Deleted Threads.....

[silverfox]

From time to time you will see that threads have been deleted. We have had several requests from some of our members to delete threads. The reasons have been to protect their identity. Or a TBM spouse has happened upon their internet activity and has discovered the site and personal information regarding their situation.

Sometimes we have to use our best judgement and make a decision to delete a thread or post that may have the potential to cause issues on the board. Or we may feel that the board is being taken advantage of to promote someone's personal agenda. There can be many reasons why we may delete a thread or post.

We may not always make the right decision but our goal is to maintain a site where we hope members can feel comfortable participating in. And sometimes that means making decisions we wish we didn't have to.

If any member has any questions or concerns regarding any deletion of any posts or threads please feel free to PM myself or Jeff with those questions and concerns and let's talk about it.

Thanks everyone, for your participation and the respectful manner in which you present yourselves.

[shamdiel]

Kudos! You are doing a very good job. Very much appreciated by me. Keep up the good work. Many people are benefiting from this excellent site.
Thank you all! John

[silverfox]

Kudos! You are doing a very good job. Very much appreciated by me. Keep up the good work. Many people are benefiting from this excellent site.
Thank you all! John

Thanks, John. Your comments are very much appreciated. Jeff and I appreciate all feedback, good and bad.

Of course, it will be impossible to please everyone but our intent is to do the best job we are capable of, using our best judgement. That means making and learning from our mistakes as well as reaping the rewards.

[lsands]

Trying to balance the different issues and needs is not an easy job. I'm glad I don't have to worry about it! Thanks so much for what you both contribute. I don't know how you find the time to monitor the board so closely!

Laraine

[silverfox]

Trying to balance the different issues and needs is not an easy job. I'm glad I don't have to worry about it! Thanks so much for what you both contribute. I don't know how you find the time to monitor the board so closely!

Laraine

Thanks, L. I'm sure that at least MY boss anyway, would like to know the answer to that, too. :eek:

[darin]

For what it's worth....... I'm sad to see that the "Homosexuality and the Church" thread get closed. Despite the 'closed' nature of Ryan's comments, it seemed that there was some worthwhile discussion going on. I, for one, was learning more about myself, as well as others.

I've participated on numerous threads on homosexuality on various message boards--it's frusterating that I can't seem to find 'a permanent' home to continue the discussion with others who are not gay themselves. (I regularly post on FAIR regarding the 'gay marriage' issue, but usually get slandered, insulted, and scorned, and never seem to make any headway. Shocker, I know. :rolleyes: )

Thanks for the good discussion, while it lasted, everyone!

[Born Free]

For what it's worth....... I'm sad to see that the "Homosexuality and the Church" thread get closed. Despite the 'closed' nature of Ryan's comments, it seemed that there was some worthwhile discussion going on. I, for one, was learning more about myself, as well as others.

I've participated on numerous threads on homosexuality on various message boards--it's frusterating that I can't seem to find 'a permanent' home to continue the discussion with others who are not gay themselves. (I regularly post on FAIR regarding the 'gay marriage' issue, but usually get slandered, insulted, and scorned, and never seem to make any headway. Shocker, I know. :rolleyes: )

Thanks for the good discussion, while it lasted, everyone!

I too particulalry value a full and frank dialogue with gay post-Mos.

They offer me a different angle on some issues that is most helpful in discovering my blind spots, which is as precious as gold for me.

As frustrating as some of the pevious discussion was, it did help clarify my own thinking, and that is the unique value of the respectful exploration with sincere, open minded intent.

Daryl

[Born Free]

For what it's worth....... I'm sad to see that the "Homosexuality and the Church" thread get closed. Despite the 'closed' nature of Ryan's comments, it seemed that there was some worthwhile discussion going on. I, for one, was learning more about myself, as well as others.

I've participated on numerous threads on homosexuality on various message boards--it's frusterating that I can't seem to find 'a permanent' home to continue the discussion with others who are not gay themselves. (I regularly post on FAIR regarding the 'gay marriage' issue, but usually get slandered, insulted, and scorned, and never seem to make any headway. Shocker, I know. :rolleyes: )

Thanks for the good discussion, while it lasted, everyone!

