Curious journey from Isreal's God to becoming THE God

[Born Free]

One thing that struck me somehere in the last few years is the ridiculousness is the notion that the God of Isreal of the Old Testament should become the God of all Christianity.

The Jews represent a very small percentage of the earths population, likely under 2%; and Yahweh was essentially their tribal Deity. In the early stage there is ample evidence that He coexisted with several other Gods, but that these later came to be labelled as Idols and false Gods. Remember the 10 Commandments did not say, 'There is no other God besides Me'. It said 'Thou shall worship no other God before Me'.

But through the political process whereby Christianity, originally a sect within Judaism, after Jewish fundamentalist terrorists/freedom fighters really pissed off Rome, started to actively distance itself from its Jewish origins.

Eventually it was adopted as the official religion of the Roman Empire, the greatest earthly power that probably has ever existed on the planet. But whilst Christianity distanced itself from the Jews, it never divorced its God.

So, via the reach of the Roman Empire and then following that the ascendancy of science in Western Europe, we see Christianity rise to become the dominate religion in the Western world.

But behind all those Christians is this God originally borrowed from the Israelites. Their tribal God became the Universal God. Even Mormons borrowed the same Israelite God, rather than reinvent their own.

Does that not strike anyone else as highly ridiculous way to grow a God or even for God to roll Himself out to humanity? The God of a small tribe in the hills of the Eastern Mediterranean, gets taken over to become the God of all Christianity in all its flavours, and supposedly THE GOD of all humanity!! :Crazy:

So maybe the Lord's Prayer should start;

Our Father who art in heaven,
Borrowed from the Jews,
Hallowed be thy name,
Thy kingdom come on earth,
To us Christians, not just to the misinformed Jews,
Who persist in believing that You are just theirs.
etc............

Daryl

[peter_mary]

I came to the recognition many years ago that the Bible, especially the Old Testament, was little more than a massively ethnocentric world view that was co-opted by Constantine for the express purpose of perpetuating his empire-building.

The Bible essentially is the Jews declairing THEMSELVES to be God's chosen people, and for whatever whacked-out reason, the rest of the Western World got on board with that. A mystery, to be sure!

What is important is to note that this ethnocentric perspective was hardly unique. The Babylonians were the chosen people of THEIR God, other semitic tribes felt likewise about THEIR God, and really, even many Native American tribes referred to themselves as "The People" and everyone else was "other than The People," (which, I admit, I may be reading too much into, but it SEEMS to still be an ethnocentric world view).

It is also interesting to note that the Jews rallied behind Yahweh because he was a WAR god...a tough old son-of-a-bitch who could kick some major god ass on other gods (if it was his will...sometimes he let the Israelites get THEIR butts kicked, just to teach 'em a lesson. Funny how it all works out in god's favor, eh?) Christianity has worked and worked to turn this war god into a god of love, but it leaves a lot of questions unanswered. And frankly, I think it's why people struggle so much with the transition from the Old Testament to the New.

Mormons took that one step further, claiming that Jesus WAS the god of the Old Testament, which, I don't know about the rest of you apostates, but that NEVER felt very good to me. On the one hand, you have Jesus declaring the importance of "turning the other cheek, blessed by the meek, yada yada yada," and on the other hand, you have him flooding the earth, requiring the death of every man, woman, child and animal in Jericho and any other city they were to capture, and burning Soddom and Gomorrah to the ground while turning Lott's wife to a pillar of salt in the process (okay, I've probably spelled those wrong, but I'm too lazy to look 'em up). I always developed a little twitch in my face and my brain would seize up whenever I tried to reconcile the doctrine that these were one and the same personage responsible for unconditional warfare and unconditional love, all at the same time.

It's enough to make a guy crazy. Which, in my case, explains a LOT! :Crazy:

[free thinker]

The god of the old testament is a very violent god. He also seems petty and sometimes ridiculous.


Kinda like Joseph Smith. :lftl:


ft

[papa]

Daryl says:

"The Jews represent a very small percentage of the earths population, likely under 2%;"

currently at 13.3 million, the world's Jewish population is much much less than 2% of 6.5 billion.

What I have found odd, is that the reported world Jewish census total population pre-WW11, and post WW11, stayed about the same. Even after supposedly 6 mil Jews were killed in the holocaust. Seems odd.

So does noticing that make me an "anti-semite"? :slap:

[papa]

p_m says:

"Mormons took that one step further, claiming that Jesus WAS the god of the Old Testament, which, I don't know about the rest of you apostates, but that NEVER felt very good to me."

Likewise for me p_m. I'd like to know more about the origins of this modern Mormon doctrine. I understand it was not original to Joseph Smith, and have heard it came out of speculation among the 12 following the introduction of Brig's "lecture at the Veil" at the end of his "endowment". But I don't know details etc., anyone able to enlighten us about this doctrine's origins? Cuz yeah, it makes zero sense.

[Born Free]

I came to the recognition many years ago that the Bible, especially the Old Testament, was little more than a massively ethnocentric world view that was co-opted by Constantine for the express purpose of perpetuating his empire-building.

<snip>

It is also interesting to note that the Jews rallied behind Yahweh because he was a WAR god...a tough old son-of-a-bitch who could kick some major god ass on other gods (if it was his will...sometimes he let the Israelites get THEIR butts kicked, just to teach 'em a lesson. Funny how it all works out in god's favor, eh?) Christianity has worked and worked to turn this war god into a god of love, but it leaves a lot of questions unanswered. And frankly, I think it's why people struggle so much with the transition from the Old Testament to the New.

<snip>

It's enough to make a guy crazy. Which, in my case, explains a LOT! :Crazy:
I had not appreciated that Yahewh had been a God of war, but that makes sense.

So it sure must have created problems when the Christians appropriated Him, and then had to repatriate Him - turn him into a peacenik. And it also explains why the Christian God suffers from a bit of a dual personality from time to time.

In fact that line of thinking got me wondering how much the peaceful Christ gospel that emerged might have been evolved to calm the Romans that this religion was not a threat, in fact might even encourage a more passive, compliant population!

Daryl.