How do you know you are a Post Mo?

[silverfox]

What categorizes someone as a Post Mo in your opinion? What's the difference between a recovering Mo and a Post Mo? Is there a difference?

[wescape]

They seem to be almost inseparable to me. Leaving Mormonism or any cult for that matter is very traumatic on a person. I think the degree of trauma is probably directly related to the level of involvement with the cult. For example, if it was a person's whole life and passed down by generations of their family, the trauma would seem to be much more severe than say a convert considered to be a "jack-mormon." On the other hand, some devout converts might be more traumatized because they actually chose to particiapte which can be even more devastating than someone who was born into it. For my Dad who converted in his 20's, he would have to admit that he chose to believe a lie for most of his life and for many that is just too much to bear. I know for myself the fact that I didn't choose it (was born into it) probably made it easier for me to leave. I also grew up in Oregon and was one of the only Mormons in my community which was another thing that made it easier I think. I would love to hear others' experiences, both those born in the church and converts.

Wes

[silverfox]

I'm a convert....joined at age 18. As I became aware of "things" like temple endowments, polygamy, etc AFTER I joined I always had issues with much of it. But I still felt the church was the only true church so I always put my questions on the back burner and always believed leaders when I was told I wasn't praying enough, etc which is why I questioned so much.

When I found out it was all hogwash, it was devastating because I had made such personal important life decisions based on LIES. Who I married, how I raised my kids, who I chose as friends, etc, etc. I let the church make a lot of these decisions for me.

As I went through what I will call the "recovery" period I was angry, full of resentment, emotional pain, etc, etc. I worried about losing my family (hubby was TBM wannabe meaning he didn't always attend due to work schedules but was devout otherwise). I couldn't sit in church and live a lie. I didn't want my kids involved. I felt guilt for raising them in the church. (I have grown kids, married, on their own) To completely "recover" on a personal level, I knew for me I had to be open about my beliefs (or should I say disbeliefs?), I had to be ME. And I did. It was empowering because I was being who I wanted to be. It was worth the risk of losing family, etc. I shared my research about the church with anyone who listened.

For my kids, I offered what I now know and gave resources if they wanted to research. I usually only gave them info if they asked. And once we started talking about it, they asked more and more questions. I have one TBM child, grown and married. One on the border and researching which way to go. Two who want their names removed. And one who wasn't raised in it so much as the others because of my apostacy.

I feel more what I consider "post" now because the personal anger and resentment have subsided. I still get angry when I see how the church affects TBM family and friends. I still get angry when I find out about their littel tricks to get members to obey. I like to stay on top of what is going on in the Mo world only because of TBM family members.

I still wish I could get those 30+ years back. I would do much so differently. But still, I have great kids and hubby. I wouldn't call my hubby my soul mate but what we have is good and we are a much happier couple and family being out of the church.

Living in Utard, I mean Utah, the church will always be in my face. It's in the politics, the schools, the neighborhood, etc. There is no escaping it. So as long as I am here I don't see me being completely free of it. I am proud of who I am, proud of my family, etc. And I don't care what anyone thinks including my Mo friends.

I always feel, however, that my comfort zone can be shaken at any time. I always fear hubby may want to go back and there will be frustration if any of my kids go back. So I may not be completely free of it but I do feel I have control of my emotions regarding it.

[wescape]

I feel more what I consider "post" now because the personal anger and resentment have subsided. I still get angry when I see how the church affects TBM family and friends. I still get angry when I find out about their littel tricks to get members to obey. I like to stay on top of what is going on in the Mo world only because of TBM family members.

I still wish I could get those 30+ years back. I would do much so differently. But still, I have great kids and hubby. I wouldn't call my hubby my soul mate but what we have is good and we are a much happier couple and family being out of the church.

Living in Utard, I mean Utah, the church will always be in my face. It's in the politics, the schools, the neighborhood, etc. There is no escaping it. So as long as I am here I don't see me being completely free of it. I am proud of who I am, proud of my family, etc. And I don't care what anyone thinks including my Mo friends.

