Hitchiker to mormon and back - All Parts

[mindbender]

i was converted to mo when i was 22 , it all started one winters day when i was hitch hiking near salisbury , i had been traveling for several years around nz and Australia , now i was back home in england , this was a sentimental journey as i had re traveled the routes my family used to travel on holidays in the 60 ,s yes in those days we used to camp by the burial mounds next to stonehenge , i can still remember the hooting of the owls , such a creepy sacred place , the journey was sad , because the family had long since broken up and spread to the four corners of the world , so i was somewhat reflective , anyway as i was standing on a cold winters day , the evening was falling and the snow trickling down , a strange thing happened , a voice spoke to me seemingly from nowhere , it said , go back to nz , stay there and don,t move , this had never happened to me before , but for the first time in my life i knew exactly what i had to do , so i caught the first train back to london , then the the first plane to nz , when i got home , i sat in my fathers flat and wondered what on earth i had come home for , but i kept to what i had been told , got a job and traveled no more , a few months later i went to a three day rock festival , it was called nambassa and was held on a farm near the sea , there was lots of music of course , but also many displays featuring back to nature lifestyles along with that , there were people walking around naked , i always can remember this guy standing there with a goat , wearing nothing but a hat and a little bell on his penis , also he was holding a staff , this had to be the most un mormon place on earth , however did i end up belonging to it , anways it was scorching hot so i walked down the steep hill to the sea , the water was rough , heavy surf , there were no lifegaurds ect , i went swimming out and got caught in a bad rip, funny thing while i was struggling away , swallowing mouthfulls of seawater , i could see the people on the beach , walking around naked and showing off there bodies , i suddenly realized how vain and totaly stupid it all was , a young man swam out to help me , he risked his own life to save mine , i finaly got out and collapsed on the beach exausted , funny thing in that moment my whole life changed , i could not stop crying with happyness , everything around looked extremly beautifull , i was overcome with gratitude for being alive , unfortunately another teenager was not so lucky that day , and drowned on that very beach , later that day this voice spoke to me again , all it said was , i am your friend , you need no other friend in the world , instantly all the loneliness and rejection i had been carrying around for years fell away , and i was at peace , i now knew there was a God , and reasoned to myself , there must be somewhere on earth to worship him and began to think about joining a religeon ............ more tomorrow

[silverfox]

i was converted to mo when i was 22 , it all started one winters day when i was hitch hiking near salisbury ,

Your adventures sound fascinating! Traveling around NZ and Australia - I am JEALOUS! It will be interesting to hear the rest of your story.:D

[miss taken]

Henz I'm waiting for Part 2, also. :) :o

[mindbender]

Spent most of that night sitting in the Hare Krsna tent listening to the Hare Krsna chanting and a few sermons , next day i started walking across the fields before sunrise and watched the sunrise , that day felt like the sun came up for me only , it rose like a huge red ball of flame in the midst of the sea , all i could think of was how wonderfull it was to be alive , i could swear it was all happening for me alone , but of course it was not , the krsnas gave me an invite to there farm which was at murawai , so next week i set off in search of God more or less , when i got there i met the guy who saved me in the rip, it was his first visit as well and it sort of freaked me out that out of all those 1000,s who were at the festival we should both end up there , i never saw him again after that day , but it would be fair to say he certainly risked his life to save mine , for the next six months i lived on the krsna farm , total vegetarian diet ensured many trips to the local pie shop , chanting would begin at 5.30 am and would carry on untill the spiritual master would enter from his little house up the hill , when he did enter everyone would bow there heads to the floor he would then pick his way thru the hot sweaty bodys to his seat , when he was seated everybody would sit cross legged on the floor and sit for the next two hours and listen to the lecture , usually it would be about spirits bound to earth thru lust , coming back for more and more lives until they set themselves free thru remembering the names of God , during the day i worked on the farm building huts and planting vegetables , i met one interesting guy from Hawai who told me his conversion story , he was a surfi and was sitting on the beach one day when he noticed three people in trouble in the surf , so he went out on his board to help them , when he got there he found two men and a woman terrified , they fought over the board and the men pushed the woman off , he finaly succeded in calming them down enough to save them all , but it was the look of terror on there faces that shook him , and this set him off on a religeous course . there were a few milking cows on the farm , which we milked every day , of course the cow is sacred to hindus , they even build houses out of its muck , i was with arajuna as he was putting the cow into its milking pen , but it got very difficult and kicked him , he flew into this violent rage swearing at the top of his voice and kicking the cow hard out , so i was gently reminding him , hey bro i thought you said this cow is sacred , i learnt a lot of things on the farm but in the end could never except re incarnation , i found myself sitting in the woods reading the bible , i was drawn to it more and more and decided that i wanted to be a christian , but i also believed there needed to be an authority line from God , eventually i had a big fight with a couple of people on the farm because i found they had a gun there , so i left , when i got home to my dads place , i found a D&C on the table , as it turned he had been going out with a mormon lady and she had given him this book , i was soon immersed in its pages and decided to visit a mormon chapel and find out what it was like , end of part two , some more tomorrow

[Born Free]

henz,

I have read your posts with great interest. My personal experience to date has been of no experiences of anything of "another dimension". For years I felt guilt about that, believing (under the influence of Mormonism) that that was a sure sign I was spiritually damaged goods (wanked too many times?), a theme that I still work to expunge.

