Departing Moism - Stage 1 – Blissful Ignorance [Archive]

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Born Free

25th March 2005, 05:13 PM

silverfox

25th March 2005, 06:50 PM

The following is a post by Miss Taken that was in response to the Stage 1 PREP ONLY thread. Now that the final Stage 1 thread has been created I have copied her post to this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sturgdw
1. What processes did Mo use to create Blissful Ignorance either when people join, or within member-children?

Simple one. I was just never taught most of the 'iffier' aspects of 1)history 2)docrtine. You can glimpse parts of it studying the bom and d&c in various sections, but the discussions certainly do not cover anything suspect.
First big niggle came when Alan Whicker was interviewing S Kimball and asked why a carpenter wouldn't be a prophet in the LDS church, and Kimball's answer reflected the idea that the church was a business corporation, that took business leaders to lead it. I didn't like that. I was always told 'milk before meat' 'that is not essential to your eternal salvation' 'leave deep doctrine alone' But....of course all the sunday school, institute, seminary courses portray the church as perfect as well as ALL the leadership. There is just no inkling of grey.

2. Was/were there a part/s of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? (This question is about seeing what may have predisposed us to gullibility at a historical point in time)

I was young. 14. I liked a lot of the young people, who mostly were certainly trying to live good standards. I dated a guy for quite a while whom I really liked. At the time, those things were more important to me. It wasn't important to me, on many occassions whether the church was false or not, because I was having fun.

3. What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once we were on board?

As above in no 1. Discouragement from questioning, teaching every aspect of the church as whiter than white.

4. Some way of comparing the level of personal development we were at when entering stage one.

?

5. How did the doctrines of moism fulfill the needs we had at the level we were at?

Depends which doctrines were emphasised, the church is like most churches in that it uses only the scriptures it wants to to emphasise the doctrines it wants to

I wanted a strong family - the church wants that
I wanted to live good ethics - the church wants that
I wanted to be around some like minded people - the church provided that (in the most part)
I believed deeply in Jesus, the church came to emphasise that

6. What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced us we had the "truth".

I think that (I can only hypothesise on this) God gives us good feelings if something is right for us. It may be instinct (for those die hard atheists out there). One also gets a feeling of forboding (not neccessarily the right word but the best I could come up with) for instance if one is to make a very impactful decision. (I KNEW when my son was concieved - and I do mean KNEW).
On occassions I have walked very closely with God, the death of my father was another occassion, when the veil seemed very thin. (to quote an LDS term!). I like things to be neat and tidy, and the church certainly endeavours to tie up everything in a neat and tidy ball. I felt good about that. I also feel that sometimes particularly at testimony meetings I was 1) expected to bear testimony - particularly after returning from a mission - so I did what I felt was expected of me within that social construct 2) was caught up in the emotionality of it all (with all that deep feeling and crying and stuff).

Any more angles on this before we run it up the flag pole?

I may have answered this too early, can you cut and paste it to another thread, cause I can't be bothered to type it all out again!!!!!!!
Mary

Born Free

25th March 2005, 09:36 PM

What age did you join?

I was about 7 years old when my mother joined, followed about 3 years later by my father after a near fatal accident.

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured? Had you experienced a major loss or destabilizing event prior to joining?

I was a child, not yet at that age that the law believes children have a developed sense of right and wrong. My mother on the other hand, had had a recent miscarriage, and had come from a broken family background. She was not well educated or read, and had inherited a bucket load of issues around sex from her single mother. My father was struck over teh heart whilst crank starting a truck engine, and was very lucky to survive the blow. He used to claim that he had earlier received an answer to prayer, but had ignored that until this event. So in both cases, it could be argued my parent's got Religion as an answer to personal trauma.

What processes do you now believe Moism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?

As a child, I was in no position to make decisions. At that point I followed my parent's directives largely. I look back now, and even my mother (still alive and inactive) believes the Church did the "once over lightly", not offering anything like its unlaundered reality.

In retrospect were there a parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life”?

I am sure that given the choice between mixing and baking my own Philosophy of Life and the Fast Food version offered by Moism, the quicky version was seductive, if unhealthy, and dangerous to healthy brain cells and independence muscles.

How did the doctrines of Moism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?

I now believe that if Moism has a fit (all the lies and laundering removed), it is probably about the early teenage years. The emphasis on discipline, and simplistic morality is probably compatible with that level of development.

What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?

It encouraged narrow reading and keeping busy, busy, busy.

It created a black/white, good/bad model the glue for which was liberal applications of Fear, whilst at the same time talking incessantly of Love.

It created a sense of "You are now part of the blessed and select In Group, and Satan is now doubling his efforts to get you. Caution, fear, follow the Iron Rod" etc., etc.. the unconscious superiour/inferiour mind game!

It encouraged limited contact with non-members and other philosophies of life.

It promoted an elitist view, setting itself at the pinnacle of human development.

It promoted an atmosphere where appearing to, was more valued than being. Possessing teh right answer, more important than having any deep and meaningful understanding of what it really meant on the lived plane.

It actively laundered its history, and even gagged its own liberal wing on an ongoing basis.
What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth”?

Sorry, but I missed the bliss. I always felt guilty that I was blissless, but figured it was something I did wrong. (ie blame myself, rather than work out that Bliss was talked about or imagined a lot more than it ws happening). I later started to figure that the world seemed to have 3 groups on the Bliss Scale:

The nutters, who Christ, God and the toilet brush spoke to regularly
Those whose sanity and credibility I could not fault, who had "extra-ordinary" experiences, and
The group who I seemed to hold membership in, where FA happened.

Partly as a result, I always was sus on the whole idea of "We, God's Chosen". It never felt right to me. This just didn't feel like an objective and fair God.

free thinker

26th March 2005, 12:05 AM

Stage 1 of the departing model is Blissful Ignorance - involves believing the Church offered a comprehensive, trustworthy solution to your needs, and that the Church had declared all under Due Diligence.

We may have been encouraged to believe that not only is it sufficient to all our needs, but that other forces are actively trying to lead us away.

