Departing Moism - Stage 6 – Shock, Awe and Anger

[Born Free]

Stage 6 of the departing model is Shock, Awe and Anger - involves feeling the full impact of your situation, of the full extent of what you have failed to access, and the resultant impact on you. This may include concerns about the implications that leaving might carry for nuclear and extended families.

DIALECTIC: We embrace the opposition as indeed having value and feel lied to about their inherent “evil”. We stew in the anger that some facets of truth were withheld.

The whole Draft Model thus far is at http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/...hp?t=288&page=2

Preceding threads posted are:
Stage 1 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=339
Stage 2 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=317
Stage 3 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=322
Stage 4 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=324
Stage 5 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=334

Please Copy & Paste (highlight, [Control]/”C”) the following questions, open a Post Reply, then [Control] “V” to paste them, then insert your response against each question.

How long you spend going through stages 2 through 5?

Do you believe the amount of time and the degree of trauma effected how long you were in stage 6?

How hard has it been for you to get past the anger?

What have you tried to shift/heal the anger? What worked best?

On a scale of 1 – 5 (5 being very angry) how would you rate your present level of anger?

Do you feel you have been told to “Get over it!”?

How do you feel about that advice?

Do you wonder if you are stuck in anger some times?

Describe the elements and sequence of your response when you were confronted with the extent of the problem.

We are looking to compare responses to this question to see what patterns (similarities/differences) emerge, so please cut and paste each of the questions, followed by your response/s, so that everyones responses remain in the same sequence.

Daryl

PS: Here are some other threads somewhat related to this stage:

% who still feel anger: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=326
Post-Mo Therapy to recover: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=165
Social hooks Mo uses to control: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=148
Helping victim of sexual abuse heal: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=132
I am grieved: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=128
Dreams, nightmares: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=114
Unhealthy Mo psychology: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=84

[Born Free]

How long you spend going through stages 2 through 5?

I believe the discomforts were there from the very first day I was taken to Sunday School and accelerated into more complexity as I matured, so I recycled to varying degress for about 30 years.

Do you believe the amount of time and the degree of trauma effected how long you were in stage 6?

Yes I am sure that it was a combination of the two.

How hard has it been for you to get past the anger?

I helped develop this whole Leaving Mo process, so does that answer the question? I have ongoing issues, and residual anger. I figure I have wasted big chunks of my life caught up with this shallow religion, believing that I was the problem.

What have you tried to shift/heal the anger? What worked best?

I have tried meditation, therapy, hypnotherapy, studying forgiveness and reconcilliation, and cults. More recently I am trying some breath work to reconnect with body and that is very encouraging, but early days

On a scale of 1 – 5 (5 being very angry) how would you rate your present level of anger?

I still would rate myself 3-4.

Do you feel you have been told to “Get over it!”?

With some regularity.

How do you feel about that advice?

I vascilate between thinking I should be moved on further, and thinking I have every good reason to feel angry, and will move on when I move on. I feel uncomfortable with the idea of doing mental override, as if that may just repress and prolong the process.

Do you wonder if you are stuck in anger some times?

Sure do!

Describe the elements and sequence of your response when you were confronted with the extent of the problem.

I was exed, so in some ways I may have processed this about face. I am still discovering the Churchs dodgy history and duplicity. I am still coming to see how shallow its philosophy is, and to fully appreciate the extent of its abuse of people on many levels.

I was into anger some time before the departure, but I drifted, not letting my anger have full voice, which may be why I have an ongoing challenge with depression (anger expressed inwards). I believe Mormonism actively encourages people to disconnect from their anger, which is seen as a "not nice' emotion, and Mos are so nice, aren't they???

Daryl

[free thinker]

Stage 6 of the departing model is Shock, Awe and Anger - involves feeling the full impact of your situation, of the full extent of what you have failed to access, and the resultant impact on you. This may include concerns about the implications that leaving might carry for nuclear and extended families.

DIALECTIC: We embrace the opposition as indeed having value and feel lied to about their inherent “evil”. We stew in the anger that some facets of truth were withheld.

