Cult brainwashing: The Gift that Keeps on Giving

[dogzilla]

So, I haven't been posting a lot recently (here and there, but not so much) and there have been some events in my life recently taking up some of that energy that usually gets directed here. Anyway, thought I'd stop and share a little irony for y'all.

So I met this guy, right? ;) The circumstances were rather serendipitous and there's been this whirlwind of communicating and learning about each other and it's all very exciting. And, on one hand, this guy and I would make a really great partnership. And he's talking about exactly that. And I was starting to think, "Wow. I met The Guy. We're so right for each other! This is great!"

Then he drops the bomb that it cannot possibly work unless I open my heart to his truth and listen and read and study and learn... about his beloved organization, the Jehovah's Witnesses. :duh

I mean, go ahead and laugh. I do. The irony burns like the fire of 1,000 suns. Bottom line is, he won't even agree to get to know me or spend any time with me unless I'm willing to take the red pill again and cram myself back into another kooky f***kin patriarchal cult. I even told him my story -- in explicit detail -- and he could only react with smug satisfaction that the mormons really screwed that one up and it would never have happened with his Organization because he has The Truth. :Puking Oh, where have I heard that one? There was no empathy or understanding in terms of looking at my experience and validating it and recognizing that I'd already taken this journey. He think he has some New Information for me. M'kay. We all know where this is going. I've been down that road, Neo. We're done.

So I'm walking away from this guy, but I wanted to thank all of you for all the reading and research and posting here. You have given me the framework to see all the little red flags and signposts that marked this guy as a Kool-Aid Drinker long before I got myself too emotionally invested in him. You've given me strength through information to be able to walk away, firm in the knowledge that this is the only right thing to do. If it weren't for this forum and the time I've spent here, I probably would have gone right down that rabbit hole after him, so for all of you, I am so grateful.

Thanks for being here, guys!

:neener:

[helemon]

So I met this guy, right? ;) The circumstances were rather serendipitous and there's been this whirlwind of communicating and learning about each other and it's all very exciting. And, on one hand, this guy and I would make a really great partnership. And he's talking about exactly that. And I was starting to think, "Wow. I met The Guy. We're so right for each other! This is great!"

Then he drops the bomb that it cannot possibly work unless I open my heart to his truth and listen and read and study and learn... about his beloved organization, the Jehovah's Witnesses. :duh

So was this guy just flirty fishing or was he for real? I wonder if he would have dumped you as soon as you joined. Missionaries have been know to use this technique to get baptisms.

[dogzilla]

So was this guy just flirty fishing or was he for real? I wonder if he would have dumped you as soon as you joined. Missionaries have been know to use this technique to get baptisms.

I probably won't ever know, either way.

[Jeff_Ricks]

And I was starting to think, "Wow. I met The Guy. We're so right for each other! This is great!"

Then he drops the bomb that it cannot possibly work unless I open my heart to his truth and listen and read and study and learn... about his beloved organization, the Jehovah's Witnesses. :duhSorry it didn't work out for you, that part has to be a little painful. Glad that you can step back and look at it objectively though, and as you said, "see where this is going." And I'm glad that what we offer here actually does some good once in awhile. :)

backatcha -->:neener:

[dogzilla]

Sorry it didn't work out for you, that part has to be a little painful. Glad that you can step back and look at it objectively though, and as you said, "see where this is going." And I'm glad that what we offer here actually does some good once in awhile. :)

backatcha -->:neener:

Well, especially for a veteran. I know, quite often, some of us who have been posting here a long time begin to question the value of our presence here. I just needed to acknowledge exactly how much I'm still getting out of this.

[elder_nomo]

Geez, Dogzilla, this really sucks! :(
But yeah, thank God (or whoever), you are getting out now before it gets even more complicated and painful to do so.
The one good thing about having drunk the Kool-Aid in the past - you know it's poisoned and you know to avoid it again.
Good wishes and ((((Dogzilla))))

[peter_mary]

Geez, Dogzilla, this really sucks! :(
But yeah, thank God (or whoever), you are getting out now before it gets even more complicated and painful to do so.
The one good thing about having drunk the Kool-Aid in the past - you know it's poisoned and you know to avoid it again.
Good wishes and ((((Dogzilla))))
I never quite thought of it this way, but in a sense, we are all "Kool-Aid Survivors." That creates funny little fraternity/sorority/co-ed kind of place where we are bonded by a shared trauma. Who understands another Kool-Aid survivor better than someone who also survived?