Then, in my 20s, I came to broadly divide people into a couple of groupings: 1. Those that claimed regular "spiritual" experiences, who I eventually concluded had a tenuous grasp on reality or their sanity - the nutters, based upon their functioning in the various arenas of their life, 2. those like me, who experience little to nothing, and 3. those like you, who seemed rational and genuine, whose experience I could not relate to, but whose sanity I had no basis to doubt.

I have a daughter in this last category. She earns a 6 figure salary in the telecommunications industry, but also regularly "sees" other dimensions. I am still working on how I relate to this last group, but I am most willing to listen and not judge.

I find it interesting that your posting has not evoked much response. I wonder if that is because in passing beyond the "supernatural" beliefs of Mormonism, others have a strong suspicion of such claims.

Any takers?

Does henz's disclosure here generate any discomfort or disbelief in others, maybe it does not fit with your Post-Mo paradigm, or like me, merely, "Interesting, but that is not my experience"?

Daryl

[silverfox]

henz,

I find it interesting that your posting has not evoked much response. I wonder if that is because in passing beyond the "supernatural" beliefs of Mormonism, others have a strong suspicion of such claims.

Any takers?

Does henz's disclosure here generate any discomfort or disbelief in others, maybe it does not fit with your Post-Mo paradigm, or like me, merely, "Interesting, but that is not my experience"?

Daryl

Here's my opinion (since you asked) :)

1. Some readers are following the story and waiting for more info before responding. Maybe they are waiting for the "and back" part? Henz has created quite the cliff hanger for the readers!

2. I never try to question one's spiritual experiences. I have never experienced anything from another "dimension" that looking back, wasn't part of my own creation. I have "spiritual" moments and feelings but nothing like what Henz is describing. It is all so unique to us as individuals, IMO. And remember this occurred in the 70's. That was my era. I remember well everyone trying to experience SOMETHING! It was almost a trend at the time to have these experiences.

3. There may be some skeptics only because we all know how easily we were duped into Mo'ism so maybe we find ourselves a little taken back by these kind of spiritual experiences. But hey, it's not like Henz is trying to create or did create a church (like Joe) or following or something. Well, not yet anyway, right?

Yeah, so Henz bring on Part 3 already. :p

[miss taken]

Here's my opinion (since you asked) :)

1. Some readers are following the story and waiting for more info before responding. Maybe they are waiting for the "and back" part? Henz has created quite the cliff hanger for the readers!

2. I never try to question one's spiritual experiences. I have never experienced anything from another "dimension" that looking back, wasn't part of my own creation. I have "spiritual" moments and feelings but nothing like what Henz is describing. It is all so unique to us as individuals, IMO. And remember this occurred in the 70's. That was my era. I remember well everyone trying to experience SOMETHING! It was almost a trend at the time to have these experiences.

3. There may be some skeptics only because we all know how easily we were duped into Mo'ism so maybe we find ourselves a little taken back by these kind of spiritual experiences. But hey, it's not like Henz is trying to create or did create a church (like Joe) or following or something. Well, not yet anyway, right?

Yeah, so Henz bring on Part 3 already. :p


Okay, I don't know which category I fit in, but..... I remember watching the 'First Vision' when I was about 8, and I can remember distinctly feeling that it was a 'con', that may not have been my exact thought, but I was deeply, suspicious. (so was my dad!!!). So, no spiritual experience there as a child. My spiritual experiences have not really come over the church, though I think it played a constructive role in my life for a while. Mainly, intuitive feelings of when a decision is going to have very far reaching consequences. I have almost always been right on this aspect so I have learned to trust my instinct.

When my dad died, well just before, we talked a lot about things, and he had said that if he could he would come back and send me a message. For the few months after he died, I felt him close on a number of occassions, to the point that he told me there was an old camera somewhere in the house that I should find. I searched and found it, got it printed, most didn't come out, but one or two did, and the ones that did were a trip that my dad and I had taken, with one picture perfect of him smiling at me.

I also felt him tell me that he was surprised that life went on, and that he didn't want me to go and see his body because it was scary and not him anymore.