DIALECTIC: We see all opposition as evil, sin, "the adversary" tempting people to stray from the truth.
The whole Draft Model thus far is at http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/...hp?t=288&page=2

Preceding threads posted are:
Stage 2 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=317
Stage 3 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=322
Stage 4 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=324
Stage 5 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=334
Stage 6 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?p=3843#post3843

Ed and I are keen to see who would be interested to flesh out our (all our) understanding of the process of leaving, so propose to initiate a series of threads to elicit more information on each stage.

Please Copy & Paste (highlight, [Control]/”C”) the following questions, open a Post Reply, then [Control] “V” to paste them, then insert your response against each question.

What age did you join?

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured? Had you experienced a major loss or destabilizing event prior to joining?

What processes do you now believe Moism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?

In retrospect were there a parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life”?

How did the doctrines of Moism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?

What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?

What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth”?
We are looking to compare responses to this question to see what patterns (similarities/differences) emerge, so please cut and paste each of the questions, followed by your response/s, so that everyones’ responses remain in the same sequence.

Daryl

PS: Here are other threads varyingly related to this stage:

Mein Kampf & Sunstone - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=280
Ignorance of Masonic link - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=256
Ignorance of Creationism vs Evolution - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=205
Mo smartest & bestest - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=98

What age did you join?

I was sixteen at the time

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured? Had you experienced a major loss or destabilizing event prior to joining?

I was actually a relatively thoughtful person even at sixteen. My life was not chaotic, but I came from a dysfunctional family. I had separated myself from friends because they were going down the drug road and I knew I didn't want to go there!

What processes do you now believe Moism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?

The idea of having lived in a pre-mortal existence was very interesting and comforting to me. Also I percieved the BofM as a bit of a miracle. It was so touching to read.

In retrospect were there a parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life”?

Yes. I really needed the answers I was given. They gave me a great deal of comfort.

How did the doctrines of Moism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?

The church seemed to have definitive answers that noone else had

What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?

If anything came along that made me question, I told myself that all these good intelligent people aroung me must know about these things, and must have answered theme satisfactorily, and therefore I did not press the issues.

What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth”?

I had some deeply spiritual experiences. I did experience the burning etc. I think I would have had them at any church service though, as I seem to pick up on those type things. People have described me as a spiritual person.

Born Free

27th March 2005, 07:06 PM

If you want a great example of the means Mo uses to keep good little Mos locked into this stage, go and check out this thread recently posted by Silverfox.

http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?p=3881#post3881

Daryl

peter_mary

28th March 2005, 01:27 PM

What age did you join?

Age 19.

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured? Had you experienced a major loss or destabilizing event prior to joining?

I was a freshman in college, living 600 miles from home for the first time, trying to understand who I was, what I wanted from life, and where I was going. And I was in love with a Mormon girl. My life was absolutely in that mildly chaotic time when possibilities flourish, and nothing is guaranteed.

What processes do you now believe Moism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?

This is kind of interesting, because for me, the Church provided an opportunity, but I provided the context which was ripe for acceptance. Because I was in love and wanted to marry, I also knew intuitively that I had to gain a testimony in order to justify joining, which was a pre-requisite for marrying. I NEEDED a testimony, so the rest was easy.

The kinds of things that lulled me into a state of complacency with regard to the Church included most significantly their arguments that were quasi-scientific. For example, a film the missionaries showed me TWICE was "Ancient America Speaks," in which they go through the "wealth" of evidence for the Book of Mormon that is found in Meso-American archeology. Being completely unfamiliar with "the rest of the story," their story seemed so plausible. So I bit it.

In addition, I learned early on that my emotional reactions to emotional events were "the spirit," and thus I was completely unable to recognize, as dogzilla said in a different post, that the still small voice was MY still small voice, giving rise to the inner desires and beliefs of my own will. I see now that I was simply giving myself some quiet space to connect with my inner ego/consciousness, but that was ALL it was...there was no mystical "other" whispering in my ear or igniting my bosom. Except there was that one time with my brother and the kerosene... :D

In retrospect were there parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life”?

It was very satisfying knowing that I, unlike MOST people in the world, had aligned myself with God's will, His Gospel, and His one true Church. It didn't even MATTER what I thought, the simple fact of the matter was, this is the way God made it, baby, so like it or not, here it is. Take it and be saved, or reject it and be damned. It's a lot of work to be responsible for your own choices and actions, and I think I was happy for a time to let the Church take over that responsibility for me.

How did the doctrines of Moism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?

They felt complete. All the answers seemed to be contained within the gospel. Of course, when you only know how to SEE one kind of answer, that comes as no surprise now, but at the time it seemed amazing.

It's hard not to let the fact that you are "special" and part of the "chosen generation" go straight to your head. I was pretty smug, believing that if everyone else would just listen to me, and understand what I understood, then they'd all be a lot happier, the world be a better place, forever and ever amen, and amen. That elitism was so powerful that I allowed it to influence me away from my non-member family, and gravitate toward my member in-laws.

What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?

Leadership positions and teaching opportunities FEEL like these very autonimous activities that depend on your personal knowledge, righteousness and relationship with God. It's heady stuff. The reality, of course, is that we are puppets of the culture, but it feels so important.

There was also this mantra that, "The Gospel is simple. Don't make it complicated." I learned to believe that, and it kept me from considering that there was even any value in the "mysteries" and the unknown in the Church, let alone considering actually studying any of it. I was told that the gospel was complete, and anything that didn't seem to fit was a function of my limited capacity to understand, not the Gospel's limited capacity to include. So when it came to real conundrums, such as evolution and the existence of evil, I just shrugged my shoulders and repeated the mantra. "It's all so simple. Don't make it more complicated than it is. It'll all make sense in the hereafter."

What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth”?

For me, I am absolutely 100% without a shadow of a doubt convinced that my assurance in the Church was purely psychological. I wanted it to be true, and so I made sure that it was. For the longest time, I wouldn't allow a thought to enter in that would challenge anything, and anything that did sneak in, I just squashed before it ever got off the ground. I had to stumble accidentally and unawares into "new paradigm" territory, through a backdoor in the basement of the Church, and I did that over the course of many years. As you may recall from other posts, I was already questioning the existence of GOD before I began to question the legitimacy of the Church. How twisted is THAT? That bliss, that assurance, all came from the inner desires of me. Once I recognized that, and called bull-shit on it, the bliss fell away. I suppose you could argue that in fact the reverse has happened, and that I WAS haveing an authentic experience, but now the inner desires of my heart are squelching the very plain truths that my heart once understood, thus my psychology is leading me astray NOW rather than then...but I don't feel that way.

