Mormons voting democratic!?

[hamar]

Hope this doesn't violate the nonpolitical rules of the board, but I found this article to be pretty interesting.

http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_4567867

[dogzilla]

We have nonpolitical rules? (I think that's RfM) I thought we could only not talk about The Herb That Must Not Be Named.

;)

[peter_mary]

I whole-heartedly agree with the sentiment of this article (except I would cite other references besides the BofM, but that's just the author making his point...so that's okay). The Mormon stranglehold on local politics in Utah and Idaho has me gasping for air this morning. When I went to the polls yesterday, I was confronted (yet again) with a ballot in which there were NO Democratic challengers to ANY of the Republican incumbants in ANY of the State Senate or House races in my district. Not ONE! The Senator from my district (who was standing just in front of me in line at the polls) is a good ole' boy Mormon rancher millionaire, and whose policies on land use and predator control keep me hopping mad most of the time...was naturally unapposed. He has held this seat in the Idaho State Senate for as long as I've been voting, and the smugness and arrogance and self-serving manner in which he "serves" makes me gag. I abstained from voting for that seat, even though it was futile...

The church is driving the region to theocracy, and it is pretty disturbing to me. At least much of the REST of the nation could see that the Bush Administration, who has been in bed with the Conservative Christian Right for the last 6 years, had to be stopped before the whole NATION became a theocracy. But here in the heart of Zion? Hell, we're still expecting the news any day that we found Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq... :mad: We just line up behind the man like he's a prophet of God. Thank heavens enough of the rest of the country sees through the nonsense...

[dogzilla]

If it makes you feel any better, P_M, you may be pleased to know that Florida just elected a deeply-closeted Gay Republican to be our new governor. Shades of New Jersey, I expect the resignation in shame within a couple years. My gay friends don't support the guy at all because he lives a lie. He campaigned on a platform of being pro-domestic partnerships and just the week before the election, reneged on that stance. I think he's been very careful about remaining in the closet, but now he's the Leader of Florida, so the opposition will be digging up whatever dirt they can make stick to him. Don't get me wrong -- I'm all for gay leaders; I think that's great. But I'm not for lying sack of s**t leaders.

QED

Oh yeah, and Bush's b***h, Katherine Harris: down in flames baby! Woot!

:: happy dance ::

:: Sings "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" ::

[peter_mary]

If it makes you feel any better, P_M, you may be pleased to know that Florida just elected a deeply-closeted Gay Republican to be our new governor. Shades of New Jersey, I expect the resignation in shame within a couple years.
What my great state of Idaho managed to accomplish yesterday was approve a Constitutional Amendment regarding the definition of marriage that is, as far as I know, the strictest in the country. It basically allows for NO rights to ANY partner, under ANY circumstances unless you are lawfully wedded heterosexual partners. We just became the marriage Nazis of the nation. What is stunning to me is that the amendment had to pass by 2/3 majority...and it apparently has.

I am so mad I could spit. I am furious that we allow bible-based fear to creep into a document like the State Constitution. People are all concerned about the demise of the American Family if we allow same-sex couples to wed, yet we support a multi-billion dollar industry that is obsessed with Brad and Angie and Jennifer and all the other Icons of American Cinema who seem utterly unable to conduct their personal lives and relationships in any manner remotely similar to "the Traditional American Family."

I am embarrased for my State. Truly. :o

And sad for the citizens who see themselves walled off permanently from basic civil rights, not because they're bad, but because they love "the wrong way." How is that even possible? :( The damage of the Bush administration might be undone elsewhere in this nation over the course of the next decade, but Idaho has institutionalized his zealous Christian bent and WE'LL be living with that legacy for a long, long time.

The only solace I have is knowing that me and my family stood adamantly and vocally opposed. But that does a hell of a lot of good to the people who see the door closing on them...

[dogzilla]

I can totally understand your frustration. I felt exactly the same way when The Shrub! was elected governor here. We've got all kinds of stupid stuff in this state, as we all well know.

But the winds are a-changin' my friend.


Rummy's steppin' down (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/08/rumsfeld/index.html). This is just getting better.

Oh, and the Dems just took one more seat in the Senate (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/bop/). One more and Congress will be under full control of the Democraps. (Typo intentional)

All I want for Christmas is Impeachment. :neener:

[elder_nomo]

.......
Oh yeah, and Bush's b***h, Katherine Harris: down in flames baby! Woot!
:: happy dance ::
:: Sings "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" ::
I hear she's going up to Virginia to help with the recount. :duck:

.....
The only solace I have is knowing that me and my family stood adamantly and vocally opposed. But that does a hell of a lot of good to the people who see the door closing on them...
It DOES matter P_M, that there are people like you willing to stand up in the face of overwhelming opposition. I think it gives hope and courage to those people who are behind the closing door.


