Is Recovery from Mormonism really possible?

[skeptic]

My lovely TBM wife embraces the philosophy of letting every man walk to the beat of their own drummer. Might be this become an ex-Mormon recovery statement? Having moral convictions how can one not feel obligated to challenge (in a civil way) deception, theft of income, bigotry and suppression of skeptical inquiry? It appears to me this is a life long battle.

SoUtSkeptic

[Jeff_Ricks]

My lovely TBM wife embraces the philosophy of letting every man walk to the beat of their own drummer. Might be this become an ex-Mormon recovery statement? Having moral convictions how can one not feel obligated to challenge (in a civil way) deception, theft of income, bigotry and suppression of skeptical inquiry? It appears to me this is a life long battle.

SoUtSkepticIt irks me when I hear the phrase, "They can leave Mormonism but they can't leave it alone." I wonder if they'd feel the same if the phrase is applied to Enron, for instance, another organization that has lied to its members (stockholders) and knowingly deceived them out of their money. I agree, skeptic, where deception is known to exist I think it's irresponsible not to do something to help expose it. So, as long as the Church keeps decieving people I'll keep doing what I can to expose it's deceptions, even it takes me the rest of my life.

Jeff

[bigeddy]

That whole can't leave it alone thing really bugs me also. I would sit in therapy sessions (and now as I listen to discussions among class members) and witness the kind of subtle pain, confusion and hurt engendered by the way Mormonism limits the progression/evolution of people. I cannot leave it alone because it is like a pile of elephant shit in the living room. It needs dealing with.

I was talking to a woman this morning about the way power is misused and how hurtful that is. I used Boyd as an example of a person who misuses and hurts. I would someday like the opportunity to tell him personally how much he damaged my life and how long that damage lasted and how much he continues to do it to others.

Ed

[skeptic]

I think as Bob McCue once stated: we are caught up in a battle of altruism. The LDS Church is trying to save souls so everyone can go to the celestial kingdom and families will be forever and as Post Mormons we challenge our LDS friends to start thinking for themselves to justify their beliefs using evidence based reasoning as we see them caught in a cult.

Re: The Mormon Claim "They can leave Mormonism but they can't leave it alone."

I was recently purchasing a lamp fixture from one of our local lighting stores. The young fellow at the counter started telling me how he had just came off his mission from Germany and started up the lighting store. I pressed him with a question as to how much success he had on his mission in Germany. (I’ve heard Germany is a difficult mission) He stated he did not work on new converts but worked with in-actives trying re-activate them. I thought to myself who can’t leave who alone.

Last year I had the missionaries show up on my doorstep. They were pushy wanting to show my wife and me the new video. Surprised, I asked them who sent them. They responded GOD had. Really I said. They responded really he had as they had both prayed in different rooms and were both inspired to come to my street. Well, when it was finally time for them to leave I think they must have figured out that GOD had apparently really screwed up. I was really surprised on how uneducated they were on issues facing the church. My poor TBM wife was trying to referee at the doorstep all the time.


SoUtSkeptic

[elder_nomo]

I think the idea that you can't be "recovered" from mormonism unless you "leave it alone" is pretty bogus.

Think about someone who has cut their finger and develops an infection. They get some antibiotics, wrap the cut and keep it clean. It hurts for a while, but eventually it heals.

Would you say that person has not recovered from the infection if they try to warn others about being careful with knives or about keeping cuts clean? Of course not!

Not that I would compare moromonism to an infection, but..... well, nevermind.

[helemon]

I would someday like the opportunity to tell him personally how much he damaged my life and how long that damage lasted and how much he continues to do it to others.

Ed

Yes, but some one also damaged Boyd. He was merely repeating and perhaps elaborating some on commonly held views about appropriate sexual behaviors. None of the other leaders of the church criticized what he said and most likely they reviewed what he was going to say. So they are all complicit in his words. Boyd is as much a victim of his cultural past as those he has victimized.