I too particulalry value a full and frank dialogue with gay post-Mos.

They offer me a different angle on some issues that is most helpful in discovering my blind spots, which is as precious as gold for me.

As frustrating as some of the pevious discussion was, it did help clarify my own thinking, and that is the unique value of the respectful exploration with sincere, open minded intent.

Daryl

[free thinker]

The site is great. I trust your judgement. Do what you think is right!! You have my support!!

Free Thinker

[miss taken]

For what it's worth....... I'm sad to see that the "Homosexuality and the Church" thread get closed. Despite the 'closed' nature of Ryan's comments, it seemed that there was some worthwhile discussion going on. I, for one, was learning more about myself, as well as others.

I've participated on numerous threads on homosexuality on various message boards--it's frusterating that I can't seem to find 'a permanent' home to continue the discussion with others who are not gay themselves. (I regularly post on FAIR regarding the 'gay marriage' issue, but usually get slandered, insulted, and scorned, and never seem to make any headway. Shocker, I know. :rolleyes: )

Thanks for the good discussion, while it lasted, everyone!

I'll agree with Darin the whole way there, I understood the many points of view there, and felt I was getting out of my comfort zone and developing my perspective further.

For what it's worth I really think the church should allow same sex marriage, and that was an opinion that I came to entirely from that thread.

Mary

[silverfox]

I appreciate this valuable feedback. Please know you can start a thread to discuss the topic. There are no issues with this. We are NOT AGAINST discussing homosexuality.

Darin, I would love to see you start a thread about the specifics you would like to discuss that you feel were not productive on other boards.

The point of closing the thread had NOTHING to do with the topic at all. We felt that the board was being taken advantage of to promote a personal agenda. It could have been ANY topic.

We felt that the intent that was disclosed was questionable. IMO, it wasn't in sync with the direction the author was taking the thread.

We also regret that the thread was closed. When a new thread was started by the same author and links were provided that we felt were in conflict with his supposed intent, we had to make a difficult decision. I should clarify that I made the decision and Jeff supported me. The blame rests on me.

So please, please, please feel free to start your own thread regarding the same topic. Any topic. We don't want there to be any fear here. WE will learn from sharing our suggestions, ideas, and our experiences.

If you would like - feel free to PM Jeff or myself and we can talk about the specifics. We are open to discuss anything! We are only a PM away.

EDITED TO ADD:

I forgot to add that the author of the thread in question did, in fact, come to the conclusion he was looking for. And he posted it in bold toward the end.

Please keep in mind that we receive feedback privately and some members were becoming uncomfortable with the direction the thread was taking.

We try our best to weigh both sides. That's all we can do. Thanks again for all your feedback. :)

[Jeff_Ricks]

I appreciate this valuable feedback. Please know you can start a thread to discuss the topic. There are no issues with this. We are NOT AGAINST discussing homosexuality.

Darin, I would love to see you start a thread about the specifics you would like to discuss that you feel were not productive on other boards.

The point of closing the thread had NOTHING to do with the topic at all. We felt that the board was being taken advantage of to promote a personal agenda. It could have been ANY topic.

We felt that the intent that was disclosed was questionable. IMO, it wasn't in sync with the direction the author was taking the thread.

We also regret that the thread was closed. When a new thread was started by the same author and links were provided that we felt were in conflict with his supposed intent, we had to make a difficult decision. I should clarify that I made the decision and Jeff supported me. The blame rests on me.

So please, please, please feel free to start your own thread regarding the same topic. Any topic. We don't want there to be any fear here. WE will learn from sharing our suggestions, ideas, and our experiences.

If you would like - feel free to PM Jeff or myself and we can talk about the specifics. We are open to discuss anything! We are only a PM away.


