member records in Salt Lake. I had sent in my letter on Dec 14th. Got my Invitation to come back pamphlet (tender) and my letter warning of the consequences.

Anyway, the gentleman informed me that my bishop should have done something with that letter by now and that he is going to call him and have him process the request.

I didn't get huffy or mean or anything. I kept it upbeat although I am quite peeved at their whole process. (grrrr) grrrrrrrrrrr I am on guard all the time and I hate it. HATE IT.

We are basically in the same boat, except for the fact that I resigned on September 11th of last year, and still have not yet recieved my "official" letter. I've been visited three times by my bishop, and an area authority pleading with me not to resign and promising to honor my wishes. I got a letter from him telling me that I had 30 days to reconsider, about 2 months ago. I called Mike Wood last week at Member records. He told me he was slammed, but that nothing had happened with my resignation and he would get ahold of my Stake President and "rattle his chain".
We'll see.
The reasons I decided it was necessary to resign are numerous, but mainly because I felt threatened with discipline for excercising my constitutional rights of freedom of speech, association and religion. Once I realized what a racist, sexist, bigoted organization I belonged to, my conscience would not allow me to remain silent and would not allow me to raise my children in an organization that teaches that dark skin is a curse, women are inferior to men and will be subjected to an eternity as a continually pregnant plural wife of her God husband, popping out spirit children for the rest of eternity, or that homosexuality was a sinfull choice despite the evidence to the contrary.
Bottom line was that I did not want to raise my children in a religion I felt was anything but christ-like.
But try explaining that to someone who thinks the whole history of civilization occured just to facilitate the restoration of the gospel and that we have a moral obligation to vote for the candidate that is most in touch with the will of God (Republican) so that the prophecies of the gospel spreading over the face of the earth can be fullfilled and zion can be established and the way prepared for the second coming of Jesus Christ, which is the message my Bishop sent out to all the members of the ward last October, disregarding the fact that we live in a blue state and that many people in his ward were free thinking independent individuals who believed their moral obligation was to promote peace instead of war, love instead of hate, and reason instead of ignorance and that we could accomplish more by de-emphasizing religion instead of escalating a holy war.

[Born Free]

Hi! I just discovered this website. I'm not sure why I hadn't found it before. I love the home page. I was reading it to my husband and the statement is so "us". My question is this, and I'm sorry if it's been asked before. I haven't gone through and read every post: Do you feel that it is better to have your name removed from the church records, or to just not care about it? Somehow I know they will always have records of us whether they "remove" our names or not. I want to "not care", but I do. I think it would be cleansing, but is it really necessary to have our names removed to move beyond mormonism? Why do I have to get permission to do anything? If I say I'm not mormon doesn't that mean I'm not, or is it a true legal issue?

jmkm,

I do a lot of work with separated men. It never fails to amaze me how many separated men and women do not formalize ther end of their marriage until they are ready to get married again! I see that while they remain 'married' to that person, there is a certain 'energetic' connection, even if only in their head. There is something clean about tidying up loose ends, not out of spitefullness, but about cleaning up ready to move on.

You said "I think it would be cleansing", and I believe that you are right.

If you have arrived at a point of not only not agreeing, but being in strong disagreement with an organisation, why woud you let them still run around claiming you as one of their membership, particularly as they want to claim that growth is proof of the divine nature of their organisation.

I have some friends who say, I don't care, AND I don't want to upset family.

They are 2 separate issues.

I suggest one exercise is to get clear how much you care about being claimed as a member of an org, who engages in the sort of deception that Mormonism does. Then, proceed to the 2nd phase,

I don't want to upset family! People have sold their life down the tube, trying to be accepted by family members. You are entitled to have your own values and world view, and then I would suggest, to live those values proudly and with confidence. That is the only way you can truely feel integrated - the inside matches the outside!

Will that have a price? Of course it will, but to pretend that the alternative does not, is naive. Whose life is this? IF you chose to go inactive and never get your name removed, what will that achieve? They will always be on your case. They will get to know of your inactivity, or observe your failure to wear TGs. You know the routine.

But be very clear about the cost to you of faking it. I have a sister-in-law who will have a coffee with us, but not with the TBM family members. She appears to be having her cake and eating it too! But I can only imagine the mental price such duplicity exacts. On one level she knows she is being two people. That sort of behaviour screws with your head, and exacts a heavy toll.

From my experience, I would suggest you do see clearly that if you do walk, many of the people you regard as friends will become very unfriendly. You will be shocked at first. It may even make you wonder whether you did the right thing. Then, hopefully, you will ask "What sort of friends were they, if they can turn that cold, just for my having a coffee, or deciding that the Church is not for you." Then, and only then, will you see how superficial much of so-called Mormon fellowship is, and you will wonder why you stayed around it for so many years.

I would encourage you to take the time to read more of the postings on this web site. It will sharpen your insight into the treatment you can expect when you leave, but more importantly get a stronger sense of the new way of being, that is beckoning.

And finally, you are not asking the Church for permission to leave. You are saying, in effect, I have weighed you, and YOU have been found wanting. What you say, and what you do are two very different things. What you present as your history and what really happened are two very, very different things. Look though history at who else laundered their history like that? Hitler, and Stalin are just two people who headed up appauling phases of history, who insisted on a "faith-promoting" version of history.

No this is not a legal issue. For my money, it is much bigger than that; it is a mental issue - its about your mental health.

Daryl