But I could be wrong, too...

Peter_Mary

flotsam

4th April 2005, 03:05 AM

What age did you join?
Born in the covenant

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured? Had you experienced a major loss or destabilizing event prior to joining?

Had an incredibly stable childhood, and have the devotion of my parents to thank for it. Most destabilizing even was when a friend moved away. Boring, boring boring.

What processes do you now believe Moism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?

I'd have a hard time calling this blissful ignorance. I'd call it deep immersion in a strong culture. It looks much the same to me as what Israel created under Moses', Joshua's and Ezra's influence. "We are right, the world is wrong, we must not be sullied by the world."

Ignorance, it seems to me is a passive acceptance of filtered information. It's like a person sitting in front of a television. He or she feels informed by the news, but nevertheless, never gets up off the couch. That's ignorance to me. However, the Mormonism I grew up with wasn't an ignorant, passive, experience. It was imperative that you learn the doctrine, gain a testimony of it and carry it to other people. There was a great deal to be done and one could measure one's progress. You didn't sit on the couch; you sat on other people's couches to share the gospel. This isn't ignorance; this is dedication to a set of ideals.

But to answer the question: Mormonism uses a unified field theory to unite its flock, much as Israel under Ezra's influence. They created a unified identity based on a grand myth that explained the universe. One could see one's place in the universe, and it was a stable one, as long as you were obedient.

Interestingly, I've been reading a lot of Alaska Native spirituality and culture lately, especially that from pre-contact days, and have found much the same doctrine for them. They have a very unified worldview. It's quite strong, with a place for everything and everything in its place. As we can see, their perspective worked. They survived on the Tundra for 10,000 years or more. However, they differ from the Judeo Christian story in one very important way. In our mythology humans are the crowning creation, with dominion over the earth. For the Alaska Natives, humans are the most recent creation. So, being the youngest, we need to listen to the older creations to gain wisdom. So instead of being born to maintain their place at the top, Alaska Natives were constantly in an open, listening state. So, though they had a unified worldview, it was open to "modern revelation" you might call it.

Mormonism is much more interested in spreading itself, than in learning from the earth. That's the major drawback to me. I realize that Joseph Smith said we should be circumscribing truth into one great whole. I love that sentiment. If only it happened more often in the Church. I think we spend more time maintaining programs than seeking truth.

In retrospect were there a parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life”?

Yes. I was happy in a way. The world was predictable. "I the Lord am bound when you do what I say. When you do not what I say, you have no promise." If one can fit into that system it's an incredibly secure place. And the interesting thing about it was, there were always higher things to be learned. You could gain more knowledge about the way things actually were. More details to add to the Plan of Salvation. Mormonism has quite a compelling mythology, one that can be interpreted in amazingly diverse ways. However, like early Christianity, Mormonism figured out early on figured out that differing interpretations of the mythology was bad for political unification. And they were right. When people are more interested in discussing the universe rather than carrying out mandates that require massive personpower, fewer large things get done. That's why we have orthodoxy, to get everyone together under an umbrella so we can be politically effective.

There's a place for that, I think.

And again, I'd call myself focused, not blissfully ignorant. No. It's difficult for me to envision a blissful life in Mormonism. Hell is too close on one's heels.

How did the doctrines of Moism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?

What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?

Family. Tradition. The fear of hell.

Family and Mormonism are essentially one and the same for my family. The identity of the family is completely bound up in it. Therefore, my younger brother isn't going to the Celestial Kingdom, he's committed too many sins. I remain a shady character, prayed for by my mother. I have broken no major commandments. But my belief ... it looks nothing like the orthodoxy. If you ask me a gospel question, I'll question the premise. I love my family, but Mormonism still defines us, and at least two of us are wayward children, and therefore unable to partake of the tree of life.

Tradition. This is something I struggle with. Tradition keeps us in touch with a deep rhythm, a sort of racial memory. It gives us a premise that we can take for granted. Something that can identify us all as one from time to time. However, then we get to, "If you are not one, you are not mine." So now that I question, am I no longer one? I love Levi Petersen's essay "Christian by Yearning." That describes me well. I yearn for something. I can't tell what it is. But it requires rigorous questioning of pretty much everything. It seems once we have a name for God and it resonates, we have to immediately let it go. If you build a raft to cross a river, why carry it with you after crossing? But I still find a goodness in the rhythm, in the deep memory. But how do I connect with both myself and the memory without getting sucked into the institution?

Fear of hell. This has gnawed at me for my entire life. I am imperfect and could only understand a "just God." Why this was I don't know. Perhaps I was a justice driven kid. I was the oldest, after all. I had nightmares about going to hell. And I tried so hard to be good. But it didn't work. I was bad. I was also a coward. Still am. Maybe that's why I question, to numb myself to that fear. To convince myself that it isn't really waiting for me.

To the people who tell me God's church is all about love, I say, bullpoopy. It's more about keeping us from bumping into each other as much as possible. It's about getting us into the slots and performing the right functions. If we were so love oriented, wouldn't we spend more time playing with our children, loving our spouses, and celebrating with our friends than having meetings?

What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth”?

A complex mixture of the three elements above. Fear was a huge element. The world was wicked, and Satan was after me. I must always be vigilant, always maintaining the walls, ever defending the faith. What the world touches, the world sullies. No two ways about it. What was it Benson said? "What filth passes through is never the same again."

However, I had profound experiences while a TBM. I can't deny them. Healings. Touches of divinity. Unity with my family and with others. I mean, I still take my patriarchal lesson pretty literally. It says I'm going to be healthy my whole life until my life's mission is complete. So far it's been true. And I put my eggs in that basket. I don't buy insurance for myself nearly as much as I buy it for the rest of my family. I also have always paid my tithing, and dadgumit, I have never been without the essentials of life.

