Departing Moism - Stage 10 – Engaging a new community

[Born Free]

Stage 10 incorporates moving on to a Post-Mormon life, where any or most the damage and anger have been left behind or even transmuted into fuel for other work. It might or might not involve largely losing any emotional charge around that phase of your life.

It is involves acknowledgement that we are both iindividuals and individuals within a community, and that we stand to discover and expand who we are within relationships.

DIALECTIC: We enter fully into the new paradigm and involve ourselves in the potentials that we began to see at the last stage, including the ability to see and appreciate both the inherent balance in all things, and the oppositional tension inherent in that balance.

NOTE: It cannot be stressed strongly enough that this Stages Model is not proposed as a linear sequence, that someone cannot skip specific stages, or be in several concurrently.

The whole Draft Stages Model thus far is at http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/...hp?t=288&page=2

Preceding threads posted are:
Stage 1 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=339
Stage 2 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=317
Stage 3 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=322
Stage 4 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=324
Stage 5 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=334
Stage 6 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=340
Stage 7 -
Stage 8 & 9 - http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=379

Ed and I are keen to see who would be interested to flesh out our (all our) understanding of the process of leaving.

Please answer those of these questions that fit you, by cutting and pasting them to a New Post.

How long did it take to find a community that would fit your needs for the new connectedness? Did you go through a stage of feeling very alone?

What process did you go through in finding that community?

What models did you find (either theoretical models or human models) for the higher awareness?

What new skills did you develop that enable you to be more aware of a new sense of self?

How has your definition of “honesty” and “truth” shifted from when you were TBM?

What new skills did you develop that enable you to be vulnerable in strength?

What other characteristics of this stage stand out for you?

Were there any books or movies that reminded you of your experience in this stage or informed your progression?

What big questions remain unanswered in this stage for you?

Daryl

[helemon]

How long did it take to find a community that would fit your needs for the new connectedness? Did you go through a stage of feeling very alone?
Participated in online mormon newsgroup alt.religion.mormon. This helped me discover and discuss the issues I was having with mormonism. I don't think I went through a stage of feeling very alone.

What process did you go through in finding that community?
Found it as soon as I purchased a computer that was able to access the internet.

What models did you find (either theoretical models or human models) for the higher awareness?
What higher awareness? I didn't leave the church because of an attraction towards some transcendental world view. I left because it wasn't what it claimed to be. While I did develop a greater appreciation for other religious views I don't think I would classify my change in perspective as "higher awareness."

What new skills did you develop that enable you to be more aware of a new sense of self?
Huh? Again not sure what you are talking about here. My sense of self has remained the same. I have always been a very independent and fairly rational person who does not follow the crowd and was not a member for social reasons. I think my leaving the church and graduate school has forced me to analyze my views and the views of others more. I have a greater appreciation for the validity of other points of view.

How has your definition of “honesty” and “truth” shifted from when you were TBM?
They have not. It was my definition of honesty and truth which made me realize that the story the church had told me was not honest or truthful. It is because I believe strongly in value of truth and honesty that I could not ignore these actions by an organization that expected me to be honest with my fellow man and with them that forced me to leave the church.

What new skills did you develop that enable you to be vulnerable in strength?
Huh? Again not sure what you are asking here.

What other characteristics of this stage stand out for you?
Greater appreciation for the values of diverse opinions and perspectives on life and how they enrich our lives rather than detract from it. Realization that it is the dogmatic enforcement of a single world view on others that is the source of much pain and suffering in the world.

Were there any books or movies that reminded you of your experience in this stage or informed your progression?
Nope not that I can think of.

What big questions remain unanswered in this stage for you?
Still wondering what happens after death. :rolleyes:

[Born Free]

How long did it take to find a community that would fit your needs for the new connectedness? Did you go through a stage of feeling very alone?

My answer to this is a bit complex. In retrospect I believe that I started to find a new community before I left, but it was tentative, and baulking. This was about the mid 80s so the internet was not available for either information or support.

Strangely my first identifiable sense of not being alone came from a former SDA member in the men's group I was in. I can still remember a Christmas break-up (remeber Christmas is summer here, so this was a scene from your bestest dream) on the back of a yacht on Pittwater (the next harbour north of Sydney Harbour) as we watched the sun set, and ate and had a beer together. We started to compare the emphasis and paranoias of Mormonism and Adventism, and I reallised how similar they were. I later came to appreciate how both messed with our sexuality, and gained more and more from shared conversations with that friend.

Starengely I see how alone I was more in retrospect that I did at the time.