I second Silverfox's comments. Please feel free to start a new thread on the subject or continue subthreads that you feel needs more discussion. It falls on Silverfox and to a lesser extent me to make difficult decisions about when someone has crossed the line and is no longer using the forum as intended but is taking advantage of it as an opportunity to promote an “agenda” that some might find offensive and disrespectful. So please feel free to talk away about homosexuality. It is not in the slightest a taboo subject in and of itself! It’s the way that it or any other subject is presented that makes the difference. As the statement at the top of this page states, “The line has been crossed when someone ceases saying, "This is what I believe," and begins saying, "This is what YOU should believe.” For example, in the case of the thread in question, when bzcutah began representing (or at least strongly implying) that his views are direct from God so all should listen then the line had been crossed. I hope that clarifies some things about this forum and where the boundaries have been drawn.

Let me try to get the ball rolling with a new thread I'll post soon after this one called "Should a person be forced to change their sexual orientation".

Jeff

[darin]

Silverfox and Jeff,

I need to clarify, and perhaps, apologize. My previous lament in this thread that I seem unable to find ‘a permanent home in which to discuss homosexuality with others, especially those who are not gay themselves’ was not meant to be directed towards Post-Mormons, as either an organization or a message board. It was more a general expression of discouragement that the level of understanding in the world is such that often, closed-mindedness makes such open exchanges almost impossible—not any rules of this message board, itself.

I realize that the thread was closed out of respect for those who may be gay themselves, because of the perceived inciting agenda of one or two posters. I realize that it was closed to prevent pushing an “anti-gay” agenda, if you will, in order to make sure that gays feel comfortable being here—that they feel ‘free from attack,’ I suppose.

I didn’t mean to sound ungrateful, or critical, of the moderators here at Post-Mormons. I think you guys do a great job at what surely is a very difficult task. I do not know whether some gay Post-Mormon members here sent PM’s, asking for the thread to be closed. Perhaps they did. If so, I’d hope that they can see the potential benefits of allowing the discussion of some topics which may or may not be perceived as ‘hurtful,’ as long as they are spoken with a minimum of respect, at least.

Having to verbalize my thoughts in this post makes me wonder what exactly I wish could have happened—and what I mean to say in all of this—if I have a point! Lol… I guess my take on it is this: As a gay man, I am becoming accustomed to having to defend myself against those who I perceive to be intolerant in the name of ‘God’s love.’ I expect a certain level of resistance from them—that is to be expected, when one is discussing such a controversial topic. Some may find such opposing views to be offensive—my view is, unless there is dialogue (including that which may be offensive), how can real understanding ever be reached? I suppose my point is that I hope we don’t always squelch every opposing viewpoint, just because it’s religiously motivated and could be perceived to be ‘damaging,’ or ‘intolerant.’ I, for one, welcome the dialogue, because new awareness is often born from such crucibles of potentially inflammatory debate.

Again, I’m not meaning to point fingers at anyone—Silverfox and Jeff—you guys are GREAT. I apologize if I appeared critical of you, or this forum. Such was not my intent. I’m just grateful for the opportunity to be here, I feel very comfortable discussing anything, and welcome future exchanges—whether they be incendiary, or laid back.

P.S.--I appreciate the gesture of starting a new thread on the subject. I will post there, as I have comments, and as I am able. Thanks, again!!!

[Jeff_Ricks]

Silverfox and Jeff,

I need to clarify, and perhaps, apologize. My previous lament in this thread that I seem unable to find ‘a permanent home in which to discuss homosexuality with others, especially those who are not gay themselves’ was not meant to be directed towards Post-Mormons, as either an organization or a message board. It was more a general expression of discouragement that the level of understanding in the world is such that often, closed-mindedness makes such open exchanges almost impossible—not any rules of this message board, itself.

I realize that the thread was closed out of respect for those who may be gay themselves, because of the perceived inciting agenda of one or two posters. I realize that it was closed to prevent pushing an “anti-gay” agenda, if you will, in order to make sure that gays feel comfortable being here—that they feel ‘free from attack,’ I suppose.

I didn’t mean to sound ungrateful, or critical, of the moderators here at Post-Mormons. I think you guys do a great job at what surely is a very difficult task. I do not know whether some gay Post-Mormon members here sent PM’s, asking for the thread to be closed. Perhaps they did. If so, I’d hope that they can see the potential benefits of allowing the discussion of some topics which may or may not be perceived as ‘hurtful,’ as long as they are spoken with a minimum of respect, at least.