The thing that has changed, though, is my interpretation of these things. Does there only have to be one interpretation of these events and states? I don't think so anymore. But Mormonism DOES think so. Mormonism wants a corner on the mysteries of the universe. It wants free license to commit the sin Neil Postman calls reification, where we take what is metaphorical and turn it concrete.

For example. I think there is something to tithing. My reading into Native American culture has shown me alternate versions of tithing. They give back to the gods, or to each other, or to the wilderness. Because the gods, the wilderness and their neighbors give to them. They believe there is a cycle, and they must keep it going. And you know, they survived. So my question right now (it could change) isn't should I pay tithing, but what is it I'm trying to say to the universe through the way I use my money? This is a much bigger question. And one that is more helpful to me.

To me, Mormonism says, stay next to the Tree of Life, don't wander. Because, out there, things are evil." But I'm starting to say, "Can't the Tree of Life be a part of the larger landscape? Aren't the swamps, the rivers and the mountains every bit as much a part of the ecosystem as the tree?" I want truth to be big and just keep getting bigger.

So Mormonism can be true in my book. But I think it's just a blip on the radar, to use a popular Mormon catchphrase. However, I know that’s a heresy. Which bothers me.

free thinker

4th April 2005, 11:20 PM

So Mormonism can be true in my book. But I think it's just a blip on the radar, to use a popular Mormon catchphrase. However, I know that’s a heresy. Which bothers me.

Here are some other heretics in whose company I would not mind being!!

Galileo Galilee, Copernicus, Socrates, Plato!!

Not a bad list eh?

Let that heretic flag fly man!!

Free Thinker

bigeddy

10th April 2005, 09:39 AM

What age did you join?
I was born and raised in an LDS family. My parents were very active from the time I was tiny. The issue of "joining" is interesting for me and I have decided to aver that I "joined" when I was 19. That is when I made a conscious choice to be a part of it all. The "blissful" part of the stage began to apply then. Before that I was a rebellious teen and had no intention of remaining a momoboy. I had a Catholic girlfriend I intended to marry and had no use for the church. Through the ages between 17 and 19 I began to get very tired of fighting everything and always being on the outside. When I did break up with the Catholic girl and started dating a momogirl I was suddenly popular with all my extended family and was no longer a "stranger and foreigner" to my own family. This was wonderful to me. I came back into it all so I could rest (emotionally, psychologically and socially) from being an outcast and the black sheep of the family. For the same reason, to be accepted and honored, and also because I was firmly in the polarized stage of development and needed the black/white structure of the church, I became a seminary teacher and very active in moism. I was an Elder's Quorum Pres. at age 23, a Stake High Counselor at age 25 and counselor to a bishop at age 26. Talk about power issues. This was truly "blissful" to one who had been an outcast for so many years.

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured? Had you experienced a major loss or destabilizing event prior to joining?

I was in a stage where I needed the polarized thinking prevelant in moism. I needed the clear black/white doctrines and the "Us/them" approach of a system such as moism that is clearly at a lower stage of evolution. My life had been chaotic because of my teenage rebellion, WOW violations, sexual acting out and etc. All of these were directly counter to my family and my community. Just after graduation from High School my family moved to a new house in a different part of Ogden. There, in the new ward, no one knew me or my patterns of violation of church standards. I had no "reputation" that made me a pariah. It was heaven to no longer be dismissed at every hand. So this became rather than a destabalizing event, a stabalizing event that allowed me to finally feel like I had worth.

What processes do you now believe Moism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?

I think that acceptance, respect and conditional love are the processes that allowed the blissful ignorance to bloom in my life. Here (in the new ward we entered) were people who actually liked me and as long as I acted as they wished, I was respected and allowed a place. It was only after years of reflection that I realized where my "testimony" actually came from. I was so glad to finally have a place in my family and community that I would have gained a testimony of cannabalism if it would have insured a continuation of the acceptance I felt.

In retrospect were there a parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life”?

There were huge parts of me that were happy to be so ignorant. THere were few niggles I could not easily dismiss (in fact I can think of none) so that I could stay in the "fold". Having the prepackaged solution was not as important as the fact that the prepackaged solution came wrapped in a community that accepted and loved me and gave me positions of leadership because I could sing the songs as well as anyone. At this time I was using the "good" parts of the momo community and I was learning and growing in accordance with the patterns I have since learned that seem to apply to all of us regardless of the brand of black/white structure we partake of.

How did the doctrines of Moism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?

I was enamored of the teachings of love, sacrifice and service. I loved the Sermon on the Mount, King Benjamin's speech and anything that talked of the divinity of human beings. I worked hard to live these things and felt the reward that, I believe, naturally follows from loving and serving people. This reward will follow regardless of the community, doctrine or the particulary type handshakes one uses. I also found fulfillment of power needs as I was immediatly in positions of respect and leadership.

What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?

Conditional love. I continued to be loved and respected only if I conformed. I have since learned that this is a standard in lower levels of evolution. It was when I allowed myself to see the conditionality of the love that is taught as a major tenet of moism that I recognized that this community is truly in a lower stage of development--and I got out.

What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth”?

Now I clearly see and understand that the bliss, and the BITB (burning in the bosom--is this a new one?) experiences had nothing whatsoever to do with moism. I would have experienced them as a natural result of following the spirit within me that led me to believe in love, service and the divine nature of people. This would have happened regardless of whether I had been momo, baptistmo, hindumo, catholicmo or any mo. The notion that moism is true because people feel the bliss and the BITB is such a powerfully confusing factor. It would be similar to being able to convince people that because they liked to breath it proves that Jo was a prophet. This is nuts.

kreleia

25th April 2005, 04:59 PM

What age did you join?
Born and raised LDS. I was born in St. Louis, Missouri to Utah-native parents, who had only briefly left "Zion" so that my father could pursue his M.D. We returned to Utah when I was two years old.

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured?
Since I grew up in the church, I didn't know any differently. My blissful ignorance was perpetuated throughout my youth, teens and young-adulthood by growing up in a community that echoed everything the Church leaders said.

My life was very well structured, and my parents held a good education in very high esteem. Naturally, part of that education was Church teachings, scripture reading (my mom has to be given credit for dragging 4 very sleepy and grumpy kids out of bed on most mornings, so that we could half-snooze through a BoM chapter before getting ready for school.), prayer, and bearing one's testimony.

