Chrysallis!!!

[free thinker]

I just read, in the letter section that has recently been added, the comments of the gentleman who believes that the answer to the DNA challenge is that God completely changed the DNA of the lamanites as part of the curse set upon them. I realize now that the level of cognitive dissonance in play for all true believers is going to produce some interesting variations. To me it is so completetly absurd, that it just kinda makes me sad. :( Never the less I am glad to be thinking for myself now. :) I can only hope that somehow others might be able to see aroung the dogmatic corner.

I am realizing more and more now that the cocoon analogy is quite accurate. Once you are out, it looks like a very small space!!

Paul



Paul

[silverfox]

I am realizing more and more now that the cocoon analogy is quite accurate. Once you are out, it looks like a very small space!!

Paul



Paul

A very small space, indeed, especially when you spread those big ol' wings and fly far away from it. Freedom is priceless.

[peter_mary]

I just read, in the letter section that has recently been added, the comments of the gentleman who believes that the answer to the DNA challenge is that God completely changed the DNA of the lamanites as part of the curse set upon them. I realize now that the level of cognitive dissonance in play for all true believers is going to produce some interesting variations. To me it is so completetly absurd, that it just kinda makes me sad. :(

I read that too, and was stunned. However, on reflection I remembered that this line of reasoning is consistent with other features of Mormon-think. It is also common to claim that we are all, remarkably, of the house of Ephraim, son of Joseph, by "adoption," as probably all of our Patriarchal blessings confirm. But many is the Gospel Doctrine teacher or Seminary/Institute instructor who will claim that we are more than adopted into the house of Israel...our blood literally changes, and we are then literally of the house of Israel. I know, speaking for myself, my skin got darker, my hair got blacker and curlier, and I suddenly found myself with an unexplainable interest in growing a long beard, wearing a black hat and a frightening disdain for Palestinians immediately upon coming up out of the waters of baptism... :)

Interesting that Ocam's Razor is never applied when it comes time to make sense out of evidence/faith contradictions, and this poor gentleman from Logan simply is trying to make sense out of the insensible. The more evidence that is produced that contradicts the BOM, the more folks, like those at FARMS (especially those at FARMS) will have to come up with incredible tales to tell in order to make the pieces fit.

But it gets worse. I have heard that last month's Ensign had a long article about Joseph Smith (rehashing the old hash, so to speak). What's different about this article, however, is the acknowledgement in it that there are multiple versions of the First Vision. What's tragic is that, as expected, they quickly brush them under the rug with a "possible" explaination, not the one that Ocam would have posited, but one that leaves the general Church membership assured that the Church "knows all about it and has dealt with the problems. It's all okay, everyone, go back to sleep..." This is a crafty move on the part of the Church, to slowly introduce these kinds of "problems," but couched deep within their own rationalizations that assure the sheep of the Church that all is still well in Zion and that Big Daddy Church has everything under control. In time, these kinds of "problems" won't even raise an eyebrow in Sunday School because everyone will have heard about them and memorized the pat answers that the Church feeds them, and "Presto!" no more problems! It can even become "faith promoting," like the story of Martin Harris losing the first 116 pages of the BOM, and Joseph cunningly responding that he was told not retranslate, because OTHER people would change his original and catch him in a lie. Actually, full credit for Joseph's brilliant move, but unfortunately for the membership, he turned what should have been a damning bit of proof into a faith-promoting story that we tell with pride. (For a very funny and thought provoking look at this particular issue, see the South Park Episode about Joseph Smith...VERY funny!)

Yes, Freethinker, it is good to be able to think for one's self...

Paul

[nikki]

I read that too, and was stunned. However, on reflection I remembered that this line of reasoning is consistent with other features of Mormon-think. It is also common to claim that we are all, remarkably, of the house of Ephraim, son of Joseph, by "adoption," as probably all of our Patriarchal blessings confirm. But many is the Gospel Doctrine teacher or Seminary/Institute instructor who will claim that we are more than adopted into the house of Israel...our blood literally changes, and we are then literally of the house of Israel. I know, speaking for myself, my skin got darker, my hair got blacker and curlier, and I suddenly found myself with an unexplainable interest in growing a long beard, wearing a black hat and a frightening disdain for Palestinians immediately upon coming up out of the waters of baptism... :)

Interesting that Ocam's Razor is never applied when it comes time to make sense out of evidence/faith contradictions, and this poor gentleman from Logan simply is trying to make sense out of the insensible. The more evidence that is produced that contradicts the BOM, the more folks, like those at FARMS (especially those at FARMS) will have to come up with incredible tales to tell in order to make the pieces fit.