I also asked him what life was all about, and he told me it was about love, and that there was eternal progression, and that it didn't seem to matter what religion you had been, because love was the over-riding principle.

Okay, you can now all mark me down as crazy!!!! Was it the ramblings of a distraught mind in grief for a loss of a loved one, I'll never know, but one day I hope to find out!!

[mindbender]

Okay, I don't know which category I fit in, but..... I remember watching the 'First Vision' when I was about 8, and I can remember distinctly feeling that it was a 'con', that may not have been my exact thought, but I was deeply, suspicious. (so was my dad!!!). So, no spiritual experience there as a child. My spiritual experiences have not really come over the church, though I think it played a constructive role in my life for a while. Mainly, intuitive feelings of when a decision is going to have very far reaching consequences. I have almost always been right on this aspect so I have learned to trust my instinct.

When my dad died, well just before, we talked a lot about things, and he had said that if he could he would come back and send me a message. For the few months after he died, I felt him close on a number of occassions, to the point that he told me there was an old camera somewhere in the house that I should find. I searched and found it, got it printed, most didn't come out, but one or two did, and the ones that did were a trip that my dad and I had taken, with one picture perfect of him smiling at me.

I also felt him tell me that he was surprised that life went on, and that he didn't want me to go and see his body because it was scary and not him anymore.

I also asked him what life was all about, and he told me it was about love, and that there was eternal progression, and that it didn't seem to matter what religion you had been, because love was the over-riding principle.

Okay, you can now all mark me down as crazy!!!! Was it the ramblings of a distraught mind in grief for a loss of a loved one, I'll never know, but one day I hope to find out!!, thanx for all the replys which my story has prompted , thats a beautifull story not a crazy one , we all want to believe there,s something right .?perhaps i had better say some things before i get written off as a crank , most of the things which i have written about so far happened in a two year period , thirty years on i have lived a pretty normal life , married to one woman for 25 years , had five kids , all raised as mormons and run a small business for a living , this was an exceptional period for me , i spent a lot of time over the last 20 years sitting on church pews seeing and hearing nothing , perhaps wondering where God had gone ,so daryl , yea i was pretty crushed by my own in ability to live the 1000,s of rules mormonisn thrust on my life , but i geuss i will talk about that later, i think my article is positive , perhaps theres a lot of people on this page who think that God has somehow forsaken them , so far i have shown that God is not the autocratic monster he is often made out to be , the only communication i had from him was that he was my friend , as i had had my arse kicked all round the world it felt pretty good to hear that , ,so on with part three ......... just want to say before i begin , i am not writing this to show that the mormon church is true , or that its not true , i am just writing the exsperiences as they happened , you will have to make up your owm mind what they mean , if anything ...on finding the D&C i read it thru and was quite excited , there were lots of advantages in leaving the krsna sect for the mormons , for one ,you could eat as many meat pies as you liked , let alone eggs ,fish, mushrooms and onions , when i asked them what was wrong with mushrooms and onions i was told that they were things of the night The next sunday i went to the mormon church , dressed in my sunday best scruffs and with long hair and a beard , people looked at me shyly as i stood in the foyer alone , a few brave ones came up and said hello , eventually i was introduced to the missionaries , i think they were a bit stunned that after spending all week searching for people to come to church , somebody actually turned up without being invited , i was soon having the baptism discussions and read the B.O.M in a three week period , at this time i was working at a factory where they made vinyl , i would take the B.O.M to work and read it in odd moments , a young tongan guy saw me reading it and it turned out he was a mormon to , he was really excited and was telling me i ought to join ect ect , he also told me that he had fallen down on his marriage vows and that his sister had rang him the night before begging him to come back to church , we were the best of buddies as i would teach him english and he would tell me about the church , later that day he was working inside the machine wiping the steaming hot rollers with a clothe to clean them as the machine was running , perhaps he had not realized the machine was running so fast , suddenly i heard the most terrible scream you could possibly hear , the rag he was using had got caught in the machine and then his hand up to his elbow was sucked in before the machine stopped , worse still nobody could get him out , he was trapped and there was nothing nobody could do except to start the slow proccess of dismantling the machine , he looked at me as if begging for help , i had no clue what to do , eventually the ambulance arrived and put him to sleep , i walked out of the factory in a state of shock and cried on and off for a couple of days , later i visited him in hospital , he had lost his arm , he could not remember the accident at all , i never worked in another factory .. i went thru the discussions without to much oppersition , i was impressed how they always turned up exactly when they said they would , even in the pouring rain , we would sit by the fire and have the discussions , even my Dad joined in it was pretty cosy , a date was set for my baptism and i was as keen as , i decided i would fast for three days because i wanted it to be real , i fasted for two days and then gave up , but my dad said , hey that was a pretty good effort , the day of the baptism came , I invited my family none of whom were members , they all came , the baptism went smoothly but i felt no special force of any kind , i was a bit disapointed , so i asked the missionaries if we could do it again as i did not think it had worked , thats a good sign of how dumb i was , they of course said no .A a few days later i did have a spiritual expserience , i was laying in bed quietly reading in a perfectley calm state of mind suddenly i found that there was the face of a young man staring at me intently about two feet away , he was about twenty with thick black hair that was unkept , i was wide awake and not in a dream as i looked at him his face retreated backwards and upwards to the far corner of the cieling , as it went back the face grew larger and larger with an ever increasing look of pure rage and hatred , i was of course frightened and was scared to sleep alone for a while , i don,t know why these things happened , whoever reads this can make there own mind up , of course most people will just say i was seeing things , to tell you the truth i don,t think i could imagine that kind of hatred out of my own head ,it was intense... I went to a fireside at this time and Loren C Dunn was speaking , he must have noticed me sitting at the back because when he stood to speak he launched a 5 minute tirade about how wrong it was for people to have beards , as he spoke the congregation , some of them turned and took quick glimpses at me , i never could understand why mormon leaders hate beards and its still a mystery to me this day , over the years i have been abused from time to time because of it by various brainwashed zombies , when i searched the scriptures the only one i found about beards was in leviticus , thou shalt not marr the edges of your beard ,, now what was that Joseph F Smith said , if its not in the scriptures don,t believe it , even if i say it myself , don,t belive it , now that is a prophecy , about this time i met my wife , the most kind person i have ever met , we could not marry in the temple because i had not been a member a year , so we married in the chapel , the next two years were the happiest of my whole life .....more later