What processes do you now believe Mormonism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?
Complete and total immersion into a Mormon society. If it's all you've ever known, just trying to comprehend anything different is frightening.

In retrospect were there a parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life?"
Absolutely. When isn't it easier to be handed the answers? Finding the answers for yourself means having to dig into parts of your soul that you might not necessarily want to look at. Asking questions of yourself that you might not really want to know the answers to - "Am I really such a good person?" "Would I really risk my own life for someone else?" etc. Having someone who claims authority tell you that you ARE a good person, that you ARE chosen is extraordinarily comforting - for as long as you choose to believe them. Once you don't, it's hard to fathom that you believed they had authority at all.

How did the doctrines of Mormonism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?
My entire family - both immediate and in-laws - are Mormons. If nothing else, that was our common bond and our culture. Mormonism fulfilled the need to belong - if not socially, then at least religiously. The need to "know" that I would never lose my family, no matter what. It provided answers to carefully dictated concerns. It provided "freedom" and "relief" from the outside world and the natural human experience ("The natural man is an enemy to God"). It also provided a clear and "easy" path to salvation.

What processes did the Church use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?
Always the phrases "Listen to the Spirit," "Read the scriptures and pray for your answer," and "If it feels right, then it is." These are the phrases that gave me the illusion that I was thinking and deciding for myself. That I was being guided spiritually and "in my heart" by God to obey without question. That the Church, no matter how demanding or preposterous, is true.

What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth?"
I allowed myself to be caught up in the emotion and sincerity of others' testimonies. While I struggled with ever even forming a testimony - apart from the childhood recitations - I reveled in the experiences of others. I also allowed myself to believe that my own (sometimes very strong) emotional response to beautiful music, a well-done movie, my happiness at accomplishing "secular" goals was the Spirit telling me that I had done the right things. That I was witnessing or participating in something that God was somehow teaching through. After all, "If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things."

aether

25th April 2005, 10:57 PM

What age did you join?

Unofficially, when I was born, but officially when I was baptized at age eight. There was, of course, never any doubt as to what is tru and what is not true at that age - you believe what you're told.

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured? Had you experienced a major loss or destabilizing event prior to joining?

My childhood (and actually my entire life) was nearly perfect in every way. I cannot recall any sort of real sadness other than the simple things like the death of a grandparent or a friend moving away. I felt very loved at church, and could see nothing wrong with it. There was no reason to even think of doubting it. I heard stories of people who had fallen away from the church and I was convinced they were crazy.

What processes do you now believe Moism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?

It simply produced an atmosphere of love and joy. Going to primary was fun, we got to sing songs and learn about how much Jesus loved us. Even getting into the pre-teen stage when we were given all the scare-talks about sex: if that's all I heard, that was all I knew. Sex was something evil and scary. Although, that's when things started getting darker; that's when the fear and guilt began to come into play.

In retrospect were there a parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life”?

Of course. Everyone wants to know the truth, and if you think you have the truth there's no reason to upset the balance by forcing yourself to doubt and question and rebel.

How did the doctrines of Moism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?

Well since I was very young and simple-minded, all the simple doctrine appealed to me. We are natural sinners and those sins need to be punished, but Jesus loves us so he was punished for us. It's a great story of love and selflessness. Also, the less we sin, the less it hurts Christ.
It wasn't until I started getting into the deeper stuff of the doctrine that I started to question.

What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?

They discouraged true discussion. Interpretation of any kind was to be left to the apostles. Because, after all, discussion fosters new ideas, and new ideas lead to EVIL.

What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth”?

I'm not sure exactly. I know I was truly devoted. I knew I would die for the church, and I rejoiced in my own faith. All the little (usually hormonal) sins made me feel very very guilty until I went to church and took the sacrament, therefore guaranteeing my forgiveness. I look back on all that guilt now with a bit of irritation. It was like hitting myself in the head with a shovel - it felt good when I stopped. But it was nothing more than that self-blaming and self-forgiveness, or so I believe.

helemon

26th April 2005, 01:05 AM

What age did you join?

BUC

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured? Had you experienced a major loss or destabilizing event prior to joining?

Nope. Very stable, normal, boring childhood. :)

What processes do you now believe Moism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?

It was the dominant religion. Majority of friends were Mormon. Majority of activities I was involved in were church related. Did not have any other information available to me.

In retrospect were there parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life”?

I did not know I was ignorant. Only new one meaning of life. Didn't have reason to question it.

How did the doctrines of Moism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?

I don't think I had many deep needs or burning questions. Mormonism was what everyone believed and there was no reason that I was aware of to question it.

What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?

Nothing more than would be present in any other part of the world were there is one dominant religion. I don't recall feeling any overt pressure. I wasn't exposed to information that would make me question things. I trusted that my parents, leaders, and seminary teachers were being honest with me.

What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth”?

I think it was the logic of the mormon position that appealed to me. The OT had prophets, so we should have prophets. Christ had apostles, so we should have apostles. There were temples in the OT, so we have temples. Prophets in Israel wrote scriptures, so there should be others prophets who write scriptures. I bought into the whole apostacy arguement. I agreed with the position that given the atrocities of things like induldgences, and the Spanish Inquisition, the Catholic church could not be true, so of course God would want to restore his church. I bought into the rationale that we should do vicarious work for ancestors who died before the gospel was restored. I bought into the idea of forever families. And as a teenage male who was I to argue with the idea of polygamy? ;) My whole social framework was based on the church. What reason was there to question?

darkslider

28th April 2005, 05:46 PM

I thought it about time I responded to these questions.

What age did you join?

I was born into the Church

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured? Had you experienced a major loss or destabilizing event prior to joining?

From the get-go. I am a prime example of near-perfect brainwashing. My mother's life was rather chaotic when she joined (age 18) because she was about 6 months pregnant with me. She wanted to give me something better than she had.

What processes do you now believe Moism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?

It was a complete submersion into the culture. Primary, songs, illustrated scriptures, The Book of Mormon Comic, ect.

In retrospect were there a parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life”?

Indeed. It also gave me a sense of "one-upmanship". Knowing that I was one of the elect few that knew the whole truth.

How did the doctrines of Moism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?

