Will Mother Teresa be in the Celestial Kingdom?!

[miss taken]

This one got me set off many years ago, in a discussion with a RS President, who insisted that if she were not baptised in the LDS church (Mother Teresa), no matter how righteous she had been (and truly Christlike in my opinion), this woman was NOT going to the Celestial Kingdom.

I just never got it. I have often wondered about the origin of Christian Baptism before John the Baptist. Was he influenced by the Essenes, or some other group, or even through the silk trade to India and the Hindu practices of washing in the River Ganges.???

I understand it as a symbol, an outward ordinance of an inner change to be christ-like. As far as I could tell Jesus was telling us to be christ-like to follow his words in our personal lives. I always used to quote the NT case of those two guys baptising in Jesus' name, and the Apostles got very hung up about it, to be told off by Jesus, because they were losing the point about what baptism was all about. I think he said something like, if they are for me, they are not against me.

So.....I think, that a person can be christ-like without even being a christian. That being christ-like transends the person of Jesus of Nazereth, because it is a way of being. (Hope ya'll don't think I am being too blasphemous here - I know what I mean, but doesn't always come across well in print).

So, I think the LDS religion makes important something that is not important. That it is the manner of living that is imperative not the outward ordinance.

I don't think I'll be showing my little chitty to them people on the pearly gates, I just don't think that that is what it is all about..

[Born Free]

This one got me set off many years ago, in a discussion with a RS President, who insisted that if she were not baptised in the LDS church (Mother Teresa), no matter how righteous she had been (and truly Christlike in my opinion), this woman was NOT going to the Celestial Kingdom.

I just never got it. I have often wondered about the origin of Christian Baptism before John the Baptist. Was he influenced by the Essenes, or some other group, or even through the silk trade to India and the Hindu practices of washing in the River Ganges.???

I understand it as a symbol, an outward ordinance of an inner change to be christ-like. As far as I could tell Jesus was telling us to be christ-like to follow his words in our personal lives. I always used to quote the NT case of those two guys baptising in Jesus' name, and the Apostles got very hung up about it, to be told off by Jesus, because they were losing the point about what baptism was all about. I think he said something like, if they are for me, they are not against me.

So.....I think, that a person can be christ-like without even being a christian. That being christ-like transends the person of Jesus of Nazereth, because it is a way of being. (Hope ya'll don't think I am being too blasphemous here - I know what I mean, but doesn't always come across well in print).

So, I think the LDS religion makes important something that is not important. That it is the manner of living that is imperative not the outward ordinance.

I don't think I'll be showing my little chitty to them people on the pearly gates, I just don't think that that is what it is all about..

I have argued before that this is proof adequate that the Mormon God is an anal-retentive bean-counting clerk.

They think this makes them and their Church special and superiour. For my money, it is proof supreme of their world view and that they are still stuck in a pre-Christian Old Testament mentality.

[wescape]

Hi Miss Taken,

Your post highlights one of the most significant differences between Mormonism and Christianity. It all comes down to one's motivation. In Mormonism, people are motivated to "choose the right" primarily by guilt and pressure to make it to the celestial kingdom so they can become their own god/goddess.

The exact opposite is the case with true Christianity in which people are motivated by awe and gratitude for what Jesus has done for them on the cross.

In the Mormon system, there is really no need for a Savior because Mormons essentially save themselves through their own efforts to appease the Mormon god. I think Daryl summed up this god quite accurately as an "anal-retentive bean-counting clerk." I would add to his definition the words petty, cruel, manipulative, fickle, and infantile.

The Mormon system perpetuates self-righteousness and narcissism while genuine Christianity foster's love and humility (Christlikeness). Granted, Christians are deeply flawed and misrepresent the love of Christ often but that is exactly why we need him as Savior.

Mother Teresa was one of the most Christlike people I have ever seen. She loved people who were outcasts just like Jesus did. Does this mean she somehow attained perfection? I really don't think so. But I do believe she was overwhelmed by the love of a God who valued freedom so greatly that he allowed his own creation to murder him in order to save them. I think her breath was taken away by this selfless act of love and she couldn't help but give away her own life for the sake of others in response.

Anyway, your post obviously sparked my thinking and I could go on and on about a million other related things that are also being stirred in me. But it's getting late and I should get to bed. Thanks for your words. :)

Wes

[free thinker]

Hi Miss Taken,

Your post highlights one of the most significant differences between Mormonism and Christianity. It all comes down to one's motivation. In Mormonism, people are motivated to "choose the right" primarily by guilt and pressure to make it to the celestial kingdom so they can become their own god/goddess.

The exact opposite is the case with true Christianity in which people are motivated by awe and gratitude for what Jesus has done for them on the cross.