Did you watch Kinsey? I am reminded of the part where Kinsey learned about how his sexually repressive father had been punished by his parents. I seem to recall that he was forced to wear a device that caused an erection to be very painful. Given the sexual repression of our cultures past it is no wonder we are still dealing with its impact on society still today. At least Boyd never advocated the practice of clitorectomies for women like some Muslim clerics in some African nations have advocated.

[helemon]

Not that I would compare moromonism to an infection, but..... well, nevermind.

I think for a lot of people the emotion is closer to the betrayal of marital infidelity. Your whole sense of reality collapses and you are left trying to figure out how to sort out pieces to salvage and how to rebuild your life.

[Born Free]

The mindset of this is fascinating. It seems to go:

I am a Mormon. Mo is 100% true, therefore there is not scope for critique of it.

If someone leaves and criticises it, self-evidently they have rejected Truth, so they are deeply in error or downright Evil.

That they insist on and persist in critiquing the Church, can be nothing less than proof that is is True, and that they are restless souls because they have turned against Truth and cannot find peace.

That is the ultimate proof that the Church is True.

Nice piece of circular logic? Just as is intended.:duh

That they are incapable of any independent critical thought speaks volumes of where they come from. One of the best examples of that is when ever any issue gets sticky, they distance the criticism by separating the Gospel from the Church, so they can maintain this pristine edifice someplace in their head.

Nice fantasy, if you can maintain it (without losing your sanity).

Daryl

[miss taken]

My friend reminded me today (funnily enough) that when I first left the church I couldn't think straight and was crying uncontrollably at any time of the day, for a while. She described me as 'heartbroken'.

You know, I honestly can't remember this. I really can't.

What I do feel now, is that I didn't need to 'recover' from Mormonism, but what I did need to do was 'adjust' to life without it, and embrace it for the good it did, and learn from the 'bad' it did to me psychologically.

Hope that makes sense..??

[free thinker]

She described me as 'heartbroken'


Mary


I was heartbroken! It was a sad and disorienting time. Heartbroken was a good description for me. I felt that I had been climbing a ladder my whole life only to realize it was leaning against the wrong wall.


Now here is something we seem hesitant to acknowledge. The possibility that the mormon system engenders some evil. Richard Pakham has no problem saying as much.

Why would we be so hesistant to so label some of what mormonism does and supports as evil?

And can you imagine Elie Weisel leaving the holocaust but not being able to leave it alone?

ft

[Jeff_Ricks]

She described me as 'heartbroken'


Mary


I was heartbroken! It was a sad and disorienting time. Heartbroken was a good description for me. I felt that I had been climbing a ladder my whole life only to realize it was leaning against the wrong wall.


Now here is something we seem hesitant to acknowledge. The possibility that the mormon system engenders some evil. Richard Pakham has no problem saying as much.

Why would we be so hesistant to so label some of what mormonism does and supports as evil?

And can you imagine Elie Weisel leaving the holocaust but not being able to leave it alone?

ftBoy! I'm sure willing to point out evil in Mormonism where evil exists! In short, I think anything that is unnecessarily oppressive is wrong, and when you throw deceptive into the equation it is down right evil.

I think Mormonism is fundamentally oppressive. They call it having higher standards. I call it having an unnecessary whip at your back.

I would compare it to having a personal trainer. They're useful as a source of motivation to improve one's health but if nothing in reality was to be gained by having a trainer driving you to "endure to the end, lengthen your stride, do more, be more, reach higher..." then it's really just an unnecessary waist of time and energy that benefits only the trainer ('cause he gets paid for it). When the metaphor is applied to Mormonism it's not just time that's wasted, it's a life that's wasted, which is tragic, and therefore evil.

Jeff

[megawatts]

I felt lost without the church. It was like being dropped off in the middle of nowhere with no compass. I had my share of tears. It was especially difficult because I had never heard of this group and felt like I was surely the only person in the world to want to leave mormonism. My family thought I was letting satan lead me and I wondered at my own reasoning abilities.

This group helped me A LOT! I thank those of you who have stayed to clear a path for the rest of us. I wish I had known you ten years ago. Life has never been better now that I am out of it all. Who knew I might actually know what is best for me and my family.

