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View Full Version : Infobases destroyed my testimony


helemon
26th April 2005, 01:35 AM
Ok since everyone is telling a bit about themselves I will explain my background.

I was raised in the church in Utah. Member of active family of pioneer heritage. Normal childhood. No major traumas or life altering events. Went on a mission. Married in the temple.

I went through the temple the first time when the penalties were still used. When I returned from my mission they had been removed. I thought such a change was strange but I don't think it really damaged my testimony.

My transition out of the church started after getting married. It was then that I began to doubt the divinity of polygamy. I began to realize how unfair such a realtionship would be for a woman. Also my wife is a convert. Because of this fact neither of her parents were able to attend her wedding and none of her close friends. This also did not sit well with me. I couldn't understand why the church couldn't develop a ceremony that preserved the sacredness while allowing non-members to join in the celebration.

During my senior year in college I bought a computer that allowed me to access the internet. It was there that I first encountered mormon newsgroups. These presented me with viewpoints other than those that I heard at church. Around that same time I also purchased InfoBases. I purchased the software with the intent of following the advice of church leaders to study the history and teachings of church leaders. The ability to have so many church texts on a set of cds was amazing. I thoroughly enjoyed being able to search this vast library on various topics and review in seconds what various leaders had to say on the topic. However the more I studied the more I discovered information that the church never told me about. I found BY's statements about blacks and the priesthood which did not make sense to me either logically since it would be impossible to know by looking at someone if they had an ancestor of african descent somewhere between Ham and today, or spiritually based on the vision of Peter. I read MEP's statements in the Way to Perfrection about blacks and was disturbed by his racist attitude. I read the off the wall statements by JFP about life on the sun and other wild statements about cosmology. I read about JSS's vision that was identical to the one Lehi had. I read about JSJ stealing my ancestors girlfriend while he was on a mission. I read about the seer stones and the Kinderhook plates. And numerous other things that I was never aware of before and was never told about through official church outlet. This information shook my testimony to the core. I also started to read the BoM with a more critical eye. I puzzled over the lack of native american flora and fauna and the lack of old world agriculture that was reported to have grown exceedingly well. I wondered how such a small group could build a ship to carry them to the America's. The length of time it reportedly took to get to the Americas didn't seem reasonable to me.

When I brought up these concerns with church leaders or family members no one was able to provide me with an adequate explanation. The only answer was to ignore these problems and forgive the leaders for their past faults. But to me it seemed like the church was picking and choosing which teachings to follow and which to ignore. For me, someone who had been raised being taught and believing that these men were God's representatives on earth, who had been told in the temple that true prophets do not mingle the philosophies of men with scripture, these discoveries were not something I could easily shrug off. Since then I have been basically inactive. While I have been open with my family about my doctrinal concerns about the church I have not formally removed my name. This is primarily out of a desire not to hurt my parents, but I think it is something I should do.

My wife who has never had a strong testimony of the church still attends and takes our kids to the mormon church. She does it because her mom, who converted after we were married, is still active and needs help getting to church. She attends because she says that much of what the church teaches is similar to what is taught in other christian churches and she feels the most comfortable at the mormon church. She wants to have the kids baptized Mormon so that they will at least be baptized somewhere. She says she is able to deal with the problems of the church and enjoy the things that are good such as the strong social programs and activities and the basic Christian morals. As a "priesthood holder" with all the attendant responsibilities and expectations, I didn't feel like I could attend without believing the whole story. Even though neither of us beleive the church is "true", my problems with the church are still a sore spot in our marriage. I think she wishes we could return to the blissful ignorance stage.

why me
26th April 2005, 02:51 AM
I could understand your 'problem' with the web. I began to use the web for church information in January and I got a load full of information. (Maybe too much) It can have quite an impact on the mindset. However, I want say a couple of things about you and your wife. This may sound strange but I would recommend that this problem that you have with the church should stay out of your home life (but is it possible?), if it is causing arguments etc. It can cause such terrible arguments and mis- understandings between two people that the damage can be long lasting. My opinion has always been to respect people for who they are and let them live according to their beliefs and faith. In this case if you pressure your wife into your own belief system it can be very harmful. Of course, you being a priesthood holder can be reminded by your wife what is expected of you etc. This could be a problem. At least it was with my ex-wife. I think that communication is what is important with the constructive (love) expression of feelings. Of course your wife is perhaps sad about your state of less activity but...keep the love and understanding alive... :) And as far as the children are concerned...my girls have benefited from church activity but I will need to watch them closely, if life just doesn't turn out for them according to church principles. Sometimes our life puzzles can have pieces missing...if you know what I mean. Thank you for sharing a part of your life and please forgive the advice...it is meant in a kind way...

helemon
26th April 2005, 07:48 AM
This may sound strange but I would recommend that this problem that you have with the church should stay out of your home life (but is it possible?), if it is causing arguments etc. It can cause such terrible arguments and mis- understandings between two people that the damage can be long lasting. My opinion has always been to respect people for who they are and let them live according to their beliefs and faith. In this case if you pressure your wife into your own belief system it can be very harmful.