[silverfox]

Okay, I don't know which category I fit in, but..... I remember watching the 'First Vision' when I was about 8, and I can remember distinctly feeling that it was a 'con', that may not have been my exact thought, but I was deeply, suspicious. (so was my dad!!!). So, no spiritual experience there as a child. My spiritual experiences have not really come over the church, though I think it played a constructive role in my life for a while. Mainly, intuitive feelings of when a decision is going to have very far reaching consequences. I have almost always been right on this aspect so I have learned to trust my instinct.

When my dad died, well just before, we talked a lot about things, and he had said that if he could he would come back and send me a message. For the few months after he died, I felt him close on a number of occassions, to the point that he told me there was an old camera somewhere in the house that I should find. I searched and found it, got it printed, most didn't come out, but one or two did, and the ones that did were a trip that my dad and I had taken, with one picture perfect of him smiling at me.

I also felt him tell me that he was surprised that life went on, and that he didn't want me to go and see his body because it was scary and not him anymore.

I also asked him what life was all about, and he told me it was about love, and that there was eternal progression, and that it didn't seem to matter what religion you had been, because love was the over-riding principle.

Okay, you can now all mark me down as crazy!!!! Was it the ramblings of a distraught mind in grief for a loss of a loved one, I'll never know, but one day I hope to find out!!

My biggest fear is dying before my children. I can't stand the thought of it. I've always told them that if there is a life after this and if there is a way to communicate with them I will.

Thanks for sharing your story, Miss Taken. No way does it come off as "crazy". I am so glad your dad was able to give you comfort afterward. I've never had any one really close to me die so I don't know about any of those kinds of experiences. But I hear about them all the time and they fascinate me. It gives me hope that there is something afterward. I don't want to be separated from my family. It just freaks me out. Believing undoubtedly in a hereafter brought me great comfort and I never thought I would feel otherwise. But I simply just don't know. So I will take good care of myself and do everything I can to stick around here as long as possible.

[shamdiel]

Any takers?

Does henz's disclosure here generate any discomfort or disbelief in others, maybe it does not fit with your Post-Mo paradigm, or like me, merely, "Interesting, but that is not my experience"?

Daryl

Daryl; I guess I had the same problem , as you, for many years. Not only wanking too many times but the associated guilt trip that goes along with that, and everything else, while under the influence of Moism. I did not have any siginficant "another dimension" occurances until after I left the Mo church. I will not mention details because what happened is too far out there for most people to believe and I will not debate it. What I will mention is out of body experiences. When I was a Mo and I felt these obe's comming on, I would strugle against them until I made them go away. These obe's would usually come on me as I was sleeping or just before I fell asleep. Sometimes my struggling was so intense that my wife would reach over a touch me , to wake me, because she was worried by the thrashing about I was doing. It got to the point that I was afraid to go to bed alone, as there would not be anyone around to wake me, if this started again. I was sure it was the Devil trying to drag me down to Hell.

