In your face......good Ol' Utard

[silverfox]

I found my daughter a wonderful piano teacher. She is in my old ward and we are acquaintances. During our first meeting with her she asked if it would be okay if she and my daughter have a prayer prior to the day's lesson. I must have looked puzzled because she instantly said she found it inspirational to do so. I asked daughter if she was okay with that. Yes. (darn) Okay, whatever. That shouldn't hurt anything. I can always set her straight when she gets home anyway.

The next week after her first lesson she brought home an assignment sheet with details of the lesson and her "homework" assignments. At the top of the form was a space for "Opening Hymn" and at the end, "Closing Hymn". Hmmmmm WTF?????

She is very good and asked daugther what her expectations were and listed a few suggestions, "play in the school band? Play for enjoyment? Play for hobby? Play for church?" Daughter stated she wanted to learn to play so she could teach and entertain others. (whew) I didn't mind the church suggestion as it is Utard and well, that's just how it is.

But the form bothered me. There seems to be little left untouched. Seems the church is everywhere. I didn't expect to see it in the piano lessons. I thought because it was a business it would be different. I KNOW BETTER!!!!

I am wondering if I should call her and ask her about the hymn thing? I really don't want any LDS church hyms in my daughter's head. I don't want to discuss my beliefs with this woman (no need for her to feel sorry that my wonderful talented daughter is stuck with exmo parents, sigh) I talked to daugther and suggested she tell her teacher that when it comes to hymns they must be approved by me. It may be that the form is used for other things and not just lessons so I don't want to jump the gun by making a big deal out of it.

I would find another piano teacher but she is really really is very good and I owe her that chance. sigh

[noodle]

I found my daughter a wonderful piano teacher. She is in my old ward and we are acquaintances. During our first meeting with her she asked if it would be okay if she and my daughter have a prayer prior to the day's lesson. I must have looked puzzled because she instantly said she found it inspirational to do so. I asked daughter if she was okay with that. Yes. (darn) Okay, whatever. That shouldn't hurt anything. I can always set her straight when she gets home anyway.

The next week after her first lesson she brought home an assignment sheet with details of the lesson and her "homework" assignments. At the top of the form was a space for "Opening Hymn" and at the end, "Closing Hymn". Hmmmmm WTF?????

She is very good and asked daugther what her expectations were and listed a few suggestions, "play in the school band? Play for enjoyment? Play for hobby? Play for church?" Daughter stated she wanted to learn to play so she could teach and entertain others. (whew) I didn't mind the church suggestion as it is Utard and well, that's just how it is.

But the form bothered me. There seems to be little left untouched. Seems the church is everywhere. I didn't expect to see it in the piano lessons. I thought because it was a business it would be different. I KNOW BETTER!!!!

I am wondering if I should call her and ask her about the hymn thing? I really don't want any LDS church hyms in my daughter's head. I don't want to discuss my beliefs with this woman (no need for her to feel sorry that my wonderful talented daughter is stuck with exmo parents, sigh) I talked to daugther and suggested she tell her teacher that when it comes to hymns they must be approved by me. It may be that the form is used for other things and not just lessons so I don't want to jump the gun by making a big deal out of it.

I would find another piano teacher but she is really really is very good and I owe her that chance. sigh

Silverfox: I'm a bit aghast :eek: that a piano teacher would do that. Even in Utah! My home state as well.

I'll have to admit that I threw out your dilemma to my very irreverant 14 year old son. He suggested that at your next lesson, you have your daughter take in the music and lyrics to "Plastic Jesus." I apologize in advance to those who may be offended (where is the devil smiley that I requested???)

http://jesusdance.org/lyrics.html

You can hear the music if you delete the "lyrics.html" part in the address.

In all seriousness, how old is your daughter? Just wondering if she'll be intimidated by the teacher. Perhaps for next week, leave the opening and closing hymn part blank on the worksheet to see if the teacher takes the hint. I'm a bit puzzled at how to handle the prayer thing. Will she ask your daughter to offer a prayer? Yikes...