I don't know. Honestly, having been raised from the beginning with it, I didn't know there was anything else to need. If that makes any sense.

What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?

It was the constant busy nature of it. I was always doing something. Splits, Home Teaching, Fast offerings, service projects, myriads of meetings, callings. . . it was the eternal endless nature of Working for My Salvation.

What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth”?

There honestly was no bliss. There was no spiritual influence. It had a lot to do with the fact that my home life was in the shitter. I was clinging to the Church to help me cope with my very TBM yet abusive mother.

gracie

24th May 2005, 01:59 PM

What age did you join?

I was "born in the covenant". My mothers family traces membership back to Joe smith and Co. My dad is a third generation faithful mormon.

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured? Had you experienced a major loss or destabilizing event prior to joining?

I was the oldest child, the next was born 13 months later, etc, til there were 5 of us. Our home life was chaotic in a lot of ways, anger, guilt, disorganized, a roller coaster. The neighborhood church was where all the community social life happened as well, so it was a relatively clean and orderly home away from home.

What processes do you now believe Moism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?

I remember from the time I was very young (cognitive) that the church was espoused as the only way to find peace in this life and obtain salvation in the life to come. I did not know anything else. My home life was chaotic and family life dysfunctional (although my parents were very active and believing). I craved order and peace my entire childhood, and looked forward to the time when living on my own, I could really live the gospel without distraction and find the peace I craved in my life.

In retrospect were there a parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life”?

Of course. I thought I had the formula to happiness. It was neat and tidy and promised great things. I was never exposed to anything different as a child so never questioned.

How did the doctrines of Moism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?

I did give me a dream, a hope, something to dream about in bed in night when I was growing up. I looked forward to the mo-dream. A returned missionary, temple marraige of bliss, beautiful, well-behaved happy children. It kept me out of "trouble" I guess while I strove for that goal. Of course I have a lot of regrets that I always lived for the future, instead of finding joy somehow in who I was and where I was at the time.

What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?

I felt a lot of guilt growing up. Even as a very young child (age 5-6) I remember feeling guilt that god had done so much for me, and I was as the dirt of the earth, an unprofitable servant. I tried to always do 110 percent to show gratitude for even being alive. The fact that I was molested since that age I am contributed to that feeling. I was an easy person to emotional and spiritually manipulate.

What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth”?

I never did find any bliss. I never felt any burning in the bosom and felt I must be somehow unworthy to not gain that spiritual witness. On the other hand, when i was completely immersed in callings (I was very consientious and had callings from age 11 - primary pianist-, all the way through YW's class presidents, to Stake primary pres. at age 34.), I did feel a kind of euphoria that I was actually necessary to the lord. "Look, I'm justifying my space on the planet!" Because it was all I knew, it never occured to me that the formula might not work; I just worked harder to MAKE it work! My childhood experience was extremely unique in that I lived in a very small, very geographically isolated, predominantly mormon community. So there were virtually no options available to my knowledge, until I left home at 17 and moved far away! By then I had been completely immersed in mo culture my whole life. We didn't even have tv or movie theatres available.
Long winded, but I could go on and on..... :)

Born Free

24th May 2005, 06:30 PM

Gracie,

"I was an easy person to emotional and spiritually manipulate."
I loved that bold 'was'. Why do I get the impression that it might not be smart to attempt it today?

Thanks for sharing.

Daryl

dancinfree

26th May 2005, 12:58 PM

What age did you join?

Well, I grew up going to primary on and off, even though my family was inactive. Friends and teachers supplied my rides and included me. My mother was baptized but her family didn't go to church and my dad's family? well, who knows...dad didn't talk much about his family. I'm not even sure dad's a member. Mother, though, always like the fact that I went to church and got involved pretty much. She made sure that all her girls were baptized. I liked going to primary...especially if we had refreshments!! I remember being a targeteer and a merrie miss! Love those names baby!!

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured? Had you experienced a major loss or destabilizing event prior to joining?

It was always my choice to attend or not as I grew up. It always seemed like a nice to place to be. I was the baby of a somewhat dysfunctional family, so in hindsight, I see that the church was a stabilizing factor for me. I always seemed to have my own personal belief in God. I would pray on my own occasionally. It brought me peace to know that I could always pray and HE would listen and be there for me...very safe. I always saw God as a He, father-figure..never questioning anything different at this point. My family had never read the BOM or the Bible for that matter so intellectually my intent for going to church wasn't determined by that. I remember feeling uncomfortable that I seemed to be the only primary child that didn't know the words or stories that everyone seemed to know but I couldn't figure out why. When my teachers spoke about Jesus, I always meshed Jesus with God. To me, they were the same.

As far as my childhood goes. I always seemed to feel love and cared for. My mother provided alot of that stability. I had good childhood friends also. My basic needs were met and because I was the youngest, I was always made out to be the "special" one, it seemed. Spoiled in a way but I always felt grateful for it all too. I wanted to be worthy of all the extravagance that I was given by words or material things.

What processes do you now believe Moism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?

The process of black/white. It seemed so simple to understand. I loved the fact that I could be baptized and all my evil sins would be washed away. The mystical idea of the Holy Ghost seemed so beautiful to me. That I was special because I had the Gift by being a member. I loved that!! I needed guidance and God was watching and guiding over me...how special and protected I felt. The story of Joseph Smith and the restoration, the BOM, basically fell on deaf ears for me. I just felt accepted and happy.

In retrospect were there a parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life”?

Oh YES!! I loved feeling Blissful!! Ignorant worked just fine for me!! The pre-packaged life was all I needed and I couldn't understand why more people fought it! Now, all I had to do was keep aligning myself with this wonderful, inspirational, god-driven path!! Can't be too hard, right? heehee. This pre-packaged path had it all...all my answers to life after death and God, angels, guidance, worthiness, sin, righteousness, right and wrong, good and bad. It's all here...very neat and very SAFE!! LOVED IT!! If I had a question, all I had to do was turn to a leader or the scriptures or the PRIESTHOOD and find all my answers and if the answers weren't there, than just have faith that ALL will be revealed someday but most of all...STAY the COURSE!! Don't fall away!! HOLD ON!! Be strong and VALIENT!! God's soldier, in a way. I didn't want to let HIM down! I was HIS warrior, a strong fighter for GOOD and RIGHT!!