But it gets worse. I have heard that last month's Ensign had a long article about Joseph Smith (rehashing the old hash, so to speak). What's different about this article, however, is the acknowledgement in it that there are multiple versions of the First Vision. What's tragic is that, as expected, they quickly brush them under the rug with a "possible" explaination, not the one that Ocam would have posited, but one that leaves the general Church membership assured that the Church "knows all about it and has dealt with the problems. It's all okay, everyone, go back to sleep..." This is a crafty move on the part of the Church, to slowly introduce these kinds of "problems," but couched deep within their own rationalizations that assure the sheep of the Church that all is still well in Zion and that Big Daddy Church has everything under control. In time, these kinds of "problems" won't even raise an eyebrow in Sunday School because everyone will have heard about them and memorized the pat answers that the Church feeds them, and "Presto!" no more problems! It can even become "faith promoting," like the story of Martin Harris losing the first 116 pages of the BOM, and Joseph cunningly responding that he was told not retranslate, because OTHER people would change his original and catch him in a lie. Actually, full credit for Joseph's brilliant move, but unfortunately for the membership, he turned what should have been a damning bit of proof into a faith-promoting story that we tell with pride. (For a very funny and thought provoking look at this particular issue, see the South Park Episode about Joseph Smith...VERY funny!)

Yes, Freethinker, it is good to be able to think for one's self...

Paul

Paul would you be willing to share the South Park Episode which featured Jospeh Smith? My son is interested in purchasing it.

I was looking at the Ex-Mo site, there was a posting of another revised photo of Joseph Smith. It is interesting to see even the photo images cannot stay the same!
Better yet, it would very interesting to seeing a site showing all the different 'faces' of Jospeh Smith through time!

The LDS family I married into was great in making 'revised' history to cover up misdeeds, and thought nothing of waging a war of all out character assasinaion against anyone who dared to differ or go against their revisions. So, it must be part of the LDS culture and thought to deny, deny, and revise. There logic often left me :rolleyes:

I am glad to be away from them, just wish we were all the way, but we are kept under thumb. :( Must know something which would be very damaging, they want me underwraps.

The nice thing is, in bookstores and on the internet, one can find many good resources about cult and mind control which is helpful when braking free, and yes one will even find, that 'revised' history is part of cult control.

The other amazing event, is another 'change', almost like a miracle, the dawn of a new day arises, and ones eyes are opened! And all it takes is a little bit of reading!!!

On the serious side however, evidence/faith are not usually linked when people have a 'belief' in something. It is important to remember this if one wishes to have an impact on others. It may be necessary to see what is 'tied' to the faith, example: Family, conversion by a friend, loss of family, family pressure, brainwashing etc.
I just figure some are braindead. :)


Nikki (hickcup) Nikki (lol)
(I am making fun of my nutty family (and ex), one called saying I was going to bars and was running around telling all the churchies, I do not even drink!!! Boy, oh, Boy what they do to try to destroy someone!)

[peter_mary]

Paul would you be willing to share the South Park Episode which featured Jospeh Smith? My son is interested in purchasing it.

The best I can do is tell you what I found on the net with a quick search. It is episode 108, Production code 712 (although many people will refer to it as episode 712) and is entitled "All About the Mormons." It first aired on November 19, 2003 (my Birthday! I was so honored!) I believe it was season 7. At one time, my boys had downloaded it off the internet, probably through Kazaa or something, but with the crackdown on file sharing of copywrited material, I made them get rid of all that kind of stuff...and unknowingly that included this particular episode of South Park.

It may still be available to those who are more net savy than I and know how to find and download these kinds of things. Otherwise, you may have to just see if Season 7 (the 2003 season) is available for purchase. It is SO worth it, however!

Paul

[nikki]

The best I can do is tell you what I found on the net with a quick search. It is episode 108, Production code 712 (although many people will refer to it as episode 712) and is entitled "All About the Mormons." It first aired on November 19, 2003 (my Birthday! I was so honored!) I believe it was season 7. At one time, my boys had downloaded it off the internet, probably through Kazaa or something, but with the crackdown on file sharing of copywrited material, I made them get rid of all that kind of stuff...and unknowingly that included this particular episode of South Park.

It may still be available to those who are more net savy than I and know how to find and download these kinds of things. Otherwise, you may have to just see if Season 7 (the 2003 season) is available for purchase. It is SO worth it, however!

Paul

Thank you Paul,

We might just do it the old fashion way, and purchase it!

I am still learning the computer, and not real savvy right now at it. Gone the days of electric typewriters!!

Humor, I find is always helpful and healthy, and I am sure we will enjoy the episode. Mom just might break down and watch "South Park"!

Again Thank you Paul for the inforamtion.