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free thinker
4th December 2006, 11:09 AM
Although I know we have discussed this topic many times here I thought this WSJ article made it very simple and concise.

I am not sure what it is about being human that makes it so hard for us simply to say. " I may have been deceived" ?



ft


'Cognitive Dissonance'
Became a Milestone
In 1950s Psychology
December 4, 2006; Page B1
Leon Festinger, a social psychologist at Stanford University, was studying how and why rumors spread when he read about the aftermath of a severe earthquake that shook India in 1934. People who lived in a region of the country that had felt the shock but were spared death and destruction began circulating rumors that other terrible disasters were about to befall them -- a cyclone, a flood, another earthquake or "unforeseeable calamities."

Why, Mr. Festinger wondered, would rumors arise that provoked rather than allayed anxiety, especially among people who hadn't suffered any immediate loss? And why were the rumors so widely accepted?

His conclusion derailed his analysis of rumors and put him on the track of a milestone in psychological theory: When feelings and facts are in opposition, people will find -- or invent -- a way to reconcile them. The people who had narrowly escaped the earthquake were scared, but their fear seemed largely unjustified. The rumors provided people with information that fit how they already felt, reducing what Mr. Festinger called their "cognitive dissonance." His 1957 book on the subject was widely influential in many fields, and the theory is still studied and applied in advertising and market research, politics, education and health.

Why, for example, do people who know cigarettes are bad for their health continue to smoke? This is classic cognitive dissonance: They know one thing and feel another.

Mr. Festinger believed this incongruity is as uncomfortable to the human organism as hunger. One way or another, the anxiety must be assuaged. So the smoker builds a bridge -- a rationalization -- from feeling to fact: If he stopped smoking, he'd gain weight, which would also be unhealthy; some risks are worth taking to have a full life; the risks of smoking have been exaggerated. Indeed, in a 1954 survey asking people if they felt the link between lung cancer and cigarettes had been proven, 86% of heavy smokers thought it wasn't proven, while only 55% of nonsmokers doubted the connection.

Cognitive dissonance also explains why many people read advertisements for products they have already bought. Almost inevitably, they have made a choice that involved compromises. The car they purchased gets great mileage, but isn't stylish or powerful. After reading a loving description in a newspaper or magazine, they feel less conflicted about their decision -- their dissonance has been reduced.

Because of cognitive dissonance, facts can be as malleable as clay. In 1951, the Princeton and Dartmouth football teams played a particularly competitive and rough game. A sample of students from each school were later shown the same film of the game and asked to note incidents of rough or illegal play. Dartmouth students saw mostly Princeton's offenses; Princeton students saw mostly Dartmouth's.

But where Mr. Festinger found the richest raw material for his theory was in a cult that developed in Chicago in 1954. A woman Mr. Festinger called Marion Keech claimed she was receiving messages from another planet, Clarion. The messages predicted that on a given date, a cataclysmic flood would engulf most of the continent. Those who joined Mrs. Keech's sect would be picked up by flying saucers and evacuated from the planet.

A brief newspaper story about the cult came to the attention of Mr. Festinger. He was reminded of the followers of a New England farmer, William Miller, who predicted that the Second Advent of Christ would occur in 1843. Thousands of people who believed Miller's prophecy prepared for the world to end. But 1843 passed without incident. Far from admitting that the prediction was wrong, the Millerites attempted to lessen their cognitive dissonance in two ways: They changed the date of the Second Advent to the following year and stepped up their campaign, trying to convince even more people that their belief was right.

Mr. Festinger and two colleagues infiltrated Mrs. Keech's movement, acting as participants for three months. They watched as about two dozen well-educated, upper-middle-class people, "who led normal lives and filled responsible roles in society," quit their jobs and threw away their possessions. Before the dates of the expected flood, the cult was mostly averse to publicity and had no interest in attracting other believers.

