Your Daughter, too, can have a visit from angels just like Joseph Smith!

[silverfox]

I saw articles in the paper regarding the message going out to all young women.

Notice, not much is said about Christ. The message is clear for the young women to be like Joseph.....hmmmm they didn't mention breaking the law like he did, or being dishonest.

For your reading "pleasure" both articles follow:

http://deseretnews.com/dn/print/1,1442,600121620,00.html
LDS young women gather
By Carrie A. Moore
Deseret Morning News
The bicentennial year of LDS Church founder Joseph Smith's birth offers young members a chance to reflect on how his example and teachings can inform and strengthen their own resolve to live righteously.
That's according to leaders of the Young Women's organization of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who spoke Saturday to thousands gathered at the Conference Center and via satellite to thousands more at LDS stake centers worldwide.
President Thomas S. Monson, first counselor in the church's First Presidency, suggested a code of conduct for young women to follow: "You have a heritage; honor it. You will meet temptation; withstand it. You know the truth; live it. You possess a testimony; share it."
Honoring one's heritage includes obedience, honesty, respect for and communication with parents. "Avoid the silent treatment," he urged.
Joseph Smith taught by example how to withstand temptation, knowing that he was responsible to God for his actions. "Do not let your passions destroy your dreams. . . . Wickedness never was happiness," so young people must choose their friends with caution, he said.
Decisions should be made with concern for what young women will think of themselves once the action is taken, rather than what peers will think. Societal permissiveness suggests that many choose sin with seemingly no ill effect. "Don't you believe it! There is a time of reckoning," he said.
Those who know truth must live it, particularly in terms of modest dress. Leaders have noticed a growing tendency for young women to dress immodestly, he said. Acknowledging it can be difficult to find modest clothing, he emphasized that "it is possible and it is important."
Sharing testimony with others can have far-reaching effects, he said, recalling how a store clerk once told him how young women in her neighborhood reached out to her in love and kindness. As a result, she eventually joined the church. "You can reach out and rescue others your age."
Sister Susan W. Tanner, president of the general Young Women, compared Joseph Smith with the Angel Moroni, a heavenly messenger who Latter-day Saints believe tutored his young mortal charge with gospel principles. She and her counselors traveled to Palmyra, N.Y., recently to learn more about the founding of the church, and the audience viewed a video segment of each speaking from sacred sites there, talking about the events that transpired.
Sister Tanner suggested LDS youths can learn much from looking at the lessons learned by the young boy, who became a modern prophet of God. She told of his willingness to share his spiritual experiences with his family, his willingness to be tutored by repetition of true principles and his belief that his prayers would be answered.
Latter-day Saints are also bound by eternal covenants to the Lord, which can be a source of peace and hope when earthly trials, including death of spouse or parents, come to them, she said. "The gospel promises us a rock in the storms and whirlwinds, not an umbrella. . . . We, too, can emerge victorious through trials, wickedness and persecutions."
Sister Julie B. Beck, first counselor in the Young Women presidency, noted Joseph Smith didn't decline the Angel Moroni's declaration that God had a great work for him to do. Likewise, every Latter-day Saint has a role to play in building the kingdom of God on Earth, she said.
As a child, Sister Beck accompanied her parents and family to Brazil, where they lived for five years while her father served as a mission president. At that time, there were only 3,000 members in the country, but when she returned last year for the rededication of the S‹o Paulo temple, she found more than 1 million members there. Such growth has occurred because thousands of members there and around the globe.
"We have a work to do," in daily decisions to live righteously, sharing the gospel with others through service and example."No one shipped the church to us (in Brazil)," she said. "The material to build the church was in the people."
Sister Elaine S. Dalton, second counselor, agreed, saying "Heavenly Father knows you personally — by name," just as he called Joseph Smith by name during what church members know as the First Vision. The way the 14-year-old boy approached God with his questions about faith offer a pattern for young people to follow in accessing help from the heavens.
"Turn to the scriptures, Kneel in prayer. Ask in faith. Listen to the Holy Ghost. . . . Live the gospel with patience and persistence." Such a pattern sustained Joseph Smith through peer pressure and persecution, just as it will for those who persist in seeking to do God's will, she said.
"The Lord strengthened Joseph Smith for his divine mission. He will strengthen you for yours. He may even send His holy angels to tutor you. Now the challenge is this: Will you be in such a place that angels can enter? Will you be still enough to hear? Will you be undaunted and trust?" (my comments - what the hell kind of guilt trip is THIS? Worthy enough to have an angel visit and it's POSSIBLE this will happen????? And if it doesn't it's the girl's fault for not being "worthy" enough?) :Puking


http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2624531
LDS Young Women encouraged to emulate Smith
By Celia R. Baker
The Salt Lake Tribune