I do not pressure her. I think my issue is that she doesn't believe it is true but goes because our relatives believe it is true and she doesn't want to upset them. So this is not a question of forcing my beliefs on her. My concern for my daughters is I don't want them asking me later why didn't you tell me the church wasn't true? Are we setting them up for a fall? Why would I want them to experience the pain I felt and so many here felt when they begin to see the larger picture? My wife worries that they will grow up and marry in the temple and we wont be able to attend, but she still keeps going.

why me
27th April 2005, 03:04 AM
I do not pressure her. I think my issue is that she doesn't believe it is true but goes because our relatives believe it is true and she doesn't want to upset them. So this is not a question of forcing my beliefs on her. My concern for my daughters is I don't want them asking me later why didn't you tell me the church wasn't true? Are we setting them up for a fall? Why would I want them to experience the pain I felt and so many here felt when they begin to see the larger picture? My wife worries that they will grow up and marry in the temple and we wont be able to attend, but she still keeps going.



I think that your daughters will come to their own decisions about the church. My own daughters are TBM but I never thought about your concerns. Whether the church is true or not is always up to the individual to decide. I cannot say if the church is true or not. It all depends on faith and testimony. The same will be true for your daughters. Personally, I have never tried to influence their belief system. They believe and at the moment it is working for them. And I don't see it as a bad thing. If they become inactive I will need to talk to them about their feelings and reasons and help them if they need my help. But if they remain active and they are happy...this is good too. I didn't mean to imply that you were pressuring your wife. I just know how it was for me when I was married. My wife was not a happy camper with my inactivity. The whole church thing was a 'sore spot' in my marriage also, as it is in your marriage but maybe for different reasons. But of course my ex-wife is TBM and maybe this is what makes our situations somewhat different.

miss taken
27th April 2005, 05:33 AM
I think that your daughters will come to their own decisions about the church. My own daughters are TBM but I never thought about your concerns. Whether the church is true or not is always up to the individual to decide. I cannot say if the church is true or not. It all depends on faith and testimony. The same will be true for your daughters. Personally, I have never tried to influence their belief system. They believe and at the moment it is working for them. And I don't see it as a bad thing. If they become inactive I will need to talk to them about their feelings and reasons and help them if they need my help. But if they remain active and they are happy...this is good too. I didn't mean to imply that you were pressuring your wife. I just know how it was for me when I was married. My wife was not a happy camper with my inactivity. The whole church thing was a 'sore spot' in my marriage also, as it is in your marriage but maybe for different reasons. But of course my ex-wife is TBM and maybe this is what makes our situations somewhat different.

When I think back. My mum and dad just about divorced because mum grabbed it (her mother had just died) and dad was more rational/less emotional, about the whole thing. One very observant ph told my mum to put her family first, even if that meant leaving the church, he felt it just wasn't worth the break up of our family.
She listened and did as he said. And it turns out she never really had a testimony of JS anyway, just of the good feelings she got when the misshies came by, and the direction it gave, comforting her when her feelings about life after death were at a high.

I heard the misshies often looked at obituaries to see who might be looking for answers. I never did that though, and havn't heard of any policy concerning the same.

Mary

Born Free
27th April 2005, 08:08 PM
When I think back. My mum and dad just about divorced because mum grabbed it (her mother had just died) and dad was more rational/less emotional, about the whole thing. One very observant ph told my mum to put her family first, even if that meant leaving the church, he felt it just wasn't worth the break up of our family.
She listened and did as he said. And it turns out she never really had a testimony of JS anyway, just of the good feelings she got when the misshies came by, and the direction it gave, comforting her when her feelings about life after death were at a high.

I heard the misshies often looked at obituaries to see who might be looking for answers. I never did that though, and havn't heard of any policy concerning the same.

Mary

Maybe there should be a cooling off clause for joining religions like there is in this country for certain financial commitments.

I am mindful of a lesbian acquaintance, who was distraught after a relationship had collapsed. She was travelling so bad, she moved back into home with her parents for a bit, and the Mo missionaries came a-knockin'. Of course in her vulnerable state she was an easy target.

She thought she had found a place of acceptance and love, until she declared her status as a practising lesbian. Of, course, that was a real show-stopper.

He mother told he she need not have told them she was a practising lesbian...... she is competent! :eek:

I pointed out to her that her sexual preference almost certainly saved her from a lot of grief.

Daryl

PS: The other irony here was that she had a history of sexual abuse at the hands of her father. She might not have handled well the unhealthy Mo culture around sexual abuse.