The whole Draft Model thus far is at http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/...hp?t=288&page=2

Preceding threads posted are:
Stage 1 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=339
Stage 2 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=317
Stage 3 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=322
Stage 4 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=324
Stage 5 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=334

Please Copy & Paste (highlight, [Control]/”C”) the following questions, open a Post Reply, then [Control] “V” to paste them, then insert your response against each question.

How long you spend going through stages 2 through 5?

Do you believe the amount of time and the degree of trauma effected how long you were in stage 6?

How hard has it been for you to get past the anger?

What have you tried to shift/heal the anger? What worked best?

On a scale of 1 – 5 (5 being very angry) how would you rate your present level of anger?

Do you feel you have been told to “Get over it!”?

How do you feel about that advice?

Do you wonder if you are stuck in anger some times?

Describe the elements and sequence of your response when you were confronted with the extent of the problem.

We are looking to compare responses to this question to see what patterns (similarities/differences) emerge, so please cut and paste each of the questions, followed by your response/s, so that everyones responses remain in the same sequence.

Daryl

PS: Here are some other threads somewhat related to this stage:

% who still feel anger: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=326
Post-Mo Therapy to recover: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=165
Social hooks Mo uses to control: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=148
Helping victim of sexual abuse heal: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=132
I am grieved: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=128
Dreams, nightmares: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=114
Unhealthy Mo psychology: http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=84

How long you spend going through stages 2 through 5?

I am still involved in this as I am in my first year post-mo!

Do you believe the amount of time and the degree of trauma effected how long you were in stage 6?

Yes and as stated above I am still in this stage.

How hard has it been for you to get past the anger?

It is subsiding as time passes, but originally it was consuming. My girlfriend who was not ever mormon just could not understand it. I just couldn't, and still am struggling to get past it. I just feel decieved. I think I could have left some time ago, if I had known the facts.

What have you tried to shift/heal the anger?
What worked best?

I am applying the tincture of time. It seems to heal all wounds.

On a scale of 1 – 5 (5 being very angry) how would you rate your present level of anger?

6

Do you feel you have been told to “Get over it!”?

Yes as stated above!!

How do you feel about that advice?

It is like asking someone to get over the loss of a loved one. It just doesn't work that way. It takes time. I really have wanted it to be over, but I think it will require some patience.

Do you wonder if you are stuck in anger some times?

Yes, and that bothers me. I don't like to dwell on negatives in life. I am a positive person by nature, but the deception is real and deep.

Describe the elements and sequence of your response when you were confronted with the extent of the problem.

I had recently bought a new quad and as I was reading Grant Palmers book, I became so angry that I got off the couch and walked to a nearby canal, and with some authority chucked it in the canal!! I was very angry. I did not want the Book of Mormon in my home!!

[dogzilla]

Boy, I'm going to have to read that Grant Palmer book if it's powerful enough to make you chuck a brand new quad into a canal! I just can't bring myself to trash my old seminary-marked up copies of the scriptures. I kicked ass in some scripture chases and still can't stop feeling superior about it. (I'm great fun in bars and at cocktail parties. :p )

Eeeeehhhhnnyway.

How long you spend going through stages 2 through 5?
I'd say 2-3 years. Then I just let go of the guilt and gave up religion for Lent. (Irony intended.)

Do you believe the amount of time and the degree of trauma effected how long you were in stage 6?

"Affected" and yes. If I hadn't believed that God had turned his back on me by disciplining me for my own abuse... I'd probably still be in the church, questioning nothing.

How hard has it been for you to get past the anger?
Very difficult. Once I was able to get past the anger about being abused, then I had to get over the anger from the way the church handled that abuse. The latter has taken a lot longer because your church is where you are supposed to feel safe and protected -- it should be a haven. In my case, it was anything but. I wouldn't say I'm completely over it either.

What have you tried to shift/heal the anger? What worked best?
Leaving the church worked best -- I didn't have to try to squish my worldview into a paradigm that I saw as obviously and clearly bullpoopy. Mostly time and distance helped me get there.

On a scale of 1 – 5 (5 being very angry) how would you rate your present level of anger?
More like 1-2 now. I've found more productive ways to spend my energy that make me feel good, instead of spinning my wheels to feel like crap.