On the day before the flood, the group was told that at midnight a man would appear at Mrs. Keech's house and take them to a flying saucer. But no knock came at her door, and the group struggled to find an explanation for why there would be no flying saucer or flood. At 4:45 a.m., the group said, a message arrived from God saying He had stayed the flood because of their strength.

What interested Mr. Festinger was not so much this face-saving explanation as what the cult members did in the following weeks. Rather than shunning public attention as they had before, they began zealously proselytizing. "There were almost no lengths to which these people would not go now to get publicity and to attract potential believers," Mr. Festinger wrote. "If more converts could be found, then the dissonance between their belief and the knowledge that the prediction hadn't been correct could be reduced."

Write to Cynthia Crossen at cynthia.crossen@wsj.com

peter_mary
4th December 2006, 11:15 AM
When feelings and facts are in opposition, people will find -- or invent -- a way to reconcile them.

What more could we possibly say?

Thanks for the article!

lynsie
4th December 2006, 05:40 PM
This subject still fascinates me. I don't think I'd linked cognitive dissonance to proselytizing before. If what I believed were true everyone would believe it, but there is a world full of people who don't believe. Solution: Convert them all!!:duh
The human brain works in mysterious ways...

helemon
4th December 2006, 05:47 PM
This subject still fascinates me. I don't think I'd linked cognitive dissonance to proselytizing before. If what I believed were true everyone would believe it, but there is a world full of people who don't believe. Solution: Convert them all!!:duh
The human brain works in mysterious ways...

And since not believing the dogma means that nonbelievers will go do hell and endure eternal anguish and or lead the entire human race to social and spiritual destruction the believer must convert them or fight against them even to the point of bloodshed. They are just doing it for the good and salvation of the entire human race after all.:duh

lynsie
4th December 2006, 05:53 PM
And since not believing the dogma means that nonbelievers will go do hell and endure eternal anguish and or lead the entire human race to social and spiritual destruction the believer must convert them or fight against them even to the point of bloodshed. They are just doing it for the good and salvation of the entire human race after all.:duh

Scary fuzzy logic!!! We use this emoticon a lot but it seems like it always applies :duh
A picture is worth a thousand words :duh :duh

helemon
4th December 2006, 06:14 PM
People who lived in a region of the country that had felt the shock but were spared death and destruction began circulating rumors that other terrible disasters were about to befall them -- a cyclone, a flood, another earthquake or "unforeseeable calamities."

Why, Mr. Festinger wondered, would rumors arise that provoked rather than allayed anxiety, especially among people who hadn't suffered any immediate loss? And why were the rumors so widely accepted?
Because our Christian based culture has been fed a steady diet of impending doom and calamity connected with the "second coming of Christ." I wonder if these same rumors are seen in non-Christian communities. I wonder how many of these rumors were started by preachers using the event to scared the tithe out of their followers.

His conclusion derailed his analysis of rumors and put him on the track of a milestone in psychological theory: When feelings and facts are in opposition, people will find -- or invent -- a way to reconcile them. The people who had narrowly escaped the earthquake were scared, but their fear seemed largely unjustified. The rumors provided people with information that fit how they already felt, reducing what Mr. Festinger called their "cognitive dissonance." His 1957 book on the subject was widely influential in many fields, and the theory is still studied and applied in advertising and market research, politics, education and health.
The rumors fit in with the Christian destruction schemas that had been implanted in their brains since childhood.

Why, for example, do people who know cigarettes are bad for their health continue to smoke? This is classic cognitive dissonance: They know one thing and feel another.

Because they are an ADDICTIVE DRUG!! They also help to calm peoples nerves and back then there weren't a lot of drugs specially taylored to treat anxiety and today they are still cheaper in the short term than prescription medicine especially if you have no insurance. Besides back then a lot of people probably died of heart attacks before the full effects of cancer from smoking took hold. Dennis Leary pointed out that cigarettes take years off your life during the part of your life when it is the least enjoyable to be alive. His rationalization was so what if he don't live to experience Alzheimers, or having someone change his depends or spend years waiting to die in an old folks home.