Exactly...

Hugs, baby...hugs.

[free thinker]

Zilla


This is a simple one as you know. A little pain now in trade for a lot of pain later. Take the hit and run like hell!!!

Men are ubiquitous. Someone better waits down the road.


ft

[helemon]

He think he has some New Information for me. M'kay. We all know where this is going. I've been down that road, Neo. We're done.
You could offer him the red pill.
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/reasons.html
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/main2.html
We were all like him once. Has he read anything against the JWs?
http://www.geocities.com/paulblizard/wthistory.html
Jehovah's Witnesses trace their origins to the nineteenth century Adventist movement in America. That movement began with William Miller, a Baptist lay preacher who, in the year 1816, began proclaiming that Christ would return in 1843. His predictions of the Second Coming or Second Advent captured the imagination of thousands in Baptist and other mainline churches. Perhaps as many as 50,000 followers put their trust in Miller's chronological calculations and prepared to welcome the Lord, while, as the appointed time approached, others watched nervously from a distance. Recalculations moved the promised second advent from March, 1843 to March, 1844, and then to October of that year. Alas, that date too passed uneventfully.
See the roots of the two religions are also very similar.

[Born Free]

Zilla,

I was disappointed to hear that something that looked promising for you, turned out disappointing, particularly on that score.

You would have been way too radical for his fundy brain, 'Zilla! I hope you find THE one, and one deserving of your intelligence and character (not to mention appetites)!

Daryl

[puff]

Well, especially for a veteran. I know, quite often, some of us who have been posting here a long time begin to question the value of our presence here. I just needed to acknowledge exactly how much I'm still getting out of this.you know i was just thinking the other day , how come you don,t find somebody steady , that you really like , or perhaps wondering if you really wanted that , so at least you answered one question , yes you do really want that , but as it seems , you can,t find the right person , i am wondering how you got attracted to a jw in the first place , usually two sentences is enough to realize what they are like , so whats the answer to the problem , as you get older it actually gets harder to adjust to a new person in your life ( yes we get set in are ways pretty quick ) ,my best bet is your not involved in any type of community where long term relationships are on the agenda , perhaps florida itself is a very fast moving place which favours casual relationships , so what about internet dating and stuff like that , a lot of people find partners around there favourite hobbies , thats a better way to do it , at least you have one thing in common anyways , better luck next time , its a stressful business finding a partner

[dogzilla]

Men are ubiquitous. Someone better waits down the road.


ft

You keep telling me that. Where is he? I'm exhausted!

[dogzilla]

you know i was just thinking the other day , how come you don,t find somebody steady , that you really like , or perhaps wondering if you really wanted that , so at least you answered one question , yes you do really want that , but as it seems , you can,t find the right person , i am wondering how you got attracted to a jw in the first place , usually two sentences is enough to realize what they are like , so whats the answer to the problem , as you get older it actually gets harder to adjust to a new person in your life ( yes we get set in are ways pretty quick ) ,my best bet is your not involved in any type of community where long term relationships are on the agenda , perhaps florida itself is a very fast moving place which favours casual relationships , so what about internet dating and stuff like that , a lot of people find partners around there favourite hobbies , thats a better way to do it , at least you have one thing in common anyways , better luck next time , its a stressful business finding a partner

First, puff, this is a different part of Florida where it's not all glitz and glam and single-serving relationships. This is a more rural-like part of the state, but still your point is taken: this is not a target-rich environment. That said, I find it impossible to determine if there's chemistry over the internet. I know people meet and marry that way, but I just can't understand how it happens.

Meh. Today I'm just bummed out because I know he won't really be friends either. :(

[hamar]

You keep telling me that. Where is he? I'm exhausted!

Ya know, my mama always told me that good things are worth...never mind.

I read your post yesterday, but didn't know what to say. On the one hand, I'm saddened that someone I consider a friend had to experience that. On the other hand, I'm happy that you are akamai (Hawaiian for street smart) enough to see the futility of this relationship and are strong enough to tell the butthead to take a hike.

As DW and I were exiting Moism, your caustic commentary both pissed me off and opened my mind. I appreciate your presence in this community.

[puff]

First, puff, this is a different part of Florida where it's not all glitz and glam and single-serving relationships. This is a more rural-like part of the state, but still your point is taken: this is not a target-rich environment. That said, I find it impossible to determine if there's chemistry over the internet. I know people meet and marry that way, but I just can't understand how it happens.