How did the doctrines of Moism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?

I think as you can probably tell...I loved being RIGHT!! I needed to know how, what, when and where to go on my path back to God!! Everything was straight forward and clear. Ever hear the comment that: "Just because YOU don't believe it, doesn't make it not TRUE". I believed in absolute TRUTH. One truth, ONE way, One path back to God and by golly, lucky me has it!! If God talks to Joseph Smith then he can talk to me through the Holy Ghost, of course. HE watches over his flock!! I AM the lucky one...HE watches over me and gives me strength to fight the evil sins of the world and if I sin, well, I need to put forth more effort to get back to righteousness, back to GOD!! I loved hearing testimonies, seeing the Strength of people's spirits, their faith and I so badly wanted to BE one of THEM!

What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?

I would say that it was I who used the processes available to me and rejected others. The perfection message, I took as HUGE! Obedience was another one that rang true and deep for me. Repentence always gave me hope from my treacherous evil self. In this blissful state, looking at anything truly intellectual was secondary. I read the scriptures without input from the outside and I always felt good about them. I attended my meetings..more often than not..and I felt better when I went then when I stayed home. I liked listening to General conference..it made me feel good knowing that I was being a "good" mormon, by doing so. I felt "cleaner" knowing that I was doing the things that God wanted me to be doing. Ahhh, Blisss!

What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth”?

I think I found it when I mentioned that I loved and felt "cleaner" doing the things I thought God wanted me to do. I wanted so badly to be the good girl. The righteous girl. The girl that could be an example to others. I loved the attention that I received by showing that I was the righteous and spiritual girl. Do I dare use the word..PRIDE. Even to God, I wanted Him only to see the Good parts of me and erase the BAD parts of me. I truly believed God ran the show. I had many "spiritual expriences" with girls camps and testimony meetings and reading scriptures and I attributed them all to the fact that I was in HIS church..the TRUE church. If I didn't feel any warm and fuzzies, then it was up to me to "right" myself and get stronger spiritually to gain back my "warm and fuzzies."

Born Free

9th July 2006, 02:27 AM

Since we first created this Stage, with the development of the Stages Meta-Map, we sighted the possibility of a prior Destabilising Event. By that we mean that if a person is a convert, or their immediate ancestors were converts, did a major Destabilising Event precede 'conversion'; something like the death of a child or a near death experience?

Now the above does not preclude the possibility that for someone born in the Covenant, who fell inactive as a teenager, who had a traumatic event that was the trigger for their becoming active again.

Daryl

helemon

9th July 2006, 09:51 AM

Since we first created this Stage, with the development of the Stages Meta-Map, we sighted the possibility of a prior Destabilising Event. By that we mean that if a person is a convert, or their immediate ancestors were converts, did a major Destabilising Event precede 'conversion'; something like the death of a child or a near death experience?

My wife was in a car wreck as a teenager. A semi ran the stop light and slammed into the van that she and her mother were riding in. I do think this event had an impact on her by increasing her fear of death and thus desire to be more religious, but it was a couple years before she found the church.

Born Free

9th July 2006, 08:38 PM

I have shared elsewhere that three months before my mother joined she had miscarried a baby girl at full term, after 2 living sons.

My father had been struck over the heart by the crank-handle of a truck which failed to disengage. His doctor said it was a miracle he survived. Three months later my father was baptised.

I see these both a fitting the pre-conversion destabilising event/s.

Daryl

sakerra

9th July 2006, 11:18 PM

What age did you join?
Born into it. Baptized at eight.

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured? Had you experienced a major loss or destabilizing event prior to joining?
Yes, I did have a "distablilizing event" prior to joining. However I didn't have a choice anyway. I was eight, my family was LDS, I was to be baptized. The house was always slightly chaotic. With five kids already and foster/shelter siblings comming in and out monthly, church was a nice organized place.

What processes do you now believe Moism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?
That's easy, as a child it was the friends, the songs,the games, and the treats. What kid could want more?

In retrospect were there a parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life”?
Oh yes. As a little kid It was fun and my friends were there, but depression runs in my family and at age 11 I feel heavily into it. As a solution I depended on the church, and it brought me happiness. It really did. I began to love it and gained a "testimony" of it's "truthfulness" I didn't want anyone to say anything bad about it. By the time I was 12, I was more educated about the church than my friends, but still very blissfully ignorant.

How did the doctrines of Moism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?
As I said, I was depressed. My parents never noticed a thing, and the most advice I got was "Pray about it. He knows you, and hears you" So that's what I did and I learned to live for the church. I learned to love Joseph Smith.

What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?
I don't think they really did anything. I did it all myself. I read every book I get my hands on (That was church approved) such as The Work and the Glory, and anything and everything by Jack Weyland. I taught myself the hymns on the piano and played them daily. I said my prayers and read my scriptures. I never asked questions. For a long time, I never had reason. The most it probably shoved at me would be girls camp, or Youth Conference, but I chose to go to those. I wanted to. I wanted to be a good girl.

What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth”?
It was the peace I felt. It was that sense of happiness I had at church that I didn't have at home. It was a constant in my ever changing world. Then of course, spiritual experiences. Such as Seminary and girls camp. I just felt it was right.

As for my family and a "Destabilising Event". I really don't know. I only hear the inspiring stories. Being a sixth generation on one side and seven on the other, not much is known. I had one of my ancestors journals but it was only started once she was in America and already baptized.

Born Free

9th July 2006, 11:53 PM

lunaverse

10th July 2006, 11:25 AM

Thanks for posting that Sakerra, many parts of that read just like my own story, except that I can't remember enough about being 11 to know if I was depressed or not. :confused: That, and I didn't have a big family.

Luna

lunaverse

10th July 2006, 11:50 AM

What age did you join?

BOC.

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured? Had you experienced a major loss or destabilizing event prior to joining?

At age 7, I lost the will to live, and nearly died of a rare childhood ailment, Kawasaki's disease. I began to recover after having a blessing. (I think I'd had a lot of blessings BEFORE that one, not sure why THEY didn't work. :) ) I don't think that had anything to do with my baptism, as I would have been baptised anyway.