Do you feel you have been told to “Get over it!”?
Not overtly. You'd be surprised at how many people can be really insensitive to abuse survivors, let alone how unsympathetic non-mormons can be to postmos. Mostly, I just learned not to talk about these issues because I couldn't find anyone who could relate to what I've been through. Until now. (Group hug for the post-mo community.)

How do you feel about that advice?
"Get over it" is a statement given by someone who hasn't walked a mile in the shoes of the person they are talking to. I rank it right up there with, "I'm sure you'll meet a nice man just as soon as you stop looking," and "You'd be so pretty if you could just lose 50 pounds." All insensitive comments like that fill me with grrr.

Do you wonder if you are stuck in anger some times?
Yes, but then I look around and realize it's actually a wonder that I'm not more angry than I really am. We all have so much to be angry about. It's amazing to me how forgiving and resilient humans can be. We are wondrous creatures. And, I think we'd make great pets.

Describe the elements and sequence of your response when you were confronted with the extent of the problem.
Uhhhhh.... huh? I'm not sure what this is really asking. (Sorry, semantics problems again! :o ) Are you asking for a description of my meltdown? I don't think I really can point to a single incident that made me mad enough to go, "Oh yeah, that's it. I'm chucking this quad into the canal." It's been more like a slow smolder over many years. Tends to flare up when someone asks me a question relating to abuse and I realize that my answer is horribly inept because of the way my issues were handled. For example, a co-worker of mine recently discovered that her 9-year-old autistic son was sexually abused by another, older kid at his church. I shared my experiences with her and she shared that she'd been through the same thing so all the rage just kept coming back. She asked me if my abuser had ever apologized to me. I was taken aback, realizing that the church had pretty much kept us apart so any healing conversations that might have taken place were prevented. And that kind of thing makes me want to chuck a quad into a canal.

[elder_nomo]

again, i sort of jumped over a stage here. i gradually came to my conclusions and left the church, but did not have much anger at the time.

How long did you spend going through stages 2 through 5?
about 2 ½ years to go from niggling doubts to leaving the church.

Do you believe the amount of time and the degree of trauma affected how long you were in stage 6?
leaving the church was very traumatic, but probably my relatively short time as a member made it easier for me to let go quickly.

How hard has it been for you to get past the anger?
i left the church over 25 years ago and for a long time i didn't have much anger at all.
when i left, i very much believed the church was not true. but i couldn't be certain that i was right and they were wrong. i couldn't say "i know the church is false".
[yeah :Crazy: ]
and so, i didn't feel "lied to" or that anyone was trying to "fool" me. the missionaries who taught me and the members who encouraged me all seemed sincere in their beliefs. when i was a TBM i did what i did because i thought it was right. i supposed that most TBMs were the same. led by blind faith and ignorance, not by evil or malice.

What have you tried to shift/heal the anger? What worked best?
most of the time, i just plain ignored the church.
as of late it sometimes feels good to post snarky comments here.
[thank you postmormon.org!]

On a scale of 1 – 5 (5 being very angry) how would you rate your present level of anger?
1 or 2.

Do you feel you have been told to “Get over it!”?
i gave myself that advice.

How do you feel about that advice?
i pretty much followed it!
of course here i am, years later, posting to postmormon.org.
so..... one might ask, if i'm so "over it", what am i doing here?
well, i long wished i could tell my story to somebody who would understand it. it was a huge event in my life and nobody ever gets it. just to get it off my chest, i guess.
but i also hoped that in the telling, maybe some little bit would strike a chord with someone and might be of some small help or encouragement.

Do you wonder if you are stuck in anger some times?
i wouldn't call it "stuck in anger." i would say i have some justifiable outrage.

Describe the elements and sequence of your response when you were confronted with the extent of the problem.
for a long time i had thought of the church as being pretty benign - misguided but harmless.
but then i learned it does real damage to real people. when a gay friend told me about what the church put him through, trying to "cure" him, i got angry.
about a month or so ago, i happened onto this and some other web sites. the more i learn about the church's secrets and injustices and harmful actions, the more angry i get. thankfully, it's not a consuming anger - it doesn't hold me. but i am more willing to speak out now.

