Percentage who still feel angry

[Born Free]

This thread is to try to get some idea of what percentage of people are at what stage of resolution of anger at their Mo experience. We might also explore what assisted resolution, and whether you believe one should "Get over it and move on", leaving Moism to continue unabated.

[Born Free]

Paul & Gang,

I frequently admire where you seem to be at along the path of resolution.

There are times when I review my comments/contribution and the competitive/judging part of me compares that with your response, and I find myself having an internal dialogue along the lines:

"I admire where Paul appears to be at. I would like to be there. But I am not there yet. It that just a matter of time? Or do I harbour and fester anger? Is he smarter than me? Am I making this harder than I need to? On the reverse side, is refusing anger really suppressing how I think and feel in an unhealthy way?"

And I rabbit on ad nauseum (spelling?).

How do others process and progress this one (not Paul-envy, you fool; the anger thunggggggggg)?

I know part of this is my judgementalism, and a big chunk is anger at myself for not having had the smarts to be decisive and walk from Mormonism years ago, saving lots of time.

Daryl

PS: Paul this is not a piss-take! :o I am being very open about where I am at on this important issue.

[miss taken]

Looking back I can honestly, honestly say that I didn't feel anger.

I felt anger on occassion at people in the church who were bigotted, fanatical, used the church as a tool of superiority, judging without love, those things made me angry, but they had NOTHING to do with why I left the church.

I think I chose to join the church, I only have myself to blame, and I would be angry at myself if anything. But I am not so I can't vote, because anger just wasn't a factor

Disappointment, now that is another story!!!!
mary

[silverfox]

I only become angry now when I hear stories of other's experiences coming out of the church. Threats of divorce, depression, lonliness. Or stories of sexual abuse the church neglected or enabled, discriminations, etc.

That anger will NEVER go away. And it shouldn't, IMO. For me the anger is productive. It enables me to continue to realize how important support is, how important it is to educate my children and my grandchildren, to make them aware, etc, etc. To provide information so they can make balanced choices.

So it's difficult for me to vote because I am not ALWAYS angry. I can't vote that I am NOT angry.

I do remember well my anger stage. I was nearly consumed with it. I would say it lasted a few months.

[peter_mary]

For me, the anger is mostly resolved, but not entirely. Where it manifests itself the most in my own life is the times when I feel trapped by the pressure of the culture in the community in which we live. This is most significant when I think of the degree to which I have to suppress myself because of the damage it could do to the reputation of my wife's business. There are many Post-Mos who live in the heart of Zion whose livelihood is dependent on the Mormons in the area continuing to support their business. If I am open, truly open, I run the risk of creating what would amount to a scandal, and that is bad for business. And that can spin me up at times.

My wife and I had a long conversation this weekend (in Provo!) about where we have been on this journey, and how we would like to proceed. One of the things we talked about is the significant difference between the institution of the Church and individual Church members. Having been one of those "individual Church members" for much of my life, I feel an enormous amount of compassion for them as people. I believe that even the most arrogant of them is in all liklihood trying to live their religion the way they believe they are expected to, in the only way they know how. The pressure from God, or the Church, or the Priesthood, or family can be so great on the person that they really don't have the choice to be any other way. I say that, because I don't think you really and truly have a choice if you don't realize there are reasonable choices to make.

A faithful member of the Church does not know that they can be joyful, family oriented, wholesome and secure in their place in the universe without the limits the Church places on them. They only know what they know, and that's not their fault. So I try (and often fail) to consider the limits of their sight when I speak about their world.

See, I think we have a fortunate circumstance as a people who have been deeply Mormon and now are not. It is like a person who has lived in a completely different country for many years and really learned the language, culture, customs and beliefs of that country. When they come home, they are capable of navigating in two different worlds.

But those who have never left home, for whatever reason, are limited in their ability to navigate the world. They can only get around in their native land, where they speak their native tongue.