I'm really interested to see how others would handle this.

mamajama

[stuckasamo]

I found my daughter a wonderful piano teacher. She is in my old ward and we are acquaintances. During our first meeting with her she asked if it would be okay if she and my daughter have a prayer prior to the day's lesson. I must have looked puzzled because she instantly said she found it inspirational to do so. I asked daughter if she was okay with that. Yes. (darn) Okay, whatever. That shouldn't hurt anything. I can always set her straight when she gets home anyway.

The next week after her first lesson she brought home an assignment sheet with details of the lesson and her "homework" assignments. At the top of the form was a space for "Opening Hymn" and at the end, "Closing Hymn". Hmmmmm WTF?????

She is very good and asked daugther what her expectations were and listed a few suggestions, "play in the school band? Play for enjoyment? Play for hobby? Play for church?" Daughter stated she wanted to learn to play so she could teach and entertain others. (whew) I didn't mind the church suggestion as it is Utard and well, that's just how it is.

But the form bothered me. There seems to be little left untouched. Seems the church is everywhere. I didn't expect to see it in the piano lessons. I thought because it was a business it would be different. I KNOW BETTER!!!!

I am wondering if I should call her and ask her about the hymn thing? I really don't want any LDS church hyms in my daughter's head. I don't want to discuss my beliefs with this woman (no need for her to feel sorry that my wonderful talented daughter is stuck with exmo parents, sigh) I talked to daugther and suggested she tell her teacher that when it comes to hymns they must be approved by me. It may be that the form is used for other things and not just lessons so I don't want to jump the gun by making a big deal out of it.

I would find another piano teacher but she is really really is very good and I owe her that chance. sigh

There's probably no advice I could give you that you don't already know, but I feel a bond with this story because I had to take piano lessons from a TBM for seven years! Of course, that was when I actually believed the crap, but still.....

The piano teacher is being paid to teach your daughter how to play the piano. That's IT. You should definitely have a say in what you DON'T want your child to be playing. The only problem is, yes, in voicing your requests, you may find yourself on unfavorable terms with this terrific piano teacher. But this is about principles, don't you think? Don't let yourself remain silence out of an unwillingness to cause controversy. If the lady gets mad, she wasn't the type of person you wanted to be teaching your child anyway - I don't care how good she is!

If you do decide to just keep your silence, keep an eye on your daughter's sanity! :D

[Born Free]

I found my daughter a wonderful piano teacher. She is in my old ward and we are acquaintances. During our first meeting with her she asked if it would be okay if she and my daughter have a prayer prior to the day's lesson. I must have looked puzzled because she instantly said she found it inspirational to do so. I asked daughter if she was okay with that. Yes. (darn) Okay, whatever. That shouldn't hurt anything. I can always set her straight when she gets home anyway.

The next week after her first lesson she brought home an assignment sheet with details of the lesson and her "homework" assignments. At the top of the form was a space for "Opening Hymn" and at the end, "Closing Hymn". Hmmmmm WTF?????

She is very good and asked daugther what her expectations were and listed a few suggestions, "play in the school band? Play for enjoyment? Play for hobby? Play for church?" Daughter stated she wanted to learn to play so she could teach and entertain others. (whew) I didn't mind the church suggestion as it is Utard and well, that's just how it is.

But the form bothered me. There seems to be little left untouched. Seems the church is everywhere. I didn't expect to see it in the piano lessons. I thought because it was a business it would be different. I KNOW BETTER!!!!

I am wondering if I should call her and ask her about the hymn thing? I really don't want any LDS church hyms in my daughter's head. I don't want to discuss my beliefs with this woman (no need for her to feel sorry that my wonderful talented daughter is stuck with exmo parents, sigh) I talked to daugther and suggested she tell her teacher that when it comes to hymns they must be approved by me. It may be that the form is used for other things and not just lessons so I don't want to jump the gun by making a big deal out of it.

I would find another piano teacher but she is really really is very good and I owe her that chance. sigh

How would the woman feel if it was suggested that a few hymns from other faiths be used: Methodist/Lutheran, SDA, Episcapalian, Muslim, or Hindu even. I suspect that she would feel that inappropriate. If so, then why is it appropriate for Mormon hymns to be used in a music lesson. (BTW, I am no musician, but aren't most Mo hymns pretty basic musically?)