[free thinker]

Yes I suppose chucking my quad in the canal was a bit dramatic. It was very cathartic though!

Perhaps someday we could have post-mo olympics and that would be an event.

" Well Bob Free Thinker is back for his second toss. What do you think? "

"Jim considering all the BS he put up with for all those years, I would guess he will do pretty well here"

"Well he certainly has a good grip on it Bob, and that angry and disapointed look on his face"... Ok here goes!!!.... Goodness gracious did he ever give that a toss"

" Ya Jim they could feel that one all the way back to Nauvoo" Joseph Smith would not have approved of course, but I think he would have admired Free Thinker's resolute action in this event"

"I think you're right Bob. Great, great quad toss for Free Thinker in anyones book!! No pun intended!! " Looks like we have a measurement now. Oh, Oh 30 feet!! Wow, I knew it was a good one!! That could just about do it don't you think?

"Well maybe Jim, but remember there is a lot of angst in the souls of some of these new post-mo's. They may just give him a run for it!! " :D

You know!! It could go something like that!!

Free Thinker

[dogzilla]

Yes I suppose chucking my quad in the canal was a bit dramatic. It was very cathartic though!

Perhaps someday we could have post-mo olympics and that would be an event.

" Well Bob Free Thinker is back for his second toss. What do you think? "

"Jim considering all the BS he put up with for all those years, I would guess he will do pretty well here"

"Well he certainly has a good grip on it Bob, and that angry and disapointed look on his face"... Ok here goes!!!.... Goodness gracious did he ever give that a toss"

" Ya Jim they could feel that one all the way back to Nauvoo" Joseph Smith would not have approved of course, but I think he would have admired Free Thinker's resolute action in this event"

"I think you're right Bob. Great, great quad toss for Free Thinker in anyones book!! No pun intended!! " Looks like we have a measurement now. Oh, Oh 30 feet!! Wow, I knew it was a good one!! That could just about do it don't you think?

"Well maybe Jim, but remember there is a lot of angst in the souls of some of these new post-mo's. They may just give him a run for it!! " :D

You know!! It could go something like that!!

Free Thinker

Hey, that's pretty funny. We could award special prizes, depending on which scripture is showing when the quad lands!

There could be a coffee-brewing event... And a garment-destroying event (Creative uses for garments)...

I'll get to work on that right away!

[peter_mary]

This seems sort of trivial coming on the heel's of Free Thinker's Quad Toss event, :D but still...

How long did you spend going through stages 2 through 5?

Well, there were nigglers for most of my membership, but I'd say I was more focused on the concerns and inconsistencies for the last 4 years of my activity.

Do you believe the amount of time and the degree of trauma effected how long you were in stage 6?

Hmmm...no, I don't think so. Well, maybe. I don't know. :Crazy:

Here's what I think. I believe I was angry because I felt duped at a young age, sacrificed some of the best years of my life and family, anticipated a lot of judgement from Ward members, and gave the Church a hell of a lot of money, but losing the Church just didn't grieve me like it did my wife, and others I know who were born and raised in the Church. For me, as a convert, leaving the Church was like coming home. So the shock and anger I felt was mostly the way I feel when I realized I've been tricked and lied to. But I also quickly realized that I am fundamentally safe and okay, that the price I paid was high, but I learned some incredible things as a result, and I'd probably just squander all that money on a cabin in the mountains somewhere anyway (okay, THAT one still pisses me off... :o ) I was a lot more angry about the control that the Church continued (and continues) to exert on my life, and THAT feels immoral to me. But that really didn't have anything to do with how much time I spent investigating and reading. I'm STILL doing those things, and the anger is mostly abated at this point.

How hard has it been for you to get past the anger?

For the most part, I think it was pretty smooth for me. I needed to vent for about a year or two, and thankfully I had a support system in place to do just that. I still get "animated," but not very often do I get angry unless I experience the Church exerting control in my life...which the more alert among our members may have noticed has happened QUITE recently by the fact that I had to change my identity on this forum! GRRR! :mad:

But that is the kind of anger that comes and goes throughout our lives regardless of the source, and I don't attribute it to my exodus from the Church per se.