As Post Mormons, we have been fortunate enough to live completely in two different worlds; the Mormon world and the rest of the world. Our Mormon neighbors have not. No place is this more painfully obvious than Provo, Utah! So to me, the responsibility to act charitably rests mostly with me...because I, by virtue of my present circumstances and not by virtue of any greater intelligence, education or wisdom, have been where they are, but they have not been where I am. I can empathize fully with them, but they do not yet posses the experience to empathize with me. Thus the responsibility and the opportunity to act with greater compassion rest with me.

When it comes to the institution of the Church, I feel a certain degree of responsibility to be a critic, because I believe that provides a degree of accountability that helps keep them in check. If the Church had no critics, then I believe it would be out of control. In the same way that a free media is necessary to keep a government honest (or as honest as possible!), critics of the Church are necessary to keep the Church honest. That's a role I can play without anger, but rather with a sense of responsibility for creating social change. (My friends on this board know that sometimes I succeed, and sometimes I fail...but I try!)

In the end, I believe that my experience as a Mormon, and then the experience of coming out of Mormonism, was the single most profound learning opportunity I've ever had. I view it is a teaching that informs my life. If I remain in my anger, then I am looking back and dwelling on that which can't be undone. I can't get my tithing back, I can't get back all those years spent wearing garments, and I can't get back the years I wasted distancing myself from my non-member family. But if I can learn from the experience, and then look forward with compassion for the people and a sense of responsibility for keeping the institution honest, then I find that my life in relation to the Church is not only tolerable, but in fact peaceful.

Sometimes I really am that skillful, and sometimes I'm not. My goal is to always be that skillful...

Paul

[elder_nomo]

i thought my anger was completely over, but reading some of the posts here and other links sometimes gets my blood boiling. when i re-read my own posts, i can feel a little heat. i guess there's some leftover, pent up anger that still needs to come out.
i agree with silverfox, that some anger should be kept.

[Born Free]

For me, the anger is mostly resolved, but not entirely.

Sometimes I really am that skillful, and sometimes I'm not. My goal is to always be that skillful...

Paul
Paul,
I really appreciate that depth of reply. I like your approach and stand to benefit from exposure to it.

Thanks greatly,
Daryl

[silverfox]

As Post Mormons, we have been fortunate enough to live completely in two different worlds; the Mormon world and the rest of the world. Our Mormon neighbors have not. No place is this more painfully obvious than Provo, Utah! So to me, the responsibility to act charitably rests mostly with me...because I, by virtue of my present circumstances and not by virtue of any greater intelligence, education or wisdom, have been where they are, but they have not been where I am. I can empathize fully with them, but they do not yet posses the experience to empathize with me. Thus the responsibility and the opportunity to act with greater compassion rest with me.

When it comes to the institution of the Church, I feel a certain degree of responsibility to be a critic, because I believe that provides a degree of accountability that helps keep them in check. If the Church had no critics, then I believe it would be out of control. In the same way that a free media is necessary to keep a government honest (or as honest as possible!), critics of the Church are necessary to keep the Church honest. That's a role I can play without anger, but rather with a sense of responsibility for creating social change. (My friends on this board know that sometimes I succeed, and sometimes I fail...but I try!)

In the end, I believe that my experience as a Mormon, and then the experience of coming out of Mormonism, was the single most profound learning opportunity I've ever had. I view it is a teaching that informs my life. If I remain in my anger, then I am looking back and dwelling on that which can't be undone. I can't get my tithing back, I can't get back all those years spent wearing garments, and I can't get back the years I wasted distancing myself from my non-member family. But if I can learn from the experience, and then look forward with compassion for the people and a sense of responsibility for keeping the institution honest, then I find that my life in relation to the Church is not only tolerable, but in fact peaceful.

Sometimes I really am that skillful, and sometimes I'm not. My goal is to always be that skillful...

Paul

I love this. It makes sense.

