my first post

[verity]

Greetings All,

I'm glad this forum exists...I am so pleased to see the thoughtful tone expressed here. I think I must be one of many who have chosen to walk this scary path alone rather than identify with the bitterness that seems to be so prevalent among fellow ex-mormons. I understand the bitterness; I've tasted it myself--- but I want to rise above it. I left because I HAD to, in order to keep my soul alive. That decision arose, not from my vices and my less noble side, but from the best that was in me. Like many of you, I've paid dearly for that choice--- it has overturned my life in very practical, visceral ways. The aftermath of coming clean about my belief has led me down a path that has sometimes terrified me beyond anything else I've experienced. But it has also opened doors I couldn't have dreamed of--- and slowly but surely I've seen how the woman staring back at me in the mirror has come to look more and more like the soul I feel on the inside. I've walked a scary path. But I like that woman I'm seeing in the mirror these days... she's a human being I can respect... and her face is looking more clean and whole and alive than I could have dreamed of being. I've felt like a refugee, sneaking over the wall with my stolen soul, my stolen mind, my stolen body. I landed hard... I lost my marriage, my home, and at first I thought I had even lost my son..... and as a Mormon girl, I had little hope in my being "enough", in my ability to survive on my own... and I lost my family's support...I was a refugee. I felt very alone. But I tried to do what my soul required of me, and lo and behold, that woman began to emerge in the mirror...and even though I feared I was not enough, SHE was enough....And SHE began creating a new story.

I feel like I've somehow managed to steal back the right to decide what I am and what it all means. I feel so lucky--- my quiet, frightened twelve-year-old self would never have dreamed she could be this alive and real....I do so many ordinary little things on her behalf now that I'm thirty three, silly little things like eating exotic food, and wearing clothes that celebrate my body, and telling it like it is...telling the truth..... Funny how the act of declaring that I'm human first, and female second, has made me feel more like a woman--- more like MY kind of woman...

I stayed ALIVE. I stayed ME. That's worth everything I've paid.

I'm so happy there are people trying to help each other in this way-- sure, we're all going to feel alone as we depart from a "given" path in order to walk our own. But how exciting to see that there are so many of us who've done it and are doing it... It's so exciting to hear other people describe landmarks on the path I thought I was traveling alone. It CAN be done!!! Thank you to everyone reading this---and to everyone who helped bring this forum into being----thank you for trying to live truthfully, thank you for having the courage to walk your own path... in doing that, you enable ME to be more truthful and to walk MY own path. Even if I don't know you, knowing you exist gives me courage.

[twine]

Beautiful!!! Thanks for posting and welcome. I look forward too learning from you.

[Born Free]

Verity,

You said "I stayed ALIVE. I stayed ME. That's worth everything I've paid."

Sounds like you became MORE you, in spades.

The contents of your story are harrowing, but it is a couragous jouney, and you have told the story so skillfully. I love that you can love the woman you see in the mirror, and particularly that you found more of your feminity via connecting with your humanity.

Welcome.

Daryl

[verity]

Beautiful!!! Thanks for posting and welcome. I look forward too learning from you.

I love the picture...and yes, certain words are worth the soap!!! :)

[verity]

In spades, yes. Who would have thought.... :)

[miss taken]

Hi Verity. You definitely are not alone. I love what you say about being a refugee and hitting the floor hard. My heart was with you as I was reading your words.

Mary

[why me]

Welcome to the threads. I look forward to reading more of your posts. You seem so thoughtful and poetic in your feelings. What I liked about your post was not just your story but when you wrote: "I am so pleased to see the thoughtful tone expressed here". This also is what attracted me to this forum. We seem to have a close and caring community of people here and I (for one) hope that it stays that way. I am not into the bitterness routine at all. What I have come to understand is the value of each individual story and each individualized life. I found your part in it all to be very sincere and inward looking---an inner reflective journey for peace and harmony. Welcome to the forum...I hope that I can learn more from you.... :)

[silverfox]

