Joseph's Narcissism

[peter_mary]

I ran across a couple of quotes from Joseph Smith that were just too good not to post. Those who are familiar with early Church history will no doubt be familiar with these, but they might be eye-openers for some folks.

These are all from History of the Church, Vol. 6

"I combat the errors of the ages;...I solve mathemtatical problems of universities, with truth--diamond truth; and God is my right hand man." [1843]

"God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be a god to you in His stead." [1844]

"I have more to boast of than ever any man had...I boast that no man ever did such a work as I." [1844]

We often speak of his penchant for the ladies, or his love of the military, his charisma, his power and control issues, but ultimately, I expect that when the final analysis is done on Joseph Smith Jr. what we will finally observe is nothing more than a classic narcisistic personality disorder coupled with a whole clot of really gullible people who lacked the sophistication to understand him for what he was. The question is, what's the excuse for not understanding him TODAY?

Peter_Mary

[silverfox]

I ran across a couple of quotes from Joseph Smith that were just too good not to post. Those who are familiar with early Church history will no doubt be familiar with these, but they might be eye-openers for some folks.

These are all from History of the Church, Vol. 6

"I combat the errors of the ages;...I solve mathemtatical problems of universities, with truth--diamond truth; and God is my right hand man." [1843]

"God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be a god to you in His stead." [1844]

"I have more to boast of than ever any man had...I boast that no man ever did such a work as I." [1844]

We often speak of his penchant for the ladies, or his love of the military, his charisma, his power and control issues, but ultimately, I expect that when the final analysis is done on Joseph Smith Jr. what we will finally observe is nothing more than a classic narcisistic personality disorder coupled with a whole clot of really gullible people who lacked the sophistication to understand him for what he was. The question is, what's the excuse for not understanding him TODAY?

Peter_Mary

It's no wonder so many people wanted to kick his a$$.

[free thinker]

I ran across a couple of quotes from Joseph Smith that were just too good not to post. Those who are familiar with early Church history will no doubt be familiar with these, but they might be eye-openers for some folks.

These are all from History of the Church, Vol. 6

"I combat the errors of the ages;...I solve mathemtatical problems of universities, with truth--diamond truth; and God is my right hand man." [1843]

"God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be a god to you in His stead." [1844]

"I have more to boast of than ever any man had...I boast that no man ever did such a work as I." [1844]

We often speak of his penchant for the ladies, or his love of the military, his charisma, his power and control issues, but ultimately, I expect that when the final analysis is done on Joseph Smith Jr. what we will finally observe is nothing more than a classic narcisistic personality disorder coupled with a whole clot of really gullible people who lacked the sophistication to understand him for what he was. The question is, what's the excuse for not understanding him TODAY?

Peter_Mary

Yup that's ole smokin Joe Smith!! Husband, minister. religion founder,polygamist.

Here are some other things he did , but did not boast of!!

Losing large amounts of other people's money in a bank fraud!

Married teenage girls without telling his wife.

Created fraudulent religious cannon under the guise of translating by the gift and power of god!!

Yup ole smokin Joe Smith!!

That boy was a wild one!!!!


Free Thinker

[Born Free]

I ran across a couple of quotes from Joseph Smith that were just too good not to post. Those who are familiar with early Church history will no doubt be familiar with these, but they might be eye-openers for some folks.

These are all from History of the Church, Vol. 6

"I combat the errors of the ages;...I solve mathemtatical problems of universities, with truth--diamond truth; and God is my right hand man." [1843]

"God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be a god to you in His stead." [1844]

"I have more to boast of than ever any man had...I boast that no man ever did such a work as I." [1844]

We often speak of his penchant for the ladies, or his love of the military, his charisma, his power and control issues, but ultimately, I expect that when the final analysis is done on Joseph Smith Jr. what we will finally observe is nothing more than a classic narcisistic personality disorder coupled with a whole clot of really gullible people who lacked the sophistication to understand him for what he was. The question is, what's the excuse for not understanding him TODAY?

Peter_Mary

Peter_Mary,

I have read the reviews of Inside the Mind Of Joseph Smtih, but have never read the book.

It appears to offer a quite credible psychological explanation for his mental state. The review reads:

"The challenge [presented to us as we were training for our missions] was, simply, to find an alternate explanation to the supernatural origin of the Book of Mormon. As a sincere and earnest young missionary, I was sure that such an explanation could not be found. I now feel differently and have, in fact, tried to articulate such an alternate explanation in the pages that follow." (Preface, first paragraph)

"In this book, I will argue that Joseph Smith, both knowingly and unknowingly, injected his own personality, conflicts, and solutions into the book he was dictating. Thus I hypothesize that the Book of Mormon can be understood as Smith's autobiography, that we can discern repeated psychological patterns in Smith's transformation of his childhood and youth before 1829 into Book of Mormon stories, and that these observations can contribute to a psychological understanding of Smith." (Introduction, xxvii)

"In these Book of Mormon stories, the heroes are Joseph Smith's alter egos; other people from his real life are diminished or presented as evil. I hypothesize that Smith's motive is to gain power over people and reverse his childhood helplessness, particularly during his surgery." (p. 65)

The above is an extract from a review at:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/josephsmithmind.shtml

Have any of you read this book, and what was your take?