For me the anger is not so much directed toward the past but that the church STILL wants control. And it is a domino effect to anyone living in a Mo community. I continually tell myself I need to get the hell out of Utard. It drives me C R A Z Y :Crazy: having the church
's influence touch so much here....politics, education (discriminating Mo teachers, principals...oh, yeah there are alot), business decisions, hiring, workplace, etc, etc, etc. Little is left untouched.

I used to be a management position with a locally based company and I was SHOCKED at the hiring process. Our "big" boss (yeah the one that is in prison now for molesting boys for years while he was bishop) was a bishop and would always "encourage" us to hire members. He would bring in his own ward/stake members and we were forced to hire them. We complained to HR but to no avail. He got away with soooo much.

I hired a single mom who was on welfare....a single mom and I nearly lost my job over this. She was a very hard worker but he judged her. He transferred her to another department that paid less and also had less potential of promotion.

These scenarios happen daily here. This makes me angry. It makes me angry that members get away with so much in the name of their church. Hell, they don't even try to use God that much, it's all in the name of the CHURCH.

I will print off your post, Paul, and hopefully it will encourage me to not allow so much anger from things I witness these days. I don't see the chance of moving away as my family roots are deep here with my kids and grandkids so I best be finding a way to deal with it.

I should note that no one witnesses my anger but hubby and even he, who can still at times be borderline into going back to the church, doesn't understand. So maybe it's the whole lack of understanding that also fuels my anger. I feel alone in it in "real life".

[papa]

My whole family, beloved spouse, 10 kids, 6 gkids--
all tbm's.

I am the patriarch, and pomo. Am I angry? Yes, quite a bit angry. I worked hard all my adult life to build a loving family, and now they all think I am an apostate, and not worthy to stand.

This too shall pass--I hope. :Crazy:

[peter_mary]

My whole family, beloved spouse, 10 kids, 6 gkids--
all tbm's.

I am the patriarch, and pomo. Am I angry? Yes, quite a bit angry. I worked hard all my adult life to build a loving family, and now they all think I am an apostate, and not worthy to stand.

This too shall pass--I hope. :Crazy:

See, this is the hardest part, in my opinion. The grieving is hard, the redefining is hard, but the rejection by our families...that kills. When you've only walked one road, you are really only qualified to talk about that single road. When you have walked two or more, you have the ability to talk about all the other journeys, but those who only share the one with you can't even hear what you have to say about your other journeys. :(

I suppose we spend the rest of our lives hoping someone understands us...welcome, papa, to PostMormon.org...

Peter_Mary

[david]

Paul, I truly appreciate your post--you're brilliant! I can say that it shed light on some of my own struggles/questions, so thanks.

I've been out of the morg for almost 25 years and thankfully, I am over the anger. This is saying a lot, as I was filled with something close to rage for several years after I left.

In reading your post it occurred to me that living in or out of the corridor can make a huge difference in how one is able to process the anger. I never lived in the corridor (except for a year at BYU) but most of my extended family does and so I'm fairly familiar with that world.

My "approach" to leaving mormonism was to cut off all possible ties. This was pretty easy as I was/am way out of the corridor. The advantage was that the traumatic experience of mormonism soon faded to a blur, and other wonderful experiences gradually took its place. But the catch is that my parents and siblings are mostly still TBM; thus I get a dose of mormonism on a fairly regular basis. Here's the thing: I find my latent anger surfaces as I spend time with them. It's like visiting the battleground after the war. Those bad memories get stirred up.

Here's my observation: what I thought was my victory over anger may, just may, be instead a certain apathy. It's easy to mechanically sustain apathy by keeping the church at more than arm's length. (Until I found this site, I rarely even thought about the church.) Apathy may not be the most healthy approach to dealing with anger, but I'll take what I can get!

Taking a case like yours, the apathy approach seems like a no-can-do. You're surrounded by the culture and rely on it to some extent in your business dealings etc. I believe I would not survive psychically in such an environment. Thus I take my hat off to you; your post shows that you are very much in control. You're the man!