I always feel, however, that my comfort zone can be shaken at any time. I always fear hubby may want to go back and there will be frustration if any of my kids go back. So I may not be completely free of it but I do feel I have control of my emotions regarding it.[/QUOTE]

So it sounds like you're saying that the difference between a "recovering" and "post" Mormon has to do with the level of personal anger and resentment a person feels. Maybe it's kind of like a process where one goes through different stages. I definitely have a similar story as far as how I felt right when I found out about all the deception versus how I feel now. Back then, I couldn't even talk about Mormonism without becoming extremely upset and it consumed me much of the time. Just knowing that my entire life had been based on lies (becuase my parents met in the church) was devastating and I was a complete wreck. While that is not the case now, I believe that it would be an even greater injustice to not use my Mormon expereince for the good of others. I still feel very passionate about the subject which I believe is a good thing. The past and present injustices, deception, control, and bondage of Mormonism are egregious. My experience has given me a strong desire to fight injustice in all forms, but especially in the realm of cults. In that sense, it seems there will always be anger for anyone who came out of something like Mormonism but that anger can be used constructively.


Wes

[silverfox]

"My experience has given me a strong desire to fight injustice in all forms, but especially in the realm of cults. In that sense, it seems there will always be anger for anyone who came out of something like Mormonism but that anger can be used constructively."


YES! Very good!!!! I feel this way, too. Even if the anger completely subsides I still feel strongly that sharing our experiences is very valuable. Because we've been there and we know how much pain is involved and I'm not sure about anyone else, but that pain was completely UNEXPECTED for me. So I had a difficult time dealing with the emotions. And not being able to share those feelings and get support caused more pain. I stumbled on ex mo boards doing research on church history. I don't know how well I would have handled those emotions without that support. There is nothing worse, I believe, than feeling so very alone on an emotional level.

[peter_mary]

So it sounds like you're saying that the difference between a "recovering" and "post" Mormon has to do with the level of personal anger and resentment a person feels. Maybe it's kind of like a process where one goes through different stages. I definitely have a similar story as far as how I felt right when I found out about all the deception versus how I feel now. Back then, I couldn't even talk about Mormonism without becoming extremely upset and it consumed me much of the time.
Wes

I think it's a process, and though it's probably a fine line between "ex Mormon," "Post Mormon" "Anti-Mormon" and "recovering-Mormon", I personally think of "Post-Mormon" as having moved through Mormonism and beyond. For several years I, too, was consumed with Mormon stuff. It was all we could talk about when we got together with friends, it was the only thing I was reading about, it dominated my writing...everything. As a convert, I also felt embarassed for having fallen for the mythology, but I also viewed the overall experience of moving through and beyond the Church as one of the most growth-promoting things in my life...so I was pretty okay with it. On the other hand, my wife cried for months...

In my mind, you know you're "Post Mormon" when you really feel at peace, once and for all, with who you've become after leaving. It takes years to develop a new sense of self, to create a new value structure, to weed through what you want to keep from the old "you" and what you want to toss. It takes years to deal with the guilt, the loss, the anger, the hurt, the disillusionment. But there really does come a point when you notice one day that you went a whole day, or a whole week, without a single negative thought regarding the Church, or without a single guilty reflection, or a single flare of hostility. There comes a point when you are just at peace, and you REMEMBER what it meant to Mormon, and what the journey was like...but you've moved on.

That's when I knew I was Post-Mo...

Paul

[free thinker]

I read all your comments and they are very helpful. It has been less than a year for me since discovering the deception. This is a very difficult process. I am still quite angry, and even though I have a caring non-mo girlfriend who is great, I still struggle. I had no idea I was so enmeshed. I feel like sysiphus rolling the rock up the hill, only to watch it roll back down. Frankly it is a bit of hell. :( It does me a lot of good to read your comments, and know that this process does get better. I know I am on the right track though, because at times I get glimpses of peace that are almost overwhelming. Feelings of utter freedom! Of knowing that I am thinking and acting for myself! This is what keeps me moving forward.

I do not wish to live an embittered life. Yet the anger is pervasive, and sometimes consuming. I am a convert of thirty years. I was a TBM. My heart is broken!! God could not be the author of such an organization!!