Greetings All,

I'm glad this forum exists...I am so pleased to see the thoughtful tone expressed here. I think I must be one of many who have chosen to walk this scary path alone rather than identify with the bitterness that seems to be so prevalent among fellow ex-mormons. I understand the bitterness; I've tasted it myself--- but I want to rise above it. I left because I HAD to, in order to keep my soul alive. That decision arose, not from my vices and my less noble side, but from the best that was in me. Like many of you, I've paid dearly for that choice--- it has overturned my life in very practical, visceral ways. The aftermath of coming clean about my belief has led me down a path that has sometimes terrified me beyond anything else I've experienced. But it has also opened doors I couldn't have dreamed of--- and slowly but surely I've seen how the woman staring back at me in the mirror has come to look more and more like the soul I feel on the inside. I've walked a scary path. But I like that woman I'm seeing in the mirror these days... she's a human being I can respect... and her face is looking more clean and whole and alive than I could have dreamed of being. I've felt like a refugee, sneaking over the wall with my stolen soul, my stolen mind, my stolen body. I landed hard... I lost my marriage, my home, and at first I thought I had even lost my son..... and as a Mormon girl, I had little hope in my being "enough", in my ability to survive on my own... and I lost my family's support...I was a refugee. I felt very alone. But I tried to do what my soul required of me, and lo and behold, that woman began to emerge in the mirror...and even though I feared I was not enough, SHE was enough....And SHE began creating a new story.

I feel like I've somehow managed to steal back the right to decide what I am and what it all means. I feel so lucky--- my quiet, frightened twelve-year-old self would never have dreamed she could be this alive and real....I do so many ordinary little things on her behalf now that I'm thirty three, silly little things like eating exotic food, and wearing clothes that celebrate my body, and telling it like it is...telling the truth..... Funny how the act of declaring that I'm human first, and female second, has made me feel more like a woman--- more like MY kind of woman...

I stayed ALIVE. I stayed ME. That's worth everything I've paid.

I'm so happy there are people trying to help each other in this way-- sure, we're all going to feel alone as we depart from a "given" path in order to walk our own. But how exciting to see that there are so many of us who've done it and are doing it... It's so exciting to hear other people describe landmarks on the path I thought I was traveling alone. It CAN be done!!! Thank you to everyone reading this---and to everyone who helped bring this forum into being----thank you for trying to live truthfully, thank you for having the courage to walk your own path... in doing that, you enable ME to be more truthful and to walk MY own path. Even if I don't know you, knowing you exist gives me courage.

Welcome! Looking forward to more of your posts. You write beautifully - that was a touching post that many of us can relate to.

[gracie]

Thank you verity, for sharing those beautiful words.

You sound like you have arrived where I am still headed! I am still looking in the mirror daily for the woman I know is inside me somewhere! She only peeks out at me occasionally :)

At least now, I can look in the mirror with a clear conscience, and answer honestly the hard questions I ask myself.

Hope to hear more of your journey; I appreciate, too, the thoughtfullness of this forum, and the honesty it requires of me.
Gracie

[peter_mary]

Verity,

You know, anyone whose been reading my posts as of late recognizes that I'm wrestling with the idea of "letting things fall apart, and not fighting to keep them together," with the recognition that often those things we have to invest so much energy into are in fact the very things that are keeping us from growing.

That's all well and good for me to say, when my struggles have all been philosophical, with the occasional threat of practical. You, on the other hand (and many others on this board) have really lived it first hand. I really look forward to hearing how it goes as you struggle to rebirth a new way of being and believing from the ashes of the old way that, from the sounds of things, nearly consumed you.

Thanks for sharing your story...please share more.

Peter_Mary

[verity]

Thanks, Gracie. You know, while I do see that vibrant woman in the mirror, I think I'll probably always still see the scared little girl, too. I guess I'm both... My life has sort of forced me to grow. Funny how you can be so grateful for an experience, yet you sure as hell wouldn't go through it twice. I think somehow the terrified little girl has to give birth to the grown woman. Ironic, isn't it? I finally DID start seeing the strong woman in the mirror, but it was a shivering blind baby who had to climb the wall.

[why me]

Thank you verity, for sharing those beautiful words.