I remember an older child telling me the Gift of the Holy Ghost was great, because you could pray and it would help you find lost things. I was looking forward to that, having powers and all.

What processes do you now believe Moism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?

The primary lessons are so simplistic, and it really doesn't get much more advanced after that. In Seminary and after that, I really craved deeper knowledge that was so often promised but never given.

I've read over some of those primary lessons since leaving. They are very manipulative. The one that stands out (because I wrote something about it) equates feelings of love for a young sibling to the Holy Ghost. i.e. it re-lables a normal human feeling as something magical, proof that the Church is true.

Children believe in Santa Clause, and only stop believing when the magic gets too impossible to believe (like how does Santa get to every single kid's house at exactly midnight?) or another kid or adult tells them. How is it any different with religious beliefs? Only those beliefs are more complex, and therefore harder to reality check by ourselves.

We're evolutionarily wired to believe our parents and the adults around us, because in our primative past, it saved us from starvation and being eaten by preditors. The meme of religion, especially a family-focused one like Mormonism, depends on this to spread down through the generations. How can you question a Truth that you've known as a Reality since age 0, that everyone else considers reality... Especially when questioning can lead to Eternal Demise?

In retrospect were there a parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life”?

Yes. I was happy to be Right when the rest of the world was Wrong. The sad part was that I couldn't wait to die, because life was so difficult, resisting temptation was so hard. The hereafter was so much better, so why couldn't I just get it over with and be hit by a truck? Or let the apocolypse come and wipe everyone out.

How did the doctrines of Moism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?

When I was a teen, I was very self-righteous, and I think that's when the Church filled my needs the most. It gave me something to be arrogant about besides my intelligence and achievments. I used both as a substitute for self-esteem. In fact, one of the philosophy games I would play was trying to figure out the difference between Pride and Self-Esteem, Humility and Self-Loathing. The answer is obvious now, but at the time I knew I didn't have that answer, so I'd think about it a lot. I thought the line was very thin and difficult to ride. What I couldn't accept is that Humility and Self-Esteem were contradictory and couldn't co-exist.

At any rate, I needed ways to protect myself from my peers, so one way was to be "better" than them, more righteous, more knowledgable about the Gospel.

Into my adulthood, the Church stopped filling this need, and pretty much stopped filling any need. I stayed in that state for a lot of years before leaving. For a while it gave me hope, since my early 20's situation was dire, but the promised blessings never came.

What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?

My mom would tell stories about how she had read anti-Mormon or RLDS literature and had started to get pulled into it, but then she would get the stupor of thought or a bad feeling of some kind. I never would have dreamed of reading anti literature.

What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth”?

I did have a couple of churchy spiritual experiences. But this was offset by more powerful and frequent spiritual experiences I'd had during a summer away from Church, hanging out with non-member friends. I had a hard time reconciling that. I never really had much of an emotional testimony. I had tried so many times. Followed the formula, read the BoM 3.5 times, prayed, fasted, went to the Temple. Instead of blaming the Church, I blamed myself, considered myself a non-intuitive person, a spiritual sender rather than a receiver. I figured God wanted me to figure everything out on my own, even in my desparation.

My testimony was a mental one, rational, logical. Pre-assuming the Jesus myth is true, Mormonism does a better job of explaining things than mainstream Christianity -- but all that assumes the Bible is 100% true (and that you ignore all internal contradictions). Once you remove the Bible and reliable God-to-Man revelation... Mormonism stops making any kind of sense.

Luna

bobcat

21st July 2006, 02:42 AM

What age did you join?

BOC.

What level of personal development were you at when entering Stage 1? Was your life chaotic or well structured? Had you experienced a major loss or destabilizing event prior to joining?

I was a quick study, both in religion and "secular" pursuits. I hoenstly don't remember when I entered this phase, but there isn't a time that I remember where I didn't live in the ignorance of selective analysis, and wasn't happy as a clam. I remember being as young as 4 and actually bearing my testimony, using my own words and beliefs, as opposed to have my mom leaning over my shoulder and helping me "bury" my testimony.

What processes do you now believe Moism used to create Blissful Ignorance when you joined, whether as a young adult, adult or a member-child?

Like I said, I really don't remember the "creation" of this blissful ignorance very well. I don't remember ever not having it.

In retrospect were there a parts of you that were happy to be Blissfully Ignorant? Was it easy to run with a prepackaged solution to the “meaning of life”?

I don't know if I was happy, to the point of feeling warm fuzzies every time I gave a blessing or gave a talk. But I was content in the way that success often brings contentment: I was good at what I did, and that made me feel good.

How did the doctrines of Moism fulfill the needs you had at the level you were at?

Between the apologetics, psuedo-science, and the appeals to ego, my needs (and my time) were filled very well. At least it filled all the needs I recognized. I spent hours every week reading doctrinal books, discussing things with more experienced adults, and just running around fulfilling my callings. Even the teenage sex drive, which is normally promient in boys that age, was buried under everything else. The needs that were NOT filled by this were not apparent to me at the time.

What processes did Mo use to maintain Blissful Ignorance once you were on board?

They used what worked on me: appeal to ego (desire to be a leader of men and to distinguish myself from others), appeals to psuedo-science (the books by Mormon "archaelogits" who "proved" the BoM true, and a very, very early entry into Mormon apologetics. They basically wanted to convince me that there was place in Mormonism for someone just like me.

What was the true nature of the bliss (and then perhaps the "burnings in the bosom" and spiritual experiences) that convinced you we had the "truth”?

To be honest, I never had a "burning in my bosom" experience from anything Mormon until I figured out how to trigger the reaction manually while in the MTC. I got the "warm fuzzies" from movies and books a lot, but never from religion. I always figured that this was because God spoke to me in a different way than most other people, and it didn't bother me at all. I figured that the reason God didn't confirm what I knew was that he was convinced that I had convinced myself plenty and enough.

Born Free

21st July 2006, 08:16 PM

Bobcat,

Thanks for adding your personal story to the tapestry assembled here. I am sure that your story being 'out there' will help someone else increase the clarity about where they are at, and their confidence in moving 'forward'.

I'd also be interested to hear if you have any specific ah-ha's as you interact with the various questions.

Daryl