[dogzilla]

Here's a different spin on this:

I was first sexually abused by my step brother, which has been dealt with and from which I've recovered. But then I was spiritually and emotionally abused by the church, the bishopric and my own parents. The trust issues I have from the secondary abuse remain and continue to be the albatross on my back.

When I left the church, I finally felt safe. For the first time in my life, I didn't have to worry about some authority figure giving me some impossible goal or trying to manipulate me into fitting some cookie cutter mold that I didn't fit.

I never felt lost or heartbroken. A little scared, at first, that they'd track me down and MAKE me fit back into the mold. (And once I'd grown a little outside the church, trying to fit back in would have been impossible). Then I started to realize that nobody could ever MAKE me do anything I didn't want to do, ever again.

And then I knew I was safe.

[helemon]

I would compare it to having a personal trainer. They're useful as a source of motivation to improve one's health but if nothing in reality was to be gained by having a trainer driving you to "endure to the end, lengthen your stride, do more, be more, reach higher..." then it's really just an unnecessary waist of time and energy that benefits only the trainer ('cause he gets paid for it). When the metaphor is applied to Mormonism it's not just time that's wasted, it's a life that's wasted, which is tragic, and therefore evil.

Jeff

I think there was a conferenece talk like that but it got edited. The guy who suggested that the church was more of a scaffold for how we should live. I don't think he called the church evil though. The only thing I would say in their defense to your assertion Jeff is that when a person gets to the point that you describe above their role should change from trainee to trainer. There are always new people who have not received the training.

[jamech]

(And once I'd grown a little outside the church, trying to fit back in would have been impossible).

It didn't take long for me to get to this point, either. It's kind of like trying to stuff toothpaste back into the tube.

Then I started to realize that nobody could ever MAKE me do anything I didn't want to do, ever again. And then I knew I was safe.

This touches something in me, dogzilla. Safe is an interesting choice of words. I guess I was coming from the perspective that the church provides safety and security and leaving it is a terrifying freefall (but ultimatey the right thing to do).

But as I think about it, "safe" is a very accurate description of how I feel right now.

[skeptic]

Megawatts,
I love your philosophy statement “"Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." --Elie Wiesel

This hits the nail on the head for me.

Thanks for sharing- SoUtSkeptic

[keystone]

:lftl: SKEPTIC AND JEFF, YOUR COMMENTS ARE VERY ACCURATE. THIS REMINDS ME OF A CONFERENCE I ATTENDED IN LAS ANGELES SOON AFTER THE WATTS RIOTS. THE BLACKS AT THE CONFERENCE WERE TALKING ABOUT HOUSE NEGROS TURNING THEIR BACKS ON THE FIELD NEGROS. THEY ALSO TALKED ABOUT THOSE WHO WERE FREED CARING NOTHING ABOUT THOSE WHO WERE STILL SLAVES. THEY SAW THIS AS BEING VERY EVIL. I THINK THERE IS A MORAL IMPERATIVE FOR THOSE WHO OF US WHO HAVE ESCAPED THE SPIRITUAL SLAVERY OF MORMONISM TO TRY TO HELP THOSE WHO ARE STILL IN BONDAGE AND NOT JUST "MOVE ON." KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK EVEN THOUGH IT CAN BE VERY STRESSFUL.

[peter_mary]

It didn't take long for me to get to this point, either. It's kind of like trying to stuff toothpaste back into the tube.



This touches something in me, dogzilla. Safe is an interesting choice of words. I guess I was coming from the perspective that the church provides safety and security and leaving it is a terrifying freefall (but ultimatey the right thing to do).

But as I think about it, "safe" is a very accurate description of how I feel right now.
This is just so deliciously ironic given Boyd K. Packer's talk in the Sunday afternoon session of General Conference (yesterday). His whole talk was dedicated to the idea that the ONLY safe place in this wicked ole' world in which we live is within the confines of the Church. The ONLY way to maintain safety is to stick together, honor the priesthood, keep the Word of Wisdom, and live as faithful to the church standards as you possibly can. The rest of the world may go to hell, but the faithful Mormons will be safe.

It was truly one of the more offensive talks I've ever heard the man give...