I am reminded of Anthony Storr's book Feet of Clay - A Study of Gurus. JS meets many of the criteria described there, and his genius/flaws can be under-appreciated until you have seen him compared with the likes of Jim Jones, and David Koresh.

I am with Peter_Mary on this regarding the narcissism, which can be sourced to the acutely painful operations of his childhood. I have had close dealings with three classic NPDs, and their seductiveness has to be experienced to be appreciated. Talk about screw with your head!

That said, one of the best jokes I ever heard came from one of these three. It goes:

Guy goes into a library, and approaches the librarian. He says:

"Excuse me. Do you have a book on suicide?"
The librarian looks up over his glasses, then after a considered pause replies:

"No f#ck off. You won't return it!"
Daryl

PS: I might have a sick mind. But I kept breaking out in laughter a week after hearing that joke!

[noodle]

Peter_Mary,

I have read the reviews of Inside the Mind Of Joseph Smtih, but have never read the book.

It appears to offer a quite credible psychological explanation for his mental state. The review reads:

"The challenge [presented to us as we were training for our missions] was, simply, to find an alternate explanation to the supernatural origin of the Book of Mormon. As a sincere and earnest young missionary, I was sure that such an explanation could not be found. I now feel differently and have, in fact, tried to articulate such an alternate explanation in the pages that follow." (Preface, first paragraph)

"In this book, I will argue that Joseph Smith, both knowingly and unknowingly, injected his own personality, conflicts, and solutions into the book he was dictating. Thus I hypothesize that the Book of Mormon can be understood as Smith's autobiography, that we can discern repeated psychological patterns in Smith's transformation of his childhood and youth before 1829 into Book of Mormon stories, and that these observations can contribute to a psychological understanding of Smith." (Introduction, xxvii)

"In these Book of Mormon stories, the heroes are Joseph Smith's alter egos; other people from his real life are diminished or presented as evil. I hypothesize that Smith's motive is to gain power over people and reverse his childhood helplessness, particularly during his surgery." (p. 65)

The above is an extract from a review at:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/josephsmithmind.shtml

Have any of you read this book, and what was your take?

Daryl

PS: I might have a sick mind. But I kept breaking out in laughter a week after hearing that joke!

I read it several years ago, and I would say that the review you quote nicely summarizes it. It was intriguing to read a psychiatrist's take on JS (by a former member), and I loved that it validated some thoughts that I had had about the church's prophet, seer, psychic. :eek:

[flotsam]

I expect that when the final analysis is done on Joseph Smith Jr. what we will finally observe is nothing more than a classic narcisistic personality disorder coupled with a whole clot of really gullible people who lacked the sophistication to understand him for what he was. The question is, what's the excuse for not understanding him TODAY?

Peter_Mary

Peter_Mary,

I think when the final analysis is done we'll find quite a complicated personality that can be richly interpreted from a number of different viewpoints. That's probably what makes Joe the focus of so much activity - religious, scholarly, otherwise - he's so big and so complicated that he can stand tremendous scrutiny and still not be completely figured out.

Much like Martin Luther King Jr. I expect, or Winston Churchill, or Thomas Jefferson, or Hitler, or Lenin. Or any other huge, earth shaking people. They aren't saints; they're just plain huge. Which is their power.

Geez, Peter_Mary, you always do this to me. You shove me right back into those huge questions. Like: is there a truth, and if there is one, can it be recognized? Right now you're making me wonder: was the universe Joseph Smithing 200 years ago? Or was Joseph Smith making his own universe? Or were they both doing their own thing at the same time? And can we place a value on any of that?

if I can't sleep tonight it's your fault.

[dogzilla]

...but ultimately, I expect that when the final analysis is done on Joseph Smith Jr. what we will finally observe is nothing more than a classic narcisistic personality disorder coupled with a whole clot of really gullible people who lacked the sophistication to understand him for what he was. The question is, what's the excuse for not understanding him TODAY?

Peter_Mary

To quote Tommy Jones in Men In Black:

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky animals, and you know it. The average person believes he's got a good bead on things..."

It's much safer for your average sheeple to accept and follow without question. That way, your religious structure remains intact and you don't have to think too hard.

I've learned in my life that there's a very small minority on this planet who enjoy thinking. The rest of the sheeple prefer to meekly do what they're told and will blindly follow any authority presented to them.

Just take a road trip with a dozen random people you've never met before. (I did this recently.) Let me know who steps up to lead when it's dinner time and nobody appears to want to make the decisions about where to go, or what to see and do. You could waste away to nothing waiting on a decision to be made.

I'm the kind of person who absolutely cannot stand sitting still and watching people mindlessly bump into each other like pinballs. I have to step in and start telling people what to do, and give everyone a specific direction to go in. I never fail to be amazed when they actually seem grateful to have someone to take orders from. The non-thinkers always look for a leader; they want to be led because thinking for themselves seems too difficult. I'm happy to oblige... :o