You sound like you have arrived where I am still headed! I am still looking in the mirror daily for the woman I know is inside me somewhere! She only peeks out at me occasionally :)
Gracie

I can say the same for myself as a man. But I can see the man inside me...it is only that the mind is not allowing this man to come out...but then again...many aspects of the man does come out...only the freedom is limited to a small area of imagination. But there is still something there of the man waiting to come out...if the mind would allow it too. :Crazy:

[verity]

Peter_Mary

I think you've hit on something really true-- the structures we spend so much energy "keeping together" are often restricting us. It's terrifying to let them tumble down, and yes, the falling debris can hurt us, but what if we COULD survive--- what if freedom DIDN'T kill us? You know, I believed for so long that I was weak, and that I needed that machinery around me even to survive--- I was so afraid, it didn't even occur to me to crave freedom. But luckily for me, there came an awful point when the outer machinery began to break and the inner machinery actually threatened my life, a point where I was FORCED to break out of it. Come to find out, I could actually STAND. I thought I'd be crippled and ruined on my own. I remember taking off my temple garments for the last time-- it was a sacred rite for me, a way of saying: I accept this naked body as beautiful and sufficient. I accept myself as "enough". It was a covenant with myself, a way of saying "I am willing to stand, and face life as a vulnerable and naked creature, without hiding, and without shame."

[bigeddy]

Welcome Verity. I read your posts with chills about the grandeur of life. You do write it well. I hope that you can feel a bit at home and not so much of a refugee any longer.

I spent last night (till 1:30 AM) with a friend who needed to fall apart. We talked a lot about the value of falling apart. Ken Wilber writes that all progress, all growth is a process of disintegration followed by reintegration. Even at a cellular level growth happens by things falling apart to fall back together. What I did not have when falling apart was a support system. Since we will all need to fall apart again and again, we need the support of kind, wise people (this excludes, then, the pulpit idiots) to help us accept the need to fall apart and to help us fall back together.

The time will come when I will need to fall apart (again) and I hope that you will all be there for me.

Thank you so much for sharing your story and truly, welcome.

Ed

[why me]

Peter_Mary

I think you've hit on something really true-- the structures we spend so much energy "keeping together" are often restricting us. It's terrifying to let them tumble down, and yes, the falling debris can hurt us, but what if we COULD survive--- what if freedom DIDN'T kill us? You know, I believed for so long that I was weak, and that I needed that machinery around me even to survive--- I was so afraid, it didn't even occur to me to crave freedom. But luckily for me, there came an awful point when the outer machinery began to break and the inner machinery actually threatened my life, a point where I was FORCED to break out of it. Come to find out, I could actually STAND. I thought I'd be crippled and ruined on my own. I remember taking off my temple garments for the last time-- it was a sacred rite for me, a way of saying: I accept this naked body as beautiful and sufficient. I accept myself as "enough". It was a covenant with myself, a way of saying "I am willing to stand, and face life as a vulnerable and naked creature, without hiding, and without shame."

What you wrote reminds me of my thread 'keeping up the facade (part two) Can you identify with the quotation that I posted there? Do you feel that at times you need to put on some armor? And what does it mean to be a naked creature? Is it possible not to wear skin un ashamed and without hiding? It would be nice to be without skin so that we can all glimpse eachother's soul, as humans on a voyage of transparent discovery...

[papa]

Verity:

"Thank you to everyone reading this---and to everyone who helped bring this forum into being----thank you for trying to live truthfully, thank you for having the courage to walk your own path... in doing that, you enable ME to be more truthful and to walk MY own path. Even if I don't know you, knowing you exist gives me courage."

:)

[dancinfree]

As I read your post, which was so beautifully written, it touched me deeply for it is how I see my journey in a way. There was a moment, a distinct moment when I finally chose a new path for myself. To give up the beliefs of guilt, shame and fear was a huge risk for me. What do I do next? If I don't have the "Church" to dictate my spiritual world than where do I go for answers? I had never felt more alone and yet as I felt my way through the disorientation of a new path, my spirit felt an uncontrollable feeling of joy, of LIFE, of courage and LOVE from within. I was 34 when I took my garments off for the last time and I too, took them off as rite of passage in a way. I felt a sense of reflection not with saddness but with the assurance that I was ready to face myself completely..to see myself for all that I am and embrace the depth of truth that for me was the knowledge that I AM ENOUGH and that I AM LOVED!