Salt Lake Tribune
The life of church founder Joseph Smith formed the theme of a general meeting of the Young Women's organizations of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The meeting of girls age 12 to 18 and their adult women leaders was Saturday at the church's Conference Center in Salt Lake City. A satellite broadcast carried the meeting to gatherings of LDS women around the world.
This year marks the 200th anniversary of Smith's birth in Sharon, Vt., on Dec. 23, 1805. He founded the LDS church in 1830, saying he was directed by heavenly messengers to restore the gospel of Jesus Christ to the earth.
Members of the Young Women's general presidency spoke of Smith's dedication to his beliefs in the face of temptation and persecution, and encouraged the church's teenage girls to follow his example.
Young Women General President Susan W. Tanner reminded listeners that they can receive responses to prayers as Smith did, from a father in heaven who knows them by name.
Julie B. Beck, a counselor in the general presidency, said modern young women should still be engaged in the "marvelous work" that Smith began. She related experiences from her childhood in Brazil, where her father was president of an LDS mission.
"The [LDS] church in Brazil was made from the same material that the pioneers started with," Beck said. "The material to build the church was in the people."
Another counselor in the general presidency, Elaine S. Dalton, spoke of the "intense pressure from peers and adults" Smith endured after he declared he had seen heavenly visions.
"We can apply [Smith's] teachings when we don't know what to do, when we are faced with peer pressure, when we feel surrounded by temptation, or feel unworthy or alone," she said.
The meeting was attended by LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley and his counselors James E. Faust and Thomas S. Monson.
Monson said LDS young women and their leaders "are an example of righteousness in a world which desperately needs your influence and your strength."
He cautioned young women against permissiveness and immodesty, and called for young people of his church to honor their heritage, withstand temptations, live by the truths they know and share their faith with others.

[peter_mary]

I'm currently reading "One Nation Under Gods," (highly recommended), and thus found the following quote especially enjoyable...

Joseph Smith taught by example how to withstand temptation, knowing that he was responsible to God for his actions. "Do not let your passions destroy your dreams. . . . Wickedness never was happiness,"

Considering that most outsiders are virtually in universal agreement that Joseph absolutely caved to temptations of the flesh when he instituted the law of polygamy, as well as when he demanded his saints build him a house, when he appointed himself Lieutenant General, etc. etc., it is interesting to see how mythical the modern Church has created him. The Joseph of whom they speak is not the Joseph who wance lived and breathed. One was absolutely a creature of the flesh, the other is nothing more than a fantasy of the collective LDS mind.

Myth-making at its finest.

Happy Easter, all!

Peter_Mary

[Born Free]

Silverfox,

You slipped up! This thread should come with a warning that adults readers may experience billous reactions to the content, with an accompanying warning to have a sick bag handy. :Puking

This is a perfect example of the manipulative crap Moism feeds people to maintain them in Stage 1 - mind numbing, fear inducing, historically fraudalent, guilt manipulating, elitist, separatist twaddle at its worst. See:
http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?p=3882#post3882

Any volunteering to do a sentence by sentence deconstruction of how this drivel works to maintain good mindless little Mos?

Daryl

[silverfox]

Has anyone male or female been led to believe as a member that it's possible an angel could visit you?

I have to say I have never heard this persuasion tactic before. This one is new to me.

And what would the church leaders say if a young woman :eek: came to them and informed them she had been visited by an angel?

They'd probably call her into a court of luv.

[free thinker]

Hmmm. A visit from an angel who never existed outside the imagination of Joseph Smith. Well now that would be interesting.