Meh. Today I'm just bummed out because I know he won't really be friends either. :(i geuss i make all judgements based on what i see tv , florida is a beach where people walk around nearly naked , or an alligator swamp .

i geuss on the internet you like what a persons saying , find out if you have simalar interests and then swap photos, ( with clothes on )
you could just pretend to believe in his religion , that could be a lot of fun , why don,t you go along with it for a little bit as you seem to like this person a lot , i geuss this is the same person who was confessing his mm problem to you .

perhaps your trying to hard , whatever , good luck

[dogzilla]

I tell ya, this is driving me crazy.

I keep thinking, there's no way he really wants to just throw this away without even trying just because of what some stupid cult is telling him. And then I read all our threads here and on RfM and I know that he probably is willing to throw it all away. They've brainwashed him to believe that being #143,999 is more important than, well, me. Or anything, for that matter. I'm making this sound way easier than it is; I know exactly how difficult it is to find just the right guy -- I've spent 25 years looking. And now I've got to walk away from him. And then Hamar says something (lovely thoughts, thanks) that makes me believe I could do the same thing for him. It's been suggested to me that maybe I am his destabilizing event. And that just messes with my head. It gives me false hope.

I don't know whether to :rant:, :Puking , or :( . (Hey, there's no crying smilie? I guess that would be incongruous, right?) Could someone please whack me over the head with a rolled-up newspaper?

:Crazy:

P.S. Oh, and it's totally okay to laugh with me here about the irony of me falling for a J-freakin-W. I mean, seriously. That's just hysterical.

[peter_mary]

Could someone please whack me over the head with a rolled-up newspaper?

:: puts arm around dogzilla::

::whacks her with rolled-up newspaper::

::gives her noogie::

Now your hair's all messed up. You'll want to fix that.

Canyons are nothing if not confusing, my friend...you figure 'em out after a while, but it does take time. In the meantime...

::hugs dogzilla::

[dogzilla]

Thanks, buddy.

:: leaves hair messed up ::

[noodle]

So zilla, where is this guy? Is he near enough that you two could meet in person? You haven't done that, right? Would that be too weird? Has he been in touch since you "dismissed" him? I'm curious to know if he's for real. If he's for real, I'm wondering just how committed he really is (to the JW faith). Just like you can find numerous postmo sites, you can find post JW sites as well. And just like us, others find their way out...

kisses...

mamajama

[elder_nomo]

I tell ya, this is driving me crazy.

I keep thinking, there's no way he really wants to just throw this away without even trying just because of what some stupid cult is telling him. And then I read all our threads here and on RfM and I know that he probably is willing to throw it all away. They've brainwashed him to believe that being #143,999 is more important than, well, me. Or anything, for that matter. I'm making this sound way easier than it is; I know exactly how difficult it is to find just the right guy -- I've spent 25 years looking. And now I've got to walk away from him. And then Hamar says something (lovely thoughts, thanks) that makes me believe I could do the same thing for him. It's been suggested to me that maybe I am his destabilizing event. And that just messes with my head. It gives me false hope.

I don't know whether to :rant:, :Puking , or :( . (Hey, there's no crying smilie? I guess that would be incongruous, right?) Could someone please whack me over the head with a rolled-up newspaper?

:Crazy:

P.S. Oh, and it's totally okay to laugh with me here about the irony of me falling for a J-freakin-W. I mean, seriously. That's just hysterical.
P_M has already taken care of the newspaper whack so I will just be the nagging old uncle...

Let me suggest spending a little more time over at RfM. Read the posts from the people in "mixed" marriages (believer and non-). People who have been together for decades struggling so hard with that. So much pain and grief. True believers will usually give up anything and anybody to cling to their faith. Do you want to start out in that place?

Another set of posts that could be interesting are from people who have become ward or family "projects." Annoying as hell and rarely change anything. This guy UNDOUBTEDLY would be better off without the JWs, but do you really want to take on a reverse project?

[/nagging]

One more thing...
I love that you are able to smile at the insane irony of it all. And I love that you left your hair the way it was after P_M messed it up. Somehow those things feel so, well... Dogzilla. Unique, independent, smart, funny.