I too posted yesterday for the first time and I love how enriched my soul feels . I feel I have finally found a safe place to share myself and connect with all these other beautiful souls.

I have never felt more authentic, honest and real than I do today. That doesn't mean that all my days are cheery and bright but I do know that each day I show the world that this is who I am but most importantly I'm showing myself ME. Enjoy your journey! Embracing my femininity has been my biggest journey thus far and boy, what a joy it has been. It's so great to sense that you "get" all that I express. Thank you for sharing your soul.

[free thinker]

Hello Verity.

Although I don't know you , I know one thing about you. You are very brave. Dont let anyone tell you different!!!

I want you to know that I have been, and am getting hit hard by the exit I made from mormonism. I have a client base of many mormons, and I am starting to pay a financial price. What is the value of self discovery, of living an authentic life? I dont know, but this I do know. It is usually high, and usually worth it!!

I know the fear also. I have felt fear that shook me good. I know there is more to come. :( Makes me want to weep frankly, but here we are. Can we turn back? Get back in the box? I do not think so. So here we go.

Welcome to post-mo. This is a good place to be. I could never have made this journey alone. It takes a village to leave mormonism!!

Free Thinker

[Born Free]

Freethinker

"It takes a village to leave mormonism!!"

I love it! Luuuuuuuurve it!

This won't be the last time that get used.

Daryl

[Born Free]

Verity,

The ratio of lurkers to posters on this site is high.

I am interested to hear what tripped you across the line?

Is there anything we could do to make it easier for others to join in?

Daryl

[verity]

Actually I was never really a "lurker"...not for long, anyway. I found this site about a week ago, and I've been back a few times... I liked what I saw, and I jumped in. What really did it for me was reading a thread (I can't remember which) where somebody came to start an argument... saying something like "you silly post-mormons, you can't endure difficulty because you watch too much TV". Instead of a flame war, what I saw was a group of individuals responding to this person thoughtfully, even respectfully-- inviting this person to share her own story and to engage in dialogue. I was taken aback... I was really impressed that people weren't taking the bait. I liked that, and I had always really craved the opportunity to discuss the issues surrounding leaving Mormonism. So I jumped in. I like what I'm seeing.
As for the lurker-to-poster ratio, I think that's not a bad thing....Think of what a powerful thing it is to GATHER information---There are so many reasons why the very people who would be interested in this website would keep quiet. I think there must be so many silent people suffering in that no-man's-land between "in" and "out", between yes and no. I know that during that period of my life, I was keeping VERY quiet. We all know why-- we all know how high the price of dissent can be. The fact that so many silent people are reading these exchanges tells me that there are a lot of folks who may not be ready to engage in this conversation, but who may be desperate for evidence that they're not alone.

[Born Free]

<snip>

The fact that so many silent people are reading these exchanges tells me that there are a lot of folks who may not be ready to engage in this conversation, but who may be desperate for evidence that they're not alone.
Verity,

Thank you for responding to that.

I believe there is real value in us being acutely aware of the plight of those living in that difficult space, considering whether to take the plunge.

I do everything in my power to empathize with that experience, and see what information or support might make it easier for people to act decisively.

Thanks again.

Daryl

[why me]

Actually I was never really a "lurker"...not for long, anyway. I found this site about a week ago, and I've been back a few times... I liked what I saw, and I jumped in. What really did it for me was reading a thread (I can't remember which) where somebody came to start an argument... saying something like "you silly post-mormons, you can't endure difficulty because you watch too much TV". Instead of a flame war, what I saw was a group of individuals responding to this person thoughtfully, even respectfully-- inviting this person to share her own story and to engage in dialogue. I was taken aback... I was really impressed that people weren't taking the bait. I liked that, and I had always really craved the opportunity to discuss the issues surrounding leaving Mormonism. So I jumped in. I like what I'm seeing.
As for the lurker-to-poster ratio, I think that's not a bad thing....Think of what a powerful thing it is to GATHER information---There are so many reasons why the very people who would be interested in this website would keep quiet. I think there must be so many silent people suffering in that no-man's-land between "in" and "out", between yes and no. I know that during that period of my life, I was keeping VERY quiet. We all know why-- we all know how high the price of dissent can be. The fact that so many silent people are reading these exchanges tells me that there are a lot of folks who may not be ready to engage in this conversation, but who may be desperate for evidence that they're not alone.