Thanks for you help!! ;)

Free Thinker

[silverfox]

I read all your comments and they are very helpful. It has been less than a year for me since discovering the deception. This is a very difficult process. I am still quite angry, and even though I have a caring non-mo girlfriend who is great, I still struggle. I had no idea I was so enmeshed. I feel like sysiphus rolling the rock up the hill, only to watch it roll back down. Frankly it is a bit of hell. :( It does me a lot of good to read your comments, and know that this process does get better. I know I am on the right track though, because at times I get glimpses of peace that are almost overwhelming. Feelings of utter freedom! Of knowing that I am thinking and acting for myself! This is what keeps me moving forward.

I do not wish to live an embittered life. Yet the anger is pervasive, and sometimes consuming. I am a convert of thirty years. I was a TBM. My heart is broken!! God could not be the author of such an organization!!

Thanks for you help!! ;)

Free Thinker

It can take years. It took years for me. And from talking with other Post Mo's it took them years, too. I think if one knows that it is a loooong process that it helps to prepare for it. I wasn't prepared, I had no idea it would take years to finally feel PEACE. The anger will always come and go, I believe. Especially after devoting THIRTY years. Don't feel bad about the anger and bitterness, it's part of the process and does seem like it will never go away. But it will. Just keep purging it, baby, PURGE IT!!!! (you've come to the right place)

[bigeddy]

Okay, enough of this serious stuff (it is good, but I need a break). My wife and I wrote these a couple of years ago.

You know you’re a post-Mormon:

When you can sing “Welcome, welcome Sabbath morning” and really mean it.

When “the 12" refers to a dozen donuts.

When you are 10 percent richer.

When Jesus no longer wants you for a Sunbeam.

If you don’t give a shit about middle initials.

When the primary nursery refers to your favorite flower store.

When “high on the mountaintop” refers to recreational pot use while hiking.

When the “temple hat” makes you giggle.

When “fast Sunday” really goes by fast.

When Gordo’s ears make you laugh.

When you know that the only difference is that Paul Dunn got caught.

When the “primary colors” are really the primary colors.

When you really understand “the sigh” for what it is.

When you can finally have boundaries.

When you can not only say “no,” but “you’ve got to be joking.”

When the words “pay-lay-ale” crack you up.

When you can finally laugh out loud at a dirty joke.

When you finally get it that Deseret Book really only publishes four books, just with different titles and authors.

When you believe that Bruce’s middle name was "Rotten".

When you know that Brigham Young suffered from small man’s syndrome.

When you know that Santa Claus and Noah are probably the same person.

When the thought of all the animals lined up 2 by 2 really makes you laugh.

When you can admit how really boring sacrament meeting is.

When the primary president is scared shitless of your kids.

When you can enjoy a book that is deeper than the “Dick and Jane” variety.

When the “F-word” doesn’t make you wet your pants.

When your friends really know who you are, even when you’re alone.

When you really do have free agency.

When “the Bretheren” refers to your siblings.

When you can finally enjoy a party.

When you can admit that the Budweiser Clydesdales are kind of cool.

When you find yourself in a Victoria’s Secret store.

When you let yourself enjoy sex.

When you are not afraid of the coffee aisle in the grocery store.

When you really do appreciate diversity.

If you can admit how boring it is to have home teachers.

When you hate casserole.

When you realize green Jell-O is not sacred.

When “Sunday school” refers to the guy who teaches you how to fish.

When you can admit that one boy doesn’t really make a troop.

When “fast offering” refers to when you drive through the tollbooth without stopping.

When you hate paying for whats-his-name’s 12 kids.

When you miss having a sizable charitable deduction in April.

When Tom’s stories make you gag.

When your boxers creep up.

When you can learn from movies like “Good Will Hunting.”

When you want to kill people who chop good scenes out of movies.

When the coffeemaker stays out.

When only half the family will talk to you and the other half prays for you.

When you no longer fear being an “it” for all eternity.

When Joseph having sex with children is no longer okay. And you see no difference between him and Tom Green.

When you know that the golden plates really don’t lay hidden deep in the mountainside, and never did.

When you know that Helaman really didn’t have an army.

When you are signing up for coffee lessons.

When you can pronounce the words on a wine list.

When you know that God loves the little boy in Indonesia as much as a G. A.

When you know how hard it is to really whack off people’s arms.

When lying for the Lord is still lying.

When you know that BYU really is a sick place.

When getting laid does not refer to sod.

When you know what a clitoris is.

When your children no longer have to explain the sayings on T-shirts to you.