Having to verbalize my thoughts in this post makes me wonder what exactly I wish could have happened—and what I mean to say in all of this—if I have a point! Lol… I guess my take on it is this: As a gay man, I am becoming accustomed to having to defend myself against those who I perceive to be intolerant in the name of ‘God’s love.’ I expect a certain level of resistance from them—that is to be expected, when one is discussing such a controversial topic. Some may find such opposing views to be offensive—my view is, unless there is dialogue (including that which may be offensive), how can real understanding ever be reached? I suppose my point is that I hope we don’t always squelch every opposing viewpoint, just because it’s religiously motivated and could be perceived to be ‘damaging,’ or ‘intolerant.’ I, for one, welcome the dialogue, because new awareness is often born from such crucibles of potentially inflammatory debate.

Again, I’m not meaning to point fingers at anyone—Silverfox and Jeff—you guys are GREAT. I apologize if I appeared critical of you, or this forum. Such was not my intent. I’m just grateful for the opportunity to be here, I feel very comfortable discussing anything, and welcome future exchanges—whether they be incendiary, or laid back.

P.S.--I appreciate the gesture of starting a new thread on the subject. I will post there, as I have comments, and as I am able. Thanks, again!!!

Thank you for the feedback Darin. I think you've made some good points regarding how positive change comes about through dialogue, not through censorship.

It also occured to me while reading your post that you and others of the gay community have most likely developed a thicker skin on this subject than I have. I admire your courage and resolve to remain true to yourself in spite of what at times must be a discouraging tide of ignorance.

Jeff

[silverfox]

Silverfox and Jeff,

I need to clarify, and perhaps, apologize. My previous lament in this thread that I seem unable to find ‘a permanent home in which to discuss homosexuality with others, especially those who are not gay themselves’ was not meant to be directed towards Post-Mormons, as either an organization or a message board. It was more a general expression of discouragement that the level of understanding in the world is such that often, closed-mindedness makes such open exchanges almost impossible—not any rules of this message board, itself.

I realize that the thread was closed out of respect for those who may be gay themselves, because of the perceived inciting agenda of one or two posters. I realize that it was closed to prevent pushing an “anti-gay” agenda, if you will, in order to make sure that gays feel comfortable being here—that they feel ‘free from attack,’ I suppose.

I didn’t mean to sound ungrateful, or critical, of the moderators here at Post-Mormons. I think you guys do a great job at what surely is a very difficult task. I do not know whether some gay Post-Mormon members here sent PM’s, asking for the thread to be closed. Perhaps they did. If so, I’d hope that they can see the potential benefits of allowing the discussion of some topics which may or may not be perceived as ‘hurtful,’ as long as they are spoken with a minimum of respect, at least.

Having to verbalize my thoughts in this post makes me wonder what exactly I wish could have happened—and what I mean to say in all of this—if I have a point! Lol… I guess my take on it is this: As a gay man, I am becoming accustomed to having to defend myself against those who I perceive to be intolerant in the name of ‘God’s love.’ I expect a certain level of resistance from them—that is to be expected, when one is discussing such a controversial topic. Some may find such opposing views to be offensive—my view is, unless there is dialogue (including that which may be offensive), how can real understanding ever be reached? I suppose my point is that I hope we don’t always squelch every opposing viewpoint, just because it’s religiously motivated and could be perceived to be ‘damaging,’ or ‘intolerant.’ I, for one, welcome the dialogue, because new awareness is often born from such crucibles of potentially inflammatory debate.

Again, I’m not meaning to point fingers at anyone—Silverfox and Jeff—you guys are GREAT. I apologize if I appeared critical of you, or this forum. Such was not my intent. I’m just grateful for the opportunity to be here, I feel very comfortable discussing anything, and welcome future exchanges—whether they be incendiary, or laid back.

P.S.--I appreciate the gesture of starting a new thread on the subject. I will post there, as I have comments, and as I am able. Thanks, again!!!

Thanks so much, Darin, for that very valuable post. Although I have been defensive regarding my decision to close the thread, I don't feel you were being critical at all.