In the Mormon system, there is really no need for a Savior because Mormons essentially save themselves through their own efforts to appease the Mormon god. I think Daryl summed up this god quite accurately as an "anal-retentive bean-counting clerk." I would add to his definition the words petty, cruel, manipulative, fickle, and infantile.

The Mormon system perpetuates self-righteousness and narcissism while genuine Christianity foster's love and humility (Christlikeness). Granted, Christians are deeply flawed and misrepresent the love of Christ often but that is exactly why we need him as Savior.

Mother Teresa was one of the most Christlike people I have ever seen. She loved people who were outcasts just like Jesus did. Does this mean she somehow attained perfection? I really don't think so. But I do believe she was overwhelmed by the love of a God who valued freedom so greatly that he allowed his own creation to murder him in order to save them. I think her breath was taken away by this selfless act of love and she couldn't help but give away her own life for the sake of others in response.

Anyway, your post obviously sparked my thinking and I could go on and on about a million other related things that are also being stirred in me. But it's getting late and I should get to bed. Thanks for your words. :)

Wes

Well stated Wes

Actually, I think the attributes of the mormon God are an extension of Joseph Smith's personality. Self righteous, and narcissistic! I think those words would describe him well. As do cruel, manipulative, and fickle! His religion is a projection of that personality " mingled with scripture".

If Mother Teresa does not make it to the place we call heaven. then I don't want to be there!

Free Thinker

[dogzilla]

Well, who really wants to be in the Celestial Kingdom with all those repressed, guilt-ridden mormons around anyway?

I'll take hell, without the green jello, any day of the week. :D

[wescape]

Hi Free Thinker,

I totally agree that the attributes of the mormon god are an extension of Joseph Smith's personality. Of course, I also believe that the existence of the Mormon god is an extension of Joseph Smith's criminal mind. In many ways he set himself up to be the Mormon god (or at least his right hand man). Doesn't it say somewhere in the plethora of Mormon writings that Joseph Smith holds the keys to heaven and that no one gets in without his approval? Talk about narcisissm and self-righteousness! It just blows my mind that he was able to decieve so many. Must have been some salesman. I wonder if he would have been able to dupe as many people had he been born in modern times?

Wes

[dogzilla]

Yes, Wes, I think he would have; only he'd be selling used cars or something instead of cashing in on religion.

[free thinker]

Yes, Wes, I think he would have; only he'd be selling used cars or something instead of cashing in on religion.

Or maybe he would be the president of a corporation like, say. ENRON !!! :D

I'm not gonna be one of those who just kinda dismisses the daliances of Joseph Smith, as if he was just, well , kinda weak in some areas. Right. How would you feel if he hit on your wife? Or if you were the wife of a close friend of his, and he hit on you! What a piece of crap this guy was!

Free Thinker

[silverfox]

Or maybe he would be the president of a corporation like, say. ENRON !!! :D

I'm not gonna be one of those who just kinda dismisses the daliances of Joseph Smith, as if he was just, well , kinda weak in some areas. Right. How would you feel if he hit on your wife? Or if you were the wife of a close friend of his, and he hit on you! What a piece of crap this guy was!

Free Thinker

It's important to remember, IMHO, that members back then weren't allowed to disobey Joe. And with Brigham - he would wreak havoc if you disobeyed. Murder, stealing, torture, etc. What they want they got. Final. That's it. Back then they could get away with it but not now. I don't think for a minute they could get away with all they've done in these modern times. We have too much information. In fact they AREN'T getting away with it. Look at how many members are exiting.

Oh, Joe or Brig might have a small following of schizos or something today (no insult intended toward schizos, I love 'em! My son is one) but nothing like they were capable of in those days. They used fear tactics. They CHEATED.

[miss taken]

I know this is off the subject a bit, but your comments Silverfox, remind me of the time that I asked the SP if the stuff in Van Wagoner's work on Mormon Polygamy were true. He passed it on up through the heirarch, and got a letter back that basically said that way back then it was the wild west and lots of things happened.

That was it!!!!

[free thinker]

I know this is off the subject a bit, but your comments Silverfox, remind me of the time that I asked the SP if the stuff in Van Wagoner's work on Mormon Polygamy were true. He passed it on up through the heirarch, and got a letter back that basically said that way back then it was the wild west and lots of things happened.

That was it!!!!

The wild west my arse!! That is such a crock of crap. :Puking Most people in those days had a very provincial attitude toward sex. We are much more liberal in our attitudes toward sex today. Just another answer from a church that cannot honestly answer the question.


The truth is that Joseph Smith wanted to have sex with many women! It is just that simple! :rolleyes:

Free Thinker