When you know that Boyd has three middle initials.

When “general authority” is a military term.

When you call the Brethern and by their first names.

When you know how to order coffee at Starbucks.

When you appreciate Democrats.

When “we thank thee 0h God for a profit” refers to your balance sheet.

When you stop teaching your children to make a little church out of their hands.

When your grandchildren ask if they can go to primary because they think it will be fun.

When your children actually like Sunday.

When you realize that a 5-year-old is too young to really “know the church is true. ”

When you realize that Orrin Porter Rockwell was really a scoundrel.

When you admire Emma.

When you know the gang signs of the Danites.

When you find out you don’t have to hearken to your husband. (And you think hearken is a stupid word)

When you no longer own a little flowered suitcase full of goofy clothes.

When your funny underwear finally hits the garbage can.

When you no longer burn little bits of cloth in a tuna fish can.

When you can admit that it is the women in “Relief Society” that really need relief.

When you really know the difference between secret and sacred.

When Jesus no longer lives in your bedroom.

When you know that secret handshakes are for children at play.

When you no longer are in the stage of magical thinking.

When you don’t care who the holy ghost really is.

When you’re not threatened by thoughts of “the adversary.”

When you get sick entering Utah Valley.

When you know that the “oppressed and downtrodden” refers to BYU professors.

When you love children for the right reasons.

If you can talk about sexuality without an opening prayer.

When you know you will positively slap the next person who says “close quote.”

When someone refers to “the church” and you ask which one that is.

When bull shit smells like bull shit.

When you realize that conference talks truly are recycled.

When you can say the word masturbation.

When “little factories” refers to small businesses.

When you know how positively stupid it would be to tie your hands to the bedpost.

When you can admit that missionaries really are 19-year-olds and you know what that means.

When you really do believe in eternal progress and growth.

When you confuse motown and motab.

When you confuse Brigham and Adolph.

When you can admit that LDS is often more dangerous than L. S. D.

When you can admit that Orrin Hatch really is a nut case.

When a thong gets comfortable.

[peter_mary]

You know you’re a post-Mormon:

When you know how positively stupid it would be to tie your hands to the bedpost.



So you're saying that when we tie each other's hands to the bedpost, we're still being Mormon? Dang, we're going to have to invent different games. How about the French Maid? Or the Chicken Suit? What about the one with the Sherpa and the yak and the tub of Cool-Whip? :o

Also, can I just admit, right here and right now, that I LOVE Funeral pototoes? L-O-V-E LOVE them! But I have never been able to choke down green Jell-O, so maybe they cancel each other out.

Loved this list! :D

Paul

[silverfox]

bigeddy - LOL LOL LOL LOL LOVE THIS! HEEEEE!!!

How do you think my TBM in laws would like this?

I admit I love the funeral potatoes, too. It's a favorite around here. (30 lashes for me) But I'm proud to say I got rid of the big containers of wheat a looooong time ago. :)

[bigeddy]

The one about the hands and bedposts was a response to (I believe it was) Mark Petersen's advise to missionaries. He advised this to make sure they would not. . . you know. . . the M word. :rolleyes: :eek:

Ed

[bigeddy]

Maybe we should rewrite that one.

You know you're a post-mormon when you tie hands to the bedpost for altogther new and exciting reasons.

[silverfox]

Maybe we should rewrite that one.

You know you're a post-mormon when you tie hands to the bedpost for altogther new and exciting reasons.

Hey, Jeff - is this good material for Peepstone?

[peter_mary]

Hey, Jeff - is this good material for Peepstone?

This is "not Jeff"--Actually, Ed asked me the same question, but after it was already posted. This kind of thing would be very useable, but we're already reading it and loving it, so no need to re-do in the Peep Stone.

Paul

[silverfox]

You know you're a post mormon if you...

Are excited to find a store open on Sunday.

You don't wear a disguise while shopping on Sunday.

You know the hours of the local liquor store.

You don't have to worry about little blue envelopes.

[peter_mary]

You know you’re a post-Mormon:



When your friends say they love you and you believe them.

Paul

[bigeddy]

[QUOTE=paul]When your friends say they love you and you believe them.

HEAR! HEAR!