[dogzilla]

So zilla, where is this guy? Is he near enough that you two could meet in person? You haven't done that, right? Would that be too weird? Has he been in touch since you "dismissed" him? I'm curious to know if he's for real. If he's for real, I'm wondering just how committed he really is (to the JW faith). Just like you can find numerous postmo sites, you can find post JW sites as well. And just like us, others find their way out...

kisses...

mamajama

He's 4.5 hours away in Atlanta. I could easily pop up there -- and I do have his address and a google map. I'm currently trying to talk myself out of doing such a thing because of all of elder_nomo's nagging. He's right and I've been saying all the same things to myself. The post-JW sites are basically telling me the same things: he's a goner, this is pointless. I don't know how committed he is either... On one hand, this seems like he's worth trying to fight for, but on the other... :lftl: I know that cult is filling his head full of nonsense that I'm poison to him and I will lose this fight. But you can't win if you don't play, that's what the Florida Lottery ad always says.

Oh, and we've talked a couple times, but I didn't really dismiss him. It was more of a mutual decision where we both saw the dealbreaker that neither of us could negotiate on. He thinks "it's supercool" that I understand where he's coming from. He has no idea why I understand -- he thinks the JW are completely different from the morg. We agreed to keep talking and keep trying to understand one another with no end goal of getting together -- we're just trying to be friends. They'll keep working on him and he'll stop calling; I know where this road goes. It just draws out the agony. If I'm going to be a stronger influence on him than they are, I'm going to have to go up there and dazzle his ass with my secret superzilla powers.

:: slams mussed up head against brick wall ::

Oh, and over at RfM, I just read this:
It may be unreasonable in your situation, BUT...

In my relationship (I was TBM and my GF was a never mo) I constantly asked myself how much I loved her. I knew that if I stayed with her we would have religious problems for the rest of our lives. Also I would be looked down on by everyone.

I finally came to the conclusion that I loved her so much that I would spend eternity in hell for her if I had to. Now I know that a normal TBM would never make that decision, but I did. From there I decided that our relationship was more valued than the church was. I told her that I would marry her no matter what, even if I still believe.

It's been over a year now since I made that decision and I have come to understand that the church was never true. Thank heavens for that, I couldn't imagine how hard it would be to live the life of a TBM and have a nevermo for a wife who was never interested in becoming one.

Basically, if he loves you enough he will do anything for you. I mean ANYTHING, and if he won't do ANYTHING for you then he simply isn't a good partner for marriage. Your future husband should be willing to put you before anything or anyone. If not, then he isn't the one for you.

The Morg teaches families are forever but then they expect loyalty OVER the family. Now that is just sick. I could never imagine placing a church over anyone. In my opinion, people are more important than a corporation, ex-specially the one you love.

And this:

People of many different faiths are often counseled not to become "unequally yoked". The imagery is that of a pair of oxen that share a common yoke but not a common sense of direction, speed, values or priorities. When one is compelled to stop and smell the roses while the other is compelled to reach the end of the row as quickly as possible, the yoke chafes against both of them. It's not even about one being "better" than the other but rather about both moving in the same direction.

Temple marriages are all about exclusivity, obedience and rigidly defined gender roles and it seems pretty unlikely to me (based on what you've described) that you could reach an agreement that would leave you both whole.

In my humble opinion, marriages that will stand the test of time are those in which the husband and wife agree to make choices that respect their partner rather than starting with a list of rigid non-negotiables against which there are no choices.

Moving from the theoretical to the practical, if you cave on the issue of temple marriage, you can expect that to set a precedent for caving on other issues based on your status as an endowed, temple-married LDS woman. And if he caves on the temple marriage issue but does not redefine his relationship to the church at the same time, you can expect to be eventually shunned as the "worldly harlot" who led him to compromise his values and he will, over time, resent you over what he "gave up" for the relationship.

Only you can judge whether it can work, but I would encourage you to give yourself time to make an assessment of whether you are being blinded by love/infatuation to the point that you are being unrealistic about the challenges of an interfaith marriage. If you do move forward, make sure it's with "eyes wide open".

Where's that newspaper? :(

[noodle]

Where's that newspaper? :(

I'd be more inclined to use that rolled up newspaper on this guy to beat some sense into him. ;)

I say that you two should consider meeting in a neutral place (how 'bout one of those nice coastal Georgia islands?) and really see what this is all about. It is hard to get a real handle on things without being able to read body language. It is always possible that he may realize two things: those 140,000 (or whatever number it is) slots are filled, and that the superzilla powers are hard to resist. Just a thought...

mamajama

[dogzilla]

Well, that's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going up there this weekend to scope out the situation, work some mojo/superzilla magic, and establish a stronger friendship.