Mr. Festinger believed this incongruity is as uncomfortable to the human organism as hunger. One way or another, the anxiety must be assuaged. So the smoker builds a bridge -- a rationalization -- from feeling to fact: If he stopped smoking, he'd gain weight, which would also be unhealthy; some risks are worth taking to have a full life; the risks of smoking have been exaggerated. Indeed, in a 1954 survey asking people if they felt the link between lung cancer and cigarettes had been proven, 86% of heavy smokers thought it wasn't proven, while only 55% of nonsmokers doubted the connection.

I agree that people often pick facts to validate their life choices.

Cognitive dissonance also explains why many people read advertisements for products they have already bought. Almost inevitably, they have made a choice that involved compromises. The car they purchased gets great mileage, but isn't stylish or powerful. After reading a loving description in a newspaper or magazine, they feel less conflicted about their decision -- their dissonance has been reduced.

Everyone wants to feel validated in the decisions they have made.

But where Mr. Festinger found the richest raw material for his theory was in a cult that developed in Chicago in 1954. A woman Mr. Festinger called Marion Keech claimed she was receiving messages from another planet, Clarion. The messages predicted that on a given date, a cataclysmic flood would engulf most of the continent. Those who joined Mrs. Keech's sect would be picked up by flying saucers and evacuated from the planet.

That sounds familiar.:duh

"If more converts could be found, then the dissonance between their belief and the knowledge that the prediction hadn't been correct could be reduced."

It also took their minds off all the possesions they had thrown away. They had committed so much to the cause it was easier to believe it more strongly than let go and admit they had been duped. Plus I bet the leader of the group wanted to distract her followers from her failure and so used the idea that they had to get more converts as a way to give them something to focus their attention on rather than letting them feel like they had been lied to. Keep the followers busy so they don't have time to find their way out of the maze. Just like the magician using misdirection to cover his slight of hand.

puff
4th December 2006, 08:50 PM
Scary fuzzy logic!!! We use this emoticon a lot but it seems like it always applies :duh
A picture is worth a thousand words :duh :duhand perhaps the most scary thing of all is , that a short time ago , we were all doing it to

lynsie
5th December 2006, 05:38 PM
and perhaps the most scary thing of all is , that a short time ago , we were all doing it to

I know! Isn't it strange? Sometimes I try to put myself back in the old mormon mindset and I just can't. It seems so obvious now that it just doesn't make logical sense. But back then it was so emotionally compelling...

david
5th December 2006, 07:48 PM
I know! Isn't it strange? Sometimes I try to put myself back in the old mormon mindset and I just can't. It seems so obvious now that it just doesn't make logical sense. But back then it was so emotionally compelling...

For a fascinating illustration of this, visit this link:
http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/?p=856

I just about fell out of my chair reading some of the posts. From my perspective, much of this is laugh-out-loud funny, but most of it is just plan sad. Cog-dis just drips all over the place. But there are also a few refreshingly sane posts in there too.

lynsie
6th December 2006, 05:58 PM
For a fascinating illustration of this, visit this link:
http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/?p=856

I just about fell out of my chair reading some of the posts. From my perspective, much of this is laugh-out-loud funny, but most of it is just plan sad. Cog-dis just drips all over the place. But there are also a few refreshingly sane posts in there too.

Thanks for the link David. I think I have been there before, but the post they currently have on their front page Dear (fMh: Mormon History, Truth and Reconciliationis) just exactly what we've been talking about. It's a whole discussion on how to rationalize your way around the facts to continue believing things that are clearly not true. I found it pretty upsetting. It brought back that old feeling from when I was a doubting member. I definitely don't want to go back there!

free thinker
7th December 2006, 02:53 AM
I like this one from that site.

The church had an odd beginning, and the Lord had the members do some odd things. That doesnt mean it was a huge mistake. It takes a while to understand, but it can be done. Dont let random ideas from random unknown people from the internet sway you - study for yourself, and study what Smith and Young and Taylor and Woodruff actually wrote themselves. Not what other people think they wrote.