I have mentioned above men's work. I believe that that has been an important part of my post-Mo community. Many of the men doing the best work in the men's movement (from my experience) came from religous upbringings, which they turned away from, but maintained their strong belief in the spiritual. I see good men's work as one place to discover deeper levels of honesty with self and other, and practice the skills to keep that safe and sustainable.

One of my most powerful impacts in men's work, was the joy of being with several different generations of men being real and honest with each other, and to realize the appauling mask-wearing and dishonesty that exists within Mormonism (in my experience). Hence my Haiku:

God's priesthood of men
pathetic excuses for
masculinity

and

Wall to wall fear of
healthy female energy
hidden behind masks

What process did you go through in finding that community?

I stumbled rather that walked with decisiveness. My recommendation today to anyone else making the same journey, would be to ACTIVELY engage support, but be sure to engage something that is pro-social, not a bitch-fest. We are social animals and lack of social support has been proven to increase the risk of depression. Whilst teh interenet is great, I stronlgy recommend that be complimented by some face-to-face. (I recently read Grooming, Gossip and the Evolution of Language. It provides an insight into the endorphine accelerating value of deep communication)

What models did you find (either theoretical models or human models) for the higher awareness?

The Values and World View material I came across was probably the biggest "Ah, Ha" in terms of making sense of where I was, where I had been, and with whom my future lay. More recently I have found many people saying the same thing, the most recent discovery being Ken Wilbers IntegralNaked site and the comprehensive developmental model he/they propose. http://wilber.shambhala.com/ http://www.integralnaked.org/

What new skills did you develop that enable you to be more aware of a new sense of self?

I have explored this in other threads on Post-Mo, but the biggest lay in the areas of Boundaries, Projection, Assertiveness and new language/thinking skills like "I Statements"

I believe that Moism actively screws up each of those things with the effect of keeping members confused, pliable and afraid to leave. Most good TBMs would not know a boundary if they fell across one (IMO). Religion right to the Sacrament at its core, is about projection (of our 'sins' out onto Christ). I experienced the whole "Honour and sustain your parents" as "let them stomp all over my boundaries and have no right of appeal, and wonder why you feel like I am going insane"

How has your definition of “honesty” and “truth” shifted from when you were TBM?

My morality now has more shades of grey than it did as a Mo, not that I was ever without shades of gray, as I recall. I now believe Moism promotes an extremely immature black and white thinking that is actively fuelled by fear, and lack of empathy.

What new skills did you develop that enable you to be vulnerable in strength?

I recall being challenged to be more vulnerable, and wondered what the hell the person was talking about. I perceived vulnerability as weakness, to be avoided at all costs (got testicles, haven't I?).

For me, one of the impacts of Mormonism was to feel inadequate and overly self-protective, even a stranger to myself, and therefore to others. Since leaving, my depth of connection with my own humanity has formed the basis of:

A clearer sense of my and others boundaries

The clear realisation that I have more than enough to do living my own life, without telling others how to live theirs. I am much better at asking others how they are tracking and what they are experiencing, rather than assuming I know.

I have many new skills in communicating with others when I feel their dealings at my boundaries are inappropriate and triggering discomfort in me (my discomfort - my responsibility to do something about it).

With a much clearer sense of my boundaries and new skills in speaking assertively, I feeling I can open gates and invite others in (close - now one important part of my definition of vulnerability), knowing that when I have had enough, or need time/space for myself, I can invite them to leave. I can then assertively request they leave, quietly close the gate behind them, confident the hinges aren't frozen with rust, and that the gate catch works well.

I have a much better relationship with my sexuality, moving more and more away from being held captive to it, to working with it as a great source of energy and life. That enables me to relate to men, and women much, much better that I did hisrotically.

What other characteristics of this stage stand out for you?

I increasingly find joy in the newfound sense of freedom and that the world makes more sense, paradoxically as I let go of the fantasy that I understand some parts that are unfathomerable.

I feel more relaxed and capable to roll with what life presents, confident there is no 'perfect' way to respond - my best attempt will suffice.

For me, there is a cloud to the above. I have a sense that I have wasted a big chunk of my life caught up in a perverse mindset that never fitted me from the start.

Were there any books or movies that reminded you of your experience in this stage or informed your progression?

I am sure I will think of examples later, but have only one to add at this time.

Sam Keens book Hymns to an Unknown God provides me with a vision of the way forward. Thanks to Brothers Gardiner and others here for alerting me to its existence.

OK, the brain is kicking in.

Spongs work provides me some keys to this space.

Actively uncupling spirituality from religion has been a big step in this stage. While I worked out of teh assumption that religion 'owned' spirituality, I felt there could no longer ne a place for spirituality in my life.