[lisa]

ED;
After a long day at work listening to people mostly mormons talk about their baggage (Not the suitcase variety) It was soooooo nice to have a great laugh.
Leave it to you Ed to keep me laughing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah I like the potatoes too.

Lisa

[Jeff_Ricks]

I am only post-Gs for about 3 months, and I CAN'T WAIT for this one to happen!

THANKS for the post...I needed a hearty laugh today.

Chris


Hey Chris and other less frequent posters, it's good to see you posting once in awhile! :)

Jeff

[mindbender]

Okay, enough of this serious stuff (it is good, but I need a break). My wife and I wrote these a couple of years ago.

You know you’re a post-Mormon:

When you can sing “Welcome, welcome Sabbath morning” and really mean it.

When “the 12" refers to a dozen donuts.

When you are 10 percent richer.

When Jesus no longer wants you for a Sunbeam.

If you don’t give a shit about middle initials.

When the primary nursery refers to your favorite flower store.

When “high on the mountaintop” refers to recreational pot use while hiking.

When the “temple hat” makes you giggle.

When “fast Sunday” really goes by fast.

When Gordo’s ears make you laugh.

When you know that the only difference is that Paul Dunn got caught.

When the “primary colors” are really the primary colors.

When you really understand “the sigh” for what it is.

When you can finally have boundaries.

When you can not only say “no,” but “you’ve got to be joking.”

When the words “pay-lay-ale” crack you up.

When you can finally laugh out loud at a dirty joke.

When you finally get it that Deseret Book really only publishes four books, just with different titles and authors.

When you believe that Bruce’s middle name was "Rotten".

When you know that Brigham Young suffered from small man’s syndrome.

When you know that Santa Claus and Noah are probably the same person.

When the thought of all the animals lined up 2 by 2 really makes you laugh.

When you can admit how really boring sacrament meeting is.

When the primary president is scared shitless of your kids.

When you can enjoy a book that is deeper than the “Dick and Jane” variety.

When the “F-word” doesn’t make you wet your pants.

When your friends really know who you are, even when you’re alone.

When you really do have free agency.

When “the Bretheren” refers to your siblings.

When you can finally enjoy a party.

When you can admit that the Budweiser Clydesdales are kind of cool.

When you find yourself in a Victoria’s Secret store.

When you let yourself enjoy sex.

When you are not afraid of the coffee aisle in the grocery store.

When you really do appreciate diversity.

If you can admit how boring it is to have home teachers.

When you hate casserole.

When you realize green Jell-O is not sacred.

When “Sunday school” refers to the guy who teaches you how to fish.

When you can admit that one boy doesn’t really make a troop.

When “fast offering” refers to when you drive through the tollbooth without stopping.

When you hate paying for whats-his-name’s 12 kids.

When you miss having a sizable charitable deduction in April.

When Tom’s stories make you gag.

When your boxers creep up.

When you can learn from movies like “Good Will Hunting.”

When you want to kill people who chop good scenes out of movies.

When the coffeemaker stays out.

When only half the family will talk to you and the other half prays for you.

When you no longer fear being an “it” for all eternity.

When Joseph having sex with children is no longer okay. And you see no difference between him and Tom Green.

When you know that the golden plates really don’t lay hidden deep in the mountainside, and never did.

When you know that Helaman really didn’t have an army.

When you are signing up for coffee lessons.

When you can pronounce the words on a wine list.

When you know that God loves the little boy in Indonesia as much as a G. A.

When you know how hard it is to really whack off people’s arms.

When lying for the Lord is still lying.

When you know that BYU really is a sick place.

When getting laid does not refer to sod.

When you know what a clitoris is.

When your children no longer have to explain the sayings on T-shirts to you.

When you know that Boyd has three middle initials.

When “general authority” is a military term.

When you call the Brethern and by their first names.

When you know how to order coffee at Starbucks.

When you appreciate Democrats.

When “we thank thee 0h God for a profit” refers to your balance sheet.

When you stop teaching your children to make a little church out of their hands.

When your grandchildren ask if they can go to primary because they think it will be fun.

When your children actually like Sunday.

When you realize that a 5-year-old is too young to really “know the church is true. ”

When you realize that Orrin Porter Rockwell was really a scoundrel.

When you admire Emma.

When you know the gang signs of the Danites.