Joseph Smith as a paragon of self control? Never has there been a man so given to his sexual passion. He had a least 10 women between the age of 14 and 28, as wives. Yes indeed, a model of what every good and decent latter day saint youth should be!!
I dont think he was too concerned about the moral probity of Fanny Alger. She was sixteen when he married her. Oh, and seems he forgot to tell Emma about it!! :(


Those young people who are hearing this deserve so much more!! Maybe they should begin by telling them THE TRUTH!!! Nah!! Let's just guilt them into submission. Some of these youth will read the truth someday. When they do, they are going to be mad as hell!!

Free Thinker

[dogzilla]

Cheese and crackers! It's been 20 years since I was a teenager and girls are still dressing like whores of Babylon? When WILL they ever learn?

I was always struck by the constant reminders to dress modestly. Because, God forbid, should anyone ever see a shoulder or kneecap, we might all fall to the ground in evil hormonal ecstasy. And then I'd look around and all the other girls were covered from kneecaps to elbows, just like me. So, who are they talking to? The slut in the corner with the fishnet stockings?

:Puking

[Born Free]

Cheese and crackers! It's been 20 years since I was a teenager and girls are still dressing like whores of Babylon? When WILL they ever learn?

I was always struck by the constant reminders to dress modestly. Because, God forbid, should anyone ever see a shoulder or kneecap, we might all fall to the ground in evil hormonal ecstasy. And then I'd look around and all the other girls were covered from kneecaps to elbows, just like me. So, who are they talking to? The slut in the corner with the fishnet stockings?

:Puking
dogzilla,

You missed ths subscript. Even though you (females) are 2nd class citizens, your bodies drive men crazy, so must be kept covered, not quite with a burka, but not far short. It is you evil (apple-eating) creatures that prevent or slow us men from achieving our God-like potential.

It is part of sending the message that men are not really responsible for their sexuality.

Aside: You know I often wonder whether this mindset is the shadow of polygamy, and Joseph Smith excesses! :cool:

Daryl

PS: I missed the slut in the stockings! What was I doing to miss her? Black stockings...... got to love the black ones. Suspenders? Was she wearing suspenders?

Where is the sl..............?

[silverfox]

dogzilla,

You missed ths subscript. Even though you (females) are 2nd class citizens, your bodies drive men crazy, so must be kept covered, not quite with a burka, but not far short. It is you evil (apple-eating) creatures that prevent or slow us men from achieving our God-like potential.

It is part of sending the message that men are not really responsible for their sexuality.

Aside: You know I often wonder whether this mindset is the shadow of polygamy, and Joseph Smith excesses! :cool:

Daryl

PS: I missed the slut in the stockings! What was I doing to miss her? Black stockings...... got to love the black ones. Suspenders? Was she wearing suspenders?

Where is the sl..............?

heeeeeeeeeee :D

[peter_mary]

Aside: You know I often wonder whether this mindset is the shadow of polygamy, and Joseph Smith excesses! :cool:

Daryl



This is an interesting, and likely plausible hypothesis. Sort of along the lines of the hyper zealous activist against [name the cause], only to find that they themselves harbor some deeply seated insecurities about the very same thing. For instance, St. Augustine was a genuine mysogynist in his writings, but when you read of his personal life, you come to understand that he was a womanizer. Remember Jimmy Swaggart (charismatic Television evangelist from the 80's here in the States)? He was ALL about the evils of the world, sin and salvation, and resisting the temptations of the flesh--only to be caught and arrested soliciting the services of prostitute.

And in a similar, though more normal vein, I thought it was fascinating to read what Andy said in one of the Exiting Mormonism Threads of Daryls:

I employed the classic defenses to preserve my sanity:

1. I took up a virulent hatred of gays. They all of a sudden made me "sick", and we needed to get rid of them! (I was pretty tolerant before this gay awareness)

In other words, we often over-compensate on the outside for the greatest insecurity we feel on the inside.

I have to say, I wonder if Daryl isn't exactly right when he asks if Mormon hyper-avoidance of "immodest dress" among young girls is an overreaction to Joseph's early polygamy days? Is that puritan response an overcompensation for the insecurity they feel over the overt sexuality of the early Church? Could be...