For me, this is another example of how Mormons fail to see and respect boundaries.

If she believes that prayer helps the lesson, say that numerous great composers and musicians seemed to function just fine without the assistance of prayer, so you and your daughter are happy to proceed upon that basis. By all means encourage her, that if she feels she would benefit by praying before each lesson, then she is most welcome - on her own, and for herself.

Sadly, the effect of you drawing a line (a boundary) when it should not have been necessary, may create a bit of tension, which the woman is likely to see as your problem. How cute and very Mormon. This boundary violation was created by her; you are within your reasonable rights to call it, and the discomfort should be left with her, because that is who created the problem.

There may be some value in separating her value as a music teacher from this disrespectful behaviour explicitly, so she has room to feel respected, concurrent with being appropriately reprimanded.

Your question reminded me of my own frustration with Mormons thrusting their beliefs upon others in a most insentitive way, that frankly makes them unpleasant to be around. I must get my thinking/feeling more focused and start a thread along those lines!

It seems that they work upon the assumption that what is right for them, must be right for everyone else, and that they therefore are being loving to spoon feed their beliefs to others. That they fail to see how inappropriate such behaviour is, IMO, reflects upon the broader Mo culture, and its disrespect for others, and even failure to be alert that others may hold a different, and in many cases, much better studied & thought through, perspective.

Spong suggested the mindset was "I'm OK, You're Not OK". In 3 words: "How bl##dy arrogant!"

Daryl

PS: silverfox, the more I think about this, the more I would question whether it is "in your face". I see it as more sneaky, less direct and even assumptive, but not "up front".

There is an unfocussed, out-of-touch-with-reality quality about it that I find disturbing. That said, they might be right into their "reality" but seem incapable of perceiving that others 'reality' might be different. That said, Moism works on the assumption that there is only one 'reality'..... theirs!

[silverfox]

Good feedback...thanks so much! I didn't see the "crossing of the boundaries". SHAME ON ME! I just felt it was in my face not really as offensive as crossing MY personal boundaries but you know what, that IS what it is about. And THAT is why I am so very uncomfortable with it. sigh. It has been nagging at me persistently. And guess what, you church monitors, it AIN'T the holy ghost talking to me....yikes, must be Satan....LOL. (yes, enter sarcasm here)

mammajamma - girl you crack me up! What an awesome idea! I could send a list of acceptable "hymns" to be used. Heeeeeee thanks for the link. :D

Daughter is okay with the prayer and hymn thing. She is 10. Hasn't really been truly brainwashed yet. She never liked church so my apostacy was a comfort to her. Although she does sometimes feel peer pressure regarding activities, etc. She gets invited to "Achievement Days' (what a joke of a program) and goes now and then if they are doing something she wants to do or if her little friend talks her into going.

Daughter wants to please her teacher and is so very eager to learn ANYTHING on the piano so to her a "hymn" is nothing...it has no significant meaning because she doesn't really know what a "hymn" is. It could be a song on the radio for all she knows. She hasn't been that exposed to church life and vocabulary as a Mo. She was never baptized, etc, etc. So looking through her eyes I understand why it is no big deal to her. But I WANT it to be a big deal to her!!!! So this is MY issue.

I am thinking of writing a note to the teacher. I just don't know how to word it. I really want DD to learn from this teacher but am so disappointed that church has to be a part of it. She knows we don't attend. And I am sure she has heard rumors. She didn't mention the hymn thing at our meeting, only the prayer thing. So I was shocked to see it on the paper. Had she mentioned it I would have had no problem saying, hey, you know what, I am really uncomfortable with daughter participating in anything religious with anyone but her family. She is NOT learning piano so she can play at any church. She is learning for fun and entertainment so there will be no teaching of any hymns.

I may sit in on the next lesson just to see how it goes. I worry also about her trying to pry info from daughter. (why don't you go to church? Tell your mom to take you, etc, you know how it goes) I didn't think this would be an issue with this woman...I really like her! And this stuff is a surprise to me. Shit what was I thinking?????? Taking her THERE for lessons?

No lesson this week (teacher is out of town) so I will think on it some more.