After I left the church and my belife in a Devil, natural curiosity allowed me to just let it happen to see what would happen. Very curious! Found myself crusing around the cosmos at the speed of thought! I also had a conversation with a very striking woman, emitting a brilliant golden light, during one of these obe's. Seems wanking didn't matter! My self guilt and self doubt, fead by the religious beliefs, were what was causing the block!!!
:D

John

[free thinker]

Okay, I don't know which category I fit in, but..... I remember watching the 'First Vision' when I was about 8, and I can remember distinctly feeling that it was a 'con', that may not have been my exact thought, but I was deeply, suspicious. (so was my dad!!!). So, no spiritual experience there as a child. My spiritual experiences have not really come over the church, though I think it played a constructive role in my life for a while. Mainly, intuitive feelings of when a decision is going to have very far reaching consequences. I have almost always been right on this aspect so I have learned to trust my instinct.

When my dad died, well just before, we talked a lot about things, and he had said that if he could he would come back and send me a message. For the few months after he died, I felt him close on a number of occassions, to the point that he told me there was an old camera somewhere in the house that I should find. I searched and found it, got it printed, most didn't come out, but one or two did, and the ones that did were a trip that my dad and I had taken, with one picture perfect of him smiling at me.

I also felt him tell me that he was surprised that life went on, and that he didn't want me to go and see his body because it was scary and not him anymore.

I also asked him what life was all about, and he told me it was about love, and that there was eternal progression, and that it didn't seem to matter what religion you had been, because love was the over-riding principle.

Okay, you can now all mark me down as crazy!!!! Was it the ramblings of a distraught mind in grief for a loss of a loved one, I'll never know, but one day I hope to find out!!


I have read a number of books about Life after Life etc. This seems to be a common theme. How have you loved? It seems to be about love. Also the idea that whatever religion you were, or if you were none at all, seemed to matter little. Did you know that one of the original editions of the "Book of Commandments " (now the Doctrine and Covenants), included a vision that Joseph Smith had, in which he saw his departed brother Don Carlos, and some apostate members, and they were all in the highest kingdom, and very happy? Of course later leaders had it expunged. Don't want any of the faithful thinking they may still go to heaven, even if they apostatize!! :o

As I read more and more stories of those who had passed and come back to life, and those who had been visited by the loved ones, who had passed on permanantly, I realized it did not jive with church teachings. I just kinda know now, deep inside, that all the religious fal-de-rald does not get a lot of mileage in the next life, based on those stories. It does seem to be about love!!

I would probably be inclined to accept what you experienced as genuine! That of course is just my opionion!! ;)

Free Thinker

[Born Free]

henz,

I am really interested in what you are sharing here.

That said, I struggle to read it, because of the absence of shorter paragraphs. Can I make a BIG request to break about every 3-4 sentences, with a blank line separating paragraphs?

You will more successfully maintain my focus that way!

Daryl (the blind)

[mindbender]

I have read a number of books about Life after Life etc. This seems to be a common theme. How have you loved? It seems to be about love. Also the idea that whatever religion you were, or if you were none at all, seemed to matter little. Did you know that one of the original editions of the "Book of Commandments " (now the Doctrine and Covenants), included a vision that Joseph Smith had, in which he saw his departed brother Don Carlos, and some apostate members, and they were all in the highest kingdom, and very happy? Of course later leaders had it expunged. Don't want any of the faithful thinking they may still go to heaven, even if they apostatize!! :o

As I read more and more stories of those who had passed and come back to life, and those who had been visited by the loved ones, who had passed on permanantly, I realized it did not jive with church teachings. I just kinda know now, deep inside, that all the religious fal-de-rald does not get a lot of mileage in the next life, based on those stories. It does seem to be about love!!

I would probably be inclined to accept what you experienced as genuine! That of course is just my opionion!! ;)

Free Thinkerthe most powerful book i have ever read on the after life is, life after death by neville randal , he interveiws a direct voice medium in which persons who have passed on give their own account of what it was like to die , most are down to earth and very factual , the most common theme was that with sudden death the person did not realize they had died , for instance one englishman was running towards the german lines in the world war one and saw a load of germans who just seemed to ignore him , so he jumped into this shell hole and hid , after a while his dead friend appeared to him and he said , what are you doing here your dead , his friend replied , so are you mate you need to come with me , he took a bit of persuading that he was dead , but when he stood up he realized that he was not stiff as he would have exspected from sitting in a shell hole for hours, his freind took him by the hand and they were soon above the battfield , looking back he said , i don,t know where i am going but its got to be better than that lot , eventually he was taken to a hall were there were lots of other people who had died , then he was taken to meet a sister who had died at chid birth , before this time he did not even realize she existed , according to this book people usually meet the person that there are closest to that has passed on , but one loner who had no friends was met by his favourite horse now thats a good one for all those pet lovers , in this world theres light but its not sun light , people live in houses but they build them with there thoughts , if they want to go somewhere they think about it and there on their way , theres libraries for learning , there places to help the mentaly sick to recover , they describe a process were they pass thru something to become more solid (perhaps its the real ressurection who knows ) people come down from higher levels to teach them things , usually in the form of plays that show the purpose of existence , eventually they move on to higher levels , when there ready , its a really interesting account , hope this helps some people anxious about the future or those who have lost loved ones , Henz