I find it very unfortunate that Ryan chose to leave the forum.

I want to clarify that the thread was closed because, again, I felt the author was taking advantage of the forum and not being honest in his intent. THAT is what made me uneasy.

I will have the same uneasy feelings regarding ANY topic when it is apparent that the author is not being honest in their intent. I don't want to see any members on this forum taken advantage of.

I hope we can continue to have open forward discussions regarding any topic. All I ask is that our members be honest in their intent.

Thanks again, Darin and to all you wonderful members for your participation.

[bzc]

Silverfox, you've said many times that you wished I hadn't left.

I haven't. I still watch this place.

You guys do a fine job here, and I am in agreement with all the rest. You do what you need to do.

But, I would like to comment on your honesty trip..

My honesty and forthcoming of my intent was never decietful. That you think it was, is why I decided not to post.

I didn't come here to hurt anyone.
I told you that I started that post, because I wanted to learn. That is/was 100% true.

You came at me telling me that I had an agenda. I agreed, and I also pointed out that everyone posting here in this forum has an agenda.

I never lied, or came here with deciet.


You will not see me posting anything else here in this forum ever again. Because I don't come here to shadow box with anyone, I think it deters from the conversation.

All of these secret agenda comments and dialog are what made me want to pack up and leave.

So I have no intent on debating my honesty with you, nor do I plan on debating here any more [period].

But I just wanted to send out a comment that may or may not help your judgement in the future.

There was no lack of honesty in my questions or my responses. I never denied having an agenda, I never denied having opinion, and I never denied any accusations of forming opinions based on the responses of that conversation.

What I do deny, is the claim that I started that thread or posted in that thread without honesty.

My intent was to learn from the dialog in that thread, and I did. Mission accomplished.

What got me, is that the links that I posted were removed, that explained that many people left homosexuality.

But there were people posting other testimonials in favor of homosexuality.

I believed that if someone posting pro-homosexuality testimonials were allowed, then post-homosexuality testimonials ought to be allowed too.

There was no hate in the links that I posted, just former gay men speaking about their departure from the homosexual lifestyle.

I thought there was some bias and hypocrasy in deleting my links, but leaving the other links that were opposite of what I posted.

[I hope that this doesn't get deleted too, I hate working hard on a post just to see it removed]

Anyway, I still have love for your message board, for this community, and for the conversations that go on here. So I won't leave, but I will simply keep my mouth shut (as I expect will please a few people here)....

Take care..

BTW- Darin, I really enjoyed debating with you. I truly learned a lot!


Here is a link, that reminds me of that thread in question:

SNL on Utah (http://www.behindzioncurtain.com/media/SNLVIDEOWM.wmv)

[Jeff_Ricks]

Ryan, I’d like you to post again. We only ask that posters abide by the rules. Thanks for the Saturday Night Live link!

Jeff

[silverfox]

Silverfox, you've said many times that you wished I hadn't left.

I haven't. I still watch this place.

You guys do a fine job here, and I am in agreement with all the rest. You do what you need to do.

But, I would like to comment on your honesty trip..

My honesty and forthcoming of my intent was never decietful. That you think it was, is why I decided not to post.

I didn't come here to hurt anyone.
I told you that I started that post, because I wanted to learn. That is/was 100% true.

You came at me telling me that I had an agenda. I agreed, and I also pointed out that everyone posting here in this forum has an agenda.

I never lied, or came here with deciet.


You will not see me posting anything else here in this forum ever again. Because I don't come here to shadow box with anyone, I think it deters from the conversation.

All of these secret agenda comments and dialog are what made me want to pack up and leave.

So I have no intent on debating my honesty with you, nor do I plan on debating here any more [period].

But I just wanted to send out a comment that may or may not help your judgement in the future.

There was no lack of honesty in my questions or my responses. I never denied having an agenda, I never denied having opinion, and I never denied any accusations of forming opinions based on the responses of that conversation.

What I do deny, is the claim that I started that thread or posted in that thread without honesty.

My intent was to learn from the dialog in that thread, and I did. Mission accomplished.