Of course, the irony is that few people are more OBSESSED with breasts and bottoms than are Mormons. By drawing so much attention to how to properly cover them up, it pretty much guarantees that people are paying a LOT of attention to them.

It reminds me of a statement I heard by an Afghani man shortly after the "liberation" of Kabul, when women started being a little "careless" about covering up. He said, "Today I saw a woman's wrist, and it was almost more than I could stand. It's too dangerous for women to expose themselves that much." A wrist? :Crazy:

But then I remembered the raging debate a few years ago on the BYU campus when girls were wearing those little purses which had long straps that they wore crossing their chests. The student paper went on and on in a long debate in the letters over the inappropriatness of those purses because "they divided and thereby drew attention to their breasts." And that, apparently, is something you just don't want to do at BYU! Wrists, purse straps, I guess they're all the same in cultures that are so incredibly sexually repressed that they become sexually obsessed.

Peter_Mary

[free thinker]

This is an interesting, and likely plausible hypothesis. Sort of along the lines of the hyper zealous activist against [name the cause], only to find that they themselves harbor some deeply seated insecurities about the very same thing. For instance, St. Augustine was a genuine mysogynist in his writings, but when you read of his personal life, you come to understand that he was a womanizer. Remember Jimmy Swaggart (charismatic Television evangelist from the 80's here in the States)? He was ALL about the evils of the world, sin and salvation, and resisting the temptations of the flesh--only to be caught and arrested soliciting the services of prostitute.

And in a similar, though more normal vein, I thought it was fascinating to read what Andy said in one of the Exiting Mormonism Threads of Daryls:



In other words, we often over-compensate on the outside for the greatest insecurity we feel on the inside.

I have to say, I wonder if Daryl isn't exactly right when he asks if Mormon hyper-avoidance of "immodest dress" among young girls is an overreaction to Joseph's early polygamy days? Is that puritan response an overcompensation for the insecurity they feel over the overt sexuality of the early Church? Could be...

Of course, the irony is that few people are more OBSESSED with breasts and bottoms than are Mormons. By drawing so much attention to how to properly cover them up, it pretty much guarantees that people are paying a LOT of attention to them.

It reminds me of a statement I heard by an Afghani man shortly after the "liberation" of Kabul, when women started being a little "careless" about covering up. He said, "Today I saw a woman's wrist, and it was almost more than I could stand. It's too dangerous for women to expose themselves that much." A wrist? :Crazy:

But then I remembered the raging debate a few years ago on the BYU campus when girls were wearing those little purses which had long straps that they wore crossing their chests. The student paper went on and on in a long debate in the letters over the inappropriatness of those purses because "they divided and thereby drew attention to their breasts." And that, apparently, is something you just don't want to do at BYU! Wrists, purse straps, I guess they're all the same in cultures that are so incredibly sexually repressed that they become sexually obsessed.

Peter_Mary

PM I totally agree with your assessment. The more you try to repress sexuality, the more it asserts itself. Just like telling a kid he can't have a candy bar. That candy bar becomes an obsession for him.

The whole purse strap thing is so typical of the kind of rigidity you find in a social setting like BYU. A place where a certain Victorian attitude settles in. Interesting that the straps were "dividing the breasts" . I kinda like that idea. Divide and conquer!! :D Just havin a little fun!!

Shakespeare said it best. I can only paraphrase as I am semi-literate. " Me thinks thou doth protest too much".

Free Thinker

[Born Free]

PM I totally agree with your assessment. The more you try to repress sexuality, the more it asserts itself. Just like telling a kid he can't have a candy bar. That candy bar becomes an obsession for him.

The whole purse strap thing is so typical of the kind of rigidity you find in a social setting like BYU. A place where a certain Victorian attitude settles in. Interesting that the straps were "dividing the breasts" . I kinda like that idea. Divide and conquer!! :D Just havin a little fun!!

Shakespeare said it best. I can only paraphrase as I am semi-literate. " Me thinks thou doth protest too much".

Free Thinker
I recall a stage during my delightsome Mo past, I must have been about 19, when in Brisbane Stake (Qld, Oz) the young men were banned from being spectators at your women's basketball and volleyball.