[Born Free]

Daryl; I guess I had the same problem , as you, for many years. Not only wanking too many times but the associated guilt trip that goes along with that, and everything else, while under the influence of Moism. I did not have any siginficant "another dimension" occurances until after I left the Mo church. I will not mention details because what happened is too far out there for most people to believe and I will not debate it. What I will mention is out of body experiences. When I was a Mo and I felt these obe's comming on, I would strugle against them until I made them go away. These obe's would usually come on me as I was sleeping or just before I fell asleep. Sometimes my struggling was so intense that my wife would reach over a touch me , to wake me, because she was worried by the thrashing about I was doing. It got to the point that I was afraid to go to bed alone, as there would not be anyone around to wake me, if this started again. I was sure it was the Devil trying to drag me down to Hell.

After I left the church and my belife in a Devil, natural curiosity allowed me to just let it happen to see what would happen. Very curious! Found myself crusing around the cosmos at the speed of thought! I also had a conversation with a very striking woman, emitting a brilliant golden light, during one of these obe's. Seems wanking didn't matter! My self guilt and self doubt, fead by the religious beliefs, were what was causing the block!!!
:D

John

John,

Isn't it scary what fear the Church injects? Some people have to work hard to have minimal success with astral travel, and you sound like you do it very naturally.

I keep an open mind in this area, and watch developments. I am aware that most the experiences that present in a NDE are present in the last moments of consciousness in one of those massive gravitron machines they spin fighter pilots and astronauts up in so they know what the impending loss of consciousness feels like. It is believed that loss of oxygen from the brain produces a euphoric effect along with other sensations.

That on the table, it does not explain objects some people say they saw on the top of cupboards above normal eyesight level, or even conversations outside in hallways.

I would be interested to hear your experience some time, as I am genuienly interested in people's personal experience, but not in fiction. So if you have the time, lay it on us (or me, if they aren't interested!)

Daryl

[miss taken]

John,

Isn't it scary what fear the Church injects? Some people have to work hard to have minimal success with astral travel, and you sound like you do it very naturally.

I keep an open mind in this area, and watch developments. I am aware that most the experiences that present in a NDE are present in the last moments of consciousness in one of those massive gravitron machines they spin fighter pilots and astronauts up in so they know what the impending loss of consciousness feels like. It is believed that loss of oxygen from the brain produces a euphoric effect along with other sensations.

That on the table, it does not explain objects some people say they saw on the top of cupboards above normal eyesight level, or even conversations outside in hallways.

I would be interested to hear your experience some time, as I am genuienly interested in people's personal experience, but not in fiction. So if you have the time, lay it on us (or me, if they aren't interested!)

Daryl

This link takes you to information about a Dutch Study, which is one of the first really scientific explorations into near death experiences..
Apologies if you have seen it before. But very interesting.
From what I understand, if one gets into the area of quantum physics, then the concept of life after life becomes a lot more acceptable (or at least the ability to be in more than one place at a time!!!).
Mary

http://www.paranormalaustralia.com/media/gmsept02.html

[mindbender]

henz,

I am really interested in what you are sharing here.

That said, I struggle to read it, because of the absence of shorter paragraphs. Can I make a BIG request to break about every 3-4 sentences, with a blank line separating paragraphs?

You will more successfully maintain my focus that way!

Daryl (the blind)sorry my english is not very good , will try and improve my sentencing, thanx

[silverfox]

sorry my english is not very good , will try and improve my sentencing, thanx

I think Sturg and some other folks like to see it broken down a little into several paragraphs and not just one big one.

Waiting for the next part - (tapping toe) :D

[Born Free]

This link takes you to information about a Dutch Study, which is one of the first really scientific explorations into near death experiences..
Apologies if you have seen it before. But very interesting.
From what I understand, if one gets into the area of quantum physics, then the concept of life after life becomes a lot more acceptable (or at least the ability to be in more than one place at a time!!!).
Mary

http://www.paranormalaustralia.com/media/gmsept02.html

There is some interesting material on that site, but I wish they would quote sources.

It does bring up this problem of people in all walks and talks of life refusing to record what does not fit comfortably with the prevailing paradigm.