What got me, is that the links that I posted were removed, that explained that many people left homosexuality.

But there were people posting other testimonials in favor of homosexuality.

I believed that if someone posting pro-homosexuality testimonials were allowed, then post-homosexuality testimonials ought to be allowed too.

There was no hate in the links that I posted, just former gay men speaking about their departure from the homosexual lifestyle.

I thought there was some bias and hypocrasy in deleting my links, but leaving the other links that were opposite of what I posted.

[I hope that this doesn't get deleted too, I hate working hard on a post just to see it removed]

Anyway, I still have love for your message board, for this community, and for the conversations that go on here. So I won't leave, but I will simply keep my mouth shut (as I expect will please a few people here)....

Take care..




Here is a link, that reminds me of that thread in question:

SNL on Utah (http://www.behindzioncurtain.com/media/SNLVIDEOWM.wmv)

Thanks for posting this. It is greatly appreciated. :)

I am going to PM you to discuss this.

[bigeddy]

Okay, okay, I guess I will have to reply to this one.

If you (bzc) want to claim that you were honest in your posting, I will challenge.

I did not participate much in that entire exchange but I did read it. I was confused at the reasons for editing things and for closing the thread. I read the reasons given by those managing the board and decided it was someone elses balliwick to call those shots. BUT, now I'm a bit miffed.

In your above post you claim honesty and an agenda but you have never, to my memory, clearly stated that agenda. Admitting you have one is not the same as honestly owning it. I want to hear it clearly. What was your agenda?

Ed

[silverfox]

This is just an FYI in case members may question why the links were removed -

The links were removed because they were against Forum Policy. Period.

I hope members feel they can PM me to discuss any concerns regarding this. I am open to ideas, suggestions, etc as long as they are within Forum guidelines.

Be warned - I will not debate it publicly. It takes away from the real purpose of the Forum.

:)

[silverfox]

I recently received a request from a member to delete all threads and posts they had created due to anonymity issues that was impacting TBM family members.

It is unfortunate and we apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused anyone.

Some of you will notice that your status and number of posts may have changed due to this request.

[why me]

It is obvious that something went wrong with the church and homosexuality discussion and its closure. I think that Ryan is still hurt about it and bigeddy is still alittle miffed. And then there were members who enjoyed the thread and the posts because it was a learning experience and allowed an individual to come out of a comfort zone. And so there was a problem with its closure. But what was that problem? My take on it is one of inexperience. The forum was basically in its infant stage and the moderators were afraid of members becoming hurt by certain posts. Everyone was rather sensitive at that time. Most posters were into the stage thing and the moderators felt that the sight was meant for recovery and stages of recovery. But still there was some
inexperience involved from the posters and moderators involved but this would be completely natural because it was all such a new thing. I think that we can learn much from the FAIR boards in how to handle wayward posts. I am not in favor of sending a private message to wayword posters because it is too personal---a private one on one. But a public message from the moderator seems more humane and less threatening because it is public and indirect. And there should be at least three public warnings to the individual before he or she is unplugged. The main threat to a good dialogue is the emotional responses where people no longer respond with reason and reflection but from an emotional reaction which is always defensive and passive aggressive. It becomes a shouting match.
Of course people have agendas.Look at our friend helemon when he posted at FAIR. His post name immediately alerted the moderators to be on his trail. And he was warned about his posts. And helemon survived the 'shock'.
But I also think that difference of opinion is a good thing for the forum. It allows people to grow in mind and in soul. We develop through a shared conversation of respect, tolerance and difference. Before I joined this forum I had the feeling that two many posters were patting each other on the back in agreement with eachother. It had nothing to do with support but with a general feeling that if you disagree you are insensitive. I am glad to see that we are beyond that stage, hopefully. If we are honest, I would say that the regular posters here have come a long way in their beliefs and attitudes. One reason for this, in my opinion, is because when people write thoughts down and receive feed back in a constructive fashion, they begin to feel more comfortable with who they are and in what they believe. People progress through dialoging with others. But we also have to keep in mind that new members who are just starting out might need a different kind of post...more supportive and more nourishing in tone and in word.
And so what went wrong with Ryan's thread? Inexperience. If the homosexuality and the church discussion would happen now, I am sure that it would be handled differently.
Free thinker would certainly have his hands full if we were receiving as many posts as FAIR. He would be a nutter in no time...it is a full time job over there..and you get all types of people with their own agendas. Well anyway this is my take on it all... :)