All I want for Christmas is Impeachment.
You've been good all year - I think you should get everything you wish for!! ;)

[helemon]

:: Sings "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" ::

What amazed me was all the votes Foley received. It just shows how many people vote straight ticket.

[helemon]

When I went to the polls yesterday, I was confronted (yet again) with a ballot in which there were NO Democratic challengers to ANY of the Republican incumbants in ANY of the State Senate or House races in my district. Not ONE!

This happened in IN as well with Dick Lugar. Why is that? I realize that the Dems may think they have no hope to win and don't want to put up the money but still put somebody on the ticket. Our elections will never truly represent the people until running for public office is something that the average american can afford to do not just the ultra wealthy and well connected. The current method breeds cronyism and hegemony.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony

[helemon]

All I want for Christmas is Impeachment. :neener:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/the06fix/index.php?id=338
John Conyers, a Democrat of Michigan, is now in line to become the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, which has the authority to begin hearings and an investigation into whether the planning and selling of the Iraq war was a constitutional crime. Last week, the Washington Post first reported that if Ms. Pelosi, a Democrat of California, becomes House majority leader, she will keep the seniority system intact for selecting committee chairmen in Congress. An aide to Ms. Pelosi confirmed the report yesterday.

[papa]

If it makes you feel any better, P_M, you may be pleased to know that Florida just elected a deeply-closeted Gay Republican to be our new governor. Shades of New Jersey, I expect the resignation in shame within a couple years. My gay friends don't support the guy at all because he lives a lie. He campaigned on a platform of being pro-domestic partnerships and just the week before the election, reneged on that stance. I think he's been very careful about remaining in the closet, but now he's the Leader of Florida, so the opposition will be digging up whatever dirt they can make stick to him. Don't get me wrong -- I'm all for gay leaders; I think that's great. But I'm not for lying sack of s**t leaders.

QED

Oh yeah, and Bush's b***h, Katherine Harris: down in flames baby! Woot!

:: happy dance ::

:: Sings "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" ::


absotootly, dear lady! Like Haggard, the hypocrites need to be sunshined. Good news on Harris! Congrats to the people of Florida for outvoting the machines!

[papa]

Hope this doesn't violate the nonpolitical rules of the board, but I found this article to be pretty interesting.

http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_4567867

Congrats to the Trib for publishing Mr. Voros' essay, he makes sense.

[dogzilla]

absotootly, dear lady! Like Haggard, the hypocrites need to be sunshined. Good news on Harris! Congrats to the people of Florida for outvoting the machines!

Speaking for something like 16 million people: Thank you! We finally accomplished a non-f***ked up election in this state. I'm so proud.

I want to take back what I said about wanting impeachment for Christmas. What I'd really like to see is Bush & Co. tried and convicted for treason. By the time an impeachment hearing would be complete, Bush's term will be over, so impeachment may be pointless. And that doesn't excuse any of it.

[Born Free]

Speaking from this (my) Australian perspective, I passed a huge sigh of relief to see that finally there are some checks and balances in place to slow down the dangerous trajectory and rhetoric from your Republican President.

His black & white, fundamentalist world view scares the living hell out of most thinking people in the rest of the Western world.

And 'Zilla, thanks for your contribution the redressing the wrong done two election ago down in Florida.

On top of the above, I could not be more delighted to see Rumsfield go: the arrogant so and so. His insistance that Iraq could be held post-invasion, with 1/3rd the military force that the professionals said it took, showed clearly how much he brought his arrogant mindset across from private enterprise, into an area that costs lives (big time), when you get it wrong (but of course it wasn't his sons, daughters, and relatives that were dying there). I hope US and world history will reserve a special place for Bush and Rumsfield.

I would go so far as to say, I'd like to see Rumsfield tried in a court of law for some of the human rights abuses that he not only endorsed, but encouraged.

Oh the dangers of men who are convinced absolutely that God and Right are on their side.

Daryl

[helemon]

On top of the above, I could not be more delighted to see Rumsfield go: the arrogant so and so. His insistance that Iraq could be held post-invasion, with 1/3rd the military force that the professionals said it took, showed clearly how much he brought his arrogant mindset across from private enterprise, into an area that costs lives (big time), when you get it wrong (but of course it wasn't his sons, daughters, and relatives that were dying there). I hope US and world history will reserve a special place for Bush and Rumsfield.