In a doctrinal JW update: He broke down and partook of a certain herb-that-shall-not-be-named-on-this-board. Somebody has niggling doubts. ;)

Now this may not work out. E_Nomo's words will be on my mind. I'm trying to keep my head on straight about this and make this a fact-finding mission: How committed is he? If he broke down and got some smoke... he may not have to become a project. This might not be as dire as it seems. But I don't have enough information, so I'm going up there to get it.

Dogzilla = not chickenshit. :D

[elder_nomo]

Well, that's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going up there this weekend to scope out the situation, work some mojo/superzilla magic, and establish a stronger friendship.

In a doctrinal JW update: He broke down and partook of a certain herb-that-shall-not-be-named-on-this-board. Somebody has niggling doubts. ;)

Now this may not work out. E_Nomo's words will be on my mind. I'm trying to keep my head on straight about this and make this a fact-finding mission: How committed is he? If he broke down and got some smoke... he may not have to become a project. This might not be as dire as it seems. But I don't have enough information, so I'm going up there to get it.

Dogzilla = not chickenshit. :D
Nagging old uncle e_nomo sees your point and sends his best wishes to you on your fact finding mission. I guess you do have to find out for yourself in person, or you will always wonder "what if...."
Best of luck. You have charmed a lot of us post-mo's so I have no doubts about your mojo/superzilla magic powers :D
You go, girl!

one last nag: be safe! [/nag]

[dogzilla]

Right. If you can't be good, be careful, that's what I always say.

:neener:

[hamar]

Keep ur shit together and take him a copy of Karen Armstrong's, A History of God, if you think he'd read it. What I like about Armstrong is, she doesn't rant about what she surmises from her research, she leaves it to us to decide for ourselves "what is real".
It's hard to call that "anti" when all she does is report the facts.
Anyway, good luck and return and report.

[noodle]

...how was it? I actually thought about you several times yesterday while doing fall clean-up in my yard. If elder nomo is the nagging uncle, I've taken on the "worrying mom" role. :D

mamajama

[dogzilla]

Well... Don't hate on me because I'm irresistable. :neener:


I'll put it this way: Mr. Moral-Conviction-nothing-can-ever-come-of-this... Not so morally convicted. heh.

Let's see... After I arrived in his fair city, we partook of herbal refreshments pretty much immediately (JW no-no, of course), which helped take the nervous edge off. Walked the dogs. (I took one of mine with me, so we walked her, then we went to his place and walked his.) Made dinner together at his place. He took me back to my hotel to walk my dog again... and spent the night with me there. I was nekkid by midnight. :eek: ('Nuther JW no-no.)

Yeeeeaaaaahhhhh...

So, what that tells me is this: he has not gone all that far down the rabbit hole yet. He has not been baptised and may have even been given only milk, no meat yet. I can still maybe convince him to take the blue pill. He did one other thing that the JWs don't believe in: when he cracked open the bottle of wine I brought, we toasted. JWs drink, but they don't believe in toasting. I dunno if he knows that or not, but he said "skol" and clinked glasses with me. (That's Swedish for "cheers" -- he's half Swede.)

We did not talk about religion/cult brainwashing at all -- this was just a fact-finding, getting-to-know-you mission and we have discovered that we are very, very compatible. It seems like we sort of move through life at the same velocity and speed and tend to gravitate toward the same things. He took me to one of his favorite places: the orchid room at the Atlanta Botanical Gardens. (Gorgeous, loved it.)

In fact, I think this religion thing may be the only major source of conflict. That is what we are going to fight about. But there is enough there that I'm willing to fight about it. (And you all know how I can be like a pit bull with a two-year-old if I'm committed to my argument. ;) ) His willingness to so quickly go against his cult's teachings tells me that he does think for himself and may be mutable or at least negotiable. Perhaps when there's a little more intimacy built up, we have a better, deeper understanding of each other, we will both feel in a more safe place to change or consider other points of view. I will pick up the Armstrong book -- I was thinking of getting it anyway -- and in time, he may very well consider reading it. If he doesn't, I'll be able to quote from it and will keep it in my arsenal of secret weapons. (Like the Post-JW books I've been finding. There's a wealth of spiritual ammo in there.)