[silverfox]

It is obvious that something went wrong with the church and homosexuality discussion and its closure. I think that Ryan is still hurt about it and bigeddy is still alittle miffed. And then there were members who enjoyed the thread and the posts because it was a learning experience and allowed an individual to come out of a comfort zone. And so there was a problem with its closure. But what was that problem? My take on it is one of inexperience. The forum was basically in its infant stage and the moderators were afraid of members becoming hurt by certain posts. Everyone was rather sensitive at that time. Most posters were into the stage thing and the moderators felt that the sight was meant for recovery and stages of recovery. But still there was some
inexperience involved from the posters and moderators involved but this would be completely natural because it was all such a new thing. I think that we can learn much from the FAIR boards in how to handle wayward posts. I am not in favor of sending a private message to wayword posters because it is too personal---a private one on one. But a public message from the moderator seems more humane and less threatening because it is public and indirect. And there should be at least three public warnings to the individual before he or she is unplugged. The main threat to a good dialogue is the emotional responses where people no longer respond with reason and reflection but from an emotional reaction which is always defensive and passive aggressive. It becomes a shouting match.
Of course people have agendas.Look at our friend helemon when he posted at FAIR. His post name immediately alerted the moderators to be on his trail. And he was warned about his posts. And helemon survived the 'shock'.
But I also think that difference of opinion is a good thing for the forum. It allows people to grow in mind and in soul. We develop through a shared conversation of respect, tolerance and difference. Before I joined this forum I had the feeling that two many posters were patting each other on the back in agreement with eachother. It had nothing to do with support but with a general feeling that if you disagree you are insensitive. I am glad to see that we are beyond that stage, hopefully. If we are honest, I would say that the regular posters here have come a long way in their beliefs and attitudes. One reason for this, in my opinion, is because when people write thoughts down and receive feed back in a constructive fashion, they begin to feel more comfortable with who they are and in what they believe. People progress through dialoging with others. But we also have to keep in mind that new members who are just starting out might need a different kind of post...more supportive and more nourishing in tone and in word.
And so what went wrong with Ryan's thread? Inexperience. If the homosexuality and the church discussion would happen now, I am sure that it would be handled differently.
Free thinker would certainly have his hands full if we were receiving as many posts as FAIR. He would be a nutter in no time...it is a full time job over there..and you get all types of people with their own agendas. Well anyway this is my take on it all... :)

There are no issues with differences of opinions.

The issue was with links that were posted by this user that were CLEARLY AND COMPLETELY against forum policy via PRIVATE MESSAGING. In most cases it is the member going against forum policy that chooses to publicize the differences.

The user was warned to no avail. The links were removed and when the user tried to continue posting them the thread was closed.

Again, I have invited any member to continue the convesation in a new thread. If it is that important to continue discussion please please please someone start a new thread about it. Many have stated they wished it hadn't closed. I have said please start a new thread. You can copy and paste something from the closed thread to begin your conversation. Why won't anyone take me up on the invitation?

There are no issues with discussing homosexuality. We are not being overly sensitive to our gay members. Believe me, it's nothing they haven't heard before and they handle more than any straight members can. They've seen it all before.

So let me say it loud and clear yet one more time

The thread was closed to members going against forum policy.

And again one more time just for $hits and giggles:

If any member feels they would like to continue the discussion please feel free to start a new thread. Forum policies still apply.

Sorry if I sound a little irritated but I have beat this issue to death. I understand you were not around at the time this all went down, why me. You should also know many of us have been involved with other forums and have also moderated other forums. My intention is to avoid some of the ugliness experienced on other forums when things get out of hand.

I hope all can focus on the real reason the thread was closed and why some users have been banned.

Feel free to PM me if you would like more information or send me your thoughts.

:)