I don't think there is much Rumsfeld could have done about the troop levels. It's not like there are a bunch of enlisted GIs hang out at the barracks stateside twidling their thumbs or new recruits beating down the militaries door to enlist. I supposed it could be argued that they should have stayed in Afghanistan until Bin Laden was captured. And it is because so many Americans felt that Bush rushed into Iraq rather than letting the inspectors do their work that might be keeping people from signing up for the war.

[Born Free]

I don't think there is much Rumsfeld could have done about the troop levels. It's not like there are a bunch of enlisted GIs hang out at the barracks stateside twidling their thumbs or new recruits beating down the militaries door to enlist. I supposed it could be argued that they should have stayed in Afghanistan until Bin Laden was captured. And it is because so many Americans felt that Bush rushed into Iraq rather than letting the inspectors do their work that might be keeping people from signing up for the war.
Helemon,

My thinking is, if you haven't got the resources to do the job well, don't sqaunder resources (and lives) doing a half-arsed job. The above is particularly the case, when you look at the degree to which the case for going into Iraq was fabricated around the as-still-unfound WMDs.

Not only have they not completed the task, they have damaged their reputation and provided a dangerous enemy with a rallying cause and essentially a morale boost.

Daryl

[skeptic]

Besides sending a message about the war, I hope our government leaders have received the message the nation is tired of the radical Evangelism which has become a part of this adminstration.

SoUtSkeptic

[puff]

What my great state of Idaho managed to accomplish yesterday was approve a Constitutional Amendment regarding the definition of marriage that is, as far as I know, the strictest in the country. It basically allows for NO rights to ANY partner, under ANY circumstances unless you are lawfully wedded heterosexual partners. We just became the marriage Nazis of the nation. What is stunning to me is that the amendment had to pass by 2/3 majority...and it apparently has.

I am so mad I could spit. I am furious that we allow bible-based fear to creep into a document like the State Constitution. People are all concerned about the demise of the American Family if we allow same-sex couples to wed, yet we support a multi-billion dollar industry that is obsessed with Brad and Angie and Jennifer and all the other Icons of American Cinema who seem utterly unable to conduct their personal lives and relationships in any manner remotely similar to "the Traditional American Family."

I am embarrased for my State. Truly. :o

And sad for the citizens who see themselves walled off permanently from basic civil rights, not because they're bad, but because they love "the wrong way." How is that even possible? :( The damage of the Bush administration might be undone elsewhere in this nation over the course of the next decade, but Idaho has institutionalized his zealous Christian bent and WE'LL be living with that legacy for a long, long time.

The only solace I have is knowing that me and my family stood adamantly and vocally opposed. But that does a hell of a lot of good to the people who see the door closing on them...The strange thing about this is NZ has quite a lot of gay people parliment , most Americans seem to find this abhorent , however , if homosexuality is full of evil darkness and a sin before god , then it would figure that nz society must be full of evil darkness as well , for allowing such evil people to be in power , however this is not the case , nz society seems to have a fair amount of charity about it , most people get a reasonably fair deal , recently however i watched a documentry about sheriff joe , i was shocked to find that people were being locked up for quite long periods for things which in nz are not even crimes , one women was locked up for the 32 time for the crime of prostitution (here its legal ) ok so prostitution may not be very ethical , but locking people away for it , what kind of society is that , others were locked away for having one joint in their pockets or not paying a few fines , the corridors were gaurded with taser toting gaurds who exspect total submission to there every whim ( nazi hitler shades ) , then for some reason , a inmate was attacked , beaten and strangled to death , on his autopsy vital organs were removed to prevent incriminating evidence , nobody was prosecuted for this young mans death , sheriff joe constantly talked down on his prisoners as nothing but bums and no hopers , did all this bother Americans , nope , sheriff joe got voted back in as sheriff with a 67 % majority , all americans cared about was that he was keeping the streets safe , sheriff joe sat smugly behind his desk and contemplated the idea that he might be president , people should vote for him becuase he keeps the streets clean , and geuss what , they will , becuase for some reason , they seem to love the moralistic thug type leader who walks round all day with his head up his arse .
along with this , i was quite moved to watch young persons throwing themselves off the golden gate bridge with regular abundance , 23 so far this year , for some reason , america , which can spend billi0ns on war and trips to the moon , can,t be bothered to put a fence up to stop them jumping off , what am i raving on about here , nobody minds spending millions on locking up people for minor midemeanors , but a suicide fence is way out of line , i geuss i could go on about this for a while but probably a few are already switching off , but do i really think that people with problems such as homosexuality can do a better job of running a country than moralist right wing chistian types , actually yes , there far more likely to recognise the suffering of those in perils than moralists , who see every condition of life that is alien to their point of view as a threat , the final outcome of all this is , a whole sub class of people living within america who totaly hate the place and wilfully revert to total anarchy at the earliest possible moment to pay the system back for constant and relentless abuse by moralistic fear based government , and so puff finishes his obituary on the problems of America and wonders why he bothered as he,s never going to live there anyway