I have seen it before with scientists failing to note homosexual behaviour among animals, because the prevailing Christain paradigm could not accomodate such information. The effect appears to be that the field scientists self-censored what they recorded, UNLESS the beasties have got promiscious in the last 100 years, obviously corrupted by us deviant non-believers! (Send your dog to bed early before watching R rated movies!)

In this instance, rather than record what people said, doctors dismissed it as a figment of the imagination, rather than recording what presented, and then seeing that there was a lot of this activity going on. The western scientific model is a great development over its predecessor, but we have to keep reminding ourselves that it is vulnerable to the blind spot built into the prevailing orthodoxy.

Daryl

[miss taken]

There is some interesting material on that site, but I wish they would quote sources.

It does bring up this problem of people in all walks and talks of life refusing to record what does not fit comfortably with the prevailing paradigm.

I have seen it before with scientists failing to note homosexual behaviour among animals, because the prevailing Christain paradigm could not accomodate such information. The effect appears to be that the field scientists self-censored what they recorded, UNLESS the beasties have got promiscious in the last 100 years, obviously corrupted by us deviant non-believers! (Send your dog to bed early before watching R rated movies!)

In this instance, rather than record what people said, doctors dismissed it as a figment of the imagination, rather than recording what presented, and then seeing that there was a lot of this activity going on. The western scientific model is a great development over its predecessor, but we have to keep reminding ourselves that it is vulnerable to the blind spot built into the prevailing orthodoxy.

Daryl

I really agree with you there Daryl. I take the example of evolution for instance. There was much evidence in early US history that suggests that humans have been around in their modern form for a lot longer than is now currently accepted (ie they appeared about 40,000BC)
but....because it doesn't tie in with current orthodox thinking about how humans developed, it gets swept under the carpet. So, in some ways scientific theory acts like a religion, in that it becomes orthodox. The best theory sits until a better one comes along...

I read a book called the 'Hidden History of the Human Race' which has its fair share of critics, but it makes that point quite astutely...

[shamdiel]

John,
I would be interested to hear your experience some time, as I am genuienly interested in people's personal experience, but not in fiction. So if you have the time, lay it on us (or me, if they aren't interested!)

Daryl

Daryl; The first instance that I can remember, after I left the church, was in 1986 or 87. I was asleep during this one. These things usually start with a loud pop and then a humming tone that goes from high to low. As it is going low you feel like your are falling or being pulled down. I believe it is the sensation of coming out of your body. This feeling scared the hell out of me when I was a Mo. I decided not to be afraid and let it happen.

I found myself floating along, at an incredible speed, headed toward a building across an ocean. Even though I was a long way off I could clearly see the building and a man in a turban sitting in one of the rooms. As soon as I focused on him I was in the room standing in front of him. I knew as soon as I looked at the man that it was the Ayatollah Khomeini. He was setting on a round pink couch or cushion, with his legs crossed and his hands in his lap, palms up. I tried to talk to him but he ignored me. I knew he could both see me and hear me but he would not listen to me or acknowledge me in anyway. He just stared at the floor. I could here voices in the hallway, outside the door, and started to fear if someone came in the room I would be hauled off and killed. Two men came through the door and began talking to the Ayatollah. That is when I figured out that I wasn't in my physical body and the two men couldn't see me.

At that time a voice started talking to me and was explaining what was going on. The odd thing was that the voice wasn't speaking english but I was hearing english. Actually I was hearing both at the same time but could only understand the english. I asked what this conflict, in the middle east, was all about and I was told it was about water. I could see a large sandstone hill along way off in the desert and I could see water running down a hole in the rock. I looked to see it more closely and found myself traveling towards it at a high rate of speed. This thing had to be hundreds of miles away and I could see it clearly. I covered the distance in a second or two.

As I watched the absolutely clear water swirl into the hole and disappear underground, I could hear the voice telling me it was about spirit and life in a desert. I knew that they were fighting over birth rights and God rights and who had the pure undefiled religion... I wondered what would be the outcome of all this... I felt myself traveling backward at a very high rate of speed and when I looked ahead of me, I realized that I was out in space, and I saw the Earth rapidly growing smaller. When I stopped, what I saw shocked me more then anything I have ever seen. The Earth was a burnt up cinder, with large black craters dotting it. It had no atmosphere, no water and no life. It was reeling back and forth and leaving a smoke trail behind it as it traveled through space. The shock of seeing this caused me to hear a loud pop and I set up, back in my home, in my bed. Whoa!!! This was the first I remember but not the last.

John

[Born Free]

Daryl; The first instance that I can remember, after I left the church, was in 1986 or 87. I was asleep during this one. These things usually start with a loud pop and then a humming tone that goes from high to low. As it is going low you feel like your are falling or being pulled down. I believe it is the sensation of coming out of your body. This feeling scared the hell out of me when I was a Mo. I decided not to be afraid and let it happen.