Anyway, he's busily making plans to travel to Florida to visit me and I think there's a 4.5 hour stretch of I-75 that I'm going to become intimately familiar with. Who knew there's a Starbuck's in Tifton, GA?

I call this good news. It won't be easy. I might fail. But I won't care as long as I gave it everything and this guy is worth my best effort.

[elder_nomo]

Well... Don't hate on me because I'm irresistable. :neener:

Ah, the poor old sod didn't stand a chance. ;)

Congrats on your great weekend!
It sounds like it went extremely well, and your fact finding mission led you to a lot of important facts.
Uncle stick-in-the-mud-nomo still recommends cautious optimism, but less worried and very happy you followed through.

Thanks for the return and report.

[Born Free]

Well... Don't hate on me because I'm irresistable. :neener:

I'll put it this way: Mr. Moral-Conviction-nothing-can-ever-come-of-this... Not so morally convicted. heh.
<snip>
He took me back to my hotel to walk my dog again... and spent the night with me there. I was nekkid by midnight. :eek: ('Nuther JW no-no.)

Yeeeeaaaaahhhhh...
<snip>

..... this was just a fact-finding, getting-to-know-you mission and we have discovered that we are very, very compatible.

<snip>

I call this good news. It won't be easy. I might fail. But I won't care as long as I gave it everything and this guy is worth my best effort.

Just 'a walkin' the dog'! :p

I'm with you 'Zilla. Pays to get your facts straight, or solid, or rigid, or whatever!

Daryl

PS: Boy, how I wish there were more fact-filled girls like you around when I was wasting time going to YA. They were all myth-informed.:duh (That reminds me of a guy I was speaking with recently, who said the first time he did 'it' was in a sauna. The young lady involved claimed that she would not get pregnant if they did it in the sauna and he held his breath. He said it worked!!!! (although he did sneak a few breaths!)

[puff]

Well... Don't hate on me because I'm irresistable. :neener:


I'll put it this way: Mr. Moral-Conviction-nothing-can-ever-come-of-this... Not so morally convicted. heh.

Let's see... After I arrived in his fair city, we partook of herbal refreshments pretty much immediately (JW no-no, of course), which helped take the nervous edge off. Walked the dogs. (I took one of mine with me, so we walked her, then we went to his place and walked his.) Made dinner together at his place. He took me back to my hotel to walk my dog again... and spent the night with me there. I was nekkid by midnight. :eek: ('Nuther JW no-no.)

Yeeeeaaaaahhhhh...

So, what that tells me is this: he has not gone all that far down the rabbit hole yet. He has not been baptised and may have even been given only milk, no meat yet. I can still maybe convince him to take the blue pill. He did one other thing that the JWs don't believe in: when he cracked open the bottle of wine I brought, we toasted. JWs drink, but they don't believe in toasting. I dunno if he knows that or not, but he said "skol" and clinked glasses with me. (That's Swedish for "cheers" -- he's half Swede.)

We did not talk about religion/cult brainwashing at all -- this was just a fact-finding, getting-to-know-you mission and we have discovered that we are very, very compatible. It seems like we sort of move through life at the same velocity and speed and tend to gravitate toward the same things. He took me to one of his favorite places: the orchid room at the Atlanta Botanical Gardens. (Gorgeous, loved it.)

In fact, I think this religion thing may be the only major source of conflict. That is what we are going to fight about. But there is enough there that I'm willing to fight about it. (And you all know how I can be like a pit bull with a two-year-old if I'm committed to my argument. ;) ) His willingness to so quickly go against his cult's teachings tells me that he does think for himself and may be mutable or at least negotiable. Perhaps when there's a little more intimacy built up, we have a better, deeper understanding of each other, we will both feel in a more safe place to change or consider other points of view. I will pick up the Armstrong book -- I was thinking of getting it anyway -- and in time, he may very well consider reading it. If he doesn't, I'll be able to quote from it and will keep it in my arsenal of secret weapons. (Like the Post-JW books I've been finding. There's a wealth of spiritual ammo in there.)

Anyway, he's busily making plans to travel to Florida to visit me and I think there's a 4.5 hour stretch of I-75 that I'm going to become intimately familiar with. Who knew there's a Starbuck's in Tifton, GA?