[helemon]

Helemon,

My thinking is, if you haven't got the resources to do the job well, don't sqaunder resources (and lives) doing a half-arsed job. The above is particularly the case, when you look at the degree to which the case for going into Iraq was fabricated around the as-still-unfound WMDs.

Not only have they not completed the task, they have damaged their reputation and provided a dangerous enemy with a rallying cause and essentially a morale boost.

Daryl

I think there was definitely some confirmation bias in their projections and I think they definitely overestimated the response of the Iraqi's to the invasion. If Bush hadn't been in such a rush to go into the country it may have been a bit better. It may be necessary to split that country into three countries. If only the allies had done that over half a century ago! It is clear that the Iraqi's have as much anymosity toward each other as they do toward the Americans who are trying to make them play nice.

[helemon]

there far more likely to recognise the suffering of those in perils than moralists , who see every condition of life that is alien to their point of view as a threat , the final outcome of all this is , a whole sub class of people living within america who totaly hate the place and wilfully revert to total anarchy at the earliest possible moment to pay the system back for constant and relentless abuse by moralistic fear based government ,

The other day I accidentally caught the tail end of a christian morning show. The female host was pondering the question of why people despise Christians? The male host speculated that it was because they had the truth and so Satan was fighting against the truth by making people hate Christians and that it was an end times thing. They are so blind to how their arrogance that they have the truth and everyone else is wrong could be offensive. Or their desire to impose their own religious values on others.

I wonder how these hosts would feel if they lived in a country where heterosexuality was illegal? Would they accept the will of the majority or would they fight for the right to have heterosexual sex and have the legal rights associated with those partnerships? People are resentful of Christians because Christians are such a powerful force in politics of late and they do not have a live and let live attitude but want everyone to live by the laws of the Bible even if they don't believe in the bible and scientific evidence contradicts the bible.

[papa]

I think there was definitely some confirmation bias in their projections and I think they definitely overestimated the response of the Iraqi's to the invasion. If Bush hadn't been in such a rush to go into the country it may have been a bit better. It may be necessary to split that country into three countries. If only the allies had done that over half a century ago! It is clear that the Iraqi's have as much anymosity toward each other as they do toward the Americans who are trying to make them play nice.

Bush did what he was told to do by Tel Aviv. The current result-civil war and a formally divided Iraq-is precisely the result called for by Israeli leaders in the 1980's and onward. And that's not all Israel is demanding of its American lackeys.

Did anyone notice that Israel is currently engaged in a massacre of a Gazan village, Beit Hanoun? This has been condemned worldwide, but USA has vetoed any security council resolution condemning the aggression against a civilian population. The more one looks at the situation, the more obvious it becomes that Israel controls DC. Go Lieberman! When Israel needs his "democrat" vote in the senate, Joe will be there for them. As will the rest of the bought and blackmailed senators. :slap:

Whatever happened to elected officials that put USA first? Like, actual American patriots?

[peter_mary]

In fairness to the State of Idaho, I found out while on a weekend getaway (where I did not have internet access), that Idaho in fact defeated the proposed Constitutional amendment that would have created the most restrictive definition of marriage in the nation. It was very, very close, so close that the papers assumed it would pass, but after the dust had settled, they only managed 63% of the vote, 3% short of the 2/3 majority that was required.

I feel a little bit better, especially knowing that nearly 40% of us here in Idaho are sane... :Crazy: And the rest? Hell, they're Mormons...

[jamech]

In fairness to the State of Idaho, I found out while on a weekend getaway (where I did not have internet access), that Idaho in fact defeated the proposed Constitutional amendment that would have created the most restrictive definition of marriage in the nation. It was very, very close, so close that the papers assumed it would pass, but after the dust had settled, they only managed 63% of the vote, 3% short of the 2/3 majority that was required.

I feel a little bit better, especially knowing that nearly 40% of us here in Idaho are sane... :Crazy: And the rest? Hell, they're Mormons...

Oh man, p_m this is good, good news!!! As a fellow idahoan I've followed this with interest, but gave up on it in the days after the vote. Very cool!!!