I found myself floating along, at an incredible speed, headed toward a building across an ocean. Even though I was a long way off I could clearly see the building and a man in a turban sitting in one of the rooms. As soon as I focused on him I was in the room standing in front of him. I knew as soon as I looked at the man that it was the Ayatollah Khomeini. He was setting on a round pink couch or cushion, with his legs crossed and his hands in his lap, palms up. I tried to talk to him but he ignored me. I knew he could both see me and hear me but he would not listen to me or acknowledge me in anyway. He just stared at the floor. I could here voices in the hallway, outside the door, and started to fear if someone came in the room I would be hauled off and killed. Two men came through the door and began talking to the Ayatollah. That is when I figured out that I wasn't in my physical body and the two men couldn't see me.

At that time a voice started talking to me and was explaining what was going on. The odd thing was that the voice wasn't speaking english but I was hearing english. Actually I was hearing both at the same time but could only understand the english. I asked what this conflict, in the middle east, was all about and I was told it was about water. I could see a large sandstone hill along way off in the desert and I could see water running down a hole in the rock. I looked to see it more closely and found myself traveling towards it at a high rate of speed. This thing had to be hundreds of miles away and I could see it clearly. I covered the distance in a second or two.

As I watched the absolutely clear water swirl into the hole and disappear underground, I could hear the voice telling me it was about spirit and life in a desert. I knew that they were fighting over birth rights and God rights and who had the pure undefiled religion... I wondered what would be the outcome of all this... I felt myself traveling backward at a very high rate of speed and when I looked ahead of me, I realized that I was out in space, and I saw the Earth rapidly growing smaller. When I stopped, what I saw shocked me more then anything I have ever seen. The Earth was a burnt up cinder, with large black craters dotting it. It had no atmosphere, no water and no life. It was reeling back and forth and leaving a smoke trail behind it as it traveled through space. The shock of seeing this caused me to hear a loud pop and I set up, back in my home, in my bed. Whoa!!! This was the first I remember but not the last.

John
John,
That sounds a pretty powerful experience. Little wonder Mormonism offered little basis of making sense of or working with such an experience.

What response did you get when you spoke of same in Mo circles, or were you hestant to do that?

Daryl

[shamdiel]

John,
That sounds a pretty powerful experience. Little wonder Mormonism offered little basis of making sense of or working with such an experience.

What response did you get when you spoke of same in Mo circles, or were you hestant to do that?

Daryl

I had learned, from sharing other experiences, that my Mormon family and friends would not only not believe I had had a spiritual experience but, they would also try to offer their own explainations as to what I had experienced. Usually something to do with the Devil...:Puking
These things are powerful and fully controllable, by me. By that I mean that I initiate them and they end when I end them. I know that my Mo friends and family do not have the ability to understand how this could possibly be, so I don't say anything to them. I discuss these events with people who want to know, understand and possible learn how to work it themselves. It is a much happier experience that way. :D It is quite a few level above the way I use to pray and a whole new dimision to meditation.

John

[mindbender]

[/QUOTE]three things make a heaven , love , trust and communication

[Born Free]

I had learned, from sharing other experiences, that my Mormon family and friends would not only not believe I had had a spiritual experience but, they would also try to offer their own explainations as to what I had experienced. Usually something to do with the Devil...:Puking
These things are powerful and fully controllable, by me. By that I mean that I initiate them and they end when I end them. I know that my Mo friends and family do not have the ability to understand how this could possibly be, so I don't say anything to them. I discuss these events with people who want to know, understand and possible learn how to work it themselves. It is a much happier experience that way. :D It is quite a few level above the way I use to pray and a whole new dimision to meditation.

John
John,

Interesting the levels of fear these people work from. They cannot listen to your experience and determine for themselves how they feel about it. They have to assign if to "the Devil".

Please tell us (well me anyway) more of what you have experienced and what you have learnt through the process.

Daryl

[miss taken]

John,

Interesting the levels of fear these people work from. They cannot listen to your experience and determine for themselves how they feel about it. They have to assign if to "the Devil".

Please tell us (well me anyway) more of what you have experienced and what you have learnt through the process.

Daryl

Henz in the ward where I lived. We continuously got told of people who had been healed outside the church, then when they got a priesthood blessing, the bone broke again, well, because the healing done outside the church had been of the devil.

SP wife also gloated in telling the story of people speaking in tongues outside the church, and it had been in a foreign language, and an LDS member knew the language and they were cursing God, and praising the devil. Again evidence that Satan rules anything that is not LDS....

Grief....
Mary