Feeling invisible to Mormons unless agreeing with them

[Born Free]

Many Mormons have a manner of dealing with non-Mos, that can be very off-putting, frustrating, even infuriating, IMHO!

silverfox made a remark elsewhere about treatment by her childs music teacher, and it started me on focusing what it is I feel when dealing with many Mormons.

The best example I can bring to mind was dealing with a Mission Pres. I had had some dealings with him in business before he became a MP here in Oz. My wife and I caught up with them for dinner one night, but left later in the night very frustrated. We spent some time analysing what went pear-shaped.

They did the mandatory testimony bearing I guess partially in response to our saying we had both left the Church. How is one supposed to respond to a statement (made as if their opinion is) of FACT, beyond dispute. Like God has given them the good word, so it is inviolate, beyond discussion. Hello!!!

I looked at that posture, and considered various responses:

Ignore it, pretend I did not hear it.
Debate it, try to make his FACTS wrong.
Or, what else???

These days I have better skills in my armoury - the dreaded "I statement". I can now see that he was making the assumption that because he had arrived at the conclusion/conviction/sure knowledge/belief that God was the God of the Mormons etc, then he had the right to tell me how it was, regardless of how I might receive that, and how I might regard him as a consequence.

Now I would probably say:
"That sounds really important to you. Clearly you have had some experience that has convinced you of certain things and that that can be interpretted as meaning other things. I do not dispute that is what you have experienced, indeed I am interested to hear it!

"That said, I want you to be very clear that that is NOT my experience. So, we are left with the problem of what that means! Is God different for you than me? Are there several Gods, maybe; one who talks to you, and another who speaks to me? Either way, your experience is your experience, and I regard it as personal, and no more inherently applicable to me than the visions of a schitzophrenic.

"Further I think it shows a certain degree of limited thinking to believe that there is only one way to experience God, and the meaning of Life".

But that is where I believe that most Momorms get into trouble. Many I observe do not have the mental and emotional maturity to countenance that others may have a reality different to theirs. That does not make any one wrong, or bad, or better, or worse..... just different. But in many cases that is just too big an ask. And that ignorance is furthered by their poor breadth of reading, and made worse by their poor listening skills, made worse again in that even if their ears work, when they hear something that does not fit their framework of meaning, they flip out, and go into overload, thereby failing to hear anything more, thereby failing to expand their base of reference.

So I am interested to get others experience in that strange non-connect that so frequently the case when dealing with Mormons.

Here is a good example: A friend toured teh new MacTemple in our city when opened a few years back. A TBM friend asked him what he thought of teh temple. He answered honestly that it was Copper Art (a cheap home decorations franchise here) meets Liberace. She was not impressed, and and did not pursue the matter.

Now if you ask someone what they think of a public building and you have a divergence of opinion, you might explore the matter: what specifically etc.?

But this woman could not even countenace that this building she sees as sacred, might by (many) others be seen as gaudy, tacky, and kitch! I personally find the Ayrian Christian art so WASPish as to be offensive, ethnically and artistically.

So the question this woman asked was conditional upon her getting the answer she wanted to hear, not a truthful response. And isn't that a big part of the group-think that so often passes for Mormon communication?

Ther is also frequently a major dose of boundary violation in many Mo dealings IMHO.

So, over to you guys to help define what it is about Mormons that makes communicting and dealing with many of them like a trip to Lala Land?

[silverfox]

Many Mormons have a manner of dealing with non-Mos, that can be very off-putting, frustrating, even infuriating, IMHO!

silverfox made a remark elsewhere about treatment by her childs music teacher, and it started me on focusing what it is I feel when dealing with many Mormons.

The best example I can bring to mind was dealing with a Mission Pres. I had had some dealings with him in business before he became a MP here in Oz. My wife and I caught up with them for dinner one night, but left later in the night very frustrated. We spent some time analysing what went pear-shaped.

They did the mandatory testimony bearing I guess partially in response to our saying we had both left the Church. How is one supposed to respond to a statement (made as if their opinion is) of FACT, beyond dispute. Like God has given them the good word, so it is inviolate, beyond discussion. Hello!!!

I looked at that posture, and considered various responses:

Ignore it, pretend I did not hear it.
Debate it, try to make his FACTS wrong.
Or, what else???