Now that I have discovered that many, many fine minds, have for many generations not only NOT seen spirituality as a captive of religion, but that most saw religion as crushing and even afraid of spirituality, then I am actively woeking to see where that takes me.

I find that when I share that notion with people, many gets very excited by it. It seems that in this post-modern world many people are openly or unconsciously grieving the loss of spirituality in their life.

What big questions remain unanswered in this stage for you?

I am working to heal the rift created between my spirituality and my sexuality that Morminism fostered on top of my family-of-origin. I am finding that journey interesting but capitalising on some of the hard lessons learnt along the way. The combination of those two powerful areas seems to bring out the charlotans like nothing else.

I want to expand my understanding of 'spirituality'till the day I die, and hopefully be a part of assisting others see that that is an exciting alternative to mindless/heartless consumerism, if they are open to it (no missionary zeal stuff!).

Daryl

[miss taken]

How long did it take to find a community that would fit your needs for the new connectedness? Did you go through a stage of feeling very alone?

10 years. Found connectedness on this site. Yes I did go through a stage of feeling very alone. Unless someone else has been through it, no matter from what religion (as Darly's article on Fundy religion indicates) then they just have a really hard time relating. But also felt connected to many people for many different reasons, ex mo's, family, friends, associates with shared interests - scrapbooking, education.

What process did you go through in finding that community?

Came across this community purely by chance on the internet.

What models did you find (either theoretical models or human models) for the higher awareness?

Personal experience after my father died that life was about eternal progression, and that it didn't matter what religion you had been a member of, that the most important quality was love (I am still trying to work out what that means). I suppose this was personal revelation if you want to term it that way, but it has opened me up to a wealth of new possibilities and given me a different way of looking at the world and everybody in it, that I currently believe to be more healthy.

What new skills did you develop that enable you to be more aware of a new sense of self?

The skill to not expect perfection, the skill to know that I could question, test the boundaries and not be struck by lightning, or that really bad things would happen to me because I left the church. I came to feel that the divine was more loving, forgiving, understanding, than I had envisioned in the LDS faith. I think my sense of self was always there, it was just buried under all this LDS mind baggage. (if that makes sense)

How has your definition of “honesty” and “truth” shifted from when you were TBM?

I always felt that honesty was being true to myself. When I was TBM I was being true to myself in many ways, because I believed it. Someone on the FAIR boards said that you CANT choose what you believe, I think I understand what they were getting at, though it probably does not make sense to a TBM ear. I came to a point where the weight of evidence seemed to argue against much of what I was taught in the church. I couldn't believe it any longer. I could only then be honest with myself if I admitted this and left.

I am still not sure on the truth one. That is one big philosophical area. I don't know that I see truth as an absolute any more. But I guess in my heart of hearts there is still a part of me that looks for absolute truth, that holy grail of life.

What new skills did you develop that enable you to be vulnerable in strength?

It's good to admit that you don't have all the answers, it gives you the freedom to search.

What other characteristics of this stage stand out for you?

Freedom to think for myself, and to weigh up issues from a variety of sources, not just one source, packaged, bound and wrapped up.

Were there any books or movies that reminded you of your experience in this stage or informed your progression?

Return to Tomorrow; Life after Life (Moody), What dreams may come; Elizabeth Kubler Ross The Wheel of Life; Jesus in India; Works by Geza Vermes; Works by the Early Christian Fathers; Works by Elaine Pagels;
Dead Poets Society; Van Wagoner; The World of Cults;
The Koran; ( I tried to read it after the Twin Towers)
Insiders View of Mormon Origins (more recent); Mother Teresa's autobiography; Emotional IQ; The Celestine Prophecy etc; The Art of Dreaming; A brief History of Time; The works of CS Lewis; The Northern Lights Trilogy; (okay I have bored you enough....loads more though.....)

What big questions remain unanswered in this stage for you?

Is there life after death? Where does the universe end?
Are there other dimensions? What don't we know because of our limited perceptions? Is there a God? What is he like? What is the true nature of time? Is any of this really real? (I could go on with this one too!!!!)

Daryl[/QUOTE]

[Born Free]

Over on the first post thread by Verity:

http://www.postmormon.org/forum_vb/showthread.php?t=574

freethinker made this remark, which I thought too valuable to not repost here, in this Stages context.
"Welcome to post-mo. This is a good place to be. I could never have made this journey alone. It takes a village to leave mormonism!!"
The more I ponder that, there more it stirrs me, making me reach for the Duh smiley. :duh :duh

If I review the process that Mormonism used to keep me locked in, it is quickly apparent that family and social pressures were orchestrated over time to have me believe that outside was a vacume of meaning, and famine of connectedness. Not content to keep this to this mortal existence, they claimed to have sure-knowledge of the prior and afterlife, and that I would be eternally alone or empoverished.