I call this good news. It won't be easy. I might fail. But I won't care as long as I gave it everything and this guy is worth my best effort.lets hope he doesn,t go see his minister and start confessing and repenting , let alone spewing the intimate details all over the floor

[noodle]

Well... Don't hate on me because I'm irresistable. :neener:

I call this good news. It won't be easy. I might fail. But I won't care as long as I gave it everything and this guy is worth my best effort.


Wow(!)...this IS good news, and I for one am thrilled for you. Funny thing, I was up in p_m's neck of the woods for work yesterday, and met up with him for lunch. I couldn't WAIT to hear the 'zilla weekend update since I hadn't been able to hop on the site to check for myself. Were your ears burning, 'zilla?

And for the record...in just the last couple of weeks, I've had the opportunity to meet (live and in person) both Jeff and p_m, and I'm here to tell all of y'all that they are both as cool in person as they are on this site. Yea for Jeff for this site, and the many friendships that it has sparked.

mamajama

p.s. Tifton, GA has a Starbucks?! Wow, it must've grown since I was through there last, which would have been a gazillion years ago. ;-)

[dogzilla]

Wow(!)...this IS good news, and I for one am thrilled for you. Funny thing, I was up in p_m's neck of the woods for work yesterday, and met up with him for lunch. I couldn't WAIT to hear the 'zilla weekend update since I hadn't been able to hop on the site to check for myself. Were your ears burning, 'zilla?

<snip>
p.s. Tifton, GA has a Starbucks?! Wow, it must've grown since I was through there last, which would have been a gazillion years ago. ;-)
He mentioned to me that y'all were having lunch, so I told him he could update you since you probably wouldn't have a chance to see this post. I gave y'all permission to talk about me behind my back! ;)

And puff, lucky for me, the JW don't require confession, and you know what? Go ahead and let him confess and spill details. Who cares? In my belief system, I did nothing that was wrong, or dirty, or sinful, or anything requiring repentance. And I will not ever allow anyone ever again to question my sexual behavior or try to make me feel bad about something like that. BTDT - still have the t-shirt. He's not baptized, they can't disfellowship him (JW equivalent to excomm), they just won't let him get baptized if he's with me. I have NO problem with that at all. (:duck: "Wanna bite o' this apple, baby? It's delicious!" :D )

This is going to be really, really difficult and I might have to kill him and cook him and eat him, but we just might be able to make it work, too. In every other area, we are perfectly compatible. Time will tell and this is just another leg of the journey... I'm prepared to fail. I'm prepared to get hurt. That could happen. And I'm okay with that, because I'll learn more about myself in the process and will have had at least this and that's better than settling for nothing. :: straps self in for bumpy ride ::

Anyway, yes, Tifton has a Starbucks now -- Where 319 and I-75 intersect, there's every possible manner of franchise for the weary road traveler. Looks exactly like any other stop on I-75.

[peter_mary]

And for the record...in just the last couple of weeks, I've had the opportunity to meet (live and in person) both Jeff and p_m, and I'm here to tell all of y'all that they are both as cool in person as they are on this site.
And mamajama is not only a delightful person to have lunch with, but she brings BREAD, too! :D We kept the PostMo gossip to a minimum, since her colleague would have thought we were more cracked than we already are...but still, we had fun, didn't we?

[Jeff_Ricks]

And for the record...in just the last couple of weeks, I've had the opportunity to meet (live and in person) both Jeff and p_m, and I'm here to tell all of y'all that they are both as cool in person as they are on this site. Yea for Jeff for this site, and the many friendships that it has sparked.I don't think I've ever been given a nicer compliment than that. Thanks. :) It was a pleasure meeting you the other day too.

Jeff

[free thinker]

Zilla


If there is a Starbucks on the way to and from his house then all will be fine! ;)

Congrats on a great weekend and I am hoping the best for you. The count might be down to 144,399 or whatever that number is. :p


ft

[dogzilla]

Zilla


If there is a Starbucks on the way to and from his house then all will be fine! ;)

Congrats on a great weekend and I am hoping the best for you. The count might be down to 144,399 or whatever that number is. :p


ft
Thanks, buddy.

[helemon]

Congrats on a great weekend and I am hoping the best for you. The count might be down to 144,399 or whatever that number is. :p

This always cracked me up about the JWs. Why would God put a limit on who can rule in heaven and what makes the JWs so sure that they are going to be one of those rulers? Hey if he is wrong he will never know because he will never awake during the resurection.