When you find out you don’t have to hearken to your husband. (And you think hearken is a stupid word)

When you no longer own a little flowered suitcase full of goofy clothes.

When your funny underwear finally hits the garbage can.

When you no longer burn little bits of cloth in a tuna fish can.

When you can admit that it is the women in “Relief Society” that really need relief.

When you really know the difference between secret and sacred.

When Jesus no longer lives in your bedroom.

When you know that secret handshakes are for children at play.

When you no longer are in the stage of magical thinking.

When you don’t care who the holy ghost really is.

When you’re not threatened by thoughts of “the adversary.”

When you get sick entering Utah Valley.

When you know that the “oppressed and downtrodden” refers to BYU professors.

When you love children for the right reasons.

If you can talk about sexuality without an opening prayer.

When you know you will positively slap the next person who says “close quote.”

When someone refers to “the church” and you ask which one that is.

When bull shit smells like bull shit.

When you realize that conference talks truly are recycled.

When you can say the word masturbation.

When “little factories” refers to small businesses.

When you know how positively stupid it would be to tie your hands to the bedpost.

When you can admit that missionaries really are 19-year-olds and you know what that means.

When you really do believe in eternal progress and growth.

When you confuse motown and motab.

When you confuse Brigham and Adolph.

When you can admit that LDS is often more dangerous than L. S. D.

When you can admit that Orrin Hatch really is a nut case.

When a thong gets comfortable.i can,t believe how long that list was , hey you made me cry with laughter , thanx

[mindbender]

So you're saying that when we tie each other's hands to the bedpost, we're still being Mormon? Dang, we're going to have to invent different games. How about the French Maid? Or the Chicken Suit? What about the one with the Sherpa and the yak and the tub of Cool-Whip? :o

Also, can I just admit, right here and right now, that I LOVE Funeral pototoes? L-O-V-E LOVE them! But I have never been able to choke down green Jell-O, so maybe they cancel each other out.

Loved this list! :D

Paulam i the only one who got told at his first temple recomend interview that we were not allowed to take off are garments for sex , and that the little whole in the womens garment was what this was for , trouble is , nowadays they don,t have that whole in them anymore .

[silverfox]

am i the only one who got told at his first temple recomend interview that we were not allowed to take off are garments for sex , and that the little whole in the womens garment was what this was for , trouble is , nowadays they don,t have that whole in them anymore .

I was told the same thing.......but it differed from bishop to bishop or stake prez to stake prez. And this was during the 70's early 80's PRIOR to two piece garmies coming out. The hole in one piece garments was also for using the bathroom. Gross. I HATED those.

Once the two piece garments came out there was no way you can keep them on during sex. So those teachings went out the window.

[formermormon]

Wow - so were you ever supposed to be naked in front of your spouse then?

Towards the end of her life, I was talking to my grandmother, and I thought she said something about how she never could imagine being totally naked with my grandfather. I figured that she must have been losing it, or maybe she meant some sort of shame issues or something, but now it sounds like maybe the church taught that you weren't supposed to? That is so profoundly sad.

[free thinker]

a post- mormon, when you realize that you dont have to go to the zoo to spank your monkey!! :eek:


Free Thinker

[miss taken]

I only just read this thread, thanks Ed gave me a good laugh, though I didn't agree with all your points!!!!

I consider myself definitely Post Mormon, I like the idea that it was and still is an important part of who I am, and I like to think that I took the best out of it, and even while I was in it probably disregarded a lot of the stuff that I thought of as ridiculous.

I had no problem parading round the Med in a pair of shorts rather than garments. Wear them in 40 degrees, lets be practical..!!

I never really took in the temple ceremony because I thought it was a little ridiculous. I think I always separated it from God, particularly the symbolic parts, even if it put the 'fear of God' into me at some level.

I think a certain amount of ambivalence is quite healthy, and why do I find the peep stone, (and another one that used to be on the net) so darn funny.

I think laughing at something puts it in perspective. The Brits did the same with Hitler during the war.

Mary

[tgio]

I'm new and I'm having a great time reading posts. This list is wonderful and so are the replies. NOTHING is better than humor. I just love it. :D

[silverfox]

I'm new and I'm having a great time reading posts. This list is wonderful and so are the replies. NOTHING is better than humor. I just love it. :D

Hope to get to know you. Welcome!