Comment by Jeremy — November 22, 2006 @ 10:11 am


Odd indeed! And one of those things written by Young is below as my signature. How in the world I wonder would Jeremy reconcile it?

ft

peter_mary
7th December 2006, 01:55 PM
It takes a while to understand, but it can be done.

No argument from Peter_mary that it "can" be done...the question is, "should it be done?" Should we rationalize away our cognitive dissonance and settle into blind faith of an unseen God who asks his followers to do "odd things?"

Interestingly, and the thing that the "rationalizers" never get to appreciate, is that the cog/dis goes away once you quit trying to make the unfittable fit. I find it odd that God's ways are confusing, while man's ways are pretty straightforward. I would think it would be the reverse...

free thinker
8th December 2006, 12:09 PM
...the question is, "should it be done?"


It has been my experience that when we try to rationalize something that does not make sense to us we have to continue building higher walls of dissonance to keep out the minds ability to reason. We come to one of two ends I think.

1 We limit or minimize the information we get that does not fit our rationalization.

2 We settle with the facts and realize we have some work to do.

One may even continue to associate with the original group as the individual at the web site that admits having removed her name from church rolls. But the relationship will be healthier with limited expectations and a more open assesment of the facts.

You can run from the truth but you cannot hide. It has it's own needling pervasiveness. This is why it is folly to try to obfuscate the church's history. The best thing the boys on Temple could do is release the storm with all it's furry and ride it out. Every effort they make at nuance and obfuscation gives strength to movements like postmormonism.

In the end all most are asking for is integrity. Something touted by the bretheren at every turn.

ft

puff
13th December 2006, 03:00 AM
...the question is, "should it be done?"


It has been my experience that when we try to rationalize something that does not make sense to us we have to continue building higher walls of dissonance to keep out the minds ability to reason. We come to one of two ends I think.

1 We limit or minimize the information we get that does not fit our rationalization.

2 We settle with the facts and realize we have some work to do.

One may even continue to associate with the original group as the individual at the web site that admits having removed her name from church rolls. But the relationship will be healthier with limited expectations and a more open assesment of the facts.

You can run from the truth but you cannot hide. It has it's own needling pervasiveness. This is why it is folly to try to obfuscate the church's history. The best thing the boys on Temple could do is release the storm with all it's furry and ride it out. Every effort they make at nuance and obfuscation gives strength to movements like postmormonism.

In the end all most are asking for is integrity. Something touted by the bretheren at every turn.

ftyes and when i opened my mouth in priesthood one day and suggested that the bretheren lacked integrity because of their failure to reveal the real truth to latter day saints i was forever banished and deemed a man of infinite sin , proud , rebellious and with no respect for the authority of the church , shortly afterwards the missionarys ceased to visit our home , even tho it is loaded to the brim with less actives and missionary contacts , how deep those comments must have cut them , the ambassadors of truth , accused by a nobody of not telling the truth .
free thinker , i know you had your name removed , how was it , i am gradually building up enough courage to do likewise , we have a new bishop who is a real zealot , its only a matter of time before they axe my family ( my two girls are living de facto with us ) so when the crunch comes its going to fall on all of us , i was also thinking of suing the church for damages as i was driven to a nervous breakdown in 1990 which has left me permanently scarred , why don,t we have a lawyer on the board willing to take on board various greviances and present lawsuits as seems applicable , its the only thing that they (the bretheren ) will understand as far as realising the damage they cause to peoples lives

free thinker
14th December 2006, 06:35 PM
free thinker , i know you had your name removed , how was it ,


Puff it was liberating. To me it was the ultimate way to expell mormonism from my life. I just asked not to be numbered with them.

I cannot tell what it would be like for anyone else but I have never had a moments regret. I only regret not having known the truth sooner.

And in the words of Bono " Dont let the bastards grind you down".

ft