So, the obvious question I now see after contemplating the 'village' line, is how did I ever fail to see the importance of a network or community of support not only in my post-Mormon existence, but most particularly in the transitional phase.

It took one (Mo) village to keep me in :Puking , so why not harness the power and support of another village as I move on?

I suspect we bought their propaganda deeper than we appreciated.

Maybe Freethinkers line should be considered for the Homepage.

Daryl

[bigeddy]

How long did it take to find a community that would fit your needs for the new connectedness? Did you go through a stage of feeling very alone?

Only a bit. I had 2 brothers who were in the same general process as I and we formed a sort of community right off the bat. I felt disconnected from everyone else and this was difficult--especially the betrayal of the momos who I had given heart and soul to.

What process did you go through in finding that community?

As stated above, it was there because of my brothers all along. I did check out some internet sites and etc. This brought nothing new. The contacts we made as we expanded our circle (we started the Northern Utah Post Mormons) became a larger part of the community.

What models did you find (either theoretical models or human models) for the higher awareness?

I found important theoretical models in the writings of Ken Wilber. His integral approach contains very important models--such as models of vertical vs. horizontal growth, expanding consciousness models and spiral dynamics. These theoretical models became an important part of the journey. Human models are found (for me) in the other travelers on this path. Jeff, Daryl, Silverfox, Dogzilla, FreeThinker, Peter-mary, so, so many of you out there are now models. I wish I could have had you all as models 12 years ago.

What new skills did you develop that enable you to be more aware of a new sense of self?

Having boundaries. At the time of my greatest betrayal by the momos at BYU I got into some therapy with a non-mormon female counselor in SLC. She was quite shocked as she revealed one of her big pieces of feedback for me. She said something to the effect that my self-protective mechanism never developed. I had no concept of the type of self-protective boundaries that I could and needed to develop.

The ability to own my own emotions and let others own theirs. The lack of boundaries in sigh--en promotes much confusion over whose emotion belongs to whom. This is nuts.

The ability to seperate what I know cognitivley from what I know affectively.

How has your definition of “honesty” and “truth” shifted from when you were TBM?

Honesty is now anything truly honest regardless of what others may think. Formerly "honest' was what was expected and if the reality varied from that, it was not stated. (Another important thing is the way I now value honesty, and the way I use it to protect. Not everyone deserves my honesty and not everyone will get it--people who are not safe will not get that honesty but will get a crafted facade that is designed to protect me. In my mo days I did not know I had the right to this type boundary.)

Truth is simply a broader thing. In the mo daze truth was restricted to certain things. Now, truth is truth.

What new skills did you develop that enable you to be vulnerable in strength?

Skills like boundary drawing that protects me. This allows me to be vulnerable at times and invulnerable at times to certain people.

Another skill is the ability to value me. This is an emotional skill that allows me to avoid shame, to see myself as I truly am (not seeing myself through someone elses eyes.) As I value me, I can be vulnerable and absorb anyone's opinion of me whether it be pos. or neg.

Another skill is the ability allow difference. This is another emotional skill. This one allows me to be different without the need to address the issue "but, who is right and who is wrong." I don't have to fear revealing differentness.

Losing the polar BS is another skill. To accept the complexity and the grayness without anxiety is an important emotional skill. This allows me to be vulnerable to the ambiguities of reality.

(I still need to develop the skill of fully allowing support from others.)

What other characteristics of this stage stand out for you?

One of the biggies for me has been an internalization of growth process. As a momolad I had no clue what growth past elementary level meant. Vertical growth has become a standard.


Were there any books or movies that reminded you of your experience in this stage or informed your progression?

Sam Keen's book "Hymns to an Unknown God" was a big one. He discusses his own evolution out of a rigid religious background.

Mathew Fox's various books have also been a huge aid in comprehending the things of this stage--"The Coming of the Cosmic Christ", "Becoming a Musical Mystical Bear", etc.

Jalaja Bonheim's "Aphrodites Daughters" was huge in understanding sexual energy and balance. (eternal gratitude Lariane)

What big questions remain unanswered in this stage for you?

Will it be possible to ever let go fully of the pain? (Things about my kids and the problems they encounter because of the way we raised them in moblindness (especially the first 2), the fact that everyone I was close to for the first 40 years of my life have abandoned me, etc. ) Having joy is often confounded by these type pains.

Ed