What have you tried to shift/heal the anger? What worked best?

Talking a LOT, and immersing myself in the information about the Church (reminding me that I'm not crazy, the Church is). I also spent considerable time reading and studying mindfulness and compassion from a Zen perspective, and it opened me up to a lot of realizations that made the anger seem unskillful an unecessary. The things I learned studying eastern philosophy really were beneficial in addressing the anger.

On a scale of 1 – 5 (5 being very angry) how would you rate your present level of anger?

Oh, probably a hair over 1.

Do you feel you have been told to “Get over it!”?

Nope, nobody has been in a position to tell me that. My wife and friends have all been in the same boat, and they all readily agree that we are each entitled to our unique journey and the attendant feelings associated with that journey. Nobody in the Church has ever approached me and suggested I "get over it."

How do you feel about that advice?

Not applicable.

Do you wonder if you are stuck in anger some times?

Used to wonder about that, when I was in the "anger phase" for the first year or two, but I've worked hard to move out of that stage.

Describe the elements and sequence of your response when you were confronted with the extent of the problem.

As I read the damning historical and philosophical information regarding the Church, I got pretty spun up and needed to talk. So I talked A LOT about what I was reading, how it made me feel, etc. For a while, my wife and I carefully planned what we would say and how when we were confronted by the Bishop, but that never happened. Nevertheless, we expended a lot of energy trying to craft our "story" so as to maximize the integrity of our response while minimizing the damage that caused. It was distressing to me that I felt we had to do that, but hell, we that's the kind of community we live in. We STILL feel like we have to do that...

For a while I went to Church and looked for things that I could get mad about. I'd look for things that were said in Priesthood that I could comment on in a controversial way. I wanted people to know that I wasn't thinking the same way they were, and that they needed to "step back, 'cause Peter_Mary is in the house!" (That didn't last long...the "house" was a hell of a lot bigger than Peter_Mary, and turns out, they don't really care whether I was in it or not...ouch!)

So then we just starting our slow dissent into inactivity. Each time we'd settle on a level of activity that we thought we could maintain, our Bishop would say or do something that pushed us to the next level until finally, after a fiasco of a week ago, it's highly unlikely we'll ever darken the door of our own Ward again, though we'd still attend the mission farewells and homecomings of family members, or baby blessings, or any time a family member invites us to attend for a "reason."

Anyway, I'm not sure that answers that question or not...

Peter_Mary

[bigeddy]

How long you spend going through stages 2 through 5?

I spent approx. 25 years going through these stages.

Do you believe the amount of time and the degree of trauma effected how long you were in stage 6?

I do believe this. I reenter stage 6 every time I encounter another case where people I care about are being hurt by the capricious and arbitrary use of power and authority that are so much a part of moism. Such misuse of authority is not as much a result of momo doctrine as it is a result of the fact that moism is at a lower stage of human evolution. Any system at that lower level will manifest this. So now, my stage 6-type anger is not at mosim as much as it is at people who refuse to grow and refuse to see that their lack of evolution is hurting others.

How hard has it been for you to get past the anger?

As stated, I still bop back and forth out of and back into the anger. Living in Utard contributes greatly to this. The level of development of the entire state is effected greatly by the low level development of momo's leaders. So, every manifestation of the power/control bullshit I see here I tend to lay at the doors of the SL Temple. My family laughs at me when I encounter a stoplight at an intersection where it is so not needed. Momo's love to control. Whenever there is a problem they stick in a controll aspect. When I worked for the church I saw this. Every time there was a problem of any kind we would get a new rule. At BYU I got sick and tired of all the signs that were of the "DON'T DO THIS OR THAT-- $200 FINE" type. These signs are all over. We joked alot about this and invented our own. i.e. "Don't chew with your mouth open--$50 fine." "Don't think for yourself--$600 fine." So, whenever I encounter one of these control mechanisms in Utard (such as traffic lights where there need not be one) I often say "f***ing mormons" My kids howl with laughter and then point out that such would happen anywhere anyway. I like to blame it on the momomomomboys and girls.