I look back and laugh. What sexually repressed misfit dreams this s#it up? 11/10 on the pervert scale.

In the real world any one proposing such a rash move should have been sent for psychiatric assessment.

Daryl

PS: Just saw a new business opportunity - selling ring side seats for repressed Afghani males at YW sporting events. Guys would probably have spontaneous emissions, what with all that upper thigh on display, and no one be the wiser. (God, I'm a sick puppy. Must get help!!!)

[miss taken]

Has anyone male or female been led to believe as a member that it's possible an angel could visit you?

I have to say I have never heard this persuasion tactic before. This one is new to me.

And what would the church leaders say if a young woman :eek: came to them and informed them she had been visited by an angel?

They'd probably call her into a court of luv.

Silverfox, I havn't read right through this thread, but thought you might be interested in some of the things I gleaned whilst in the States. The family I was staying with were direct descendents of John Taylor. He kept journals - which included the 'doctrine' that we 'all' had 'guardian' angels. The family I was staying with loved this aspect of his writings and could not understand why it was not being taught.
Mary

[dogzilla]

PM I totally agree with your assessment. The more you try to repress sexuality, the more it asserts itself. Just like telling a kid he can't have a candy bar. That candy bar becomes an obsession for him.

Free Thinker

For the record, I think you guys are saying the same thing; just looking at it from different directions.

[silverfox]

Silverfox, I havn't read right through this thread, but thought you might be interested in some of the things I gleaned whilst in the States. The family I was staying with were direct descendents of John Taylor. He kept journals - which included the 'doctrine' that we 'all' had 'guardian' angels. The family I was staying with loved this aspect of his writings and could not understand why it was not being taught.
Mary

So it appears this MAY be a new tactic.......making young women believe they can receive a heavenly visit from an angel JUST LIKE JOSEPH did!

I am NOT undermining anyone's ability to receive heavenly visitors....I mean, if it can happen to Joe (if you believe it did, I don't) then it CAN happen to anyone.

However to use this as a tactic to persuade girls to "obey" is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

I am also surprised this is being taught to GIRLS and not priesthood holders or the young male population? (or maybe they have heard it all, too) Or do the girls need it more because the church worries too much about how they dress? So this is a desparate attempt to get them to obey?

I just find it very odd. And it makes me VERY happy my youngest daughters are out of that crap.

[flotsam]

Considering that most outsiders are virtually in universal agreement that Joseph absolutely caved to temptations of the flesh when he instituted the law of polygamy, as well as when he demanded his saints build him a house, when he appointed himself Lieutenant General, etc. etc., it is interesting to see how mythical the modern Church has created him. The Joseph of whom they speak is not the Joseph who wance lived and breathed. One was absolutely a creature of the flesh, the other is nothing more than a fantasy of the collective LDS mind.

Myth-making at its finest.

Peter_Mary

Interestingly I just read a little essay in the women's issue of dialogue (when ARE we emascualted Mormon men going to get our own issue?) where Lavina Fielding Anderson was compared to Joan of Arc. Remember Lavina is one of the September Six for her publication of instances of ecclesiastical abuse. It was quite the adulatory article. I could tell from the context that Lavina herself was quite embarassed about the whole thing, but still, Dialogue was willing to publish the article.

Goes to show, I guess, that even the liberals like their myths. Hmm. Makes me wonder who I mythologize?

[Born Free]

So it appears this MAY be a new tactic.......making young women believe they can receive a heavenly visit from an angel JUST LIKE JOSEPH did!

I am NOT undermining anyone's ability to receive heavenly visitors....I mean, if it can happen to Joe (if you believe it did, I don't) then it CAN happen to anyone.

However to use this as a tactic to persuade girls to "obey" is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

I am also surprised this is being taught to GIRLS and not priesthood holders or the young male population? (or maybe they have heard it all, too) Or do the girls need it more because the church worries too much about how they dress? So this is a desparate attempt to get them to obey?

I just find it very odd. And it makes me VERY happy my youngest daughters are out of that crap.

Maybe this is Moism's best attempt at equal opportunity!

[silverfox]

Maybe this is Moism's best attempt at equal opportunity!

You made me spit my water on my keyboard! :D Too funny!