These days I have better skills in my armoury - the dreaded "I statement". I can now see that he was making the assumption that because he had arrived at the conclusion/conviction/sure knowledge/belief that God was the God of the Mormons etc, then he had the right to tell me how it was, regardless of how I might receive that, and how I might regard him as a consequence.

Now I would probably say:
"That sounds really important to you. Clearly you have had some experience that has convinced you of certain things and that that can be interpretted as meaning other things. I do not dispute that is what you have experienced, indeed I am interested to hear it!

"That said, I want you to be very clear that that is NOT my experience. So, we are left with the problem of what that means! Is God different for you than me? Are there several Gods, maybe; one who talks to you, and another who speaks to me? Either way, your experience is your experience, and I regard it as personal, and no more inherently applicable to me than the visions of a schitzophrenic.

"Further I think it shows a certain degree of limited thinking to believe that there is only one way to experience God, and the meaning of Life".

But that is where I believe that most Momorms get into trouble. Many I observe do not have the mental and emotional maturity to countenance that others may have a reality different to theirs. That does not make any one wrong, or bad, or better, or worse..... just different. But in many cases that is just too big an ask. And that ignorance is furthered by their poor breadth of reading, and made worse by their poor listening skills, made worse again in that even if their ears work, when they hear something that does not fit their framework of meaning, they flip out, and go into overload, thereby failing to hear anything more, thereby failing to expand their base of reference.

So I am interested to get others experience in that strange non-connect that so frequently the case when dealing with Mormons.

Here is a good example: A friend toured teh new MacTemple in our city when opened a few years back. A TBM friend asked him what he thought of teh temple. He answered honestly that it was Copper Art (a cheap home decorations franchise here) meets Liberace. She was not impressed, and and did not pursue the matter.

Now if you ask someone what they think of a public building and you have a divergence of opinion, you might explore the matter: what specifically etc.?

But this woman could not even countenace that this building she sees as sacred, might by (many) others be seen as gaudy, tacky, and kitch! I personally find the Ayrian Christian art so WASPish as to be offensive, ethnically and artistically.

So the question this woman asked was conditional upon her getting the answer she wanted to hear, not a truthful response. And isn't that a big part of the group-think that so often passes for Mormon communication?

Ther is also frequently a major dose of boundary violation in many Mo dealings IMHO.

So, over to you guys to help define what it is about Mormons that makes communicting and dealing with many of them like a trip to Lala Land?

Good stuff, Sturg. I think in my situation I am very sensitive to what you are referring to because 1.) I used to be like that (ugh) 2.) Knowing how they feel and think I believe allows me to anticipate their behavior because I WAS one at one time. 3.)The perdictability results in quick angst. (I KNEW they were gonna say this or that! I KNEW it!!!! GRRRRR)

When my FIL found out about my apostacy he worked overtime flooding my mail box with emails, talks, stories, etc. Now I rarely heard from the dude prior to this but as soon as my apostacy was public knowledge he took it upon himself to be my missionary. Conditional attention. Would have liked to have gotten some other kind of attention...you know like How are the kids? How are YOU? Rather than being "scolded" in a subtle way about "losing" my testimony.

How very comfortable TBMs are in their skins of religion. Oh, IMHO, I feel they THINK they are doing apostates a favor by sharing their testimonies and beliefs but in reality I think it's a dose of "feel good" for their ownselves. Do they REALLY care about one's apostacy? Seriously? Or are they just so wrapped up in doing and saying the "right" thing so they can sleep at night and bear their testimony in F&T meeting?

[Free-soil]

How very comfortable TBMs are in their skins of religion. Oh, IMHO, I feel they THINK they are doing apostates a favor by sharing their testimonies and beliefs but in reality I think it's a dose of "feel good" for their ownselves.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. These people share their testimonies because they need to remind themselves of why they are participating in the religion. I think for many (more than let on) being a member of the church is a struggle. They question often and have a difficult time reconciling their concerns. It has been my experience that these TBMs are in not so TBM and that someone leaving the church allows them to see that it can be done. There is another choice, one that may not have seemed feasible. The idea that someone else figured out that the church isn't for them rocks the world of a TBM. All they can do it "testify" because it makes them feel more comfortable in they way they are living their lives. Obviously, this isn't the case for everyone, but I think it is for large percentage of church members.