What have you tried to shift/heal the anger? What worked best?

I continually remind myself that the problems have nothing inherantly to do with moism but are, instead, manifestations of lower levels of evolution. Now, this helps, but moism is a system that, along with being lower level on the evolved human scale, claims to be the "it and all about it" who speaks not for human authority but for God herself. It would be easier for me to live in any authoritarian system that does everything moism does but does not claim to be anything other than another system of human management.

On a scale of 1 – 5 (5 being very angry) how would you rate your present level of anger?

Let's see--what day is it? Today I am at a 1. I go back and forth (as explained above) between 0 and 3. I was in 5 for several years when first departing.

Do you feel you have been told to “Get over it!”?

I feel I am told this all the time. THe old "see, you can leave it but you cannot leave it alone" bullshit reigns supreme around here. I explain that I can and did leave it but it continues to hurt people I love, of course I will continue to be angry at it. I now see my anger as not so much stage 6 but kind of like Jeff mentioned in another thread, that if I see someone walking about with a deadly comunicable disease I will feel a strong desire to do what I can to stop it. Anger (or I more often refer to it as indignation) seems to be a part of my desire to stop it.

How do you feel about that advice?

Can you say "horseshit"? I don't intend to get over it. I don't want to lose that indignation against something hurtful.

Do you wonder if you are stuck in anger some times?

I don't believe this. I am choosing to be indignant at a system that says one thing and does, so clearly does, another.

Describe the elements and sequence of your response when you were confronted with the extent of the problem.

1. Be angry. (rant and rave a little bit--I tend to clarify my emotions by venting them)
2. Seek validation. I went to my brothers and explored together what I was seeing and feeling. They felt the same and the validation was very important. I also sought validation in the writings of people who have always been nonmo. I read Wilber, Kushner, Mathew Fox, Sam Keen, and others whose growth and evolution I could clearly see. Comparing their writings to the GA's was very validating because the paucity of growth and wisdom among momo's leaders became as clear as anything could be.
3. Seek an explanation. We (my brothers and I) spent lots of hours discussing whether the GAs are evil and acting as they do while knowing that they are unevolved and wicked, or whether they truly believe the bullshit they feed people. I have come to believe (as an explanation) that the leaders have become fixated, by desires to continue to be powerful, at lower levels of development. Vertical growth may be, for Boyd as an example, just too much to expect. To expect him to give up power and control for such a small thing as the truth may be asking a trifle too much. Further, their denial is fully active and they truly do not see the light of the sun at noon day. They cannot and still have the comforts, powers and etc. they now enjoy. It is indeed asking a lot for people to grow under those circumstances.
4. Address the real problems. As noted above, the real problem is not moism--it is lack of growth and evolution. THe problem is not Boyd. The problem is any system that gives a human such power that is not countered by a dialectic, any system that does not allow checks and balances to that power will destroy human beings. I am teaching in Davis County, the county second only to Utah County in the number of mobots moping about. I teach psychology in a way that promotes critical thinking and will, it is my hope, aid people in moving in a direction of growth and evolution. Each semester I see and talk privately with mobots who are beginning to question. I move them along in the critical thinking thing ethically.
5. Trust the process. I believe in evolution. I see us growing and learning and although sometimes the only way up is down, we are moving upward.

Ed

[helemon]

How long you spend going through stages 2 through 5?
went from 2 pretty much straight to 5. From 2-5 was about 3 yrs but this was due more to lack of access to information than active denial or repression.

Do you believe the amount of time and the degree of trauma effected how long you were in stage 6?
Amount of time of what? Time in the church? No I don't think so. I think it was just the general passage of time that caused me not to feel as betrayed or frustrated by what the church taught.

How hard has it been for you to get past the anger?
Not hard. Participation in groups to discuss these issues helped to work through anger and frustration and hear from other who were in a similar situation.

What have you tried to shift/heal the anger? What worked best?
Group therapy in online forums and newsgroups, continued research to validate position and findings, passage of time.

