Moism, Creationism and Evolution

[Born Free]

Mo conservfundies suppressed a Mo Prophets statement "No Mo position on evolution" and played politics.

I was prompted by this quote re evolution to kick off a new thread on the politics played out inside "God's organisation" around the evolution issue.

"I assert that a man has no reason to be ashamed of having an ape for a grandfather. If there were an ancestor whom I should feel shame in recalling, it would rather be a man endowed with great ability and a splendid position who used those gifts to obscure the truth".

Thomas Huxley - Attributed (said to William Wilberforce during a debate on evolution.)

One of the issues that shaped my readiness to happily leave Mosim was seeing how the fundies within Moism would not abide a 'Prophet''s ruling re the evolution vs Creationism question, and then proceeded to use such instruments as Church lesson manuals and study guides to push their fundamentalist agenda. I then and now, find that level of moral bankruptcy deeply repugnent.

I would be interested to see how many others are aware of the extent the Church has been compromised on this issue.

Daryl

[miss taken]

I remember one person with whom I vacationed, whilst studying evolution at college. (so it was on my mind a lot) who refused even to accept that dinosaurs may once have lived upon the earth, because 'there was no death before Adam and Eve' I can't remember who that comes from, but it was one of the prophets.

I had no idea that the church had no official position on the topic of evolution, and it pleases me greatly, because it may end up like the catholics with Copernicus, etc etc, and one day the concept may become so self-evident and out of the realms of theory, that the church just has to cave in, in the face of overwhelming truth.

I read a book by Tielhard de Chardin, very early on which basically says that well.....who cares how god did it. I believe he did it, and science may one day unfold to me exactly how, for now...I can accept it, while still maintaining a belief in God.

Having also read Stephen Hawkings works (which I do not pretend to begin to understand!) it seems that if there is an intelligence, whom we call God, then grief he can do anything he likes, even Stephen cant help bringing in a religious element to answer the question of what happened to cause the big bang.

So I guess I must have kept my views pretty much to myself while in the church, though I know that the church is full of many people who believe many things!

(BTW, I recently read a book called 'The Hidden History of the Human Race' which made for interesting reading, on how our develpment is not sewn up as yet..

[nate]

I remember one person with whom I vacationed, whilst studying evolution at college. (so it was on my mind a lot) who refused even to accept that dinosaurs may once have lived upon the earth, because 'there was no death before Adam and Eve' I can't remember who that comes from, but it was one of the prophets.

Right. I've heard Mos theorize that God took parts of other heavenly bodies together to create the earth, so that explains the existence of dinosaurs (in jist...they are alien fossils).

I still hate the over-simplification of the theory of human evolution by the fundies, "Don't know about you, but I didn't come from no ape". The theory isn't that we evolved from apes; apes were a different branch in the evolution. Also, evolution is not a theory, it happens in nature. Human evolution is a theory. Why would we be the only thing on the planet that does NOT evolve? And if we are, then why do we have tail bones? Does God also have an unused tail bone?

Plus none of these fundies stop to think that God could have created man in his own image...get ready for this.....THROUGH evolution!! Whoa...what a thought!

When confronted on the topic of evolution by fundies like this, I like to point out to them that FLIGHT is still a theory!

[stuckasamo]

Right. I've heard Mos theorize that God took parts of other heavenly bodies together to create the earth, so that explains the existence of dinosaurs (in jist...they are alien fossils).

I still hate the over-simplification of the theory of human evolution by the fundies, "Don't know about you, but I didn't come from no ape". The theory isn't that we evolved from apes; apes were a different branch in the evolution. Also, evolution is not a theory, it happens in nature. Human evolution is a theory. Why would we be the only thing on the planet that does NOT evolve? And if we are, then why do we have tail bones? Does God also have an unused tail bone?

Plus none of these fundies stop to think that God could have created man in his own image...get ready for this.....THROUGH evolution!! Whoa...what a thought!

When confronted on the topic of evolution by fundies like this, I like to point out to them that FLIGHT is still a theory!

Even in Mo school we learn some things about humans that reek of evolutionary hints. Like the fact that all humans carry the genes that code for fish scales! There is no promotor or terminator sequence for the gene, so it's never expressed, but sometimes mutations can occur and the scales are expressed. And all placental mammals have the exact same structure at a certain phase in development: complete with gills (which become ears), a tail, and webbed feet. I believe in evolution!

[Born Free]

Even in Mo school we learn some things about humans that reek of evolutionary hints. Like the fact that all humans carry the genes that code for fish scales! There is no promotor or terminator sequence for the gene, so it's never expressed, but sometimes mutations can occur and the scales are expressed. And all placental mammals have the exact same structure at a certain phase in development: complete with gills (which become ears), a tail, and webbed feet. I believe in evolution!

Did you know that humans can have multiple nipples from the armpit right down a line to the crotch, just like dogs or pigs. That is a good indicator of the complexity of the genetic coding.

Many years ago I was at a major display of dinasaur remains and replicas at Darling Harbour in Sydney. A scientist was working on site on removing the soil/stone from around bone fragments and answering questions from those observing. A fundy read the signage, and then remarked "And these bones are XXXXXXX (sorry I have forgotten the number) thousand of years old, right?" which got a positive response. The fundy then stated very smugly "How curious, considering the earth is only 6,000 years old!" and turned their back and walked away very impressed with themselves.

Most everyone looking after their departure was not quite so impressed. The scientist just smiled.

[peter_mary]

Evolution and the age of the earth were critical issues for me as I tried to make sense of the Church and religion in general. I was educated as a Geologist, and subsequently paleontology and historical geology were just matters of fact in my training. And they ran 180 degrees counter to what I was being told/taught at Church. McConkie in an an earlier Mormon Doctrine was VERY clear that the earth was 6000 years old and that evolution was a wicked doctrine. In later editions, he backed off that position, and by the time he died, I think he had backed all the way off.

Still, the Creation story is clearly central to LDS doctrine--a trip to the temple will confirm that central importance. I was so frustrated by the lack of consistency between my formal education and my spiritual training that I came to a very unfortunate conclusion...I would have to switch my brain off. I couldn't make sense of it, and I didn't believe I ever would make sense out of it in this mortal existence (as with all other mysteries, "it will makes sense when I'm a god!). That was a low point for me in my life...when I had to stop thinking in order to make the Church world view work.

I'm happy to report that my brain is back on! :Crazy:

Paul

[miss taken]

I love your comments Paul. They make me chuckle!
My 6 year old son, says to me today. 'mum at school they have said that some christians believe that the earth is only 6000 years old, and well....I don't believe it.
I mean, first you got hydrogen and helium, and the first thing to be made were stars, and then from the stars, you got oxygen and other elements ( I can't remember what he said - he's beyond me!), and then you got planets revolving round stars, and well....that must have taken a long, long time.' He has been like this since he was 3! He marvels at the world, and I find his excitement and thirst for knowledge to be such a breath of fresh air.