I think that you are correct in your description of the silent person who reads these threads. However, I must say in regards to myself that I don't post to lead people away...rather I post to commune with others who have their own hearts and souls whether they are active, inactive or postmo. I hope that when people read these posts they discover people who are searching their way through life with open-ness and honesty. Of course, we also have personal confusion in the threads but I want to believe that with each post that is posted there is something to learn and to share. And to all the lurkers I can only say that if you have found your way...I think that that is wonderful and beautiful. But I don't desire to lead anyone away because that is not my purpose...for the simple reason is that I haven't left the church myself.
But that is the value of these threads. These threads are not to lead others away but rather to bring an awarness that we are who we are...decent people on a human journey. :)

[dogzilla]

I love the picture...and yes, certain words are worth the soap!!! :)


Is THAT what's in that kid's mouth in twine's avatar?

It's been bugging me since I first saw it. :rolleyes:

[miss taken]

I read Free Thinkers, Ed's and other people who post, who have family and friends deeply entrenched in mormon culture, who are going to be hurt by a loved one leaving the church. I read of people who are putting their families, their livelihoods, their businesses at risk to finally stick up for what they do and don't believe, and I feel kind of ashamed, because for me leaving was sooooo easy. No family to hurt, no business or profession to go down the pan (I can't imagine what it is like for those who work for the church or whose main client base are church members or whose marriage and relationship with children are put at risk).

When I left my non-member colleagues wanted to know that I was doing what was right for me, and so did my family, but most of the non-member community that I was a part of both socially and professionally were actually relieved. I don't think that I have been as brave as a lot of people here. Though of course I went through all the normal...oh my goodness I am in the hands of the devil now....stuff, which was pretty traumatice in and of itself.

Credit to you all.

Mary

[aether]

I read Free Thinkers, Ed's and other people who post, who have family and friends deeply entrenched in mormon culture, who are going to be hurt by a loved one leaving the church. I read of people who are putting their families, their livelihoods, their businesses at risk to finally stick up for what they do and don't believe, and I feel kind of ashamed, because for me leaving was sooooo easy. No family to hurt, no business or profession to go down the pan (I can't imagine what it is like for those who work for the church or whose main client base are church members or whose marriage and relationship with children are put at risk).

Oh Mary I know EXACTLY how you feel. My family is all inactive (or at least not active enough to care that I'm not). Only a couple people in my ward were like, "We love you.. so come back to church because we miss you." There's one lady in the ward who spreads rumors about me, but she's always done that.. and that's about it. I moved away shortly afterward, too.

I read Verity's post and I'm completely amazed at her strength and courage. I've never had to test my beliefs like that. I find it amazing that people who have been taught to love their neighbor as themselves could be so hurtful to someone obviously so earnest and heartful. I admire you, Verity.

[Born Free]

Thanks, Gracie. You know, while I do see that vibrant woman in the mirror, I think I'll probably always still see the scared little girl, too. I guess I'm both... My life has sort of forced me to grow. Funny how you can be so grateful for an experience, yet you sure as hell wouldn't go through it twice. I think somehow the terrified little girl has to give birth to the grown woman. Ironic, isn't it? I finally DID start seeing the strong woman in the mirror, but it was a shivering blind baby who had to climb the wall.

They used to have an expression to describe the experience of going through the military Officer Cadet training system I went through:

I wouldn't have missed it for the world,
Wouldn't repeat the experience for a million dollars!

Sound familiar?

Daryl

[twine]

Is THAT what's in that kid's mouth in twine's avatar?


It's been bugging me since I first saw it. :rolleyes:

What exactly did you think was in his mouth, dogzilla? Have you never seen the movie? The rating on this one may be a little 'lite' for you, but it is simply hilarious!

Twine

[why me]

What exactly did you think was in his mouth, dogzilla? Have you never seen the movie? The rating on this one may be a little 'lite' for you, but it is simply hilarious!

Twine

Umm...you would have to understand the mind of dogzilla and why me... :Crazy: It does look a little 'strange' but like I said...it is all in the mind... :Crazy: And I haven't seen the movie.... :)