On a scale of 1 – 5 (5 being very angry) how would you rate your present level of anger?
2

Do you feel you have been told to “Get over it!”?
Yes or "just forgive them."

How do you feel about that advice?
Frustrated, childish, unrealistic.

Do you wonder if you are stuck in anger some times?
Sometimes. I don't think I felt anger so much as frustration and disbelief and amazement at others not feeling the same.

Describe the elements and sequence of your response when you were confronted with the extent of the problem.
Extent of what problem? Extent of the churches misrepresenting its past? Amazement, disbelief, frustration that they tried to hide it.

[silverfox]

Refreshing this thread.

There has been a lot of focus from some members on why Post Mos experience anger. I hope this thread helps others understand.

Also check out the links to other stages.

Born Free, you did a wonderful job pulling all these stages together. I know it has been very helpful to not only members here but to lurkers as well. Thank you

[lunaverse]

From Recovery From Cults, pp 312-313:

"Anger is one of the first signs of recovery from the cult experience. Anger is a normal and healthy reaction to the numerous harms and assaults perpetrated upon us. Anger is the most appropriate response to the abuse and manipulations of the cult and is also the hardest for some ex-members to get in touch with and deal with. Anger means you are now ready to acknowledge that you were victimized. [Emphasis NOT added.] That is incredibly painful. What was done was heinous, evil. Ex-members are entitled to their rage.

"Anger may be hard for family, friends, and sometimes even therapists to accept. You may be urged to 'forgive and forget.' Ex-members who have been brought up to hide or deny 'negative' feelings may not have the tools or experience to know how to express this potentially healing emotion..."

"Just as fear is the backbone of mind control, anger is the powerhouse of recovery... Anger fortifies your sense of what is right by condemning the wrong that was done to you. It provides the energy and will to proceed through the difficult task of getting your life back together.... Suppression of such anger in the cult contributed to depression and a sense of helplessness. [Emphasis added]"

The author goes on to suggest a few healthy outlets for this anger... Write about it in a diary, write a letter to the cult leader telling him/her off without sending it, talk to someone about your feelings, scream in the shower, scream in the car with the radio up, pound pillows, fantasize about revenge without taking action, speak publicly about your experience, take an assertiveness training course, and sue the bastards.

We seem to be providing a large number of these outlets on boards like this one and RfM.

Compare this to what the Book of Mormon has to say:

"...And there shall be no disputations among you, as there have hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been.

"For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.
"Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away." 3 Nephi 11:28-30

Mormons would like to think this anger is proof that we're in the wrong spirit of things, beguiled by the devil, more evidence that they're right and we're wrong. However, according to the experts (who have studied other cults at great length and found this to be true there), this is not only normal, but healthy. Suppression, as Nephi the Third would prefer, is unhealthy.

It seems this anger is more likely to be evidence that Mormonism actually *is* a cult. After all, those other cult leaders tell *their people* the same thing -- "Ex-members are angry and hostile instead of nice and sweet like we are, so that just means they're evil." Sound familiar? It's nothing unique to Mormonism.

The only alternate theory that would account for anger amongst ex-members of all cults, is that all of those groups are true.... In which case, we live in a very contradictory universe indeed.

Luna

[hamar]

[B]How long you spend going through stages 2 through 5?

I left tscc back in March and am still progressing through the stages. I think I'm still bouncing off the walls of reality; however, I'm more into stage six than anything else at the moment. I hit the peak of my anger phase about a month ago and seem to be moving rapidly into a phase of less anger, although I can still get pretty angry at times when the right circumstances present themselves.

Do you believe the amount of time and the degree of trauma effected how long you were in stage 6?

Yes, I don't know how long it will take for me to fully recover. Not sure I ever will completely recover; the anger will likely just fade into a state of numbness.

How hard has it been for you to get past the anger?

Not as hard as for others on these boards. I can be pretty caustic about my feelings about tscc and don't apologize for that, I spent a good part of my life in tscc and feel as if I've been had by a good used car salesman. However, I spent a good part of my life in another church and already had a strong religious foundation, so that has not been destroyed as a result of learning that tscc is total bullshit. I've retained a good bit of my belief system while shedding moism.

What have you tried to shift/heal the anger? What worked best?

I'm still working on it. I've spent more time reading the NLT Life Application Bible and reading more philosophy books ( I like Soccrates, but not much into the New Age folks). I think, what works best for me, is spending a lot of time reflecting quietly on where I want to go from here.

On a scale of 1 – 5 (5 being very angry) how would you rate your present level of anger?

That varies from 3 to 5, but more at a 3 most of the time and dimishing weekly. I really need to get on with my life. Life is too short to dwell on the silly errors I've made in my spiritual choices. I agonize over the fact that I've led my children and grandchildren into a spiritual system that is based on lies, perversion, and trickery.

Do you feel you have been told to “Get over it!”?

Yup.

How do you feel about that advice?

I think the "dog" said it best, those who say these things don't know what the hell they are talking about. 30 years of believing comes crashing down pretty hard on those that suddenly realize that the system they have had faith in all these years is based on bullshit, smoke and mirrors. You don't JUST GET OVER IT. It takes time and sharing and talking with others to get past it and move forward. Life is too short to dwell on it too long though. It will continue to be my mission, though, to help others find the truth about tscc for a long time into the future

Do you wonder if you are stuck in anger some times?

Yup.

Describe the elements and sequence of your response when you were confronted with the extent of the problem.

Others here have said it better; I smoldered without even realizing that I was smoldering for a long time. I remember sitting in meetings, with my head in my hands, wondering what the hell I was doing there and then chastising myself for having those feelings. That went on for years.
Then when I was in the branch president's office to get DW a blessing, because she was really struggling with SIL's apostacy, our BP suggested that his apostacy was our fault because we weren't attending the temple enough. That kicked DW over the edge and she made up her mind to take a closer look. We did it together and within a couple of weeks we weren't going to tscc church any longer. Within a month after that we had decided to resign together. During that period we must have read six or seven of the most prominent titles on church historical topics.
Now we both feel it is our calling to share with other members whenever they indicate any interest in our choices.

[lunaverse]

Then when I was in the branch president's office to get DW a blessing, because she was really struggling with SIL's apostacy, our BP suggested that his apostacy was our fault because we weren't attending the temple enough. That kicked DW over the edge and she made up her mind to take a closer look.

Maybe SIL left because of some comment his Bishop/BP made. ;)

Luna

[hamar]

Maybe SIL left because of some comment his Bishop/BP made. ;)

Luna

Nah, he smarter than me. He was a seminary and institute teacher and found himself researching history for his lessons and came accross some disturbing history that shook his belief in tscc.
He bailed about two years ago and I didn't ask him why until after I'd bailed or was about to bail. Put the ole blinders on and refused to hear his concerns. :duh
Not that his bishop hasn't done some pretty stupid things though; he suggested to DD that she might have to consider leaving SIL because of his apostacy. :Crazy: WTF?

Harry

[Born Free]

Refreshing this thread.

There has been a lot of focus from some members on why Post Mos experience anger. I hope this thread helps others understand.

Also check out the links to other stages.

Born Free, you did a wonderful job pulling all these stages together. I know it has been very helpful to not only members here but to lurkers as well. Thank you
Silverfox,

Thanks for refreshing it.

It was one of the main reasons I started working on this meta-picture approach with Ed. I believe it is central to recovery and therefore what Post-Mo can value-add.

Luna's more in-depth cult research has added more, so I could not be more delighted by what she has and is adding.

Hamar, good to see someone else using the Stages 'process' to shed some light on their experience. I hope it works for the people who use it, and it sure makes them more visible as human beings for me (for one).

One of my objectives was to help avoid the argument "Is it or is it not a cult" (which TBM's will always duck), and anchor this in people's personal experience. That is what it is, and many people have felt abused, so now feel angry. Hopefully marginal readers will identify some of their own disquiet and even sense of violation in what is made visible here, and make their own decision.

BTW, I have no doubt whatsoever it is substantially a cult BTW.

I would encourage others to engage the Stages process, for themselves and for us, who can learn from their experience, and be reminded of forgotten parts of our story.

Daryl